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Tags police incidents , police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 6th January 2019, 02:28 AM   #921
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
When in fact I've addressed this several times. Guess I have to do it again. When a racial minority murders at a rate of 10 times the racial majority, the bar of self defense will be lower than what it is in a small lily white country like Scotland. This is just another not-so-subtle "look how great things are when it's only white people!" argument
That is not an argument you have made before. Why is "the bar of self defence" lower when a racial minority murders more than the racial majority?
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Old 6th January 2019, 02:36 AM   #922
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Blacks murder less when they're surrounded by whites. You guys really need to start thinking things through.
The topic here is police behaviour, you are now trolling the thread trying to switch it to black behaviour as you clearly try and blame blacks for the US police and gun violence, whilst accusing me of being the racist.
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Old 6th January 2019, 02:44 AM   #923
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That is not an argument you have made before.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4#post12551024
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Old 6th January 2019, 02:48 AM   #924
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
There is no mention of self defence in that post. Please link to and quote you previously making the argument that "when a racial minority murders at a rate of 10 times the racial majority, the bar of self defense will be lower..."

Then please provide the links and quotes I requested here;

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4#post12554204

Then answer this "Why is "the bar of self defence" lower when a racial minority murders more than the racial majority?"
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Old 6th January 2019, 03:27 AM   #925
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The topic here is police behaviour, you are now trolling the thread trying to switch it to black behaviour as you clearly try and blame blacks for the US police and gun violence, whilst accusing me of being the racist.
It's not possible to separate the police and the population that's being police. Diverse societies like the US bring different challenges to the police force. You have made it abundantly clear you to not value diverse societies and prefer to live with whites only.
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Old 6th January 2019, 03:35 AM   #926
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
It's not possible to separate the police and the population that's being police. Diverse societies like the US bring different challenges to the police force.
You are blaming black people for a problem that is also present amongst other races and in this thread, the police.

Quote:
You have made it abundantly clear you to not value diverse societies and prefer to live with whites only.
Please link to and quote me saying that I do not value diverse societies and prefer to live with whites only. Failure to do so means you accept you are lying and you should apologise.
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Old 6th January 2019, 03:36 AM   #927
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
There is no mention of self defence in that post. Please link to and quote you previously making the argument that "when a racial minority murders at a rate of 10 times the racial majority, the bar of self defense will be lower..."

Then please provide the links and quotes I requested here;

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4#post12554204

Then answer this "Why is "the bar of self defence" lower when a racial minority murders more than the racial majority?"
Baylor, stop dodging the above and provide the links and quotes and answers I requested.
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Old 6th January 2019, 03:43 AM   #928
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
You are blaming black people for a problem that is also present amongst other races and in this thread, the police.



Please link to and quote me saying that I do not value diverse societies and prefer to live with whites only. Failure to do so means you accept you are lying and you should apologise.
The way you endlessly rant about "US gun violence" means you are the most put-off by blacks.

Last edited by Baylor; 6th January 2019 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 6th January 2019, 03:44 AM   #929
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That is not an argument you have made before.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post12552175
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Old 6th January 2019, 04:39 AM   #930
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
When in fact I've addressed this several times. Guess I have to do it again. When a racial minority murders at a rate of 10 times the racial majority, the bar of self defense will be lower than what it is in a small lily white country like Scotland. This is just another not-so-subtle "look how great things are when it's only white people!" argument
Just out of interest the murder rate in lily white Renfrewshire and Inverclyde in 2018 was 4.3/100,000. I can't find data for the numbers killed by Renfrewshire police in the same year but I can hazard a guess.
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Old 6th January 2019, 06:53 AM   #931
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
The way you endlessly rant about "US gun violence" means you are the most put-off by blacks.
Seeing gun violence as a problem, which negatively affects the black community more than the white, does not therefore mean I am "put-off by blacks". I see the black community primarily as victims of the problem. I see the police as one of the various causes of the problems.

Where I went, lived and worked in the USA, turns out I was at most risk from the white police officers.

Your inability to make a coherent claim, let alone argument is why you are the subject of ridicule.
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Old 6th January 2019, 06:59 AM   #932
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Again, why is "the bar of self defence" lower when a racial minority murders more than the racial majority?

Stop dodging my previous requests for you to provide links and quotes to the following claims you made;

"This thread is about overpolicing (mostly) blacks."

and

"Now you claim police are uninterested in policing blacks."
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Old 6th January 2019, 03:28 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The police like to claim all the credit for the reduction in knife crime, due to a massive and legally dubious stop search campaign. I have my doubts, since violent crime had been falling anyway, so at best the police were pushing against an opening door.
One thing to check is if the violence decreased in response to lead pollution decreasing.
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Old 6th January 2019, 05:22 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
One thing to check is if the violence decreased in response to lead pollution decreasing.

One problem with that is that, by coincidence, ones of the leading remaining causes of childhood exposure to lead is from old house paint, most often encountered by the poorest cohorts of the economic scale, who are inhabiting the very structures where remedial treatment has been most overlooked.

Leaving minorities at the top of that exposure list.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 6th January 2019 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 6th January 2019, 05:36 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Again, why is "the bar of self defence" lower when a racial minority murders more than the racial majority?

Stop dodging my previous requests for you to provide links and quotes to the following claims you made;
I'm not going to keep linking back to posts just because you claim to have missed them. It stalls and obfuscates the discussion and that has been the tactic for others as well. Please follow the thread of discussion and it is currently about your refusal to ever live in a black neighborhood.
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Old 6th January 2019, 05:41 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Please follow the thread of discussion and it is currently about your refusal to ever live in a black neighborhood.
The thread is about the behaviour of US police officers. It seems you need to start a new thread to discuss your peculiar obsessions.
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Old 6th January 2019, 05:44 PM   #937
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It is not possible to discuss the police without discussing the population that is being policed. I have to keep repeating myself with you people.
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Old 6th January 2019, 07:34 PM   #938
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You really don't.
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Old 7th January 2019, 02:33 AM   #939
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
It is not possible to discuss the police without discussing the population that is being policed. I have to keep repeating myself with you people.
In a thread on police behaviour a poster considers police behaviour and attitudes that he himself introduced as oht of bounds and irrelevant but random statistics not related to police behaviour key. Says a lot.
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Old 7th January 2019, 02:46 AM   #940
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
It's not applicable to use the 100,000 per resident murder rate for a small city. One murder can distort the rate significantly. One drunk white guy doesn't hit his old lady with a bowling ball and the murder rate regresses back to the mean. But on that token, the murder rate of East St Louis is 60/100,000.
With that comment, you have shown you do not understand what the rate per 100,000 means.
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Old 7th January 2019, 02:51 AM   #941
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
I'm not going to keep linking back to posts just because you claim to have missed them. It stalls and obfuscates the discussion and that has been the tactic for others as well. Please follow the thread of discussion and it is currently about your refusal to ever live in a black neighborhood.
You lie about what I say, make up claims about me being racist and dodge my points and questions. You are trolling the thread to keep it off the topic of US police behaviour.

Again, why is "the bar of self defence" lower when a racial minority murders more than the racial majority?

Stop dodging my previous requests for you to provide links and quotes to the following claims you made;

"This thread is about overpolicing (mostly) blacks."

and

"Now you claim police are uninterested in policing blacks."
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Old 7th January 2019, 03:14 AM   #942
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/u...era-study.html

"After a series of high-profile police shootings, police departments across the nation turned to body cameras, hoping they would curb abuses. But a rigorous study released Friday shows that they have almost no effect on officer behavior.
The 18-month study of more than 2,000 police officers in Washington found that officers equipped with cameras used force and prompted civilian complaints at about the same rate as those who did not have them."

The behaviour of the police is ingrained and they feel safe behaving as they do.
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:05 AM   #943
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The behaviour of the police is ingrained and they feel safe behaving as they do.

That's because, in general, they are. Despite the increasing use of body cameras by police, there hasn't been a significant increase in the censure, discipline, or prosecution of police who use excessive or unnecessary force and abuse their authority. The institutions that protect law enforcement officers need to be broken and remade with better accountability structures before any real progress will be seen.
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Old 7th January 2019, 06:08 PM   #944
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
"Now you claim police are uninterested in policing blacks."
Nice obfuscation tactic but I have no interest in playing this game. Anyone can go back and you did see that you said this
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
If anything like that level of violence happens in Scotland, it is dealt with. That is something the USA is unable to or uninterested in doing.
Just like anyone can go back and see you said it's horrible to live in a society with black people.
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
It must be horrible living in a society where literally one minor move can result in extreme force being used against you.
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:55 AM   #945
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I think that black Americans want police and the justice system to not discriminate against them and for the police to not disproportionately shoot black Americans.

Those are perfectly reasonable demands.
Yet in this very thread you posted this

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Interesting paper:
Quote:
4. Shot by Police: Race/Ethnicity Across Armed Status

It is worth noting, that on average across counties in the United States, an individual is as likely to be {black, unarmed, and shot by police} as {white, armed, and shot by police}, with a median relative risk estimate of 1.04 (PCI95: 0.62, 1.61). The corresponding ratio for hispanics is 0.52 (PCI95: 0.32, 0.75).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0141854
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Old 8th January 2019, 10:06 AM   #946
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I think that black Americans want police and the justice system to not discriminate against them and for the police to not disproportionately shoot black Americans.

Those are perfectly reasonable demands.
Yet in this very thread you posted this

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Interesting paper:
Quote:
4. Shot by Police: Race/Ethnicity Across Armed Status

It is worth noting, that on average across counties in the United States, an individual is as likely to be {black, unarmed, and shot by police} as {white, armed, and shot by police}, with a median relative risk estimate of 1.04 (PCI95: 0.62, 1.61). The corresponding ratio for hispanics is 0.52 (PCI95: 0.32, 0.75).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0141854
And your point is?

Police shoot unarmed blacks at a similar rate to armed whites.

I am sure that there are lots of police shootings that are more or less justifiable, however it's telling that unarmed blacks are as likely to be shot as armed whites. If the shootings were based on an unemotional assessment of risk, one would have to assume that armed people are generally more dangerous than unarmed people, and would assume that shootings rates of unarmed blacks would be far lower than armed whites.
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Old 8th January 2019, 10:57 AM   #947
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Maybe if more cops are shooting cops, it will lead to a reassessment of methods....

https://fox59.com/2019/01/08/lafayet...d-in-shooting/

You think maybe the guy didn't sufficiently follow the verbal commands?
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Old 8th January 2019, 11:07 AM   #948
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And your point is?

Police shoot unarmed blacks at a similar rate to armed whites.

I am sure that there are lots of police shootings that are more or less justifiable, however it's telling that unarmed blacks are as likely to be shot as armed whites. If the shootings were based on an unemotional assessment of risk, one would have to assume that armed people are generally more dangerous than unarmed people, and would assume that shootings rates of unarmed blacks would be far lower than armed whites.
That was my first thought too, but I reckon Baylor will try to characterise any response as a sign of a hidden racist agenda. Pure trolling, imo.
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Old 8th January 2019, 02:01 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Nice obfuscation tactic but I have no interest in playing this game. Anyone can go back and you did see that you said this

Just like anyone can go back and see you said it's horrible to live in a society with black people.
Which is not what I said, as anyone can see.
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Old 8th January 2019, 02:12 PM   #950
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It would appear that Baylor is learning the Trump method of ********. Just repeat lies that have nothing to do with the posts he's replying to.

Might as well argue with a headless chicken.
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Old 9th January 2019, 02:46 AM   #951
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A whole load of posts, where he tries to blame black people for the behaviour of the US police and calls others racists for blaming the police themselves for their own behaviour, have been removed from the thread.
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:26 AM   #952
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https://abc7news.com/marine-veteran-...gated/5115639/

"The Vallejo police department has launched an internal investigation. A man claims an officer used excessive force and placed him under arrest-- until the officer realized he was a veteran."

The Facebook post by Adrian Burrell is here:

https://www.facebook.com/Adrian90313...1814190296933/
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Old 7th February 2019, 01:52 AM   #953
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
https://abc7news.com/marine-veteran-...gated/5115639/

"The Vallejo police department has launched an internal investigation. A man claims an officer used excessive force and placed him under arrest-- until the officer realized he was a veteran."

The Facebook post by Adrian Burrell is here:

https://www.facebook.com/Adrian90313...1814190296933/
Seems to be excessive force and completely unnecessary. It'll go nowhere and the plaintiff isn't helping his case with hyperbolic claims of his "humanity being taken away from me".

What I don't get is the reference to his "veteran" status. Apart from the obvious, what puts a veteran above the law (notwithstanding the excessive application of it here) or affords them, seemingly, preferential treatment?
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Old 7th February 2019, 02:38 AM   #954
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I don't understand the question.
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Old 7th February 2019, 02:49 AM   #955
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Quote:
Then, a turn of events. Burrell said Officer McLaughlin let him go once he realize Burrell was a veteran.
What does his status as a 'veteran' have to do with it?
If he hadn't been a soldier at some point the cop would have carried on and arrested him?
Do 'veterans' in the US have a special status that means they don't get assaulted by the police ?
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Old 7th February 2019, 02:55 AM   #956
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These are questions you should be directing to the police officer. I'm not sure how anyone else can answer them.
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Old 7th February 2019, 03:23 AM   #957
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Denver officers disciplined for handcuffing journalist photographing arrest

Susan Greene was filming officers last July when they took her phone and put her in handcuffs

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/02/0...ng-journalist/
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Old 7th February 2019, 05:55 AM   #958
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She should have told them she was a veteran then.
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Old 7th February 2019, 06:16 AM   #959
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It might not have helped.
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Old 7th February 2019, 07:14 AM   #960
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Denver officers disciplined for handcuffing journalist photographing arrest

Susan Greene was filming officers last July when they took her phone and put her in handcuffs

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/02/0...ng-journalist/
The officers have been deducted a whole 2 days pay! That is not much of a deterrent IMO.
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