IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 13th January 2022, 10:50 AM   #41
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,059
Yeah, who wouldn't want to get into a contentious dialogue with a jerk who yells at women in the park.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 02:09 PM   #42
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26,335
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
The difference is just semantics really.
No it isn't.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 02:15 PM   #43
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
No it isn't.
Is too.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 06:10 PM   #44
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 30,914
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Yeah, who wouldn't want to get into a contentious dialogue with a jerk who yells at women in the park.
Nice strawman you built there. Let me know if you need a hand setting fire to it.

I don't shout at women.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 06:17 PM   #45
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 55,818
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I don't shout at women.
I'm pretty sure nobody here thinks patriarchy is a virtue that rehabilitates your position.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 06:21 PM   #46
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 75,023
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's from Porridge, a 1970s British sitcom.
Ah, that explains it. It never made much sense to me before. But now I see that its origin is a comedy that never made much sense to me anyway, so I guess it follows.
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 06:23 PM   #47
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 75,023
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Plenty of people leave their religion. The muslin women in every western country must be sickened when they see ordinary women able to act as they wish, while their man decides what they can wear, who they can talk to, and even what job they can do. I'm a bad person to take to parks in West Auckland in the heat of summer, because I'll go up to women and tell them they don't need to wear a burka and are only doing so because their goat-******* husband has them under his control.
Have you ever actually asked someone why they're wearing it? What was their reply?
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 10:35 PM   #48
llwyd
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 883
I'm not the biggest fan of Islam - or the Catholic Church for that matter - but I well know that a huge majority of Muslims and Catholics are decent and good people (however unfortunate their beliefs may be) and who moreover have a myriad private interpretations of their faith, and many who basically practice it pretty minimally. To conflate almost two billion people in one negative category is basically just hate speech - the same has been done for Jews, for atheists, for gays etc. etc. It's quite disgusting tbh.
llwyd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 10:53 PM   #49
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,175
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Have you ever actually asked someone why they're wearing it? What was their reply?
Dunno. Muslin is a cloth of a single fabric consistent with biblical commands, I suppose.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 12:13 AM   #50
erlando
Master Poster
 
erlando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,107
I see now where theprestige gets their disdain for atheists..
__________________
"If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved?
Evolution IS a blind watchmaker
erlando is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 12:15 AM   #51
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,706
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I'm not even going to mention the most-revolting things of all
You're not?

Quote:
- female genital mutilation and dishonour killings.


Should have known you would break your word in the very same sentence.

Quote:
I don't shout at women.
We've already established that you say one thing and do another, so why should we believe this statement?

Quote:
A pig's heart has been transplanted into a man in Baltimore...

Jews and muslins need not apply
And an antisemite too!

ethical issues around pig heart transplants
Quote:
Although Jewish law forbids Jews from raising or eating pigs, receiving a pig heart is "not in any way a violation of the Jewish dietary laws", says Dr Moshe Freedman, a senior London rabbi who sits on the UK Health Department's Moral and Ethical Advisory Group (MEAG).

"Since the primary concern in Jewish law is the preservation of human life, a Jewish patient would be obligated to accept a transplant from an animal if this offered the greatest chance of survival and the best quality of life in the future," Rabbi Freedman told the BBC.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 12:57 AM   #52
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 75,023
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
I see now where theprestige gets their disdain for atheists..
The Atheist is not the one I would choose to represent us at the Grand Cosmic Conclave, but I've come to respect him in other ways.
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 01:17 AM   #53
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 14,272
For the record: if I encounter someone who believes that I, being a woman, should be denied education and only allowed to leave the house if covered head to foot and accompanied by a male relative, I am going to take exception to both the belief and the person choosing to hold it. I don't think that makes me a bigot.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 02:12 AM   #54
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 30,914
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I don't think that makes me a bigot.
Apparently it does.

I've come to realise how dreadfully bigoted I am.

I'm also bigoted towards capital C Conservatives/MAGAfilth, antivaxers, psychics, the Chinese Communist Party and snake oil salesmen. And I'm sure that's not an exhaustive list.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 02:28 AM   #55
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 33,109
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
For the record: if I encounter someone who believes that I, being a woman, should be denied education and only allowed to leave the house if covered head to foot and accompanied by a male relative, I am going to take exception to both the belief and the person choosing to hold it. I don't think that makes me a bigot.
True, but if you extend that to include all followers of a faith even though they don't hold any of those views then you are.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 02:59 AM   #56
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 14,272
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
True, but if you extend that to include all followers of a faith even though they don't hold any of those views then you are.
As llwyd points out there are many good, decent people who are good, decent Moslems without holding the beliefs I find objectionable, which reinforces the view that such beliefs are freely chosen.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 03:45 AM   #57
Olmstead
Muse
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 786
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
As llwyd points out there are many good, decent people who are good, decent Moslems without holding the beliefs I find objectionable, which reinforces the view that such beliefs are freely chosen.
That's highly arguable (for any Abrahamic religion).

I extend Muslims the same courtesy that I extend to Christians: maybe they don't really believe any of the bad stuff their crazy book says. But it's a weird position to start at. Their book, the very basis for their beliefs, literally says those things!

I certainly wouldn't extend the same courtesy to any other movement.
Olmstead is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 03:46 AM   #58
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 33,109
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
As llwyd points out there are many good, decent people who are good, decent Moslems without holding the beliefs I find objectionable, which reinforces the view that such beliefs are freely chosen.
OTOH The Atheist seems to ascribe the most extreme views of a minority of Muslims to all Muslim.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 04:04 AM   #59
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 16,906
Sharia law usually has no problem with stem cell research or therapy.
__________________
"Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty thousand page menu, and no food."

- Robert M. Pirsig
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 05:30 AM   #60
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
I see now where theprestige gets their disdain for atheists..
I'll bite - where?
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 05:49 AM   #61
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 99,686
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
What they say is irrelevant, like idiot fundy christians, muslins believe what their imams tell them to believe. I showed you were even the Dr Mohiuddin recognises the issue, so a white bloke on the internet should be able to figure that out.





Ah, they just happen to be muslins. Just like the filth who kill their daughters for kissing a boy daddy hasn't sold her to.

Yes, just as they happen to be Christian in the Christian countries where FGM is prevalent.

The push for FGM does not come from their various religions, it predates both Islam and Christianity.

Genital mutilation is an abhorrence but if you want it to end you need to go to the cause. In regards to FGM it has been difficult to tackle because it is embedded in the culture and nearly always enforced by women in a given culture.

It's not as clear cut in regards to honour killings, but we do see these murders in diverse cultures with varied religions, for instance in cultures primarily Hindu. But I do think in regards to these murders religion can play a part.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 05:49 AM   #62
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
As llwyd points out there are many good, decent people who are good, decent Moslems without holding the beliefs I find objectionable, which reinforces the view that such beliefs are freely chosen.
Knowing that your chosen religion includes leaders and followers who support or condone the killing, maiming, and abusing of innocent people, and then deciding "I will ignore those things and just enjoy the parts I like" does not make a person good or decent. On the contrary, it makes them hypocrites who, by their own inaction, allow the abuses to continue. I find it rather difficult to have any respect for the adherents of any religion. And I have no particular problem with The Atheist's views or posts on the topic.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 05:52 AM   #63
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 99,686
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
For the record: if I encounter someone who believes that I, being a woman, should be denied education and only allowed to leave the house if covered head to foot and accompanied by a male relative, I am going to take exception to both the belief and the person choosing to hold it. I don't think that makes me a bigot.
Of course it doesn't make you a bigot. Islam can be a terrible tool often used by those seeking power to gain and then keep power - look at "the" Taliban in Afghanistan.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 06:01 AM   #64
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
OTOH The Atheist seems to ascribe the most extreme views of a minority of Muslims to all Muslim.
Minority perhaps, but a minority that numbers in many millions. All muslims continue to follow a religion whose own literature/writings/scripture is obscure enough to allow such obscene interpretations. And consider that perhaps those violent interpretations are, as its originators intended, the "correct" ones. Perhaps islam is a violent religion and those adherents who claim it to be a "religion of peace" are just hiding their heads in the sand.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 06:08 AM   #65
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 99,686
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Minority perhaps, but a minority that numbers in many millions. All muslims continue to follow a religion whose own literature/writings/scripture is obscure enough to allow such obscene interpretations. And consider that perhaps those violent interpretations are, as its originators intended, the "correct" ones. Perhaps islam is a violent religion and those adherents who claim it to be a "religion of peace" are just hiding their heads in the sand.
History does show that whatever religion a society is said to follow it can be used for evil, personally I'm of the opinion that religion is often used as a convenient fig-leaf for terrible behaviour, behaviour that should not be accepted.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 06:24 AM   #66
erlando
Master Poster
 
erlando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,107
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I'll bite - where?
Certain posts here.
__________________
"If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved?
Evolution IS a blind watchmaker
erlando is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 06:29 AM   #67
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Certain posts here.
Detailed info much appreciated. Not big on discussion, huh?
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 10:00 AM   #68
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 30,914
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Sharia law usually has no problem with stem cell research or therapy.
It has no problem with adultery either.

Unless you're the woman.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...artner-gets-15
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 10:44 AM   #69
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,059
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
For the record: if I encounter someone who believes that I, being a woman, should be denied education and only allowed to leave the house if covered head to foot and accompanied by a male relative, I am going to take exception to both the belief and the person choosing to hold it. I don't think that makes me a bigot.
Accosting such people when they are at the park with their families doesn't make you a bigot either; it just makes you rude.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 10:55 AM   #70
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 55,818
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yes, just as they happen to be Christian in the Christian countries where FGM is prevalent.

The push for FGM does not come from their various religions, it predates both Islam and Christianity.

Genital mutilation is an abhorrence but if you want it to end you need to go to the cause. In regards to FGM it has been difficult to tackle because it is embedded in the culture and nearly always enforced by women in a given culture.

It's not as clear cut in regards to honour killings, but we do see these murders in diverse cultures with varied religions, for instance in cultures primarily Hindu. But I do think in regards to these murders religion can play a part.
More and more I think religion is an effect of the human condition, not a cause of certain human behaviors. Human collectives are going to end up doing certain things, or doing other things in opposition. Religion is part of the narrative that grows up around those activities and behaviors, the Just So Story that "explains" why we're doing those things.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 10:56 AM   #71
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 55,818
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
I see now where theprestige gets their disdain for atheists..
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I'll bite - where?
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Certain posts here.
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Detailed info much appreciated. : rolleyes : Not big on discussion, huh?
Heh. It's almost enough to make one believe in self-fulfilling prophecy.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 11:00 AM   #72
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Heh. It's almost enough to make one believe in self-fulfilling prophecy.
Maybe for you. Prophecy aint worth ****.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 04:10 PM   #73
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,706
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Maybe for you. Prophecy aint worth ****.
self-fulfilling prophecy
Quote:
...is the sociopsychological phenomenon of someone "predicting" or expecting something, and this "prediction" or expectation coming true simply because the person believes or anticipates it will, and the person's resulting behaviors align to fulfill the belief.
Someone predicts that atheists attract disdain. Atheist responds by attracting disdain. Prediction comes true!
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 04:52 PM   #74
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
self-fulfilling prophecy

Someone predicts that atheists attract disdain. Atheist responds by attracting disdain. Prediction comes true!
Predicting that something that happened in the past will continue to happen in the future aint worth ****.

And it is a distain that I accept with pride.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 05:16 PM   #75
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Tiny town west of Brisbane.
Posts: 6,920
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post

I'm a bad person to take to parks in West Auckland in the heat of summer, because I'll go up to women and tell them they don't need to wear a burka and are only doing so because their goat-******* husband has them under his control.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Have you ever actually asked someone why they're wearing it? What was their reply?

I think it is easy to see this too simply. To those on the outside many make the mistake of failing to understand the difficulty women face when they have an abusive husband. "Why doesn't she just leave him?" is the plaintive cry...... It's not the easy.

The husband in a religious community may be even harder to cross. The community she lives in may be vastly different from the wider community surrounding them. The bonding within may be difficult to overcome.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 02:17 AM   #76
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 30,914
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I think it is easy to see this too simply. To those on the outside many make the mistake of failing to understand the difficulty women face when they have an abusive husband. "Why doesn't she just leave him?" is the plaintive cry...... It's not the easy.

The husband in a religious community may be even harder to cross. The community she lives in may be vastly different from the wider community surrounding them. The bonding within may be difficult to overcome.
I agree entirely; it's Stockholm Syndrome from birth.

Which is why I think someone saying there is a way out might be news to them.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 03:29 AM   #77
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 99,686
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I think it is easy to see this too simply. To those on the outside many make the mistake of failing to understand the difficulty women face when they have an abusive husband. "Why doesn't she just leave him?" is the plaintive cry...... It's not the easy.

The husband in a religious community may be even harder to cross. The community she lives in may be vastly different from the wider community surrounding them. The bonding within may be difficult to overcome.
Totally agree. We see this in all close-knit communities within a larger community. Simply saying "Oh it's the UK so a Muslim wife can choose to wear a burka or not" ignores the reality a wife may face if she chooses different to what her husband and community expects. And often the most pressure (away from violence) will be from other women in her community. It's an incredible complex issue.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 09:03 AM   #78
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21,586
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Totally agree. We see this in all close-knit communities within a larger community. Simply saying "Oh it's the UK so a Muslim wife can choose to wear a burka or not" ignores the reality a wife may face if she chooses different to what her husband and community expects. And often the most pressure (away from violence) will be from other women in her community. It's an incredible complex issue.
That seems like an incredibly simple issue. Shunning and dismissal from a community you would like to be in is not coercion.

easy peazy
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 03:52 PM   #79
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 30,914
Another philosophical point his arisen.

Should this guy have had all this effort taken to save his life? It seems he has rather a nasty, violent past: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60010155
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 04:12 PM   #80
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 25,411
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Another philosophical point his arisen.

Should this guy have had all this effort taken to save his life? It seems he has rather a nasty, violent past: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60010155
Good point. Doctors should run a morality profile first. Start by putting anyone with a criminal record at the back of the queue.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:23 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.