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Does JREF have an opinion on Bio feedback?

godofpie

Chief Cook & Bottle Washer
godofpie
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
950
In the 70's, when I was a teenager, I went to a psychiatrist that taught me how to do biofeedback relaxation techniques. My parents were afraid the aspirin I was taking for migraines would eat up my stomach (and it eventually did). The doctor told me that I was able to lower the temperature in my left hand by several degrees by the time I finished his program, although I can't remember if I saw any proof of this or not. My father learned self hypnosis, which is similar to biofeedback, to control his high blood pressure. Does the JREF consider these to be woo medicine and if the answer is yes, why? I am new here but have been reading the forums for a couple of months now and I am trying to become more of a critical thinker. Thanks.
 
I learned some methods. I couldn't lower my hypertension, but I can raise the temp of my hands 4 f, from their norm of 91. I used a digital fever thermometer to show the temp. Deep breathing, concentrate on feeling your pulse in your hands.

And I seem to be able to stave off some migraines by willing myself to RAISE my blood pressure- I get the migraines when I am relaxed, after the stress.

So there is some semi-conscious control of some bodily functions.

But I severed my median nerve as a teen. I have burnt and blistered my numb fingers without knowing that the wire I was holding had gotten red hot. No mental input needed there. So bio-feedback can't help everything.

I do doubt that you can ever make yourself fly, like the mahareeesha claims. Gravity does it's thing with no need of your mental input.
 
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Last Autumn I was diagnosed with hypertension - my blood pressure was typically around 175/104 - bearing in mind that my blood pressure was always measured in the surgery and I have a moderate case of white-coat phobia which means that my pulse races whan I walk past an ice-cream man ;) . But I have a family history of hypertension - my father died from hypertensive heart disease and my mother has had a number of heart attacks and a triple bypass - so something had to be done.

My doctor intially tried me on an ACE inhibitor with no effect then switched to amlodipine, initially 5mg daily. This had no effect so my doctor increased the dosage. I mentioned that it didn't help that I break into a cold sweat whenever I go into his surgery and he said I should buy a cheap sphygmomanometer (Blood pressure monitor) and monitor my own BP at home. I did this and found that my BP, when I was at home was usually around 140/90 (compared to 160/100 at the surgery).

However, if I concentrate on relaxing when I measure my BP, and take three or four readings over the space of about five minutes I have found that I can gradually bring it down from around 135/86, which it normally is to around 125/83 and, on occasion as low as 117/80. (My wife maintains that this is too low and I should stop the medication but I'll stick with it for the moment).

I imagine this would qualify as a form of bio-feedback as I have to actively concentrate on relaxing to bring the BP to the low levels.
 
As the official JREF opinion dispenser ;) , I don't see anything woo about biofeedback. You're just using it to help you relax, right? Not to cure your cancer, or your mom's cancer.

I haven't studied it, but when I walk up to one of those machines where you stick in your arm and measure your heart rate and blood pressure, I try to relax to get my heart rate down. No prep time, just walk up and measure. I'm trying to get my heart rate to be below my age, and I'm pretty close now!

53 bpm, 46 years old.
 
CurtC said:
As the official JREF opinion dispenser ;) , I don't see anything woo about biofeedback. You're just using it to help you relax, right? Not to cure your cancer, or your mom's cancer.

I haven't studied it, but when I walk up to one of those machines where you stick in your arm and measure your heart rate and blood pressure, I try to relax to get my heart rate down. No prep time, just walk up and measure. I'm trying to get my heart rate to be below my age, and I'm pretty close now!

53 bpm, 46 years old.
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No, just to relax. No cancer curing here. It's always nice to meet one the higher ups in JREF. I thought you would look smarter?
 
casebro said:
I learned some methods. I couldn't lower my hypertension, but I can raise the temp of my hands 4 f, from their norm of 91. I used a digital fever thermometer to show the temp. Deep breathing, concentrate on feeling your pulse in your hands.

And I seem to be able to stave off some migraines by willing myself to RAISE my blood pressure- I get the migraines when I am relaxed, after the stress.

So there is some semi-conscious control of some bodily functions.

But I severed my median nerve as a teen. I have burnt and blistered my numb fingers without knowing that the wire I was holding had gotten red hot. No mental input needed there. So bio-feedback can't help everything.

I do doubt that you can ever make yourself fly, like the mahareeesha claims. Gravity does it's thing with no need of your mental input.
Click to expand...
I said lower the temperature in my hand-I meant raise, sorry. Do you understand the science behind that ability? I was taught to repeat the phrase "my left arm is heavy and relaxed" over and over again in my mind. I would be interested to learn the whys of that phenomenon.
 
As the term implies, biofeedback involves monitoring some biological process to get feedback about whether whatever you are doing is working. It works in some cases, but may be more difficult with functions controlled by the autonomic nervous system. This may help http://psychotherapy.com/bio.html
 
godofpie said:
I said lower the temperature in my hand-I meant raise, sorry. Do you understand the science behind that ability? I was taught to repeat the phrase "my left arm is heavy and relaxed" over and over again in my mind. I would be interested to learn the whys of that phenomenon.
Click to expand...

I got interested in a attempt to lower my BP. Read several library books (remember those?) plus had a brother go through Werner Erhardts umm LGAT. " The Forum". Psych can be entertaining, as any stage hypnotist knows. Anyhow, the gist is to become aware of your body. Since you were a child you had learned to ignore your pulse, so you can start there. Take some deep breaths while staring at some fixed point- 'watch the watch', or a spot on the wall, and try to become aware of your pulse in your hand. Anyway, the warming hand is a sign that you can mentally control some physical properties of your body. I can't help my BP, because I've had it my whole life, and apparently my arteries are hardnened. They get rigid, and don't flex enough to function at lower pressure- pills make me light headed at anything lower than about 140. Migraines. I have been as high as 240.

The relaxation did once help me remember the combination to a safe that I had not opened in six years. Pych IS fun.

LGATs are interesting. Large Group Awareness Programs. Like the Forum, or Scientology, or other religions. Basically they hypnotize you, and tell you how good they are for you. And 'suggest' you into donating. The looong boring 'sermons' are a major part of the sessions. Those are like staring at the spot on the wall. Apparently boredom can make you more susceptible to suggestions. That is when the entertainment ends, and the manipulation starts. Basically, we all want to become superman. It's only your psyche holding you back. Just watch the watch, you're getting heavy....

Pay-Pal accepted.


ETA: Its LGAT, Large Group Awareness TRAINING". Lots of hits now. I just now editing the P out of my earlier post.
 
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Jeff Corey said:
As the term implies, biofeedback involves monitoring some biological process to get feedback about whether whatever you are doing is working. It works in some cases, but may be more difficult with functions controlled by the autonomic nervous system. This may help http://psychotherapy.com/bio.html
Click to expand...
Thanks Jeff, that was very educational. I was hooked up to a machine that produced a tone I listened to through head phones and red, yellow and green lights that I controlled with my relaxation. It looks like the short answer is that they don't specifically know how biofeedback works.
 
godofpie said:
Thanks Jeff, that was very educational. I was hooked up to a machine that produced a tone I listened to through head phones and red, yellow and green lights that I controlled with my relaxation. It looks like the short answer is that they don't specifically know how biofeedback works.
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You're welcome. It's nice to get some nice responses once in a while
Well behaviorists do. When you throw a dart, using your "voluntary" nervous-muscular system, you get all sorts of feedback about your accuracy. We don't normally get that with our "involuntary" nervous system. Adding the extra feedback allows us to control more of that behavior. Within limits, of course.
 
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casebro said:
I got interested in a attempt to lower my BP. Read several library books (remember those?) plus had a brother go through Werner Erhardts umm LGAT. " The Forum". Psych can be entertaining, as any stage hypnotist knows. Anyhow, the gist is to become aware of your body. Since you were a child you had learned to ignore your pulse, so you can start there. Take some deep breaths while staring at some fixed point- 'watch the watch', or a spot on the wall, and try to become aware of your pulse in your hand. Anyway, the warming hand is a sign that you can mentally control some physical properties of your body. I can't help my BP, because I've had it my whole life, and apparently my arteries are hardnened. They get rigid, and don't flex enough to function at lower pressure- pills make me light headed at anything lower than about 140. Migraines. I have been as high as 240.

The relaxation did once help me remember the combination to a safe that I had not opened in six years. Pych IS fun.

LGATs are interesting. Large Group Awareness Programs. Like the Forum, or Scientology, or other religions. Basically they hypnotize you, and tell you how good they are for you. And 'suggest' you into donating. The looong boring 'sermons' are a major part of the sessions. Those are like staring at the spot on the wall. Apparently boredom can make you more susceptible to suggestions. That is when the entertainment ends, and the manipulation starts. Basically, we all want to become superman. It's only your psyche holding you back. Just watch the watch, you're getting heavy....

Pay-Pal accepted.


ETA: Its LGAT, Large Group Awareness TRAINING". Lots of hits now. I just now editing the P out of my earlier post.
Click to expand...
Pay pal-now thats funny. The only thing keeping from riding that gravy train is an ethical repulsion to taking advantage of others. I once had a young guy working for me who was getting ready to begin as a missionary overseas. I told him about my religion "Mouryism" and all the great things it was going to do for humanity. I had him eating out of my hand, I couldn't believe how easily swayed he was. I let him off the hook by telling him it was going to cost him $100 to join.
 
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