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Old 4th December 2007, 08:59 AM   #1
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Former Italian President says 911 inside job

Just when you think you are getting through to people. Unfortunately now truthers will point and say " Hey look he knows!"

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com...y-911-was.html

I do not know much about Italian politics. But this guy seems like a rather colorful politco

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Cossiga
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Old 4th December 2007, 09:45 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by jezcoe View Post
Just when you think you are getting through to people. Unfortunately now truthers will point and say " Hey look he knows!"

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com...y-911-was.html

I do not know much about Italian politics. But this guy seems like a rather colorful politco

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Cossiga
I asked an Italian friend about this, and his response was as follows:

Quote:
Cossiga was the Italian President, but he is known for his particular sense of humor: we all think this is his way to poke fun at CT.
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Old 4th December 2007, 09:47 AM   #3
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What is he 112 years old? I suspect he is either delusional, senile, or both. As well, he could just be a jew hater.

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Old 4th December 2007, 09:49 AM   #4
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well we will see. I am sure, regardless, the truthers will use this.

I would stake money, that even if this man comes out and admits it was simply a sarcastic mockery of the truthers, that we will see this quote appear over and over in the truther rhetoric.

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Old 4th December 2007, 10:03 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by jezcoe View Post
Just when you think you are getting through to people. Unfortunately now truthers will point and say " Hey look he knows!"

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com...y-911-was.html

I do not know much about Italian politics. But this guy seems like a rather colorful politco

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Cossiga

"George Washington" says that the "translation" was done using Babelfish. I'd refrain from drawing any conclusions (other than that the moonbats will claim that the article says what they wish it said, regardless of what it actually says, of course) until a more accurate translation is available. However, I don't even know enough Italian to be dangerous, so I can't tell.
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Old 4th December 2007, 10:12 AM   #6
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WOW! Compare the Twoofers translation in the article:

"[Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Qaeda September [attack] to the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe ... now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part ... in Iraq [and] Afghanistan. "


to the translation in the comments:

"From sources close to Palazzo Chigi, nerve center of the Italian intelligence services, it is noted that the non-authenticity of the video is proven by the fact that in it Osama Bin Laden "confesses" that Al Qaeda authored the 9/11 attacks on the two towers in New York, while all democratic elements of America and Europe, and especially the Italian center-left, are well aware that the disastrous attack was planned and executed by the American CIA and the Mossad with help from organized Zionists in order to accuse the Arab world and to induce the Western powers to intervene in both Iraq and Afghanistan"

They changed “while all democratic elements of America and Europe, and especially the Italian center-left” to “ while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe ... ”

I wonder if the Truth Movement will get to the bottom of this, and find out whether one of their members is a big liar.
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Old 4th December 2007, 10:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
I wonder if the Truth Movement will get to the bottom of this, and find out whether one of their members is a big liar.
One?

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Old 4th December 2007, 10:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
I wonder if the Truth Movement will get to the bottom of this, and find out whether one of their members is a big liar.
Never chalk up to malice what can be attributed to stupidity. George Washington, aka Alex Floum, is without a doubt one of the biggest fatheads in the Troof movement. Confronted with the obvious fact that the "general strike" called for on September 11, 2007 had been an ignominious failure, Alex suggested an alternative "five-minute general strike"; of course in the real world this is referred to as a coffee break.
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Old 4th December 2007, 12:20 PM   #9
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"Never chalk up to malice what can be attributed to stupidity. George Washington, aka Alex Floum, is without a doubt one of the biggest fatheads in the Troof movement."

I dunno, I have noted that the same garbage translation has spread throughout the Twoof movement all day.

Seems like he is mocking the "the Italian center-left" in the later translation, but I need more information on Italian politics, and given what little I do know about Italian politics, it is so complex it might be easier to find Bin Laden myself.

Last edited by The Big Dog; 4th December 2007 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 12:27 PM   #10
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Has anyone got the complete translation for this article?
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Old 4th December 2007, 12:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
"Never chalk up to malice what can be attributed to stupidity. George Washington, aka Alex Floum, is without a doubt one of the biggest fatheads in the Troof movement."

I dunno, I have noted that the same garbage translation has spread throughout the Twoof movement all day.

Seems like he is mocking the "the Italian center-left" in the later translation, but I need more information on Italian politics, and given what little I do know about Italian politics, it is so complex it might be easier to find Bin Laden myself.
Could be; after putting the paragraph in question through Babel Fish myself, the relevant portion does seem to be poorly translated:

Quote:
"From atmospheres near Chigi Palace, nevralgico center of direction of the Italian intelligence, attract attention that the authenticity of the video is not testified from the fact that Osama Bin Laden in it ' confessa' that To the Qaeda september to the two towers in New York would have been the author of the attack of the 11, while all the atmospheres democratics of America and Europe, with in front line those of the centrosinistra Italian, by now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Cia American and the Mossad with the aid of the sionista world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part are in Iraq are in Afghanistan"
However, I didn't want to miss a chance to call Alex Floum fatheaded!
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Old 4th December 2007, 12:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I asked an Italian friend about this, and his response was as follows:
Wow, ignorance is bliss, just keep repeating that to yourself my sheep like little friend.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:04 PM   #13
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hahahaha...

Let's see here. In this thread you attack;

A. The person who posted the article (that is true and was revealed to Italian media)
B. The age of the Ex President.
C. Translation
D. Try and say he was "Joking"

There is a thin line between being a skeptic, and being NARROW MINDED. Most of you so called debunkers have crossed that line.

Give it a rest already and help us try and fix this government already.

Last edited by Astute Perspicuous; 4th December 2007 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:15 PM   #14
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Zlaya & Astute

Wow, you might note that I have posted two very different translations of the article in this very thread. You post, ignoring this, and add absolutely nothing to the discussion? Yet you have the temerity to accuse US of being sheep?

You are correct, we are questioning the translation. Do you have anything worthwhile to add, or is the fact that it was posted on a Twoof website enough for you?

Baaaa.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:21 PM   #15
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So I guess this means that the truthers will finally be able to put together a huge demonstration, march down to DC and demand the truth right? This guy was president of Italy and he says not only it was an inside job, but all of the intelligence agencies know it. So this means... what? 10,000 marching on ground zero, followed by 50,000 marching on DC a few months later?
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:31 PM   #16
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EVEN IN YOUR TRANSLATION...Let me break it down for the intelligence impared.

Quote:
non-authenticity of the video is proven by the fact that in it Osama Bin Laden "confesses" that Al Qaeda authored the 9/11 attacks on the two towers in New York, while all democratic elements of America and Europe, and especially the Italian center-left, are well aware that the disastrous attack was planned and executed by the American CIA and the Mossad
non-authenticity of the video is proven by the fact that in it Osama Bin Laden "confesses" that Al Qaeda authored the 9/11 attacks on the two towers in New York....THIS MEANS HE SAYS THE LATEST VIDEO IS FAKE.

while all democratic elements of America and Europe, and especially the Italian center-left, are well aware that the disastrous attack was planned and executed by the American CIA and the Mossad...

C'mon...you can try and spin it however you want, but it says;

Quote:
well aware that the disastrous attack was planned and executed by the American CIA and the Mossad
Let the spin begin
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
hahahaha...

Let's see here. In this thread you attack;

A. The person who posted the article (that is true and was revealed to Italian media)
B. The age of the Ex President.
C. Translation
D. Try and say he was "Joking"

There is a thin line between being a skeptic, and being NARROW MINDED. Most of you so called debunkers have crossed that line.
Assuming he is of sound mind and not joking, so what? It's just the same troofer mantra we've heard over and over, and still not a shred of evidence for your imaginary global government, media, and scientific conspiracy.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
So I guess this means that the truthers will finally be able to put together a huge demonstration, march down to DC and demand the truth right? This guy was president of Italy and he says not only it was an inside job, but all of the intelligence agencies know it. So this means... what? 10,000 marching on ground zero, followed by 50,000 marching on DC a few months later?
This is where the problem is.

Everyone is so busy working, trying to pay bills, make sure their kids get fed and make it to soccer practice, it's really hard to get everyone together.

Millions are going to have their adjustable mortgage rates skyrocket. The price of gas and food and everything has risen. You have to work harder just too keep afloat.

It will happen...just when, nobody knows.

Last edited by Astute Perspicuous; 4th December 2007 at 01:41 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Assuming he is of sound mind and not joking, so what? It's just the same troofer mantra we've heard over and over, and still not a shred of evidence for your imaginary global government, media, and scientific conspiracy.
Since when did it become OUR job to provide "evidence"?

All we are trying to say is that the "official" story is a complete hoax and a "real" investigation is needed.

That is the purpose of a "real" investigation and not the whitewash that was carried out before.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:40 PM   #20
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It actually does not matter, at all, what the Italian President thinks if he cannot prove it.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:44 PM   #21
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Astute:

Well we agree on one thing! The first translation is garbage.

Let us focus on the second, then, shall we? It is what skeptics do.

Putting aside everything else, you'll note the phrase "all democratic elements of America and Europe, and especially the Italian center-left."

All democratic elements? What do you think that means?

More importantly, "especially the Italian center-left." That is curious, don't you agree? Why is he talking about "del centrosinistra italiano"?

At you will note that the original article is called "Osama-Berlusconi." What are your thoughts?

Do you care to see a full translation?
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Tokorona View Post
It actually does not matter, at all, what the Italian President thinks if he cannot prove it.
Once again...you are putting the burdon of proof on a person, rather than the COURTS.

That's what a real investigation is for...You have no idea if he can "prove" it or not.

There were many many people lost from "other" countries. I am sure there will be an outside investigation to find out how their people were murdered.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Since when did it become OUR job to provide "evidence"?

All we are trying to say is that the "official" story is a complete hoax and a "real" investigation is needed.

That is the purpose of a "real" investigation and not the whitewash that was carried out before.
stundie material!
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:49 PM   #24
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Perhaps Henry62 can assist with an accurate translation.

(ETA: Actually, now that I think of it, his site is in Italian but he has it translated into English by someone else, I believe.)

Last edited by LashL; 4th December 2007 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:52 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Astute:

Well we agree on one thing! The first translation is garbage.

Let us focus on the second, then, shall we? It is what skeptics do.

Putting aside everything else, you'll note the phrase "all democratic elements of America and Europe, and especially the Italian center-left."

All democratic elements? What do you think that means?

More importantly, "especially the Italian center-left." That is curious, don't you agree? Why is he talking about "del centrosinistra italiano"?

At you will note that the original article is called "Osama-Berlusconi." What are your thoughts?

Do you care to see a full translation?

Yes...I do agree 100% that many in the truth movement glorify certain things to make a statement...but....nonetheless that does not mean that the message is wrong.

All democratic elements? I would have to say he means both the left and right.

"especially the Italian center-left." I am not familiar enough with Italian politics.
Do you care to see a full translation? Yes
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:57 PM   #26
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All I know about Italian politics is Cicciolina was a member of their Parliament.



So "yay Italy."
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by tomwaits View Post
stundie material!
There is my point EXACTLY. You try and get us to form an opinion. When we refuse to form a "theory" you call people stundi material.

You will not get me to promote a theory...capeesh?!?

It's OUR job to prove there is REASONABLE SPECULATION that a crime has happened.

Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.

So...Yes, I would have to say that YOU are perfect STUNDIE MATERIAL.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Once again...you are putting the burdon of proof on a person, rather than the COURTS.

That's what a real investigation is for...You have no idea if he can "prove" it or not.

There were many many people lost from "other" countries. I am sure there will be an outside investigation to find out how their people were murdered.
He's right. This is stundie material. If you make a claim, you must back it up with evidence. It's a basic precept.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:02 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
There is my point EXACTLY. You try and get us to form an opinion. When we refuse to form a "theory" you call people stundi material.

You will not get me to promote a theory...capeesh?!?

It's OUR job to prove there is REASONABLE SPECULATION that a crime has happened.

Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.

So...Yes, I would have to say that YOU are perfect STUNDIE MATERIAL.
Fine. But the speculation must also be backedup by valid evidence.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:04 PM   #30
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Quote:
So...Yes, I would have to say that YOU are perfect STUNDIE MATERIAL.

YEAH? WELL YOU ARE A BIG DOO DOO HEAD!

Last edited by tomwaits; 4th December 2007 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:05 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Tokorona View Post
He's right. This is stundie material. If you make a claim, you must back it up with evidence. It's a basic precept.
Stundie all you want...I have NOT promoted ANY THEORY. It is a fact that many people from other countries were killed on 911.

Love how when you are on the ropes, you yell stundie. Your stundies matter not to me at all.

Fact is...it is NOT our job to "prove" anything. Let me requote it again for you to make it clear.

Quote:
Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:06 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by tomwaits View Post
YEAH? WELL YOU ARE A BIG DOO DOO HEAD!
I love you too.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.
So how's that working out for your team? What authorities have you called and what was their response?
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:08 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Tokorona View Post
Fine. But the speculation must also be backedup by valid evidence.
Yup, we're skeptics. If we were gummit shills or close-minded sheep like you guys like to pretend we are then Astute would be onto something. Instead, we go where the VERIFIABLE evidence takes us.

A thousand pounds of speculation equals exactly one turd around here without something to back it up.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Stundie all you want...I have NOT promoted ANY THEORY. It is a fact that many people from other countries were killed on 911.

Love how when you are on the ropes, you yell stundie. Your stundies matter not to me at all.

Fact is...it is NOT our job to "prove" anything. Let me requote it again for you to make it clear.
So I can call your local authorities and say you molest children and they won't ask me for proof?
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:09 PM   #36
tomwaits
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Originally Posted by Astute Perspicuous View Post
Stundie all you want...I have NOT promoted ANY THEORY.
here it is, within this thread:
Quote:
All we are trying to say is that the "official" story is a complete hoax

This is what I call a theory. To convince us of this, you will need some evidence. Just calling it "fact" is not going to cut it. Don't like it? Too bad. We're skeptics. It's what we do.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:14 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
So I can call your local authorities and say you molest children and they won't ask me for proof?
Nope...they will ask you "WHY" you would think such a thing. They would ask you for your "speculation" as to "why" you think such a thing is happening.

It is up to them to "prove" it.

Nice subtle try at degradation.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:16 PM   #38
Astute Perspicuous
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Originally Posted by tomwaits View Post
here it is, within this thread:



This is what I call a theory. To convince us of this, you will need some evidence. Just calling it "fact" is not going to cut it. Don't like it? Too bad. We're skeptics. It's what we do.
Yes...the KEYWORD is "I". This is what "YOU" call a theory. What science calls a theory is 2 different things.

In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation.

or dictionary def

a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of ...
hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was ...
a belief that can guide behavior; "the architect has a theory that more is less"; "they killed him on the theory that dead men tell no tales"
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:20 PM   #39
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Actually, your neighbor analogy isn't cutting it.

What you have is a case where they'vew already investigated your missing mail. They found some guys that had bits of it and confessed to the crime.

You're saying they are wrong, that they planted the evidence, and that a new investigation needs to be done.

Changes the scene a bit, doesn't it? Here's a clue for you, the courts won't allow you to re-try someone for the same crime, so if you're talking about courts then you're way off base. The police already marked the case as "closed", and they won't re-open it unless there's new evidence that calls that resolution into question.

So sorry, you're still at the point of needing evidence. Pretending you're just asking for an investigation is dishonest and ridiculous. The investigation has already been done. Now, you need to present some sort of reason to show that investigation was faulty, or some sort of new evidence that creates a reason for a new investigation.

What your doing is the same as the police who try to get an open warrant from a judge because they "really think this is the guy". If they have no evidence, it's just a fishing expedition...and one of those violations of rights you truthers keep yelling about.

Essentially, you have insufficient grounds for your warrant. Denied.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:21 PM   #40
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No, it was an example, and since that is your viewpoint, why do you post here? Go call the authorities.
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