|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
1st November 2017, 02:50 AM | #241 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,706
|
|
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
|
1st November 2017, 04:08 AM | #242 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
|
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
1st November 2017, 06:00 AM | #243 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
|
It's a twofer. Could go either way.
It might be ironically pointing out that if you or someone you care about isn't personally affected by police misbehavior then you don't give a damn about it because it isn't a problem for anyone you think matters. Or it might not be ironic. Just callous and ignorant. |
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
|
1st November 2017, 05:21 PM | #245 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 13,616
|
This happened six years ago.
Quote:
My point here is, let's not make this worse than it is. I'm certain NYPD, in common with most employers, takes a dim view of employees having sex while on duty, especially if it happens in an employer-owned vehicle within public view. Several issues are getting blurred here. First, the officers in Brooklyn are defending themselves against criminal charges by contending they did not rape the woman in their custody, they had consensual sex with her. At some point, having admitted to having consensual sex with a woman in their custody -- essentially a prisoner -- and then failing to follow through with her arrest as a result, they will undoubtedly face department charges and quite likely lose their jobs. The article cited earlier noted that New York State has made it a criminal offense for a prison or jail corrections officer to have sexual contact with an inmate. That the legislature has never passed a law making it specifically illegal for a police officer to have sex with a person in their custody -- the legislators probably didn't think it was necessary for one thing -- but now such a law has already been introduced. |
2nd November 2017, 12:05 AM | #246 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,706
|
I wonder why they didn't include police officers and people under arrest or detention. Under Swedish law the comparable offence doest explicitly cover any specific profession but instead prohibits anyone from "making someone partake in or endure a sexual act by seriously abusing their position of authority".
It might not be absolutely illegal but pressuring detainees into sex would be illegal no matter your profession. |
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
|
2nd November 2017, 06:26 AM | #247 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
|
Not even that. ACCEPTING sexual favors is wrong, even if the person in authority doesn't "pressure" the other person to do it.
If a male officer arrests a woman, and she offers a blow job if he'll let her go, his response must be no. Does not matter if he suggested it or she did, the answer is NO. |
__________________
Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
|
2nd November 2017, 06:32 AM | #248 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
7th November 2017, 09:40 AM | #249 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
St. Louis is voting on the following proposition today:
Quote:
There are times I really wish we could vote:
I am all for paying the police better and getting more officers, but I also want some much needed reform to go along with that money. Hell, I'd be cool with raising the sales tax much more if it meant reforms could go along with it. |
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
8th November 2017, 08:09 AM | #250 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
|
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
8th November 2017, 10:13 AM | #251 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,613
|
Do you have any doubts about the woman's story? It sounds like the evidence that the cops raped their prisoner is overwhelming. The very fact that the cops told the victim's friends not to follow them, instead of "You can pick her up at the precinct. We'll show you the way," is compelling.
|
9th November 2017, 08:05 AM | #252 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
I've been following a local story that, in magnitude, doesn't even approach some of the worst abuses that St. Louis has had.
St. Louis Man Ticketed After Honking at Cop Stopped at a Green Light tl;dr:
Plot twist: Car A driver, Detective Steve Burle, has a history of being sued for excessive force (or being present when it happened and not intervening) and is on the Force Investigation Unit, which is responsible for investigating when police kills or injures someone. That second article agrees with my position:
Quote:
|
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
9th November 2017, 09:28 AM | #253 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15,720
|
The magnitude may not be great, but it shows even in minor instances there are police officers who behave appallingly and out and out bullies unfit for the job.
|
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
|
9th November 2017, 10:51 AM | #254 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
|
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
9th November 2017, 01:28 PM | #255 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,328
|
|
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
|
15th November 2017, 12:41 PM | #256 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
Referring back to the events following the Stockley verdict:
Federal judge restricts St. Louis police conduct during protests
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
18th November 2017, 04:35 PM | #257 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
18th November 2017, 08:32 PM | #258 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,680
|
|
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping. |
|
26th November 2017, 04:00 AM | #259 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
|
Just for a change, some Australian cops who tried to force a miscarriage of justice after beating someone up
https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/australi...e-about-554000 They are still employed and one has been promoted. |
__________________
OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
|
2nd December 2017, 09:45 AM | #260 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15,720
|
This article helps to explain why the police feel confident in shootings. They were traned that way and have legal support
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/u...ater.html?_r=1 "Training Officers to Shoot First, and He Will Answer Questions Later The shooting looked bad. But that is when the professor is at his best. A black motorist, pulled to the side of the road for a turn-signal violation, had stuffed his hand into his pocket. The white officer yelled for him to take it out. When the driver started to comply, the officer shot him dead. The driver was unarmed. Taking the stand at a public inquest, William J. Lewinski, the psychology professor, explained that the officer had no choice but to act. “In simple terms,” the district attorney in Portland, Ore., asked, “if I see the gun, I’m dead?” “In simple terms, that’s it,” Dr. Lewinski replied. When police officers shoot people under questionable circumstances, Dr. Lewinski is often there to defend their actions. Among the most influential voices on the subject, he has testified in or consulted in nearly 200 cases over the last decade or so and has helped justify countless shootings around the country. His conclusions are consistent: The officer acted appropriately, even when shooting an unarmed person. Even when shooting someone in the back. Even when witness testimony, forensic evidence or video footage contradicts the officer’s story." |
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
|
8th December 2017, 06:42 AM | #261 |
Adult human female
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 50,594
|
What about this one?
https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530 http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-p...daniel-shaver/ Warning. Graphic killing just after four minutes in. You may want to stop before that. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3269247 |
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
|
8th December 2017, 11:35 AM | #263 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
|
|
__________________
OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
|
8th December 2017, 11:45 AM | #264 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
8th December 2017, 03:33 PM | #265 |
Adult human female
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 50,594
|
The footage is from a hotel corridor. I understand the victim and his colleague were in town for a business conference. They were in the business of pest control. They took a couple of clients back to their hotel room for supper and had pizza and a drink. Maybe enough to be slightly tipsy, and why not, they weren't driving. Part of their stock-in-trade was pellet guns, I imagine for shooting rodents. They had a couple with them and took them out to show them to the clients. Someone else saw this through the window and thought that guns were being brandished. They called the cops. The victim was essentially being given a series of ever-more-impossible commands that amounted to a sadistic game of Twister. Cross your ankles behind you, raise your arms straight above your head, crawl towards me. Of course he lowered his arms because you can't crawl in that position - not even if you're sober and the victim probably wasn't. He was pleading, "Please don't shoot me." The cop shot him. As far as I can see the victim was white and respectable-looking, so it wasn't even racism. |
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
|
8th December 2017, 06:31 PM | #266 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
8th December 2017, 06:51 PM | #267 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
Cops show up, shoot your dog. And order you to behead it.
Oh, wait -- they gave him options. Warning: Autoplay. |
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
8th December 2017, 08:14 PM | #268 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,726
|
As I keep saying, skin color does not offer immunity, having some dude screaming and pointing a gun at you is nerve-wracking, and the worst indicator isn't skin color, it's mental illness.
But yeah, that's often what it's like. "Put your hands up. Do it or I'll shoot you!!! Now crawl!" Guess wrong, and you may be dead. Ask "Which one?" and you may be dead. So, now what? And again, this isn't about cops, it's about bad cops. Some cops in the US are legit heroes. The issue is, what do we do with the guys who scream contradictory commands at people while pointing guns at them? But it was okay to drive up, jump out of a car, and blast Tamir Rice, right? Seriously, this was a white male. Now, let this be a black or native Amdedrican male, and think of how this would play out then. (As for the idiot demanding that the dog's owner cut off his head - that, at least, is obvious. I wouldn't even know how to do so, an would have no tool to do it with.) |
8th December 2017, 09:54 PM | #269 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 462
|
(Null)
|
8th December 2017, 10:31 PM | #270 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
8th December 2017, 11:46 PM | #271 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
|
|
__________________
OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
|
8th December 2017, 11:51 PM | #272 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
|
|
__________________
OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
|
9th December 2017, 01:41 AM | #273 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,328
|
|
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
|
9th December 2017, 01:47 AM | #274 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,328
|
|
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
|
9th December 2017, 02:22 AM | #275 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15,720
|
The victim panics and is trying his best to cooperate even when he does briefly put his hands behind his back. That cop scum is a murderer and to not convict him empowers more murder by the police.
At the point the cop shoots, Shaver is doing exactly what he was told to do by murdering scum cop and he is crawling towards him. |
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
|
9th December 2017, 02:43 AM | #276 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
That's because you aren't a US citizen - they are so used to having guns that having one pointed at them couldn't cause any reasonable person to panic or be nervous.
Plus of course the murdered man broke the cardinal rule - he did something, and doing anything including doing nothing can put a cop in fear of his life.... |
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
9th December 2017, 03:06 AM | #277 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15,720
|
The way the cop acted must be in at least part because he was confident he would never be, or at least highly unlikely convicted of murder or other serious charge.
He also exhibited what has been posted about before, that the police are being trained to kill, everything is a threat and give a man a hammer and everything becomes a nail. What is wrong with the USA that it is ignoring the rise of killer cops? |
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
|
9th December 2017, 04:23 AM | #278 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,405
|
When I was watching the crawling dead video, I was thinking "gosh, I hope he doesn't.... oh ******" The rest of that thought was "... automatically pull his pants up" which is (I think) the exact automatic action he took, without thinking.
5 or so years ago, I had 5 police officers pointing their guns at me because it was reported I "brandished a long gun" while waiting outside my wife's doctors office. They asked to search my van, which I of course allowed. When they got to where the umbrella I "brandished" I automatically, without thought, reached for it. Fortunately, the police just shouted to stop, I did and apologized. I'm lucky the officer from the video wasn't covering me. |
__________________
- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games'] |
|
9th December 2017, 04:38 AM | #279 |
Professional Nemesis for Hire
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Home.
Posts: 11,993
|
He was wearing jogging pants with an elasticated waist, they had ridden down due to him crawling towards his executioner. In a last act to save what little dignity his executioner had left him, he attempts to pull up his trousers to save embarrassment and in case the executioner is offended or misinterprets what message his bare arse might be sending.
It didn't matter the **** shot him anyway. The **** had been waiting for a moment like this all his career. The inscription on his gun is proof of this as it was a self fulfilling prediction. What a truly ********** up society. |
9th December 2017, 04:43 AM | #280 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
Cops are trained to kill because everyone is potentially a threat. It's the price that the US pays for their gun laws, exactly the same as mass shootings, accidental shootings, and domestic violence shootings.
The fact is that none of this should have had to happen. Cops shouldn't be so scared that they have to treat suspects as armed to the teeth until they know otherwise, but because a number of suspects are armed to the teeth and are willing to use those weapons (over 10,000 a year) then a Cop has to act as if every suspect they encounter could be one of those 10,000 people or risk finding out the hard way. This means that sudden moves can wind up being fatal. If US Society wants to prevent police shootings, then they need to take gun control seriously, and they need to take getting guns out o the hands of those most likely to shot at cops. Until then it's the price of freedom. |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|