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View Poll Results: Is it time for Joe Biden to announce he won't run for reelection?
Yes. We need someone who WILL fight tooth and nail will all available weapons. 15 48.39%
Maybe, but let's wait awhile and see if he "cowboys up" 8 25.81%
No, I'm going down with the ship with him! 5 16.13%
Planet X Option for GQP posters who kiss Trump's ass. 3 9.68%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13th January 2022, 10:34 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well everything do hits the brick wall of "~40% of Americans have up and decided to be stupid on purpose."
Yeah, but there is a sliding scale of amount of brains that can be tolerated by the lump in the middle, and I think Warren's got too much. Also her age is against her, same as with so many of the others. I'm middle-aged myself, it's ridiculous that so many of our leaders are of my parents or even grandparents' generations.
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:35 AM   #42
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"Well everything do hits the brick wall of "~40% of Americans have up and decided to be stupid on purpose."

Joe was does your brain do that at the most inopportune times?
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:38 AM   #43
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Democrats have consistently proven they're unable to do anything but sleepwalk to the next obvious choice. That means Biden in 2024, and Harris in 2028. We might as well get used to it, the right-wing has, and is already busily smearing Harris every chance they get.

If you want to look farther forward, I've got my eye on John Fetterman, Lt. Gov of PA, who made a name for himself not putting up with any of the Qtards BS in the 2020 election. He's running for Senator this year. Seems like a promising progressive candidate that oozes charisma. Can't wait to see how he gets sidelined.
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:40 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Despite how much me and you consistently butt heads over this, I think there actually is a way to square the circle.

If you ask people "Do you support X or Y?" where X the roughly Republican position and Y the roughly Democratic way" the Y answer almost always. The majority, a strong majority in a lot of cases, like the Democratic politics.

They just don't like the Democrats. It's not politics, it's personality.
It probably doesn't help that they have bad personalities too though. Hell, I live in the liberal utopia, I like the big city and the commie-fascist policy they force on me, but the uppity attitudes of the well-to-do around here are pretty grating. People born on second base and think they hit a double talking down to their lessers is pretty obnoxious.

I think credibility is also a big issue, much like it was for the Pre-Trump Republicans. Sure, Democrats talk the talk, but people rightly perceive that the popular policies are really not that high on the priority list and won't survive the sausage grinder.

Trump was popular because he actually seemed credible (and turned out to be credible) when it came the promises that the right wing have been making but failing to deliver on for decades. It sucks because all the things that the right wing wants are morally abhorrent, but that's what they wanted and have been promised so many times. Trump finally did the thing and they love him for it.
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:41 AM   #45
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It's idealism or naivete, if you're of those people who see any difference in those two things.

The Democrats love them some "If just do everything the right way and don't do anything dirty the universe will just reward us with a win" narrative.

The Republicans have a "Well we'll just win by any means and rewrite/ignore the narrative latter because once we're in power we don't care."
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:48 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well everything does hit the brick wall of "~40% of Americans have up and decided to be stupid on purpose."

That's why everything is so risky. Nobody knows how a bunch of trolling idiots operating against their own self interest are going to react.
And this is what hangs over our heads when I try to think seriously about this crap.
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:51 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It probably doesn't help that they have bad personalities too though. Hell, I live in the liberal utopia, I like the big city and the commie-fascist policy they force on me, but the uppity attitudes of the well-to-do around here are pretty grating. People born on second base and think they hit a double talking down to their lessers is pretty obnoxious
I think the Democrats are really bad about "I don't understand. Every logical reason says they should vote for me" as if the idea most voters are operating on gut instinct is somehow a well hidden fact or something.

Basically Democrats are the "How Nice Guys Think Sex Works" of politics.
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:53 AM   #48
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There’s going to be a country to be president of in two years?
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:56 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
There’s going to be a country to be president of in two years?
Reich it or not, it'll still be around.
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Old 13th January 2022, 10:57 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Reich it or not, it'll still be around.
I love you.
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Old 13th January 2022, 11:02 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I think the Democrats are really bad about "I don't understand. Every logical reason says they should vote for me" as if the idea most voters are operating on gut instinct is somehow a well hidden fact or something.

Basically Democrats are the "How Nice Guys Think Sex Works" of politics.
I think the importance of swaying "swing" voters is vastly overstated. Democrats win when turnout is high. It's not about convincing people not to vote for the other guy, it's about convincing people that the electoral process is even worth participating in.

Again, credibility matters a lot. The Democratic party is not credible. These 4 years of Biden getting absolutely nothing done won't help that.
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Old 13th January 2022, 11:19 AM   #52
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I see this as a tactical question, I don't basically mind if they elect a house cat to the presidency if it's not a Republican cat and thus a danger to bloody liberal democracy itself. So, if it helps the anti-Republican cause that Biden would step aside, then I'm all for it, if not, not. Basically the opinion surveys will be my guides on this issue, not ideology.
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Old 13th January 2022, 06:21 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I think it's a bigger roll of the dice risk then Shemp does, but I do think Biden setting up a predecessor now isn't a bad idea.
The problem is that he already did so, a couple of years ago, and she's an even worse candidate than him.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Are we just not considering Harris?
Some are, and that's the problem; nobody should. It would just be another case of deliberately going for the worst you can find, exactly what you'd do if you had the slightest clue of what you're doing and your goal was to lose. It would be pretty much just the Democrats letting the Republicans pick the Democrats' nominee again.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
...probably a good way to trigger a slapfight of epic proportions on that side of the aisle.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The last thing the Dems need is a nasty, mud slinging primary leading into 2024
That would be an improvement. The Republiclones in control of the party aren't going anywhere that they don't get dragged, kicking screaming & bloody. The party is desperately in need of turnover, the faster the better, and I don't care whether how it's done looks more like a baton-passing or a stick-beating. It just needs to get done. (Actually, no, I might prefer the more beating-like option, because if these Republiclones pass the baton, they'll probably pass it to somebody like themselves or worse, just chronologically younger.)

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The party is totally ossified. It's a battle of the dead-eyed geezers over there.
I don't care about age, but I do care about what tends to be associated with it at the moment. The average age of Democrat politicians is older than that of Republican politicians. Think about that; in the population & culture at large, Republican ideas are more associated with old people, and younger people's ideas have nowhere to go but the DP. But it's the other way around among politicians. Democrats have been significantly more effective than Republicans at thwarting the will of their own voters and blocking out any candidates too different from themselves.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The question is whether his popularity is so poor that other ambitious dems feel it's worth risking openly challenging him in a primary run.
Some are already saying it's worth it just to put people's attention back on the differences within the party even if the challenger loses. (At least one advocate for the idea of primarying Biden says it's guaranteed to lose, and still worth it just for the purpose of getting back in the fight again instead of spending more years in a constant state of surrender.)

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Not sure I'd feel so great about a ticket made up by people who never won a large election, but I'm hard pressed to see any prominent dems that are really any better.
Everybody needs to get their minds off of "experience". The zombies who've been running the party into the ground for a generation or two have been counting on us to think that way while they make sure that nobody who's any good gets any experience, so no replacement can ever be found. The only way to thwart that is to think outside the box they want to trap us in and go for people who advocate for the right stuff whether they've ever been elected to something major or not, like Marianne Williamson. Limiting ourselves to staying right where they want us is just another way of surrendering.
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Old 13th January 2022, 06:33 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Some people want him useless, that's the point.
Isn't that the truth!

Personally, I'd vote for Stacey Abrams even if she didn't have a totally cool first name!
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Old 13th January 2022, 06:35 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
- The last thing the Dems need is a nasty, mud slinging primary leading into 2024 so no matter the behind the scenes, they have to all eat their egos enough to at least present it as a civil decision they all made.

- I'd vote for a Stacey Abrams / Pete Buttigieg ticket in a heartbeat.
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Old 13th January 2022, 06:38 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Everybody needs to get their minds off of "experience". The zombies who've been running the party into the ground for a generation or two have been counting on us to think that way while they make sure that nobody who's any good gets any experience, so no replacement can ever be found. The only way to thwart that is to think outside the box they want to trap us in and go for people who advocate for the right stuff whether they've ever been elected to something major or not, like Marianne Williamson. Limiting ourselves to staying right where they want us is just another way of surrendering.
Seriously. Joe Biden is, by time in service, one of the most experienced legislators alive today. Look where that's gotten him. Into a position any populist rube can attain. And not even able to push through legislation. Even Barack "half a senate term" Obama was able to push through Obamacare.
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Old 13th January 2022, 11:02 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I liked Elizabeth Warren last time but now I've come to believe that America is literally too stupid for her to lead. We have morons trying to get themselves killed from a preventable disease (a new one, not any of the other ones), and all that January 6 denialism is just another bubo of stupid. Warren as president would be like putting Captain Picard in charge of the Fashion Club from Daria.
Pearls before swine.

A populace that would in one moment exhibit an apparent egalitarianism by picking its first black Prez, then in the next flirt with the Fates by siding with a con man, is irrationally unstable. This knife's edge teetering between sensibility and insanity is frustrating because it need not be so. There are enough of the sane to keep the loons out of power, if only they would engage and care enough.

If it's a government of the people, by the people and for the people, then it's up to the people to get the government they want. The Constitution can evolve, if the people desire it. Gerrymandering and a ragtag patchwork of disparate State laws on election matters can be rectified, if the people desire it.

If the populace won't fight, then how the **** is some savior supposed to ride in and save the ship of state?

A people gets the government it deserves.
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Old 13th January 2022, 11:16 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think the importance of swaying "swing" voters is vastly overstated. Democrats win when turnout is high. It's not about convincing people not to vote for the other guy, it's about convincing people that the electoral process is even worth participating in.

Again, credibility matters a lot. The Democratic party is not credible. These 4 years of Biden getting absolutely nothing done won't help that.
"Absolutely nothing?" ABSOLUTELY? How quickly we forget such things as the rapid availability of vaccines, greatly reducing child poverty, and getting through the biggest infrastructure bill. In less than a year.

It does grate how the bar is set so goddamned high for the Dem guy. That's part of the reason for America's rapidly evolving, schizophrenic instability.
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Old 13th January 2022, 11:51 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
"Absolutely nothing?" ABSOLUTELY? How quickly we forget such things as the rapid availability of vaccines, greatly reducing child poverty, and getting through the biggest infrastructure bill. In less than a year.

It does grate how the bar is set so goddamned high for the Dem guy. That's part of the reason for America's rapidly evolving, schizophrenic instability.
For some people, Biden could bring world peace, personally find a cure for cancer, and end world poverty and it still wouldn't be enough.
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Old 14th January 2022, 12:03 AM   #60
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Based on the poll results, it looks like most Dems are already ready to eat their own. After just one year! Probably due to his low approval numbers, not his job performance. There have been articles about a "Dem panic" over this, and the prospects of Biden in 2024. No point in denying it now, I guess.
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Old 14th January 2022, 12:39 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
There's only one well-known Democrat who has the charisma to inspire voters, and has the ability to fight instead of rolling over and playing dead.

That Democrat is Stacy Abrams.
Bwahahahahahaha!
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Old 14th January 2022, 12:42 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Bwahahahahahaha!
Of course you'd say that... after all, she IS Black
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Old 14th January 2022, 06:45 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
We might as well get used to it, the right-wing has, and is already busily smearing Harris every chance they get.

And this right here is why Biden making such an announcement three years out would be a huge mistake, and actually anointing a new successor would be even worse. Anyone who becomes a credible front-runner for the Democratic nomination will immediately become the sole focus of All The Hate. The Republicans will have three full years to weave a Narrative of Stupid and Lies to paint that person as the Worst Candidate Ever. And we know they'll succeed at that.

Now, if you had someone willing to pretend to be that person, willing to take all that hate, and then drop out at the last minute in favor of the real candidate, sure, go for it. But since you're having trouble coming up with even one plausible candidate, how likely is it you'll find two such people, one of whom is willing to torpedo their own chances of ever being President?
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Old 14th January 2022, 07:53 AM   #64
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Or somebody could, just hypothetically, make a decision that isn't based on the need to always cower in irrational fear of the invincible Republican meanies...
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Old 14th January 2022, 08:09 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Or somebody could, just hypothetically, make a decision that isn't based on the need to always cower in irrational fear of the invincible Republican meanies...
They own the Supreme Court and they've proven they will resort to violence.

It sucks (and I mean that with 100% sincerity, I get what you are saying and have made the same appeal in the past) but just pretending they don't exist isn't a valid option.
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Old 14th January 2022, 08:10 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
We might as well get used to it, the right-wing has, and is already busily smearing Harris every chance they get.
She's a black woman. How much "smearing" do you really think they had to do to their demographic?
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Old 14th January 2022, 08:28 AM   #67
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It's always nice to wake up to the fresh smell of doom and gloom. This board is becoming one of the most ******* depressing places to come to. Wow.
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Old 14th January 2022, 08:49 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
She's a black woman. How much "smearing" do you really think they had to do to their demographic?
It's not for their demographic, it's to tarnish her image for everyone else. Fox News starts screaming about an issue, other networks have to follow suit or be left behind. How else do you think they get everyone to publish stories like this? https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/09/polit...024/index.html
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Old 14th January 2022, 10:25 AM   #69
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Well, there is no point doing it before the 2022 election. And even 2023. Whoever rises as backup, you don't want to give Trump any more time to shoot the new candidate down than you have to.
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Old 14th January 2022, 10:39 AM   #70
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People do forget that (I think) the main reason Obama was so goddamn sky rocket to the top success was that exactly zero generic, average, guy on the streets outside of his state knew who the hell he was 18 months (and that's probably being generous) out from election night.
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Old 14th January 2022, 10:42 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Well, there is no point doing it before the 2022 election. And even 2023. Whoever rises as backup, you don't want to give Trump any more time to shoot the new candidate down than you have to.
I respectfully propose that any candidate Trump can shoot down is actually shooting themselves down. Trump sniping at them from the wings is just incidental.

Trump didn't shoot down Hillary Clinton. She spent twenty years precision-engineering her own train wreck. Obama, on the other hand, came up too quickly and moved too fast for anyone to draw a bead on him. The only candidate Trump has actually shot down is Donald Trump.
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Old 14th January 2022, 11:05 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
People do forget that (I think) the main reason Obama was so goddamn sky rocket to the top success was that exactly zero generic, average, guy on the streets outside of his state knew who the hell he was 18 months (and that's probably being generous) out from election night.
No. Half of any primary's candidates are unknowns. The reason Obama was a success is that Shepard Fairey poster. He promised progress. He promised hope. He promised change - change you could believe in. His slogan was "Yes we can!," not "if the political situation is amenable, then sure, but otherwise you get what you get."
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Old 14th January 2022, 11:15 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
No. Half of any primary's candidates are unknowns. The reason Obama was a success is that Shepard Fairey poster. He promised progress. He promised hope. He promised change - change you could believe in. His slogan was "Yes we can!," not "if the political situation is amenable, then sure, but otherwise you get what you get."
Every politician ever has promised change. Nobody has ever once ran on a "Yay Status Quo" bumper sticker.
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Old 14th January 2022, 11:27 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Every politician ever has promised change. Nobody has ever once ran on a "Yay Status Quo" bumper sticker.
Clinton's 2016 slogan was "stronger together." I had to look it up in wikipedia.

Biden as well - I recall many people here saying that what we needed was someone reliable to reset the mechanisms of governance, not someone trying to make drastic changes in the other direction.

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Old 14th January 2022, 11:29 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Every politician ever has promised change. Nobody has ever once ran on a "Yay Status Quo" bumper sticker.
W's second campaign was as much of a "stay the course" campaign as any I have ever seen.
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Old 14th January 2022, 11:34 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Well, there is no point doing it before the 2022 election. And even 2023. Whoever rises as backup, you don't want to give Trump any more time to shoot the new candidate down than you have to.
I agree. It is a foregone conclusion that Biden will not run for a second term, he made it clear that he would not while he was campaigning. I also believe that he was reluctant to run even then, and actually entered the race because he was the only candidate who could have enough cross-over appeal to prevent a second trump term.

We all know he will not run again, why force the issue when we have at least a year or two to find a candidate with broad enough appeal to win 2024.

Flawed poll offers no option for waiting until a suitable candidate is available.
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Old 14th January 2022, 11:53 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It is a foregone conclusion that Biden will not run for a second term, he made it clear that he would not while he was campaigning.
Citation?
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Old 14th January 2022, 11:56 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
W's second campaign was as much of a "stay the course" campaign as any I have ever seen.
Yup, and Trump's was "Keep America Great".
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Old 14th January 2022, 12:14 PM   #79
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Has any incumbent president run on a re-election platform of "we need change"? Doesn't make much sense.
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Old 14th January 2022, 12:34 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Has any incumbent president run on a re-election platform of "we need change"? Doesn't make much sense.
"And announcing our new campaign slogan, 'Boy, I really ****** that first term up, how's about another shot?!' Thank you all for coming."
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