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Tags steven jones , thermate , thermite , wtc

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Old 22nd December 2007, 08:03 AM   #1
metamars
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Prof. Jones: Thermate on a Chip?

Announcing a discovery: Red/gray bi-layered chips in the WTC dust

http://911blogger.com/node/13090#comment


======================================

Also, Physorg.com has an article entitled

Explosives on a chip

http://www.physorg.com/news117207324.html

This work is still in development, but perhaps similar, non-mass produced technology existed in 2001.

Pictured is a very thin copper plate, with the caption

Quote:
Copper structure shown here is a precursor material for explosive compounds used in military detonators. The copper structure can be formed on chips, then converted to an explosive compound. The compound is being used to improve US Navy detonator devices.
First paragraph:

Quote:
Developed by a team of scientists from the Georgia Tech Research Institute (GTRI) and the Indian Head Division of the Naval Surface Warfare Center, the highly-uniform copper structures will be incorporated into integrated circuits then chemically converted to millimeter-diameter explosives. Because they can be integrated into standard microelectronics fabrication processes, the copper materials will enable micro-electromechanical (MEMS) fuzes for military munitions to be mass-produced like computer chips.
One could see the possible usefulness of a smart detonator. If the firing of the detonator can be controlled by integrated circuit, perhaps the rest of circuit could be made to communicate with a GPS system. The detonator could then be armed if it's location was the desired one, and disarmed otherwise.

In a WTC demolition scenario, I suppose such an integrated circuit could be used to receive radio or other EM radiation signals to detonate, thus enabling remote control.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 08:26 AM   #2
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Metamars:

Thanks for this information.

I have two comments:

1.When is Prof. Jones going to publish his X-ray spectra so we can all take a closer look at them? Just flashing them up on a slide at a talk is of no real use!

2. So these chips contain Fe, Al, K, Si, and O..... What happened to the S that was so important last time around? And since when is Si an ingredient of thermite/thermate?
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Old 22nd December 2007, 08:26 AM   #3
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What does Jones' talk have to do with the explosives on a chip article?

There are smart detonators today - doesn't sound like it adds a capability. It just makes the capability smaller and cheaper. This allows the "smart" capability to be put in smaller munitions.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 09:12 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
Metamars:

Thanks for this information.

I have two comments:

1.When is Prof. Jones going to publish his X-ray spectra so we can all take a closer look at them? Just flashing them up on a slide at a talk is of no real use!

2. So these chips contain Fe, Al, K, Si, and O..... What happened to the S that was so important last time around? And since when is Si an ingredient of thermite/thermate?
I tend to stay away from this side of the playground, but Jones does say he submitted his samples to an independent laboratory. Hopefully, these results will be published and we won't be dependent on Jones' spectra alone.

Welcome back, Dr.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 09:14 AM   #5
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Dumb smart detonators

Originally Posted by metamars View Post

One could see the possible usefulness of a smart detonator. If the firing of the detonator can be controlled by integrated circuit, perhaps the rest of circuit could be made to communicate with a GPS system. The detonator could then be armed if it's location was the desired one, and disarmed otherwise.

In a WTC demolition scenario, I suppose such an integrated circuit could be used to receive radio or other EM radiation signals to detonate, thus enabling remote control.

Ahem...

If you're looking for a smart detonator, consider plastic tube filled with thermite, and ignited by jet impact.

You can see white flashes from some of the thermite fuse burning in the first 15 seconds or so of this video. At 10 seconds, there is a white flash that travels in a J shape. (A stabilized version of this white flash can also be seen at minute 4:38)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tBNpDOpq3A

The trained eye can see that the bright upward-traveling flash of the burning thermite fuse occurs exactly as one of NIST's coordinated sequence of smoke puffs "reminiscent of of old-fashioned steam-driven pipe-organs" intersects the flash's point of origin.

Remember, NCSTAR 1-5A/9/C says the coordinated smoke puffs, pressure pulses, white glows, metal flows, hanging objects changing positions, and other dramatic phenomena - were all correlated!

Yeah they are correlated. Thermite fuse - ignited by jet impact - linked and ignited planted thermite that was used to heat steel connections, to get floors to sag, and columns to bow inward.


You want a smart detonator? Thermite ignites thermite. And Home Depot's got garden irrigation tubing...
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Old 22nd December 2007, 09:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Max Photon View Post

You want a smart detonator? Thermite ignites thermite. And Home Depot's got garden irrigation tubing...
I know I'm in the wrong sandbox here, but I believe this info, which was posted on 911blogger in an exchange with Dr. Jones, is exactly what you're talking about.

Physorg.com has an article entitled

"Explosives on a chip"

http://www.physorg.com/news117207324.html

This work is still in development, but perhaps similar, non-mass produced technology existed in 2001.

Pictured is a very thin copper plate, with the caption

"Copper structure shown here is a precursor material for explosive compounds used in military detonators. The copper structure can be formed on chips, then converted to an explosive compound. The compound is being used to improve US Navy detonator devices."

First paragraph:

" Developed by a team of scientists from the Georgia Tech Research Institute (GTRI) and the Indian Head Division of the Naval Surface Warfare Center, the highly-uniform copper structures will be incorporated into integrated circuits – then chemically converted to millimeter-diameter explosives. Because they can be integrated into standard microelectronics fabrication processes, the copper materials will enable micro-electromechanical (MEMS) fuzes for military munitions to be mass-produced like computer chips. "
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Old 22nd December 2007, 09:38 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
I know I'm in the wrong sandbox here......but perhaps similar, non-mass produced technology existed in 2001.
Perhaps in the world of CT fantasist's maybe. Keep dreaming Red. Keep hoping. I can only imagine how the CT mind works. Having beliefs, being so sure of so much yet not a shred of evidence, just beliefs. Knowing so little, no related education or experience, relying solely on beliefs.

Perhaps, Red. Keep believing.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 09:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
Perhaps in the world of CT fantasist's maybe. Keep dreaming Red. Keep hoping. I can only imagine how the CT mind works. Having beliefs, being so sure of so much yet not a shred of evidence, just beliefs. Knowing so little, no related education or experience, relying solely on beliefs.

Perhaps, Red. Keep believing.
Don't get all worked up. I admitted I don't have the education and experience to get into these highly technical discussions, but I read them and am educated by them. Perhaps, I'm wrong, but I thought this info might support what Max was describing.

No need to be condescending.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 09:47 AM   #9
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Thanks RedIbis....

I am not questioning Jones' data, I am questioning his interpretation of said data.

You need to take a look at Volume III of the famous "Particle Atlas" by Walter McCrone. This provides scanning electron micrographs and EDX spectra for thousands of common materials. The section from pages 760 - 780 is most interesting since it shows flyash microspheres from large domestic waste incinerators burning paper, wood and plastics as well as flyash from coal-fired furnaces. The EDX spectra show major peaks from Al, Si, K, Ca, and Fe together with smaller peaks from Ti, S and Cl.

Jones' spectra are a perfect match for FLY ASH!
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Old 22nd December 2007, 09:52 AM   #10
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Thanks for that info Apollo20.

I am still trying to figure out how metamars and redibis link "chips" that Jones described with integrated circuits. The only thing they seem to have in common is the word "chips".
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Old 22nd December 2007, 09:56 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
Thanks RedIbis....

I am not questioning Jones' data, I am questioning his interpretation of said data.

You need to take a look at Volume III of the famous "Particle Atlas" by Walter McCrone. This provides scanning electron micrographs and EDX spectra for thousands of common materials. The section from pages 760 - 780 is most interesting since it shows flyash microspheres from large domestic waste incinerators burning paper, wood and plastics as well as flyash from coal-fired furnaces. The EDX spectra show major peaks from Al, Si, K, Ca, and Fe together with smaller peaks from Ti, S and Cl.

Jones' spectra are a perfect match for FLY ASH!
I'm a bit shocked that I actually understood all of that and you make a very valid point. I'm going to hold my tongue and watch from the sidelines. I hope we agree that these are developments well worth watching. If nothing else, at least someone is researching available materials and now they've been submitted to an independent laboratory. Jones appears to be accepting the possibility that his findings will be refuted. If only NIST would submit to the same challenge.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 10:07 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Thanks for that info Apollo20.

I am still trying to figure out how metamars and redibis link "chips" that Jones described with integrated circuits. The only thing they seem to have in common is the word "chips".
It has nothing to do with circuits. This is about the copper material that can be mass produced like computer chips or on computer chips. The hypothesis is that the red side might indicate a detonator for a larger charge.

I'm probably mangling all of this, so if you just want to follow Dr. Jones' exchange, please check this:
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Old 22nd December 2007, 10:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
No need to be condescending.
Gee, I'm so sorry you feel I was condescending. Please forgive me. Maybe I should just accuse you of criminal neglect as it relates to the murder of 3000 people, you don't seem to have any issues with accusing people of that now do you.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 10:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
Gee, I'm so sorry you feel I was condescending. Please forgive me. Maybe I should just accuse you of criminal neglect as it relates to the murder of 3000 people, you don't seem to have any issues with accusing people of that now do you.
I always find righteous indignation to be a lame excuse for incivility.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 10:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
It has nothing to do with circuits. This is about the copper material that can be mass produced like computer chips or on computer chips. The hypothesis is that the red side might indicate a detonator for a larger charge.

I'm probably mangling all of this, so if you just want to follow Dr. Jones' exchange, please check this:

Whose hypothesis? Metamars, both in this forum and on 911blogger, pasted the link to the article on chips. What does that have to do with what Jones is discussing?
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Old 22nd December 2007, 10:35 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
I always find righteous indignation to be a lame excuse for incivility.
Gee, I apologized for my appearance of being "condescending". .

Only in the twisted mind of a CTist, is accusing innocent people of complicity in mass murder more "civil", then pointing out that they are doing it.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 10:54 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
I always find righteous indignation to be a lame excuse for incivility.
Do you have a better excuse for yours?
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Old 22nd December 2007, 12:09 PM   #18
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I'll wait to see this molehill turned into a truther mountain...and then watch it turn to "dust" just like the rest.

TAM
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Old 22nd December 2007, 12:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Whose hypothesis? Metamars, both in this forum and on 911blogger, pasted the link to the article on chips. What does that have to do with what Jones is discussing?
Jones is discussing a chip, one side of which he believes is thermite.

Let's say it is. How would one used it in a building demolition?

Based on the physorg article, one way may be as a detonator. Indeed, if it's derived from integrated circuit technology, it's reasonable to expect silicon to be found in it. Correct? If so, then one of Greening's concerns may have no merit.

Of course, the devil is in the details. I don't have more details, nor the requisite background, which would allow me to rule out such a possibility or not, or simply make it more or less plausible.

If you do, feel free to post them.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 12:47 PM   #20
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Oh they do have a link to circuit boards just not the link that is proposed here, I found them in my first experiments on how to created the spheres.

Ferric Chloride is the other etchant. It's a reddish-orange colored liquid.



There are other chips naturally formed as well.

It is to be expected that they would be found.



The chemitry is there in the fires to form them.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 01:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Jones is discussing a chip, one side of which he believes is thermite.

Let's say it is. How would one used it in a building demolition?

Based on the physorg article, one way may be as a detonator. Indeed, if it's derived from integrated circuit technology, it's reasonable to expect silicon to be found in it. Correct? If so, then one of Greening's concerns may have no merit.

Of course, the devil is in the details. I don't have more details, nor the requisite background, which would allow me to rule out such a possibility or not, or simply make it more or less plausible.

If you do, feel free to post them.
You would keep it as far away from fire as possible because nano thermite particles can be ignited at 250c or though shock waves.

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/serv...cvips&gifs=yes
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Old 22nd December 2007, 02:52 PM   #22
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why am I not surprised that another "smoking gun" is a "smoking pile" instead.

TAM
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Old 22nd December 2007, 03:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
why am I not surprised that another "smoking gun" is a "smoking pile" instead.

TAM
Smoking pile of chips I would say.

This is analogous to finding a potato or paint chip and linking to an article to Intel's latest microprocessor.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 03:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Oh they do have a link to circuit boards just not the link that is proposed here, I found them in my first experiments on how to created the spheres.

Ferric Chloride is the other etchant. It's a reddish-orange colored liquid.

http://chainsawsanders.com/ironclorideZinccloride.JPG

There are other chips naturally formed as well.

It is to be expected that they would be found.

http://chainsawsanders.com/pigiron2.JPG

The chemitry is there in the fires to form them.
A-h-h-h, your 'chip' doesn't look like a chip, certainly not one with 2 layers, nor does your red seem, well, very red.

To be fair, I am going on Professor Jones verbal description, and his red may not be all that red, either.

Also, your micro-sphere doesn't seem all that spherical.

But FRY ON, Mr. Crazy Chainsaw. There may a part for you in the 'Fantastic Five', with you as Number 5.

Or, they may remake 'Mystery Men', and replace 'The Shoveler' with 'The Frying Pan Fryer'. We could be talking a serious career change for you!

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Old 22nd December 2007, 04:11 PM   #25
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nut case ideas keep spewing from failed 9/11 truth leader

Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Announcing a discovery: Red/gray bi-layered chips in the WTC dust
http://911blogger.com/node/13090#comment
======================================
Also, Physorg.com has an article entitled
Explosives on a chip
http://www.physorg.com/news117207324.html
This work is still in development, but perhaps similar, non-mass produced technology existed in 2001.
Pictured is a very thin copper plate, with the caption
First paragraph:
One could see the possible usefulness of a smart detonator. If the firing of the detonator can be controlled by integrated circuit, perhaps the rest of circuit could be made to communicate with a GPS system. The detonator could then be armed if it's location was the desired one, and disarmed otherwise.
In a WTC demolition scenario, I suppose such an integrated circuit could be used to receive radio or other EM radiation signals to detonate, thus enabling remote control.
So the guy who woke up 4 years after 9/11, got mad due to Iraq, made up thermite bringing down the WTC, now continues to rant about thermite, computer controlled demolition (CCD) of the WTC? Jones is nuts, if you sit through his talks, he is so nice but has no facts about what happen on 9/11 and can not say anything about 9/11. He even tells you he has nothing. He is nuts, does not say anything, he lies, and now he continues his madness. Jones, a true leader of those in 9/11 truth, leading the way with made up stories, made up evidence, and made up devices to carry out his made up plot of fantasy BS, because when he dropped a concrete block he did not get much dust.

Quote:
Jones 4 years after 9/11 decides to take it to the man! ---
5. I conducted simple experiments on the "pancaking" theory, by dropping cement blocks from approximately 12 feet onto other cement blocks. (The floors in the WTC buildings were about 12 feet apart.) We are supposed to believe, from the pancaking theory, that a concrete floor dropping 12 feet onto another concrete floor will result in PULVERIZED concrete observed during the Towers' collapses! Nonsense! My own experiments, and I welcome you to try this yourself, is that only chips/large chunks of cement flaked off the blocks -- no mass pulverization to approx. 100-micron powder as observed. Explosives, however, can indeed convert concrete to dust --mostly, along with some large chunks-- as observed in the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9-11-01.
What Jones forgot is the WTC did have over 100 tons of TNT energy in them placed by the workers. Yes, mass; the mass of the building when it failed was turned to KE with the help of mysterious force, gravity. Ask Newton, he will say, "gravity, gravity, everything fall with gravity"! I think Jones is a moron on 9/11. Everyone but 9/11 truth believers (believe in lies about 9/11), have seen Jones as non starter as he lies about simple things like cut columns during clean up become his proof of thermite, or RDX cutter charges. His squibs are even more ridicules. Keep making up junk Jones, there are those who will follow, not too bright, but they follow anyway.

I expect this thermite chip is another junk idea to lure in idiots and hook them on CT of the most stupid.
Good job posting another nut case idea to make his nut case plot come true in his own head.

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Old 22nd December 2007, 04:50 PM   #26
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Until Jones allows others access to his data and experiments to verify through repeated analysis, I do not trust his work further than I can throw it.

TAM

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Old 22nd December 2007, 05:06 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
A-h-h-h, your 'chip' doesn't look like a chip, certainly not one with 2 layers, nor does your red seem, well, very red.

To be fair, I am going on Professor Jones verbal description, and his red may not be all that red, either.

Also, your micro-sphere doesn't seem all that spherical.

But FRY ON, Mr. Crazy Chainsaw. There may a part for you in the 'Fantastic Five', with you as Number 5.

Or, they may remake 'Mystery Men', and replace 'The Shoveler' with 'The Frying Pan Fryer'. We could be talking a serious career change for you!
Tantrums are so cute. Do you want a cookie? Maybe a juice box too?
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Old 22nd December 2007, 05:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
A-h-h-h, your 'chip' doesn't look like a chip, certainly not one with 2 layers, nor does your red seem, well, very red.

To be fair, I am going on Professor Jones verbal description, and his red may not be all that red, either.

Also, your micro-sphere doesn't seem all that spherical.

But FRY ON, Mr. Crazy Chainsaw. There may a part for you in the 'Fantastic Five', with you as Number 5.

Or, they may remake 'Mystery Men', and replace 'The Shoveler' with 'The Frying Pan Fryer'. We could be talking a serious career change for you!
Oh I am so sorry metamars that I did not show the multi layered section.


It is only composed of hunderds of layers, formed by a reduction reaction, Fe 203, + carbon black, giving off CO2and leaving a layer of Fe 2O3-red iron oxide, on the unexposed side, and Fe GREY IRON on the side exposed to carbon.
OH the carbon black used was Diesel fuel soot similar to this collected from diesel mufflers at the local salvage yard.


Might I remind everyone that the action of Chlorides would be very corrosive on unprotected steel along with steam, or water in the vapor phase the results of such reactions would have created thousands of flakes-Chips.
Heating or chemical reactions can fuse the chips together.

metamars This is something that would be expected nothing more, and with Fe 2O3 the redness will vary after all mars is red because of Fe 2O3.

Also where have a posted a picture of any micro spheres only after the iron cloride is oxidized does it become Fe304 and form spheres some of which can be quite large and simular to in appearence to spheres fromed by thermites.




Which is which metamars, which is which do you know metamars do you know?

PS. metamars I am glad that I had this to clean up the mess from my so called flying pan experiments.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 05:12 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
I'm a bit shocked that I actually understood all of that and you make a very valid point. I'm going to hold my tongue and watch from the sidelines. I hope we agree that these are developments well worth watching. If nothing else, at least someone is researching available materials and now they've been submitted to an independent laboratory. Jones appears to be accepting the possibility that his findings will be refuted. If only NIST would submit to the same challenge.
What it means? Jones has no evidence for a plot of thermite bringing down the WTC, he never will because he made it up. Wake up. Jones was asleep on 9/11 for 4 years, then he made it up. Anything Jones does on 9/11 is worthless to support the failed ideas and conclusion of 9/11 truth. The only other use for watching Jones is to avoid doing the same stupid act when we get older. He made up the thermite plot to bring down the WTC.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 06:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Oh I am so sorry metamars that I did not show the multi layered section.
http://chainsawsanders.com/pigiron.JPG

It is only composed of hunderds of layers, formed by a reduction reaction, Fe 203, + carbon black, giving off CO2and leaving a layer of Fe 2O3-red iron oxide, on the unexposed side, and Fe GREY IRON on the side exposed to carbon.



:-) Somehow, your "chip" seems more like an arrowhead. More like a chip-off-the-old boulder rather than a chip-off-the-old-hi-tech-detonator.

Dr. Jones has stated
Quote:
It was exciting to me to find for the first time iron-rich spheres up to about 1.5 mm in diameter in a 32.1-gram sample of dust.
So, 1.5 mm should be considered an upper limit.

Your "microspheres" looks somewhat larger than this. What about smaller ones? Did you get those, too? Can you state some kind of size distribution?


BTW, I just re-read the physorg article, and microspheres are used in the production of the fuzes-on-a-chip. I.e., pre-detonation.


Quote:


Might I remind everyone that the action of Chlorides would be very corrosive on unprotected steel along with steam, or water in the vapor phase the results of such reactions would have created thousands of flakes-Chips.
Heating or chemical reactions can fuse the chips together.
Professor Jones said nothing about hundreds of layers being fused together. The idea is to reproduce his samples using only common or expected reactions.


Quote:
metamars This is something that would be expected nothing more, and with Fe 2O3 the redness will vary after all mars is red because of Fe 2O3.
There are zillions of red things in the world. How many processes, though, results in red/gray chips, of the approximate dimensions seen by Professor Jones? If we can't even do that, at all, then there's no point in asking if we can do it in such a way as to yield the XEDS spectrographs that Jones has done.

BTW, metamars is blue, and building fall UP.

Quote:

Also where have a posted a picture of any micro spheres only after the iron cloride is oxidized does it become Fe304 and form spheres some of which can be quite large and simular to in appearence to spheres fromed by thermites.


Which is which metamars, which is which do you know metamars do you know?
No, you got me there.

Quote:
PS. metamars I am glad that I had this to clean up the mess from my so called flying pan experiments.
http://chainsawsanders.com/Equipment001.jpg
Some of us march to the beat of a different drummer.

You seem to have your own marching band!
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Old 22nd December 2007, 06:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Pookster View Post
Tantrums are so cute. Do you want a cookie? Maybe a juice box too?
Tantrum???

I'm enjoying Mr. Crazy Chainsaw's posts immensely.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 07:19 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Tantrum???

I'm enjoying Mr. Crazy Chainsaw's posts immensely.
Of course, you are. *pats your head*
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Old 22nd December 2007, 07:30 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Max Photon View Post
Ahem...

If you're looking for a smart detonator, consider plastic tube filled with thermite, and ignited by jet impact.

You can see white flashes from some of the thermite fuse burning in the first 15 seconds or so of this video. At 10 seconds, there is a white flash that travels in a J shape. (A stabilized version of this white flash can also be seen at minute 4:38)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tBNpDOpq3A

The trained eye can see that the bright upward-traveling flash of the burning thermite fuse occurs exactly as one of NIST's coordinated sequence of smoke puffs "reminiscent of of old-fashioned steam-driven pipe-organs" intersects the flash's point of origin.

Remember, NCSTAR 1-5A/9/C says the coordinated smoke puffs, pressure pulses, white glows, metal flows, hanging objects changing positions, and other dramatic phenomena - were all correlated!

Yeah they are correlated. Thermite fuse - ignited by jet impact - linked and ignited planted thermite that was used to heat steel connections, to get floors to sag, and columns to bow inward.


You want a smart detonator? Thermite ignites thermite. And Home Depot's got garden irrigation tubing...

If you're looking for an obtuse poster, consider Max Photon. His thermite crackpottery has been thoroughly debunked, but our intrepid poseur is not done yet.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 08:16 PM   #34
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nvm.

Last edited by Gravy; 22nd December 2007 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 22nd December 2007, 11:18 PM   #35
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I prefer my red and gray chips in a bowl, with a little onion dip on the side...you can keep the thermite...

TAM
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Old 23rd December 2007, 02:38 AM   #36
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Erm...Columns were painted red. Anybody know what sort of paint that was (like red lead, maybe, or was that outlawed by the time the towers were built?) or what other paints or coatings might have been applied in the foundary?

One of the benefits of having worked as a day laborer between training jobs over the last couple years was that I got to see how some really interesting things were built and maintained.

I chipped a lot of paint off boats in the Port of Tacoma. The interior walls were pretty much uniformly-colored, no matter how many layers were applied over the course of a year.

But, when we did anything to the superstructure of an older boat, rarely were chips the same color on both sides.

So, would there have been a differently-colored primer under the red paint on the columns, or some other coating between the red paint and bare steel?
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Old 23rd December 2007, 07:47 AM   #37
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Quote:
metamars Somehow, your "chip" seems more like an arrowhead. More like a chip-off-the-old boulder rather than a chip-off-the-old-hi-tech-detonator.

Dr. Jones has stated


So, 1.5 mm should be considered an upper limit.

Your "microspheres" looks somewhat larger than this. What about smaller ones? Did you get those, too? Can you state some kind of size distribution?
I got a wide range of spheres only the big macro spheres do not travel far in the air because of gravity, remember that most of the spheres collected had to travel though the air in the dust larger spheres or even chips simply would settle out faster DA.
However the reactions that create them are not limited in size.
PS. it is easier to take a photo of the large ones, it takes a very good microscope to photograph the small ones.
However you do notice the spherical shape, right you have gotten that point do you not?


Quote:
BTW, I just re-read the physorg article, and microspheres are used in the production of the fuzes-on-a-chip. I.e., pre-detonation.
OF course micro spheres of fe 304, and Al, that form Fe and Al203.

DA what do you think thermite is?




Quote:
Professor Jones said nothing about hundreds of layers being fused together. The idea is to reproduce his samples using only common or expected reactions.
DA reduction and oxidation reactions are expected in the environment DA.

Quote:
There are zillions of red things in the world. How many processes, though, results in red/gray chips, of the approximate dimensions seen by Professor Jones? If we can't even do that, at all, then there's no point in asking if we can do it in such a way as to yield the XEDS spectrographs that Jones has done.
DA there are many things that break up when crushed by tons of material falling down on it. PS such things as red and Gray chips need only be the result of natural occurances in the fires and collapses involving a multi-layered Crystalline metallic.

Quote:
BTW, metamars is blue, and building fall UP.



No, you got me there.
The one in the pliers is from the thermite reaction, notice the shiny aluminum still on the surface of the iron that was produced in the reaction?
The reaction involved Fe 304 and Al as I said producing Fe pure FE, and Al 203.


Quote:
Some of us march to the beat of a different drummer.



You seem to have your own marching band!
NO I simply believe that science is science, and the natural constants of the universe can not be violated ever.

Black iron oxide from a cutting torch Fe 304, next to Fe+Fe304 magnetite, red Fe 203 hematite from both a thermite reaction and chloride reaction on steel.



Metamars can you please point out the piece of Crystalline metallic layered material that is from the Thermite reaction as oppose to that from a fire on the Right, please?

Last edited by Crazy Chainsaw; 23rd December 2007 at 07:55 AM. Reason: Correct mistakes in spelling
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Old 23rd December 2007, 07:47 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
I'll wait to see this molehill turned into a truther mountain...and then watch it turn to "dust" just like the rest.

TAM
But Jones has hope!

Quote:
...the microspheres and red chips in the WTC dust -- this new evidence, there is hope of a breakthrough, pending confirmations.
The very same hope that has sustained his other breakthroughs!
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Old 8th January 2008, 11:22 PM   #39
metamars
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Some Details of Red/Gray Chips

Professor Jones has posted the following:

Quote:

Size is typically about 1mm by 1mm, of that order. Largest red chip is about 3 mm long and 2 mm at the widest point. Thickness is shown on the video clip, note the 20 micron scale at the bottom. Red side about 40 microns thick, gray slab about 25 microns thick.

Total thickness is thus about 0.003", 3 mils.

I've been told that mils is thousandths of an inch.

He also previously mentioned that he didn't think the gray side was plastic.
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Old 9th January 2008, 03:33 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Professor Jones has posted the following:

Quote:
Size is typically about 1mm by 1mm, of that order. Largest red chip is about 3 mm long and 2 mm at the widest point. Thickness is shown on the video clip, note the 20 micron scale at the bottom. Red side about 40 microns thick, gray slab about 25 microns thick.

Total thickness is thus about 0.003", 3 mils.
I've been told that mils is thousandths of an inch.

He also previously mentioned that he didn't think the gray side was plastic.
Can somebody please give me a good reason to think this is anything other than paint chips? It's fairly common, when putting two layers of primer on steel, to alternate red and grey coats to be sure of coverage. The thickness sounds about right. It's something one would expect to find in large quantities in the debris from a collapsed steel-framed building. There are various different metals chemically present in paint pigment. Am I missing something obvious here?

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