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Old 10th January 2008, 06:59 AM   #1
ref
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9/11 Truth Movement Merchandise: A Detailed List

As I promised in another thread, here is a detailed version of the merchandise sold by certain members of the truth movement. The list can also be found here: http://911guide.googlepages.com/merchandise

Some observations:
We all knew that Alex Jones was a full blown salesman, but look at the amount of merchandise Robert Balsamo is selling! He has everything from kids hoodies to wall clocks, bags to mugs, magnets to sweaters.

When is David Ray Griffin going to make a short book title?

And what kind of megalomaniacs they all are. Everyone is selling 3 packs, 5 packs, 10 packs, even 100+ packs.

Well, without further talk, here is the list:


Dylan Avery:
  • Loose Change Final Cut DVD $19.95
  • Sleeved Loose Change 2nd Edition DVD Special $9.95
  • Loose Change Trilogy $44.95
  • Loose Change Baseball Cap $14.95
  • Loose Change 'Final Cut' T-Shirt $16.95
  • Loose Change 1st Edition Remastered DVD $14.95
  • Loose Change 2nd Edition Recut DVD $17.95
  • Loose Change 2nd Edition DVD on Spindle (10 Pack) $45.00
  • Loose Change 2nd Edition DVD on Spindle (25 Pack) $100.00
  • Loose Change 2nd Edition DVD on Spindle (50 Pack) $175.00
  • Investigate 9/11 Rubber Stamp $10.95
  • Investigate 911 T-Shirt $16.95
  • Loose Change Final Cut Stream $6.95
  • More Beats of Loose Change CD $14.95
  • LC Soundtrack – The Beats of Loose Change $14.95
  • Remo Conscious, Infiltration $14.95
  • Michael Parker – Phantasmagloria $15.00
  • Investigate 911 T-Sweatshirt (Hoodie) $34.95
  • Loose Change Final Cut Poster $3.45
  • Loose Change Bumper Stickers (10-100 Packs) $8.95
  • German LC Version 10 Pack Spindle $49.50
  • German LC Version 25 Pack Spindle $110.00
  • German LC Version 50 Pack Spindle $192.50
  • Donations of $5, $10, $50, $100, $250 and an amount of choice
http://lc911.com/lc911/home.php




Robert Balsamo:
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 3 (Flight of United 93) DVD $17.95
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 3 DVD Spindle of 10 $70.00
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 3 DVD Spindle of 25 $150.00
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 3 DVD Spindle of 50 $250.00
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 3 DVD Spindle of 100 $400.00
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 2 (Flight of American 77) DVD $15.95
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 2 DVD Spindle of 10 $70.00
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 2 DVD Spindle of 25 $150.00
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 2 DVD Spindle of 50 $250.00
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 2 DVD Spindle of 100 $400.00
  • Pandora's Black Box – Chapter 1 (Analysis of American 77 FDR) DVD $9.95
  • Pilotsfor911Truth.org Presents...Volume 1 DVD $14.95
  • Pilotsfor911Truth.org Presents...Volume II – In 3D $11.95
  • 3 Pack Special DVD $34.95
  • 4 Pack Special DVD $44.95
  • 5 Pack Special DVD $59.95
  • Dark T-Shirt $23.99
  • Women's Plus Size V-Neck Dark T-Shirt $29.99
  • Women's V-Neck Dark T-Shirt $24.99
  • Women's Plus Size Scoop Neck Dark T-Shirt $29.99
  • Long Sleeve Dark T-Shirt $28.99
  • Jr. Hoodie $29.99
  • Jr. Jersey T-Shirt $23.99
  • Long Sleeve T-Shirt $27.99
  • Golf Shirt $23.99
  • Value T-Shirt $13.99
  • Women's Plus Size V-Neck T-Shirt $29.99
  • Women's Plus Size Scoop Neck T-Shirt $29.99
  • Women's T-Shirt $18.99
  • Yellow T-Shirt $22.99
  • Women's Light T-Shirt $19.99
  • Men's Sleeveless Tee $22.99
  • Light T-Shirt $22.99
  • Fitted T-Shirt $23.99
  • White T-Shirt $18.99
  • Hooded Sweatshirt $32.99
  • Women's Long Sleeve T-Shirt $23.99
  • Sweatshirt $29.99
  • Women's V-Neck T-Shirt $20.99
  • Women's Tank Top $19.99
  • Women's Cap Sleeve T-Shirt $20.99
  • Organic Cotton Tee $21.99
  • Kids Sweatshirt $19.99
  • Kids Hoodie $23.99
  • Large Mug $16.99
  • Mug $14.99
  • Wall Clock $17.99
  • Stein $18.99
  • Tote Bag $17.99
  • Cap w/logo $17.99
  • Trucker Hat $15.99
  • Black Cap $18.99
  • Mini Button (10 Pack) $15.99
  • Button $2.75
  • Mini Button $1.99
  • Mini Button (100 Pack) $79.99
  • Magnet $2.75
  • 2.25" Magnet (10 pack) $19.00
  • 2.25" Magnet (100 Pack) $90.00
  • 2.25" Button (10 Pack) $19.00
  • 2.25" Button (100 Pack) $90.00
  • Rectangle Magnet (10 Pack) $19.99
  • Sticker (Oval) $4.49
  • Rectangle Magnet $2.99
  • Rectangle Magnet (100 Pack) $99.99
  • Sticker (Rectangular) $4.49
  • License Plate Frame $14.99
  • Sticker (Bumper) $4.99
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/store.html

http://www.cafepress.com/911pilots



Kevin Barrett:
  • Kevin Barrett's selection of the top ten 9/11 DVDs for a $50 donation
  • Accepts donations of any amount. "Please give generously. The planet you save may be your own."
  • Book "Truth Jihad" Autographed Copy $15
  • Book "Truth Jihad" 3 for $30
  • Book "9/11 And the American Empire" Autographed copy $25.00
  • Book "9/11 And the American Empire" 2 for $40.00
  • Donation amounts range from $5/month to $100/month or $50-$1000/year.
http://www.mujca.com/dvdselection.htm

http://www.mujca.com/whydonate.htm
http://www.mujca.com/truthjihad.htm
http://www.mujca.com/supportmujca.htm
http://www.mujca.com/911empire.htm



Jason Bermas:
  • See Dylan Avery

James "Jim" Fetzer:
  • The Science and Politics of 9/11 – 2007 Conference DVD $25.00
  • Book "The 9/11 Conspiracy" $13.57
http://www.amazon.com/11-Conspiracy-James-H-Fetzer/dp/0812696123/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-6608814-8156848?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174102191&sr=8-1

http://www.avatarproducts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AP-SP911&Category_Code=BMV



Richard Gage:
  • 9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVD 1-9 copies $15.00 each
  • 9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVD 10-24 copies $10.00 each
  • 9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVD 25+ copies $7.00 each
  • Evidence Cards: 1 for $1.00, 2-5 for $0.75 each, 6-19 for $0.50 each, 20-49 for $0.35 each, 50-99 for $0.20 each, 100-499 for $0.15 each and 500+ for $0.10 each
  • Available donation amounts range from $10/month to $911/month. That equals to $120-$10932/year.
  • Sells A/E lunch meetings with accompanying slide presentations. Prices range from $9.00 to $900.00 / any $-amount
  • $100 minimum for one-time donations
  • AE911Truth store will soon also stock: T-Shirts, Bumper Stickers, Vinyl Banners, Books, Other DVDs, Enveloped 9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVDs and Audio CDs
http://www.ae911truth.org/store.php

http://www.ae911truth.org/sustain.php
http://www.ae911truth.org/donate.php?b=mih



David Ray Griffin:
  • Book "Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory" $13.60
  • Book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out, Vol. 1" $12.14
  • Book "Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action" $19.95
  • Book "The 9/11 Report: Omissions and Distortions" $12.24
  • Book "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11" $10.20
  • Soon to be released: Book "9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press" $13.60
  • 9/11 and the American Empire DVD $20.00
  • 9/11: The Myth & The Reality DVD $20.00
  • 9/11 Flights of Fancy: Truth and Politics DVD $17.00
  • 9/11 Flights of Fancy: Truth and Politics DVD 2-5 copies $15.00 each
  • 9/11 Flights of Fancy: Truth and Politics DVD 6-9 copies $14.00 each
  • 9/11 Flights of Fancy: Truth and Politics DVD 10+ copies $13.00 each
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/103-3655829-5581457?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=David%20Ray%20Griffin

http://www.mujca.com/griffindvd.htm
http://www.mujca.com/mythandrealitydvd.htm
http://www.peaceproject.com/books/dvd94.htm



Jim Hoffman:
  • 9/11 Guilt: The Proof Is In Your Hands DVD $12.99
  • 9/11 Guilt: The Proof Is In Your Hands DVD 2 copies $20.00
  • 9/11 Guilt: The Proof Is In Your Hands DVD 3 copies $25.99
  • 9/11 Guilt: The Proof Is In Your Hands DVD 4 copies $30.99
  • 9/11 Guilt: The Proof Is In Your Hands DVD 9-25 copies $10.99 each
  • 9/11 Guilt: The Proof Is In Your Hands DVD 25+ copies negotiable price
  • Lifting The Fog: The Scientific Method Applied to the World Trade Center Disaster DVD $40.00
  • Lifting The Fog (Only the Jim Hoffman section) DVD $15.00
  • Book "Waking Up from the Nightmare: The 9/11/01 Crimes in New York City" $10.00
  • Book "Waking Up from the Nightmare: The 9/11/01 Crimes in New York City" 10-49 copies $8.00 each
  • Book "Waking Up from the Nightmare: The 9/11/01 Crimes in New York City" 50+ copies $5.00 each
  • Accepts any amount of donation
http://www.wireonfire.com/donpaul/911guiltdvd.html

http://communitycurrency.org/911TV/liftingthefog.html
http://www.wireonfire.com/donpaul/dpwnbk.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/re911/contribute.html



Alex Jones:
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement DVD $19.95
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement Truthseeker Combo Special pack $29.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement Unravel the New World Order pack $34.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement Expose Elite Evil Combo Special $29.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement Freedom Road Map Combo Special $29.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement Knowledge Is Power Combo Special $29.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement Infowars Music CD Combo $24.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement Stop the Globalist Game Plan Special $39.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement DVD 10 pack $109.50
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement + Loose Change Final Cut DVDs $34.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement DVD 2 pack $34.90
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement DVD 3 pack $44.85
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement DVD 4 pack $55.80
  • Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement DVD 5 pack $64.75
  • Infowars Music CD $9.95
  • Terrorstorm Special Edition DVD $19.95
  • Terrorstorm VHS $10.00
  • False Flag Terror 101 DVD Special $34.95
  • Police State Trilogy DVD $34.95
  • Police State Trilogy VHS $30.00
  • Infowars Classics DVD Special $99.00
  • Four DVD Blowout Special $60.95
  • Martial Law 9/11: The Rise of the Police State DVD $19.95
  • Martial Law 9/11: The Rise of the Police State DVD 2 pack $34.90
  • Martial Law 9/11: The Rise of the Police State DVD 3 pack $44.80
  • Martial Law 9/11: The Rise of the Police State DVD 10 pack $140.00
  • Martial Law 9/11: The Rise of the Police State VHS $10.00
  • Order of Death & Dark Secrets Combo DVD $24.95
  • Order of Death & Dark Secrets Combo VHS $10.00
  • 9/11: The Road to Tyranny DVD $19.95
  • 9/11: The Road to Tyranny VHS $10.00
  • The Masters of Terror DVD $19.95
  • The Masters of Terror VHS $10.00
  • Matrix of Evil DVD $19.95
  • Matrix of Evil VHS $10.00
  • Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports Exposed DVD $19.95
  • Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports Exposed VHS $10.00
  • America: Destroyed by Design $19.95
  • American Dictators DVD $19.95
  • American Dictators DVD 2 pack $25.95
  • American Dictators DVD 3 pack $31.95
  • American Dictators DVD 4 pack $37.95
  • American Dictators DVD 5 pack $43.95
  • American Dictators VHS $10.00
  • American Dictators VHS 2 pack $20.00
  • American Dictators VHS 3 pack $30.00
  • American Dictators VHS 4 pack $40.00
  • American Dictators VHS 5 pack $50.00
  • Police State 2000 DVD $19.95
  • Police State 2000 VHS $10.00
  • Police State II: The Takeover DVD $19.95
  • Police State II: The Takeover VHS $10.00
  • Police State III: Total Enslavement DVD $19.95
  • Police State III: Total Enslavement VHS $10.00
  • Book "Descent Into Tyranny" Signed Edition $15.00
  • Book "Descent Into Tyranny" Unsigned Edition $12.00
  • Any 3 Tape Special $50.85
  • Any 4 Tape Special $67.80
  • Any 5 Tape Special $84.75
  • Any 6 Tape Special $101.70
  • Any 7 Tape Special $118.65
  • Any 8 Tape Special $135.60
  • Any 9 Tape Special $152.55
  • Tyranny Response Team T-Shirt $16.95
  • Mass Murdeders Agree: Gun Control Works T-Shirt $16.95
  • Loose Change Final Cut DVD $19.95
  • Loose Change Final Cut DVD 2 pack $39.90
  • Loose Change Final Cut DVD 3 pack $59.85
  • Loose Change Final Cut DVD 4 pack $79.80
  • Loose Change Final Cut DVD 5 pack $99.75
  • Loose Change Final Cut DVD 10 pack $195.00
http://infowars-shop.stores.yahoo.net/videos.html


+ Dozens of other items by various authors
http://infowars-shop.stores.yahoo.net/test.html



William Rodriguez:
  • What Really Happened on 9/11? DVD $15.00
  • Signed Photograph taken by William for a Donation of $15.00
  • Accepts donations of any amount
http://www.william911.com/store.html



Korey Rowe:
  • See Dylan Avery
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Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

Last edited by ref; 10th January 2008 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:06 AM   #2
GStan
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Man, the truth is expensive! Guess I'll just have to go on believing the free lies of the NWO.

Good work Ref.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:08 AM   #3
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I think cafepress is seasonal in their merchandise. Either that or the list is incomplete.. Because you missed the most classic PFT item of all.. THE BBQ APRON!


http://www.cafepress.com/911pilots.96981588
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:09 AM   #4
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Wow. I did not know there were so many "truth" items. So am I to understand that I cannot learn the truth without paying?
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:10 AM   #5
Horace Wheeljack
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Kevin Barrett is falling behind the others in the merchandise range. He could have a self-assembly garden gallows, a Mark Roberts voodoo doll, truther nipple clamps...

He needs to get me on board.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:12 AM   #6
MikeW
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Nicely done!

I'd remove the "10 month year" comment, though. Barrett is using it like this:

Quote:
MUJCA BENEFACTOR: $100/month or $1,000 annually
He's just saying you get to be a "benefactor" for the monthly $100 payment, or $1000 if you agree to pay annually - it's a discount to tempt people into paying more up-front. I doubt very much that it'll work with anyone at all, but it's not saying there are ten months in a year.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:19 AM   #7
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My life is complete - I have ordered the Beer Stein, coffee cup and wall clock of truth.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:20 AM   #8
ref
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Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
Nicely done!

I'd remove the "10 month year" comment, though. Barrett is using it like this:



He's just saying you get to be a "benefactor" for the monthly $100 payment, or $1000 if you agree to pay annually - it's a discount to tempt people into paying more up-front. I doubt very much that it'll work with anyone at all, but it's not saying there are ten months in a year.
I already removed the comment in the editing process I just forgot it there. It was a quick comment for myself as I was doing the list. I noticed the error. But thanks!
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:23 AM   #9
ref
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Originally Posted by Anti-sophist View Post
I think cafepress is seasonal in their merchandise. Either that or the list is incomplete.. Because you missed the most classic PFT item of all.. THE BBQ APRON!

http://images.cafepress.com/product/...x240_Front.jpg
http://www.cafepress.com/911pilots.96981588
Oh damn! That item wasn't listed at the moment. That's an instant classic
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:24 AM   #10
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In the interest of fair and balanced reporting, you can pick up a copy of "Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts" for $9.32 from Amazon. There are about ten items on your list cheaper than that.

Dave
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Last edited by Dave Rogers; 10th January 2008 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:25 AM   #11
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Wow. Makes you kind of wonder where the market is for the moon-bat crazy nonsense of a dead movement.

Isn't the debunking having any kind of effect? Whoís buying all this stuff? I know I have never bought any of it. I donít think I have ever even completely watched loose change all the way through and what I have seen of it was off the internet for free.

Now the History channel just ran their little special where they have some frauds from PM come in and purport to debunk 9/11 like in the book they sell on Amazon. They even call them experts though they are clearly not experts at anything.

I wonder how much advertising time they sell every time itís on. Because you know TV is where the big bucks are.

Last edited by LastChild; 10th January 2008 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:29 AM   #12
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Was there a point to your post, or are you merely trolling, yet again?
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:36 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Wow. Makes you kind of wonder where the market is for the moon-bat crazy nonsense of a dead movement.


~0.1% of ~300 000 000 Americans is still 300 000 suckers.


The Interwebs, Home of The Niche Market: Making Charlatans Rich For Over a Decade!
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:40 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by TheRedWorm View Post
Was there a point to your post, or are you merely trolling, yet again?
Actually it was a question. Isn't the debunking movement having an effect even when they get to air multiple times worldwide on the History Channel?
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:42 AM   #15
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Ref,

That's quite a list and quite a lot of work. Good job.

I trust all proceeds from the sale of Truther merchandise go to support the NWO - one way or another.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Actually it was a question. Isn't the debunking movement having an effect even when they get to air multiple times worldwide on the History Channel?
Several polls have shown that debunkers seem to be having a mild effect. Many of the people who believe in these theories do not honestly seek the truth, so you can only expect to 'convert' a limited number.

The truth movement's 2007 statistics are low though, and without a new 'smoking gun' for people to get involved with it seems they have hit their population saturation or close.

edit: Ref, if you have the time could you put together a list of debunking materials / debates etc sold and whether they are directly or indirectly sold / non profit etc.

Last edited by e^n; 10th January 2008 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 10th January 2008, 07:47 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Actually it was a question. Isn't the debunking movement having an effect even when they get to air multiple times worldwide on the History Channel?

"Debunking movement?" Wow, I'll just let that comment speak for itself. As to the other part, I would have to say that yes, debunkers do have an effect on the so called "truth movement." How many idiotic "theories" have been dropped? Pods, SPACE BEAMS! "Squibs," No planes, etc. It is no wonder you are afraid to lay out your beliefs on this forum.
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Last edited by TheRedWorm; 10th January 2008 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 10th January 2008, 08:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Isn't the debunking having any kind of effect? Whoís buying all this stuff?
considering that dylan is trying to unload 50 packs of the old version of hismovie and alex jones is trying to blow out VHS copies of stuff, id say no ones buying it, thats why its still for sale
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Old 10th January 2008, 08:18 AM   #19
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I'm still waiting for Judy Wood's "build your own space beam" kit.
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Old 10th January 2008, 08:27 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
considering that dylan is trying to unload 50 packs of the old version of hismovie and alex jones is trying to blow out VHS copies of stuff, id say no ones buying it, thats why its still for sale
Well then he must have some awesome credit to be able to have all that stuff produced and packaged even though it's all supposedly based on total nonsense. I wonder if I go down to the bank and tell them I need to get my Bigfoot from outer space documentary financed and distributed how much they'll fork over to me? Any investors out there? LOL
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Old 10th January 2008, 08:33 AM   #21
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[quote=LastChild;3322354]
Now the History channel just ran their little special where they have some frauds from PM come in and purport to debunk 9/11 like in the book they sell on Amazon. They even call them experts though they are clearly not experts at anything.

QUOTE]

Since you think they are frauds that must mean you don't beleive the debunkers. The only logical conclusion is that you side with the CT's.

Maybe if you knew what you were talking about you would have known that PM talked to people who do know what they are talking about. Who on the CT side knows what they are talking about? David Ray Griffin, a retired theology proffesor who spent his life in academia. The same guy who repeats one lie or half truth after another and tries to pass them off as fact. Jim Ftezer who does the same thing. Or Kevin Barrett, where do we start with him.
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Old 10th January 2008, 08:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Well then he must have some awesome credit to be able to have all that stuff produced and packaged even though it's all supposedly based on total nonsense. I wonder if I go down to the bank and tell them I need to get my Bigfoot from outer space documentary financed and distributed how much they'll fork over to me? Any investors out there? LOL
oh yeah, you need 100% facts to burn dvds all day
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Old 10th January 2008, 08:49 AM   #23
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Is he still here, agitating like a house fly? put him on Ignore AMTMAN, he isn't worth the aggrevation.

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Old 10th January 2008, 08:56 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Well then he must have some awesome credit to be able to have all that stuff produced and packaged even though it's all supposedly based on total nonsense. I wonder if I go down to the bank and tell them I need to get my Bigfoot from outer space documentary financed and distributed how much they'll fork over to me? Any investors out there? LOL
He claims to have sold thousands of copies of LC. At $19 each, that would have given him a pretty substantial bankroll.

As far as I know, the DVDs are all burned (not pressed) so that wouldn't require a substantial investment (about 20 cents apice). Not sure whether the shirts were pre-produced or if they're of the cafe press variety. The latter requires zero investment since they can be produced as they are ordered.

I don't think LTW has any direct "investors" other than Dylan, Korey and Jason.
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Old 10th January 2008, 08:58 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post

I wonder how much advertising time they sell every time itís on. Because you know TV is where the big bucks are.
The same TV that you love to quote when it suits your agenda.
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Old 10th January 2008, 09:01 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Wow. Makes you kind of wonder where the market is for the moon-bat crazy nonsense of a dead movement.

Isn't the debunking having any kind of effect? Whoís buying all this stuff? I know I have never bought any of it. I donít think I have ever even completely watched loose change all the way through and what I have seen of it was off the internet for free.

Now the History channel just ran their little special where they have some frauds from PM come in and purport to debunk 9/11 like in the book they sell on Amazon. They even call them experts though they are clearly not experts at anything.

I wonder how much advertising time they sell every time itís on. Because you know TV is where the big bucks are.
Except that when you look at it, most of the big debunkers aren't in it for the money. They probably represent the search for truth far better then the "truth" movement, whose big players seem to be capitalising off the fools.

But please, tell us how the people from PM couldn't be considered experts?

Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
~0.1% of ~300 000 000 Americans is still 300 000 suckers.


The Interwebs, Home of The Niche Market: Making Charlatans Rich For Over a Decade!
You mean like this?
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Old 10th January 2008, 10:20 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by AMTMAN View Post
Since you think they are frauds that must mean you don't beleive the debunkers. The only logical conclusion is that you side with the CT's.
I don't remember any CT's being referred to as experts on the History channel.

Originally Posted by AMTMAN View Post
Maybe if you knew what you were talking about you would have known that PM talked to people who do know what they are talking about.
Well maybe the ones they consulted with should have been the ones on the History Channel. Not some publicist fraud. Unless of course they couldn't get any of the actual experts to come on and assert that their opinions and theories were fact. Ya think?

Originally Posted by AMTMAN View Post
Who on the CT side knows what they are talking about? David Ray Griffin, a retired theology proffesor who spent his life in academia.
What are Meigs or Coburn Professors in? What have they spent their life in? Why don't you try to find that for me?

Originally Posted by AMTMAN View Post
The same guy who repeats one lie or half truth after another and tries to pass them off as fact. Jim Ftezer who does the same thing. Or Kevin Barrett, where do we start with him.
I don't remember any of them being referred to as experts on the History channel. So tell me why is Meigs more of an expert then any of them?
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Old 10th January 2008, 10:30 AM   #28
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Does he seriously think people are buying the stuff?

Hey man, I have some swamp land for YOU!
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Old 10th January 2008, 11:32 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless View Post
Does he seriously think people are buying the stuff?

Hey man, I have some swamp land for YOU!
The simplicity of the 'truther' mind. Just because they offer something for sale online it follows that they must have warehouses full of this tat in order to keep up with demand.
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Old 10th January 2008, 11:36 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless View Post
Does he seriously think people are buying the stuff?

Hey man, I have some swamp land for YOU!
So he's not really selling anything? Thank you.

Now how about the History channel or PM. Have they made any money on purporting to debunk 911 conspiracies?

About that swamp land... why would I want it back?
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Old 10th January 2008, 11:47 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
I don't remember any of them being referred to as experts on the History channel. So tell me why is Meigs more of an expert then any of them?
Meigs is an expert on 911 conspiracy theories. Who else would you give such a title to, and why?

ETA: In the HC documentary, Meigs /Coburn were expressing the collective opinion of their some-300 experts. So, in a way, they didn't have to be experts in their own right, they just had to relay the response of the experts. In fact, they usually say something like "we talked to the experts, and they say....". I'm sure that was a lot easier than having the history channel producers track down and set up interviews with all 300 experts who gave responses to PM.
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Old 10th January 2008, 12:04 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
So he's not really selling anything? Thank you.

Now how about the History channel or PM. Have they made any money on purporting to debunk 911 conspiracies?

About that swamp land... why would I want it back?
Which is it?

Yep, you buy what you want. You have a point, and the History Channel does do bigfoot as if it were real, and UFOs, and other crazy junk. Some of their shows are as bad as 9/11 truth! The history channel usually says the stuff maybe lies so beware, they put it another way - but it is a red flag for crazy ideas; they are so polite!

But 9/11 truth has zero fact and evidence to support their conclusions they sell. You agree by not presenting any facts or evidence to support 9/11 truth, they are a bunch of liars and misinformation merchants. So they are a fraud. At least the History channel gives you the weak warning, this could be idiots speaking, in polite prose.

The point is, fact less information is sold to idiots, buyer beware. You are safe, you are too smart to fall for the lies of 9/11 truth.
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Old 10th January 2008, 12:09 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
Meigs is an expert on 911 conspiracy theories. Who else would you give such a title to, and why?
You are dodging. How is Meigs anymore an expert to point to as evidence that someone for example like DRG is wrong?

Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
ETA: In the HC documentary, Meigs /Coburn were expressing the collective opinion of their some-300 experts. So, in a way, they didn't have to be experts in their own right, they just had to relay the response of the experts.
And the truth movement has experts of their own in every field that back up things they claim. It's debated. It's opinion and theory not fact. The difference is you can get the truther experts to show their face.

Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
In fact, they usually say something like "we talked to the experts, and they say....". I'm sure that was a lot easier than having the history channel producers track down and set up interviews with all 300 experts who gave responses to PM.
Apparently it was too difficult to even track down one of them. I mean if there is so many of them why do they need Meigs to assert their opinion for them? And did he assert it as just an opinion?
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Old 10th January 2008, 12:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
You are dodging. How is Meigs anymore an expert to point to as evidence that someone for example like DRG is wrong?
Because he's researched and debunked DRG's claims and can say "DRG is wrong because the experts say X".

Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
And the truth movement has experts of their own in every field that back up things they claim. It's debated. It's opinion and theory not fact. The difference is you can get the truther experts to show their face.
The TM has experts in Controlled Demolition that back up the claim of explosives in WTC 1 & 2? Who might those experts be?

Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Apparently it was too difficult to even track down one of them. I mean if there is so many of them why do they need Meigs to assert their opinion for them? And did he assert it as just an opinion?
Meigs/Coburn were not the only experts that the history channel interviewed. Be sure to watch the entire piece.

ETA: You keep dodging my question:

Who would you consider an "expert" on 911 conspiracy theories?
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Old 10th January 2008, 12:16 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
So he's not really selling anything? Thank you.

Now how about the History channel or PM. Have they made any money on purporting to debunk 911 conspiracies?

About that swamp land... why would I want it back?
I hope they made a packet!

You see what you don't get is that your lot are supposed to be fighting for truth and justice and are supposed to be putting their whole life into proving that 9-11 woz an inside jobby. They should be giving this stuff away for free and if that means selling the house and car and living in a cardboard box in the ozarks, then so be it. Apparently the future of your country depends on 'truth'.

Whereas PM represent the status quo. They are providing an easily understandable narrative to answer questions people may have about 9-11. It really doesn't matter whether there are conspiracy theories or not. But there is a market for the pop.mech book and, since they're not out to change the world for the sake of mankind, there's nothing wrong with them being rewarded for their efforts.
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Old 10th January 2008, 12:22 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
And the truth movement has experts of their own in every field that back up things they claim. It's debated. It's opinion and theory not fact.

Creationist: And the creationist movement has experts of their own in every field that back up things they claim. It's debated. It's opinion and theory not fact.
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Old 10th January 2008, 12:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
You are dodging. How is Meigs anymore an expert to point to as evidence that someone for example like DRG is wrong?



And the truth movement has experts of their own in every field that back up things they claim. It's debated. It's opinion and theory not fact. The difference is you can get the truther experts to show their face.



Apparently it was too difficult to even track down one of them. I mean if there is so many of them why do they need Meigs to assert their opinion for them? And did he assert it as just an opinion?
This argument is the silly. The History Channel can can present anything they wish. The side they take is theirs. What's your point? Is it that a TV documentary can do damage to your movement? Live with it or try to strengthen your arguments. If your point was as strong as you guys claim this show would not bother you one bit. The fact it does only shows how weak your arguments actually are.
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Old 10th January 2008, 01:17 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
This argument is the silly. The History Channel can can present anything they wish. The side they take is theirs. What's your point? Is it that a TV documentary can do damage to your movement? Live with it or try to strengthen your arguments. If your point was as strong as you guys claim this show would not bother you one bit. The fact it does only shows how weak your arguments actually are.
Oh I wouldn't put too much faith in the belief that the History Channel is on your side just because of what they aired. You can watch something like "The men who killed Kennedy and then a show that purports proof by computer animation that Oswald acted alone back to back in the same day on the History channel. Itís no different then claiming Jowenko is on your side because of what he says about the towers while ignoring his opinion on WTC7. Or pointing to Van Romero's pressured revisionism a few days after 9/11 as opposed to his first impression expert opinion while knowing he was later given an appointment by the Bush administration.

Last edited by LastChild; 10th January 2008 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 10th January 2008, 01:21 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by LastChild View Post
Oh I wouldn't put too much faith in the belief that the History Channel is on your side just because of what they aired. You can watch something like "The men who killed Kennedy and then a show that purports proof by computer animation that Oswald acted alone back to back in the same day on the History channel. Itís no different then claiming Jowenko is on your side because of what he says about the towers while ignoring his opinion on WTC7. Or pointing to Van Romero's pressured revisionism a few days after 9/11 as opposed to his first impression expert opinion while knowing he was later given an appointment by the Bush administration.
Are you responding to my post? I sure doesn't seem like it.

So why is the "truth" movement so threatened by this documentary?
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Old 10th January 2008, 01:27 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
Because he's researched and debunked DRG's claims and can say "DRG is wrong because the experts say X".
He hasn't debunked anything. And you're not answering. Has DRG not researched 9/11 and done it longer then Meigs?

Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
The TM has experts in Controlled Demolition that back up the claim of explosives in WTC 1 & 2? Who might those experts be?
The Debunkers do? I hope you're not going to point to another magazine editor/amateur photographer as a demolition expert are you? Do I need to point out that Hugh Hefner isn't a centerfold?

Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
Meigs/Coburn were not the only experts that the history channel interviewed. Be sure to watch the entire piece.
Really? Got any names? It's hard to remember too many nobodies.

Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
ETA: You keep dodging my question:
Who would you consider an "expert" on 911 conspiracy theories?
I don't know that there is any such thing. But I do know if there is that Meigs is no more an expert or researcher then anyone in the truth movement.
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