Originator of WTC Demolition Theories: A Closer Look

ref

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ref
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This is quite an interesting story. David Rostcheck, not a poster child for modern day truthers. And, I have nothing against bisexuals or gays. Let's make it clear from the beginning.

The first archived mention of a controlled demolition theory was written by David Rostcheck. Here is his original post, written on September 11, 2001.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/davidr.html

This is considered the first demolition speculation. But who is this David Rostcheck?

A search of his e-mail address gives this:
http://listserv.unl.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9902&L=lmw-l&P=4749

It is David promoting the newly released bisexual resource guide. David was the president of Bisexual Resource Center:

My name is David Rostcheck. In addition to being a software engineer and benefitting a lot from open source, I'm a director for the Bisexual Resource Center
Click to expand...
http://features.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16066&cid=2020634

But this is not all, he was also a civil rights activist with the Pink Pistols, a gay-friendly pro-gun group. See his article here:
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2002/libe182-20020715-02.html

David also has a website, which is weird to say the least:
http://www.thisisdavidr.net/

It includes writings like:
I know, this is not what you are looking for. You're looking for the articles and editorials, for history, for opinions, for the body of work, for something you can disagree with. But this is what you get. If you're one of those people looking for answers, well, there are answers in here, but they're hiding in the noise. You're going to have to dig them out, just as I did. And if you've one of those who has already dug out more than you ever wanted to find, who knows that the taste of the red pills stay in your mouth forever, well...
Click to expand...

He has also some strange encrypted messages:
http://www.thisisdavidr.net/home.html

There he asks questions like:
What is peak oil?
What is wrong with the U.S. "Dollar"?
What is the Sprott Report?
What do wargames have to do with the 9/11 attacks?
Who is Catherine Austin Fitts and what does she know?
Who is Ted Butler and why is he important?


But then there is one more strange part. An article written by him in 2002:
http://www.thisisdavidr.net/columns/celebrating_september_11th.html

No mention of controlled demolition or inside job. Quite the contrary:

We know our enemies are Muslim extremists who hate the American way of life. They hate our religious tolerance, which makes room for all religions - including the vast numbers of peaceful Muslims who are horrified by the actions of the terrorists. They hate our society's commitment to equal rights under the law. They want their women to wear head-to-toe burlap, while American women can lay by the pool in a bikini and a smile - then go to work and run a corporation. And most of all, they hate the idea that a society they consider weak and morally decadent can turn around and lay an ass-whipping on them like nothing they've ever seen, after they held off another superpower for years. They know that if they peek their head out of the wrong cave or talk a little too long on the cell phone, some tough young Air Force aviator is going to send a smart bomb right through their door, and some of his even tougher Marine friends are going to be right behind it.
Click to expand...


Here he describes himself like this:

Libertarian activist David Rostcheck is the Executive Director of the North Bridge Training Institute (www.northbridgetraining.com), an education and training company. He teaches the Engage! series of political action training classes and is producing the CounterAttack 2003 conference for gun rights activists. Rostcheck also works as a civil rights activist with the Pink Pistols, a gay-friendly pro-gun group.
Click to expand...


So in brief:

The man who first brought up the controlled demolition hypothesis is a civil rights activist with the Pink Pistols, a gay-friendly pro-gun group, president of Bisexual Resource Center, and writes some strange encrypted messages on his website. To top it all, a year after 9/11 he writes stuff like: "We know our enemies are Muslim extremists who hate the American way of life." and mentions no inside job.

What do you think the average gay-scared no-hijacker truthers think of this?
 
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Fascinating and informative as always Ref. I've long wondered where 9/11 conspiracy theories got started. The internet, it seems, is a very strange place to archive data, but it might be the best resource for asking questions about internet related phenomena.
 
as interesting as it is im sure there are many folks who arrived at their conclusions independently
 
If the originator of the memo is actually an engineer, he's not a very good or a very smart engineer, at least according to that memo. All discerning scientists know you form even your opinions and certainly your scientific theories based on extensive observation and testing. This idiot writes this memo only hours after the attack essentially telling its audience, the attack was a CD...just because, offering no scientific analysis. This letter seems like it was written by yet another idiot truther merely claiming to be engineer/scientist. He sure did dupe a lot of people though.


ETA:

Jesus Christ, I just discovered he's a software engineer. What a joke.
 
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I don't quite see how his sexuality or support of gay issues enters into this at all. Am I missing something?
 
I would have to disagree with you on who originated WTC demolition theories.. I would argue that the originator of the WTC demolition theories were the.

Date: 9/11/01

1. ABC's Peter Jennings and reporter Don Dahler following the collapse of the north tower, the first assumption is again that controlled demolition must have been used to take down the building.

"Yes Peter its Don Dahler down here. I'm four blocks north of the World Trade Center. The second building that was hit by the plane has just completely collapsed."

"The entire building has just collapsed as if a demolition team set off....when you see the old demolition of these old buildings. It just folded in on itself and it is not there anymore."

Peter Jennings: "If you wish to bring, if anyone has ever watched a building being demolished on purpose knows, that you're going to do this you have to get at the, at the under infrastructure of a building and bring it down."

2.NBC's Pat Dawson reported the working hypothesis of the FDNY in the immediate aftermath of the towers' collapse.

"The chief of safety of the Fire Department of New York City told me he received word of a possibility of a secondary device -- that is another bomb going off. He tries to get his men out as quickly as he could, but he said that there was another explosion which took place and according to his theory, he thinks that there were actually devices that were planted in the building."


3. CBS:News' Dan Rather also commented that the collapse of building 7, which wasn't hit by a plane, resembled a deliberate attempt to demolish the structure using incendiary devices.

"For the third time today, it's reminiscent of those pictures we've all seen too much on television before when a building was deliberately destroyed by well placed dynamite to knock it down."

4.MSNBC news anchor Rick Sanchez reported that police had found suspicious devices in and around the WTC area and that the secondary explosions, which were reported by numerous survivors, were thought by police to be bombs.

"Police have found what they believe to be a suspicious device and they fear that it may lead to another explosion."

"I spoke with some police officials moments ago, Chris, and they told me they have reason to believe that one of the explosions at the World Trade Center aside the ones caused by the planes, may have been caused by a van that was parked on the building that may have had an explosive device in it."

5. FBI-USA Today News Report: Lauren Ashburn: "Joining me is Jack Kelley, now he is a foreign correspondent - war correspondent - and just came back from Israel. He has some information about these attacks. Jack, what can you tell us happened, first in New York."

Jack Kelly: "Um, apparently what appears to happen was that at the same time 2 planes hit the building, that there ... that the FBI most likely thinks that there was a car or truck packed with explosives underneath the buildings, which also exploded at the same time and brought both of them down."

Lauren Ashburn: "Now that's the first time were hearing that, so 2 planes and explosives that were in the building, is that correct?"

Jack Kelley: "That is the working theory at this point, that is still unconfirmed but that is what the FBI is going on at this point."

So in summary it wasn't David Rostcheck that originated the WTC demo theory it began on 9/11/01 with mainstream media reports.



ref said:
This is quite an interesting story. David Rostcheck, not a poster child for modern day truthers. And, I have nothing against bisexuals or gays. Let's make it clear from the beginning.
The first archived mention of a controlled demolition theory was written by David Rostcheck. Here is his original post, written on September 11, 2001.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/davidr.html
This is considered the first demolition speculation. But who is this David Rostcheck? A search of his e-mail address gives this:
http://listserv.unl.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9902&L=lmw-l&P=4749
It is David promoting the newly released bisexual resource guide. David was the president of Bisexual Resource Center:
http://features.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16066&cid=2020634
But this is not all, he was also a civil rights activist with the Pink Pistols, a gay-friendly pro-gun group. See his article here:
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2002/libe182-20020715-02.html
David also has a website, which is weird to say the least:
http://www.thisisdavidr.net/

It includes writings like:


He has also some strange encrypted messages:
http://www.thisisdavidr.net/home.html

There he asks questions like:
What is peak oil?
What is wrong with the U.S. "Dollar"?
What is the Sprott Report?
What do wargames have to do with the 9/11 attacks?
Who is Catherine Austin Fitts and what does she know?
Who is Ted Butler and why is he important?

But then there is one more strange part. An article written by him in 2002:
http://www.thisisdavidr.net/columns/celebrating_september_11th.html
No mention of controlled demolition or inside job. Quite the contrary:
Here he describes himself like this:
So in brief:
The man who first brought up the controlled demolition hypothesis is a civil rights activist with the Pink Pistols, a gay-friendly pro-gun group, president of Bisexual Resource Center, and writes some strange encrypted messages on his website. To top it all, a year after 9/11 he writes stuff like: "We know our enemies are Muslim extremists who hate the American way of life." and mentions no inside job.What do you think the average gay-scared no-hijacker truthers think of this?
Click to expand...
 
mortimer said:
Should we start making posts about what DRG had for dinner last night, or what color socks Dylan is wearing today?
Click to expand...

I think Ref's point is that this gentleman did not fit the profile of the typical "truther." Given the anti-government, anti-handgun and anti-homosexual opinions seen (at least at the LC board), this first truther would be of interest.
 
Swing Dangler said:
I would have to disagree with you on who originated WTC demolition theories.. I would argue that the originator of the WTC demolition theories were the.

Date: 9/11/01

1. ABC's Peter Jennings and reporter Don Dahler following the collapse of the north tower, the first assumption is again that controlled demolition must have been used to take down the building.
Click to expand...


The broadcasters did not assert or even presume the collapses were a controlled demolition (of course, how could they with no scientific education and having witnessed the events mere minutes earlier?). They merely stated that the collapse(s) looked like a controlled demolition, because (you know what?) it did look like a controlled demolition.

So, the broadcasters are not the originators of the proposition that the collapses were a controlled demolition. If the OP is accurate, that distinction belongs to a software engineer having made his conclusions mere hours (minutes?) after the collapse(s).
 
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ref said:
David also has a website, which is weird to say the least:
http://www.thisisdavidr.net/
Click to expand...

Understatement of the year. BTW, the font on some this site appears to be gray, just slightly darker than the white background. If any of you venturing to the site are computer challenged, highlighting the text with your cursor will make it easier to read. (But it will not do anything to make it easier to understand.)

His philosophy seems to be, 'if no one can understand what I'm saying, then they won't be able to refute it.'

Thanks for the info Ref.
 
The Almond said:
I think Ref's point is that this gentleman did not fit the profile of the typical "truther." Given the anti-government, anti-handgun and anti-homosexual opinions seen (at least at the LC board), this first truther would be of interest.
Click to expand...

Exactly. His sexuality has nothing to do with the claims of course.
 
Originally posted by Swing Dangler:
3. CBS:News' Dan Rather also commented that the collapse of building 7, which wasn't hit by a plane, resembled a deliberate attempt to demolish the structure using incendiary devices.

"For the third time today, it's reminiscent of those pictures we've all seen too much on television before when a building was deliberately destroyed by well placed dynamite to knock it down."
Click to expand...

Dynamite is not an incendiary, its an explosive.

Incendiaries are not used in controlled demolitions Btw.
 
GStan said:
Understatement of the year. BTW, the font on some this site appears to be gray, just slightly darker than the white background.
Click to expand...


And this guy is a software engineer (reportedly).
 
Swing Dangler said:
4.MSNBC news anchor Rick Sanchez reported that police had found suspicious devices in and around the WTC area and that the secondary explosions, which were reported by numerous survivors, were thought by police to be bombs.

"Police have found what they believe to be a suspicious device and they fear that it may lead to another explosion."

"I spoke with some police officials moments ago, Chris, and they told me they have reason to believe that one of the explosions at the World Trade Center aside the ones caused by the planes, may have been caused by a van that was parked on the building that may have had an explosive device in it."

5. FBI-USA Today News Report: Lauren Ashburn: "Joining me is Jack Kelley, now he is a foreign correspondent - war correspondent - and just came back from Israel. He has some information about these attacks. Jack, what can you tell us happened, first in New York."

Jack Kelly: "Um, apparently what appears to happen was that at the same time 2 planes hit the building, that there ... that the FBI most likely thinks that there was a car or truck packed with explosives underneath the buildings, which also exploded at the same time and brought both of them down."

Lauren Ashburn: "Now that's the first time were hearing that, so 2 planes and explosives that were in the building, is that correct?"

Jack Kelley: "That is the working theory at this point, that is still unconfirmed but that is what the FBI is going on at this point."

So in summary it wasn't David Rostcheck that originated the WTC demo theory it began on 9/11/01 with mainstream media reports.
Click to expand...

It was prudent for FBI and Police to be suspicious of this at the time, even without evidence of it. Once the second plane hit, it was clear to everyone, including law enforcement, that this was an attack on the WTC, not an accident. Many of these same officials could have worked the scene 8 years prior when terrorists attempted to bring down the buildings with explosives. It was not an unreasonable assumption to make. Have any of those FBI or police officials who were quoted joined the truth movement to expose this obvious cover-up?
 
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Mince said:
If the originator of the memo is actually an engineer, he's not a very good or a very smart engineer, at least according to that memo.
Click to expand...

He's also not a very well-informed engineer. From the memo:

The building stays up. A reinforced concrete building is *extremely* strong.
Click to expand...

Yet when the truth movement finds out the building wasn't made of reinforced concrete, do they re-examine their beliefs?

ETA: Missed one.

Sprinklers can kill incredible infernos, and that's what these do.
Click to expand...

He was basically just guessing, and he guessed wrong. And yet six years of conflicting data hasn't persuaded some truthers to abandon a hypothesis based on some erroneous guesswork. That's the epitome of woo.

Dave
 
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Swing Dangler said:
I would have to disagree with you on who originated WTC demolition theories.. I would argue that the originator of the WTC demolition theories were the [list of newscasters making vague statement or quick judgments in lack of solid evidence].
Click to expand...

Swing- you just shot yourself in the foot. All of these reporters would be willing to clarify their statements (and some have), and do not believe in the CD theories.

So your "basis" for belief at worst abandoned the theory long ago.
 
Totovader said:
Swing- you just shot yourself in the foot. All of these reporters would be willing to clarify their statements (and some have), and do not believe in the CD theories.

So your "basis" for belief at worst abandoned the theory long ago.
Click to expand...


He would likely have known that with proper research (before making his post).
 
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Mince said:
The broadcasters did not assert or even presume the collapses were a controlled demolition (of course, how could they with no scientific education and having witnessed the events mere minutes earlier?). They merely stated that the collapse(s) looked like a controlled demolition, because (you know what?) it did look like a controlled demolition.

So, the broadcasters are not the originators of the proposition that the collapses were a controlled demolition. If the OP is accurate, that distinction belongs to a software engineer having made his conclusions mere hours (minutes?) after the collapse(s).
Click to expand...

According to your logic, only people who have a scientific education can originate a controlled demolition theory. This includes David Rostcheck. Perhaps you should be debunking Ref.

Totovader
Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
I would have to disagree with you on who originated WTC demolition theories.. I would argue that the originator of the WTC demolition theories were the[list of newscasters making vague statement or quick judgments in lack of solid evidence].
Swing- you just shot yourself in the foot. All of these reporters would be willing to clarify their statements (and some have), and do not believe in the CD theories.

So your "basis" for belief at worst abandoned the theory long ago.
Click to expand...
Toto reading comprehension problems again? Read the title of the thread again and focus on something else.
 
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ref said:
The man who first brought up the controlled demolition hypothesis is a civil rights activist with the Pink Pistols, a gay-friendly pro-gun group
Click to expand...
One of my shooting buddies is gay.

Wait, I should re-word that. :eye-poppi
 
Swing Dangler said:
According to your logic, only people who have a scientific education can originate a controlled demolition theory. This includes David Rostcheck. Perhaps you should be debunking Ref.
Click to expand...


Incorrect. According to my logic, only people who've done research, observation, experimentation and applied critical thought and analysis can originate a controlled demolition theory---not newscasters minutes after or software engineers hours after the building collapses, silly.

According to your logic, a bartender can perfor a Coronary Artery Bypass and Graft even if he's not had a medical education as long as he's "smart" enough and done enough internet research.
 
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Swing Dangler said:
5. FBI-USA Today News Report: Lauren Ashburn: "Joining me is Jack Kelley, now he is a foreign correspondent - war correspondent - and just came back from Israel. He has some information about these attacks. Jack, what can you tell us happened, first in New York."

Jack Kelly: "Um, apparently what appears to happen was that at the same time 2 planes hit the building, that there ... that the FBI most likely thinks that there was a car or truck packed with explosives underneath the buildings, which also exploded at the same time and brought both of them down."
Click to expand...

Jack Kelley? This Jack Kelley of USA Today?

USA TODAY foreign correspondent Jack Kelley was forced to resign last week after he repeatedly misled editors during an internal investigation into stories he wrote, the newspaper's top editors said Monday.
Click to expand...

Got any reports from Stephen Glass or Jayson Blair you want to share with us, Swing?
 
Swing Dangler said:
Toto reading comprehension problems again? Read the title of the thread again and focus on something else.
Click to expand...

That's an entirely insufficient response.

I have no problem with my reading comprehension. You claimed that there were better sources for the CD claims. You failed to realize that these sources don't actually believe in CD.

Can you address that or not?
 
Totovader said:
That's an entirely insufficient response.

I have no problem with my reading comprehension. You claimed that there were better sources for the CD claims. You failed to realize that these sources don't actually believe in CD.

Can you address that or not?
Click to expand...

So now your putting a condition on the title of the thread? "Originator of WTC Demolition Theory (who still believe in CD): A Closer Look".
 
Swing Dangler said:
So now your putting a condition on the title of the thread? "Originator of WTC Demolition Theory (who still believe in CD): A Closer Look".
Click to expand...

Not in the least. Apparently, you're the one with reading comprehension problems. As I said in my first post (the one you ignored):

Totovader said:
Swing- you just shot yourself in the foot. All of these reporters would be willing to clarify their statements (and some have), and do not believe in the CD theories.

So your "basis" for belief at worst abandoned the theory long ago.
Click to expand...
 
Swing Dangler said:
So now your putting a condition on the title of the thread? "Originator of WTC Demolition Theory (who still believe in CD): A Closer Look".
Click to expand...

It's likely that even David Rostcheck believed in controlled demolition only for a very short while. This from him, written on 12/12/2001:

America is currently at war with terrorist groups. To say "America is at war" captures correctly the idea that the American people, not just the American government, are engaged in war. We, the people, were targeted by the September 11th attacks, and it is we, the people, who will battle back and subdue the terrorists. For every one of us who serves aboard a ship or plane or carries a rifle, dozens more will dig through wreckage, contribute money and food, notice suspicious activity, train ourselves in self defense and first aid, drive the engines of our economy, and work to pay the taxes that fund the soldiers and police. Within hours of the attack, citizens spontaneously began flying the flags that currently blanket our nation. Called forth from history, where it had waited patiently, the phrase "united we stand" returned to American public life, to be written on flags, scrawled in dust, hung on bridges, and spoken from podiums. The fanatics who attacked the United States consider us to be a weak and decadent nation, but the old men who walk smiling through our streets have always known that we have this power to unite in single, unstoppable purpose.
http://www.thisisdavidr.net/columns/the_lost_city.html
Click to expand...
 
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Mince said:
A software engineer...mere hours after the collapse(s). I don't know. Pretty perplexing, isn't it?
Click to expand...

He arrived at that conclusion based upon the same way those list of mainstream media talking heads and reporters arrived at that conclusion.
Totovader
Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
I would have to disagree with you on who originated WTC demolition theories.. I would argue that the originator of the WTC demolition theories were the[list of newscasters making vague statement or quick judgments in lack of solid evidence].
Swing- you just shot yourself in the foot. All of these reporters would be willing to clarify their statements (and some have), and do not believe in the CD theories.

So your "basis" for belief at worst abandoned the theory long ago.
Click to expand...
Hmm no question for me here. What dodge are you referring to?
What you should have done and may still do is try to explain how those people I listed did not originate the CD theory.
 
Swing Dangler said:
I missed the part in your story where Jack was guilty of fabricating the 9/11 report?

Because you are very aware that Rick Sanchez's report corroborates Jack's 9/11 report, right? Right?
Click to expand...

Pat are you there? Ohhh Brainster where are you?
 
Swing Dangler said:
Hmm no question for me here. What dodge are you referring to?
Click to expand...

There need not be a question mark for you to dodge the point. I've posted my point twice, now- I don't think I need to keep doing that. You're just going to continue to dodge it and others have noticed- if that's the best I can get out of you, then so be it.

What you should have done and may still do is try to explain how those people I listed did not originate the CD theory.
Click to expand...

What I should have done is pointed out the inconsistency in your claim- which is exactly what I did, and exactly what you have ignored 3 times, now.
 
Swing Dangler said:
He arrived at that conclusion based upon the same way those list of mainstream media talking heads and reporters arrived at that conclusion.
Click to expand...


Of course. And, regardless of what you believe, they were all incorrect in their procedure and presumptions. Though they duped many people and many still rely on their dialog. "Look, a television news reporter says (minutes after the collapse) it was a controlled demolition." You might be surprised how many of your bretheren use this as an empirical argument in favor of controlled demolition.
 
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Swing Dangler said:
He arrived at that conclusion based upon the same way those list of mainstream media talking heads and reporters arrived at that conclusion.

Hmm no question for me here. What dodge are you referring to?
What you should have done and may still do is try to explain how those people I listed did not originate the CD theory.
Click to expand...

To me the difference is this.

The media people speculated that it maybe looked like a demolition, reported possible devices and so on. They didn't say "this was demolition".

David Rostcheck on the other hand said:
"[FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In summary, it looks exactly like a demolition - because that's what it is"

and

"[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But look at the footage - those buildings were *demolished*."


Two days after David posted his mail, on 9/13/2001, Peter Meyer wrote his article "World Trade Center Bombing", which was based on the writings of David.

This is why David is the originator.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
 
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Just because a news reporter makes a similie, doesn't mean they are originating any theories.

The noise sounded like two freight trains going over a trestle right over your head; it was an ugly roar. My wife said the noise when the house went was like a giant pencil sharpener working.
Click to expand...

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/1953beecher/storiesFJ.php

Are they originating freight train crash theories, or just describing the tornado?
 
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