ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 2020 elections , Elizabeth Warren , Massachusetts politics , presidential candidates , racial categorization , racial isssues

Reply
Old 15th October 2018, 12:41 PM   #481
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
By the way, here's the video of Trump saying the thing that he says he didn't say.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...05214028775426

1:55, very end of the clip.

Now that we have established that Trump is thoroughly dishonest about this, can we agree that Trump has a moral obligation to fulfill his promise and donate $1 million to charity?
There's always a tweet lawsuit.

Quote:
It's best not to monkey around with Donald Trump -- or maybe that's a bad choice of words.

The billionaire real estate mogul is suing millionaire comedian Bill Maher for $5 million.

Why?

Because Maher said -- in jest, as comedians are wont to do -- that he would donate $5 million to a charity if Trump could prove he wasn't the "the spawn of his mother having sex with an orangutan."
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:42 PM   #482
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,492
I bet many here would be questioning the validity of this test if the results came back saying 0% Native American ancestry.
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:42 PM   #483
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,668
From the last two pages I'm gathering that Warren took the test and released the results, and it does show the ancestry she claimed?

I stand by my position that she shouldn't have, it's not our business. But if it shuts up the people who make up insulting nicknames for other people, it'll be a good thing.
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:43 PM   #484
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Somewhere Else
Posts: 4,520
Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
From the last two pages I'm gathering that Warren took the test and released the results, and it does show the ancestry she claimed?

I stand by my position that she shouldn't have, it's not our business. But if it shuts up the people who make up insulting nicknames for other people, it'll be a good thing.
It did, and it won't, as we can see from our conservative compatriots.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:43 PM   #485
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,492
23 and How
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:43 PM   #486
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Most of your articles were about 23 and me and other consumer tests. Is that what she took?
For all practical purposes, yep. Her expert was a consultant for those companies, and the IDENTICAL objections to those tests apply to this test.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:44 PM   #487
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Somewhere Else
Posts: 4,520
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
I bet many here would be questioning the validity of this test if the results came back saying 0% Native American ancestry.
Check in with Reed Richards on that one.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:44 PM   #488
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,133
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
I bet many here would be questioning the validity of this test if the results came back saying 0% Native American ancestry.
That didn't happen, did it?

So know you are reduced to "Not DNA ENUFF!!!" to save face.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:46 PM   #489
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,492
Warren would have been better off not releasing these results and thus maintaining plausible deniability.

This just made things worse for her.
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:48 PM   #490
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
That didn't happen, did it?

So know you are reduced to "Not DNA ENUFF!!!" to save face.
It's interesting to see the shift from "one drop" to "how many drops?"
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:48 PM   #491
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,712
Let's ask for Donny's DNA results. Chances are they will say "chromosome number = 48".
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:50 PM   #492
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by River View Post
Interesting. Does anyone know what percent of the population would have that minuscule amount? (guessing a fairly high percentage of people on earth?)
Perhaps you don't understand how genetic changes and therefore genetic markers work.

If Mary or John have a spontaneous mutation, it is passed on to their heirs. It's not spread around the planet.

So unless Native Americans and their heirs have done a lot of traveling and spreading their seed, the answer would be few to none.
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:50 PM   #493
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,668
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
I bet many here would be questioning the validity of this test if the results came back saying 0% Native American ancestry.
I would not. I know an ancestor named Vittorio Pierucci came here in the early 1900s, had two sons, one son had a son who became my father. I can trace my legal descent from him. Would a DNA test show I had much of his genes? Probably not, his Y chromosome was passed on twice along with an X chromosome from his wife and his son's wife, whose X chromosome was passed on to me along with one of my mother's. Much much more of my DNA has come from the women he and his male descendants reproduced with than from him.
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:51 PM   #494
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by River View Post
Not sure this is reliable but found this.
No wonder you get so much wrong. That guy doesn't know **** about genetic testing.
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:52 PM   #495
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Read: Here's some random contrarian **** I scoured the internet to find. Now I'd like to throw it at the wall to see if it sticks.


It fell off.
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:53 PM   #496
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,942
Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
But if it shuts up the people who make up insulting nicknames for other people, it'll be a good thing.
I admire your optimism, but it'll never happen. Birthers and Pizzagaters say that evidence against their position just proves that the conspiracy is larger than they initially claimed.

We're witnessing a similar phenomenon right here in this thread.
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:53 PM   #497
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,774
Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I stand by my position that she shouldn't have, it's not our business.
If it's not our business then it's not our concern. It can't be both ways.

This whole brouhaha is silly to the point of absurdity across the board but the revisionist history that Warren never made the claim in a context where it was supposed to matter and the Republicans are being big meanies for asking her to basically... back up what she said is growing tiresome.

Warren's claims of Native American Heritage are not some in passing statement. She made them as claims specifically in order to accomplish something, what I don't have the energy to care. She put them on college applications and she said them publicly while campaigning.

Yes of course the Republicans are going to run it into the ground, what do you expect them to do not be stupid about it?

Again... why did she bring it up? And yes she "brought it up." The Republicans didn't send thugs in to break into her office and get her diary and find a passage she wrote when she 12 about the dream she had after she read the Last Mohican for the first time and are making a big deal about it.

She made direct, explicit claims about specific Native American heritage in situations where she stood to gain from making the claim. She was asked to backup that claim. She did not for a long time. Yes the whole bloody goddamn thing was stupid and pointless, so what? Yes the whole thing was just political point scoring. That's all politics these days nobody gets to pearl clutch about this.

If it was a big enough deal for her to bring it up, it's a big enough deal for the Republicans to... be Republicans at it.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:55 PM   #498
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by beren View Post
I believe you are in error.
Has not one single Native American moved to Europe and then had a kid?
Has not one person with a Native American great-great-great something moved to Europe and had a kid?
Yes, but the chances of that person passing specific genetic markers on is so low as to be statistically insignificant.

The answer might be .0000000000000000000000000000001% +/- of the population outside of North America.
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:56 PM   #499
River
Illuminator
 
River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,962
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No wonder you get so much wrong. That guy doesn't know **** about genetic testing.
I like Wayne. I have no idea where he got those figures from because no source was linked, hence the labeling of not sure if this is reliable. All I can do on the topic is link quotes and sources, because I have no idea.

Quote:
The New York Times, reported: “The researchers found that European-Americans had genomes that were on average 98.6 percent European, .19 percent African, and .18 Native American.”

That falls within Warren’s reported range, and suggests she may be no more Native American than the average white American.
__________________
"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY

"I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY

Last edited by River; 15th October 2018 at 12:58 PM.
River is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:56 PM   #500
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Conspiracy theorist?

She put 'NATIVE AMERICAN' on her bio at Harvard based on .0039 ancestry...
Do you know if the form had a minimum requirement?
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:57 PM   #501
Slings and Arrows
Graduate Poster
 
Slings and Arrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,743
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
That didn't happen, did it?

So know you are reduced to "Not DNA ENUFF!!!" to save face.

"23andMe, a prominent DNA testing company, reported in 2014 that European-Americans had genomes that were on average 98.6 percent European, .19 percent African, and .18 Native American, according to the New York Times.

"Warren’s DNA test, even if accurate, would put her genome at somewhere between 0.1 percent and 1.56 percent Native American, meaning she could be no more Native American than the average European-American, or even less so."

-- Breitbart (Oct 15, 2018)
Slings and Arrows is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:58 PM   #502
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Boston Globe: "the Stanford University researcher who studied her DNA sample did not actually use samples of Native American DNA to determine whether Warren’s dubious claims of Cherokee ancestry were true"
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:58 PM   #503
crescent
Illuminator
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,022
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
I bet many here would be questioning the validity of this test if the results came back saying 0% Native American ancestry.
Because it is harder to prove a negative.

She has genetic markers that are generally only found in people with Native American ancestry. This does not equal absolute certainty of Native American ancestry, but coupled with family lore of such ancestry, it makes the liklihood very very high. Not 100% certain, but very likely.

Then again, dilution happens, and the knowledge of genetic markers is not absolute. A person could have native ancestry, but not have it show up in tests. That would be very unlikely, but also possible.

Also, there could be some artifacts in the image showing that the scanned image of the birth certificate has been altered. We'll never really know unless the state of Hawaii releases the original super-long form to that crazy guy in the funny smelling home who frightens the pizza delivery people. Or was that a different refuse to believe inconvenient ancestry issue?
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 12:58 PM   #504
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by River View Post
I like Wayne. I have no idea where he got those figures from because no source was linked, hence the labeling of not sure if this is reliable. All I can do on the topic is link quotes and sources, because I have no idea.


That's not how it works River. Just because you added "not sure" doesn't excuse your trying to prove a point with fake data.
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:00 PM   #505
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Because it is harder to prove a negative.

She has genetic markers that are generally only found in people with Native American ancestry. This does not equal absolute certainty of Native American ancestry, but coupled with family lore of such ancestry, it makes the liklihood very very high. Not 100% certain, but very likely.
Yes it does depending on the genetic marker that was found.
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:00 PM   #506
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,668
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If it's not our business then it's not our concern. It can't be both ways.

This whole brouhaha is silly to the point of absurdity across the board but the revisionist history that Warren never made the claim in a context where it was supposed to matter and the Republicans are being big meanies for asking her to basically... back up what she said is growing tiresome.

Warren's claims of Native American Heritage are not some in passing statement. She made them as claims specifically in order to accomplish something, what I don't have the energy to care. She put them on college applications and she said them publicly while campaigning.

Yes of course the Republicans are going to run it into the ground, what do you expect them to do not be stupid about it?

Again... why did she bring it up? And yes she "brought it up." The Republicans didn't send thugs in to break into her office and get her diary and find a passage she wrote when she 12 about the dream she had after she read the Last Mohican for the first time and are making a big deal about it.

She made direct, explicit claims about specific Native American heritage in situations where she stood to gain from making the claim. She was asked to backup that claim. She did not for a long time. Yes the whole bloody goddamn thing was stupid and pointless, so what? Yes the whole thing was just political point scoring. That's all politics these days nobody gets to pearl clutch about this.

If it was a big enough deal for her to bring it up, it's a big enough deal for the Republicans to... be Republicans at it.
I also put Native ancestry on my college applications, based on family lore. I haven't since, because I don't have any documents or even the name that might have showed up on the Dawes roll. Warren hasn't either. Republican Scott Brown brought the whole thing up while they were competing for a seat, accusing her of lying to gain advantage (with no evidence that it mattered) and demanding proof. I see he has scored his point with you.
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:01 PM   #507
River
Illuminator
 
River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,962
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


That's not how it works River. Just because you added "not sure" doesn't excuse your trying to prove a point with fake data.
I labeled it accordingly. I did not make up the stats, nor figure them in some way. If Wayne is wrong, cool. (there was no source linked on his page)

However, your insinuations are very telling. This type of silly diatribe is why democrats/leftists are losing.
__________________
"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY

"I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY
River is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:06 PM   #508
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by River View Post
I like Wayne. I have no idea where he got those figures from because no source was linked, hence the labeling of not sure if this is reliable. All I can do on the topic is link quotes and sources, because I have no idea.
You and probably a million others are misreading that data by not going to the original article and seeing who they tested:
Quote:
To improve the understanding of the relationship between genetic ancestry and self-reported ethnic and racial identity, and to characterize heterogeneity in the fine-scale genetic ancestry of groups from different parts of the US, we inferred the genetic ancestry of 5,269 self-reported African Americans, 8,663 Latinos, and 148,789 European Americans who are 23andMe customers living across the US, by using high-density SNPs genotype data from 650K to 1M arrays. 23andMe customers take an active role in participating in research by submitting saliva samples, consenting for data to be used for research, and completing surveys. We generated cohorts of self-reported European American, African American, and Latino individuals from self-reported ethnicity and identity.
IOW all those people were from the US. And they looked at their genetics by self-reported ethnicity.
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:07 PM   #509
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by River View Post
I labeled it accordingly. I did not make up the stats, nor figure them in some way. If Wayne is wrong, cool. (there was no source linked on his page)

However, your insinuations are very telling. This type of silly diatribe is why democrats/leftists are losing.
We are losing because the Republicans cheat. [/end sidetrack with my apologies]
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 15th October 2018 at 01:09 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:07 PM   #510
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,774
Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I also put Native ancestry on my college applications, based on family lore. I haven't since, because I don't have any documents or even the name that might have showed up on the Dawes roll. Warren hasn't either. Republican Scott Brown brought the whole thing up while they were competing for a seat, accusing her of lying to gain advantage (with no evidence that it mattered) and demanding proof. I see he has scored his point with you.
I don't give a tin whistle if Elizabeth Warren's DNA came back 25% velociraptor.

I just don't get the whole "How dare my political opponents expect me to back up a claim I made publicly" thing.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:08 PM   #511
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,441
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I suppose Trump will pay up that $1 million now.
Does Cain know you're making a play for his crown?
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:08 PM   #512
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,133
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post

Warren's claims of Native American Heritage are not some in passing statement. She made them as claims specifically in order to accomplish something, what I don't have the energy to care. She put them on college applications and she said them publicly while campaigning.
This is incorrect, she did not put it on any application to anything. SHe listed herself as such on a faculty listing well after she was employed.

She did not use her ancestry during campaigning. Scott Brown, her opponent brought it up as a 'character issue' and made attack ads about that, in reply she told the story her family told her.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:09 PM   #513
River
Illuminator
 
River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,962
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You and probably a million others are misreading that data by not going to the original article and seeing who they tested:IOW all those people were from the US. And they looked at their genetics by self-reported ethnicity.
Warren is from the USA. Apparently she has claimed minority status at some points in her life.

Can you define what it takes to be a minority? (feelings? certain amount of dna? what is the standard?) Would someone benefit in any way from that status at a university or job hiring process?
__________________
"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY

"I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY
River is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:14 PM   #514
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,441
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Furthermore, if a 'generation' is 25-30 years, that would put the time frame of her native ancestory somewhere around the early 1800s. While that may be outside 'living' memory, it is certainly not ancient history. I know people who have built family trees that go back that far.
In the Uk and much of Europe we consider the 1800's fairly recent. Hell, here in Blighty there are still people who claim their position based on ancestors from well before that.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:15 PM   #515
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,133
Originally Posted by River View Post
Can you define what it takes to be a minority? (feelings? certain amount of dna? what is the standard?) Would someone benefit in any way from that status at a university or job hiring process?
I have a better idea. Please explain why she has no Native American ancestry. In your own words.

You've been trying to get people on this thread to 'define minority' on this thread as a distraction over and over. Give it a rest.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:16 PM   #516
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,774
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
This is incorrect, she did not put it on any application to anything. SHe listed herself as such on a faculty listing well after she was employed.
You see that as a bigger distinction then I do.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:17 PM   #517
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,441
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah. They crossed the border that didn't exist yet to take jobs from real Native Americans and have anchor babies.
"Anchor Papooses" the devil's in the details.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:18 PM   #518
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,668
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You see that as a bigger distinction then I do.
Did it accomplish anything to make the claim after having gotten the position? Can't be something she claimed in order to help her get it, if she got it first and then made the claim. Order of operations is the distinction.
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:25 PM   #519
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 74,609
Originally Posted by River View Post
Warren is from the USA. Apparently she has claimed minority status at some points in her life.

Can you define what it takes to be a minority? (feelings? certain amount of dna? what is the standard?) Would someone benefit in any way from that status at a university or job hiring process?
You are conflating a single institution's definition with the general definition. It's going to differ with whomever is asking.

Back to the NYT's link, it was a safe bet for Warren to take the genetic test. Chances were very high there would be some Native American ancestry. Most of us have a little. And a whole lot more of us have a fair amount of African ancestry.

Looks like Warren has more than the average American.
__________________
"Somebody reboot Mike Pence, he's buffering."

Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2018, 01:26 PM   #520
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,441
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I've been seeing responses saying things like, "Oh, but she's not actually part of the tribe" and stuff like that.

And the answer is, of course not. And she never claimed to be.

But yeah, knock down that straw man.

She's going after Trump to give the million dollars. His response is .... weird. It's one thing to say, "I wasn't serious" when your bluff gets called. Or "that's not good enough." But the whole, "I didn't say that" is just mental.

I mean, who are the supporters stupid enough to buy that?

PG, take a deep breath, count to ten, re-read the hilighted, then reconsider if you really need to ask that question.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:41 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.