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Tags bigfoot , native american myths

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Old 10th January 2009, 02:18 PM   #961
makaya325
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Well, Kitz, imho, The mask shows things that are common in non-human primates, such as the nostrils, lips, eyes, etc. Kitz, did you ever look at the native american masks?
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Old 10th January 2009, 03:25 PM   #962
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Is it bigfoot or Mr. Bill?


m



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Old 10th January 2009, 03:33 PM   #963
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Well, Kitz, imho, The mask shows things that are common in non-human primates, such as the nostrils, lips, eyes, etc.
This is just not sinking in.

Your * and * my * opinion * is * not * important *

It has things that are not common at all. A big fat horizontal line under the nose. Vertical lines running down the face. Where's the hair? Lots of masks depict furry hairy things with something meant to simulate the effect.

You have done no research into that mask. You have nothing to make it a depiction of Bigfoot other than your opinion influenced by that of a highly eccentric (and gifted) Polish artist. We don't deal in the commodity of opinions here. Substance through investigation and fact establishment. If those people who made the mask are telling you it's Bigfoot then there's something. It doesn't become designated that way because of the wishes of Bigfoot enthusiasts. Why don't you try researching it? Why is it hard to get you guys to do that? I'm telling you the importance of it and three times now you shirk it off and repeat your opinions. I'm sorry if it comes off as harsh but it means squat when dealing with cultural artefacts such as this.

Quote:
Kitz, did you ever look at the native american masks?
I won't even tell you again to read the thread. Just go to the beginning and start hopping through pages scrolling down as fast as you like. When ever you see a mask just slam on the breaks and read away.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 10th January 2009 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 10th January 2009, 03:38 PM   #964
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Well, kitz, the mask is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of squatch. You have spoke with many indians, you claim, and most dont think squatch never existed? Not one indian said its real as a bear?
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Old 10th January 2009, 04:22 PM   #965
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Guess us native Americans have magic powers to know about all animals, even hundreds of years removed from living very close to nature.

I just asked my spirit guild. The falcon told me there are no bigfoot.
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Old 10th January 2009, 07:00 PM   #966
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Guess us native Americans have magic powers.
<snip>
I traded my magic powers for a house in the suburbs...
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Old 11th January 2009, 01:48 PM   #967
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Ty, are you native american? My tribe, hoopas, KNOW the sasquatch exists, however, if you want to, talk to them, not me
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Old 11th January 2009, 03:32 PM   #968
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What is the Hoopa word for Sasquatch ?
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Old 11th January 2009, 04:53 PM   #969
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Ty, are you native american? My tribe, hoopas, KNOW the sasquatch exists, however, if you want to, talk to them, not me
Yeah, I know how white I look, but included in the mutt mix that is my family tree are enough Seneca to call myself that.

At any rate, do the Hoopas KNOW that sasquatch exists or are they anachronistically attributing past stories to them? There are many, many well documented cases of contemporary attitudes coloring ideas of the past. For example, native dances. It happens a lot in martial arts as well.
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Old 11th January 2009, 08:05 PM   #970
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Dio, its Oh-mah, or "boss of the woods"
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Old 11th January 2009, 08:07 PM   #971
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Yes, the Hoopas regard bigfoot as a regular animal rather than a spirit. Ty, do you have any legends about the big man?
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Old 11th January 2009, 08:28 PM   #972
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Dio, its Oh-mah, or "boss of the woods"
Good.
Now you can show documentation that demonstrates Oh-mah is ( traditionally ) believed to be a real flesh and blood hominid, rather than a boogey-man type of myth, used to frighten children, or jazz up a camp-fire smoking session.

I can't seem to find anything about Oh-ma, apart from Bigfoot proponent sources.
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Old 11th January 2009, 08:29 PM   #973
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In this very thread I explained how the Seneca story of the stone giants, claimed to be a bigfoot legend, is absolutely nothing of the sort. I also provided the links to show that I didn't just make that up.

Seriously, read the thread. It's a good one.
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Old 11th January 2009, 10:40 PM   #974
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OMG sombody just had to say boss of the woods. Damn now Kitakaze will be posting boss of the wood this, boss of the woods that, boss of the woods the other thing for the next six weeks. Oh-Mah aching head!
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Old 12th January 2009, 12:06 PM   #975
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Dio, its Oh-mah, or "boss of the woods"
Mayaka, I think you are misinformed about your own culture on this point. Oh-Mah is not any type of correlary for Bigfoot. I have researched the Boss of the Woods Oh-Mah extensively early in this thread. You are talking about a supernatural being. A sorcerer/devil type figure of the creeks said to have magic poisoned and burnt flint arrows. These arrows would sometimes fall into the hands of humans who would then become devils themselves and practice black magic.

Please check my research:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...27#post3389527

All correlations to Bigfoot are from Bigfoot enthusiast sources who have an agenda in not presenting the factual historical information.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 12th January 2009, 01:13 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Mayaka, I think you are misinformed about your own culture on this point.
Yep - he does not even call his own people by the right name.

"Hoopa" is the Valley and the name of the reserve.

"Hupa" is what the people call themselves.
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Old 12th January 2009, 01:39 PM   #977
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Yep - he does not even call his own people by the right name.

"Hoopa" is the Valley and the name of the reserve.

"Hupa" is what the people call themselves.
Many tribes call themselves by different names than they used to, so I don't think this is a valid criticism.
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:12 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Many tribes call themselves by different names than they used to, so I don't think this is a valid criticism.
As is made many times clear in this thread (and the case of the Oh-Mah clearly showing), transliterations of various place names and figures of indigenous North American peoples is subject to great variation.

It should be noted that the Hupa people were traditionally known as the Natinixwe (nah-tin-oh-way). Rock is correct in noting that the most widely used spelling is "Hupa" but I don't think we can judge "Hoopa" to be any real kind of error.

I will soon prepare an email to send to an online Hupa group to seek any insight regarding Oh-Mah and possible connections to Bigfoot.

http://bss.sfsu.edu/calstudies/hupa/HISTORYNEW.HTM
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 12th January 2009 at 02:14 PM. Reason: link
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:16 PM   #979
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Rocket, I spent time in the hoopa valley on a reservation, when i was young. Im now 18, moved to long island from california.

Oh-mah is a beast. However, I personally have visited other reservations. When i mention the sasquatch's existence, all of the indians told me "Why has the white man been realizing this now? We have known it was real before colombus even set foot on our land!". His message sent chills up my spine

Last edited by makaya325; 12th January 2009 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:19 PM   #980
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Dio, why dont you meet with a local tribe and discuss the boss?
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:26 PM   #981
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Rocket, I spent time in the hoopa valley on a reservation, when i was young. Im now 18, moved to long island from california.

Oh-mah is a beast. However, I personally have visited other reservations. When i mention the sasquatch's existence, all of the indians told me "Why has the white man been realizing this now? We have known it was real before colombus even set foot on our land!". His message sent chills up my spine
This is remaniscent of the oft-recycled Bigfoot enthusiast anecdote about the white man who seeks knowledge from the native elder regarding Bigfoot and is told something to the effect of "So you're finally getting to that, eh?"

I can't remember the exact source off the top of my head but the way mayaka tells it is very similar.

Mayaka, some questions:

- How long did you spend in the Hoopa Valley reservation?

- You are a young man now. I think you have been interested in Bigfoot for quite some time. When and how were you first exposed to Bigfoot and became interested?

- What tales were you told regarding the Oh-Mah?
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 12th January 2009 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:26 PM   #982
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Rocket, I spent time in the hoopa valley on a reservation, when i was young. Im now 18, moved to long island from california.

Oh-mah is a beast. However, I personally have visited other reservations. When i mention the sasquatch's existence, all of the indians told me "Why has the white man been realizing this now? We have known it was real before colombus even set foot on our land!". His message sent chills up my spine
"all" as in 100% of them?

They "know" it is real? How?

Could it be that the "white man" ( your words) needs a little more to establish a fact than age old stories?

If they "know" its real- do they have any? Any hides? bones? Do they know where they live?

Those are legitimate questions.
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:30 PM   #983
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Dio, why dont you meet with a local tribe and discuss the boss?
It is a discussion that would feature black magic and mystical arrows if it was with people familiar with the tale.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:33 PM   #984
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Kitz, the reservation i lived on had other members who were very specific. No, i have never heard of mystical stuff, unless its about monsters. When i asked them about sasquatch, they said "It is regarded as part of the normal fauna, just an ordinary animal". Its worth noting that tribes give powers to all known species, such as moose and bear.
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:35 PM   #985
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Kitz, i have lived in california for 14 years, and long island 4 years. During my life in california, i met indians who told me that sasquatch was no boogey-man, that he was physically out there. If they encountered it, they wouldnt report it, it would be viewed as a normal occurence.
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Old 12th January 2009, 02:57 PM   #986
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Kitz, the reservation i lived on had other members who were very specific. No, i have never heard of mystical stuff, unless its about monsters. When i asked them about sasquatch, they said "It is regarded as part of the normal fauna, just an ordinary animal".
No, I really doubt "they" were talking to you about fauna. I can see in the language that you use that you are recycling the blurbs that you have absorbed while spending time on Bigfoot enthusiast forums and chat groups.

Quote:
Its worth noting that tribes give powers to all known species, such as moose and bear.
Mayaka, yes or no. Have you read the research post that I linked to?
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 12th January 2009, 03:04 PM   #987
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Kitz, i have lived in california for 14 years, and long island 4 years. During my life in california, i met indians who told me that sasquatch was no boogey-man, that he was physically out there. If they encountered it, they wouldnt report it, it would be viewed as a normal occurence.
Lived in California 14 years, ok. mayaka would you mind answering these specific questions I asked you?

- How long did you spend in the Hoopa Valley reservation?

- You are a young man now. I think you have been interested in Bigfoot for quite some time. When and how were you first exposed to Bigfoot and became interested?

- What tales were you told regarding the Oh-Mah?

You can quote them and answer them separately if you like.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 12th January 2009, 03:55 PM   #988
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Kitz, you can say all you want, but that doesnt make you right, does it now? It wasnt a bf enthuiast who told me it was a real animal. Its more of an extroridinary claim to suggest its anything other than an animal
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Old 12th January 2009, 04:15 PM   #989
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I do not state that I am categorically right. I can only say that the facts in the research that I have done show that what you are referring to as Oh-Mah is clearly shown a being a supernatural devil/sorcerer-type figure. Yes or no. Did you read it?

One more time, I'm trying to gain an understanding of your position. To that end I have asked you three specific questions. Again I ask, can you please answer those questions. They are very straightforward and regard information that should be easy for you to specify.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 12th January 2009, 04:15 PM   #990
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That's completely backward. Just because natives make a claim doesn't make it in any way, shape, or form more valid.

It's just a bunch of revisionism to make the group look smarter. "Hey, you Indians are stereotypically epically knowledgeable about natural creatures! Did you know about bigfoot?" "Why of course we did, we know all about all the animals of the forest, we called it...ummm...boss of the woods! That's it..." One generation removed from it, and suddenly it is accepted that the tribe has 'always' known about bigfoot.

Acting nonchalant about it, putting on an air of detachment, doesn't mean the person making the claim is right. Even if the person who told you about this wasn't a bf lover, what makes them right? How do you know they weren't mistaken about their own culture's story? And what context did it come up in if not a bigfoot one?
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Old 12th January 2009, 04:18 PM   #991
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Many tribes call themselves by different names than they used to, so I don't think this is a valid criticism.

That is a valid point and I apologize if I got it wrong.

My people have always called themselves by their ancestral name that is "as old as memory". Other tribes I have worked with have also called themselves by their ancestral name.

Non-tribe members (especially government officials) have changed the names of First Nations peoples and tribes. But, the government is always screwing things up...
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Old 12th January 2009, 04:25 PM   #992
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
That's completely backward. Just because natives make a claim doesn't make it in any way, shape, or form more valid.
Well, everything except the...uhh... size thing...right?
I mean everyone knows we are...ummm...bigger.

Last edited by rockinkt; 12th January 2009 at 04:26 PM. Reason: typoos
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Old 12th January 2009, 05:53 PM   #993
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Rocket, I spent time in the hoopa valley on a reservation, when i was young. Im now 18, moved to long island from california.

Oh-mah is a beast. However, I personally have visited other reservations. When i mention the sasquatch's existence, all of the indians told me "Why has the white man been realizing this now? We have known it was real before colombus even set foot on our land!". His message sent chills up my spine
Sends chills down my spine when somebody claims Columbus visited California.
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Old 12th January 2009, 07:31 PM   #994
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Kitz, i have lived in california for 14 years, and long island 4 years. During my life in california, i met indians who told me that sasquatch was no boogey-man, that he was physically out there. If they encountered it, they wouldnt report it, it would be viewed as a normal occurence.
Where on Long Island?
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Old 12th January 2009, 07:55 PM   #995
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Sends chills down my spine when somebody claims Columbus visited California.
I like the anecdotes that makaya comes up with:

Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
When i mention the sasquatch's existence, all of the indians told me "Why has the white man been realizing this now? We have known it was real before colombus even set foot on our land!". His message sent chills up my spine
Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
When i asked them about sasquatch, they said "It is regarded as part of the normal fauna, just an ordinary animal". Its worth noting that tribes give powers to all known species, such as moose and bear.
But I find it hard to believe that he thinks anyone actually would think those imagined dialogues ever took place.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 13th January 2009, 01:30 PM   #996
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Kitz, they have took place. I still remember the man saying it.
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Old 13th January 2009, 01:45 PM   #997
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You mean people. You didn't refer to a single man but rather a collective group of people. If you would like to alter the stories to a single man, can you tell us who the man was? Also, mayaka, please address posts #989 and #987 using the quote function.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 13th January 2009, 08:17 PM   #998
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Lived in California 14 years, ok. mayaka would you mind answering these specific questions I asked you?

- How long did you spend in the Hoopa Valley reservation?

- You are a young man now. I think you have been interested in Bigfoot for quite some time. When and how were you first exposed to Bigfoot and became interested?

- What tales were you told regarding the Oh-Mah?

You can quote them and answer them separately if you like.
I have spent 14 years there.

Ever since i began to talk and listen, i have heard many lore of the creature. The Oh-Mah is our sasquatch, not a boogey-man, he was a good sign, a creature encountered by many.
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Old 13th January 2009, 08:25 PM   #999
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Have you examined the research I've done? Can you tell me one example of the lore you were told about Oh-Mah? What tales refer to him as a good sign? If he was encountered by many then why no remains?
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 13th January 2009 at 08:35 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 13th January 2009, 08:32 PM   #1000
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Makaya, is this the Hupa tribal group to which you belong?:

http://www.hoopa-nsn.gov/

ETA: And have you ever heard or seen the word "tintah-k'iwungxoya'n?"
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 13th January 2009 at 08:34 PM.
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