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[Merged]How long since you heard something new from the Truth Movement?

How long since you heard something new from the Truth Movement?

  • Total voters
    122
  • Poll closed .

R.Mackey

Philosopher
R
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
7,854
This question is partially motivated by gravy's recent decision, totally justified in my opinion, to retire from the field of argument with the Truth Movement.

In my experience, the other side hasn't contributed anything useful for a long, long time, essentially forfeiting the contest. You might recall my victory thread, from about fifteen months ago, wherein I attempted to find the very best among the Truth Movement, rather than being bogged down in fruitless repetitive arguments with those who were merely repeating what they had read. This in turn helped lead to my whitepaper on Dr. Griffin, thereby addressing one of the acknowledged leaders as well as numerous other Truth Movement luminaries who he quoted as sources. That paper has circulated since September, and apart from the usual sniping, remains largely unchallenged. No one, Truth Movement or otherwise, has found a single significant error, or defended a single claim of Dr. Griffin's.

In my view, the Movement has ground to an utter standstill. I honestly think we're done.

Maybe I'm wrong. I can't look everywhere, and I have my biases just like everyone else. Therefore, please give some thought to the poll. I ask for participation from debunkers, fence-sitters, Truth Movement supporters, and watchers of every stripe.

If you are aware of a significant recent development, please follow up with additional information:
  • A quick summary of the information and/or claims,
  • Who and where this information came from,
  • When it was produced,
  • Where it can be found.
In this thread I only wish to compile a survey, but I encourage follow-up discussions in their own threads.

I believe this experiment will justify dropping the Truth Movement altogether, and explain the nature of discussions here over the last few months. But, as a scientist, I know not to take any experiment for granted.

Thanks for your time.
 
If there are any new arguments for teh trooth, I haven't seen them.

ETA: I just noticed my post count- 2911. Two Nine Eleven!!!!! Maybe this will launch a whole new raft of Truther theories.... or maybe not.
 
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I don't think the thermite chips thingy counts. It's just one twoofer's woo compounded on earlier woo.

So, in my experience, it's been years.
 
Um... New as in "Honest question/theory I haven't heard before?" Or new as in "So crazy the average sitcom writer would say 'yeah right'?"
 
Granted, I only heard about the twoofers last summer, but everything that I have heard in the last six months was on the table already...and had been thoroughly disproved, explained, critically analyzed and debunked. I did, however, learn a lot about the details of 9-11 that I had never thought about, and got a great lesson in sceptical thinking.
I just hung around to further my study of the clinically insane, moderately delusional or just plain obtuse population that prowls teh interwebzzz.
(and to make fun of the "chimps in the cage"):p
 
I had to respond within a month or so.

Last month Richard Gage announced, that he would be joining forces with Steven Jones and his Scholars for Truth and Justice, in order to begin their own forensic based investigation.

I know this is all doomed to fail. But this is the first time I see them actually announcing a new actual investigation of their own. So that was news to me.
 
I heard about the "truthers" around last winter, so there are at times some things that I hear that are "new" to me.

Beyond that I would say no. There is nothing new from the "truth" movement, except new ways of acting gittish.
 
ref said:
I had to respond within a month or so.

Last month Richard Gage announced, that he would be joining forces with Steven Jones and his Scholars for Truth and Justice, in order to begin their own forensic based investigation.

I know this is all doomed to fail. But this is the first time I see them actually announcing a new actual investigation of their own. So that was news to me.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much they know about Forensic Science? And considering their viewpoint would they even accept following the chain of custody procedures?
 
I voted "it's been years", but I'm not sure. One of you will know.... I just went to MikeW's site to get the FBI timeline and didn't know he'd changed to wiki format, but I seem to recall him mentioning that he was going to do so in a post quite some time ago.

Mike's work has always been my first stop when I want to look up some new claim or angle, so for whatever it's worth, that's the indication that I haven't come across anything in need of extra work in quite some time.

(I'm excluding delusional fantasies as not being "new", otherwise you get Maxie the Photon, but I still think he's doing street theatre.)
 
I honestly don't know. I must confess that combating the "Truth Movement" has never been a goal of mine. I initially became interested in 9/11 solely to satisfy my own curiosity, which is probably partially why I latched onto NORAD and then the FAA - I'm an Air Force brat and I have always had a keen interest in the military and aviation.

Once I found I had compiled for myself a modest amount of knowledge I found myself enjoying the task of educating others about the topic. I guess I don't think in terms of "Truthers" I think in terms of people who are ignorant of 9/11, and those who are not. Hence why I'm always happy to explain what I know to anyone once. If they fail to learn I give up at that point.

So for me it's not a case of "Have they presented anything new?" and if they haven't it's time to stop. For me it's a case of "Have you met anyone recently who was ignorant of the aspects of 9/11 which you know a bit about?" The answer is yes. Edx is a new arrival who is ignorant of NORAD and FAA activities on 9/11 and I was imparting what knowledge I had to him, but he seems to have vanished into a puff of smoke.

However once my "Air War" project is finished I don't think I'll need to engage in much discussion any more. If someone's ignorant I'll just direct them to read that. Once "Air War" is done (which could still be months away, as I intend to make it as comprehensive and accurate as possible and I still have a lot of NORAD audio to listen too) I can't see myself being much involved in 9/11 research anymore (although I'd like to finish "Distortion Of Fact" at some point too) simply because I would have exhausted research on the topic that most interests me. After that my activities would probably slow to simply updating "Air War" any time some new information was uncovered about the FAA and NORAD and what they do (I would love, for example, to get my hands on audio tapes like the NEADS ones from the FAA).

Lastly (and perhaps because I've never taken much notice of their claims) I found I was actually unable to recall the last time I heard of a new Truth Movement claim.

Anyway. I chose the Planet X option for the above reasons.
 
It's been AGES. Which probably explains why we're STILL hearing about 'Pull It', 'Faster than freefall', 'standown' etc etc to this day.
 
This was just about a month ago I think...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/opinion/02kean.html

Now did I miss the release of the final WTC7 report? I read here somewhere that it should be coming out soon but it's been ages hasn't it? I also heard there might be a possibility that when it does come out a certain recently departed JREF debunker might have to make a major overhaul to his precious google pages. LOL that’s not why he bailed is it?

Maybe you should start a new poll. When will the official investigation be complete and unobstructed? Ever? When will debunkers have to stop rehashing their twoof?
 
Mackey there's a flaw in the wording of your OP. You wish to elicit information about the Truth Movement. Why don't you ask, what news have you heard about 9/11 research?

For one, Shenon's book, The Commission, absolutely lays to waste whatever shred of credibility that whitewash ever had in the first place.

Secondly, when the final WTC 7 report finally comes out, according to Shyam Sunder, NIST will reject diesel fuel as the cause of the collapse of WTC 7.

Now that we have no reliable central account, from the organizations best funded and resourced to provide one, I for one, am not all that surprised that one of the leading "debunkers" chose now to bail.

The job was hard before, it's only going to get tougher.
 
LastChild said:
This was just about a month ago I think...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/opinion/02kean.html

Now did I miss the release of the final WTC7 report? I read here somewhere that it should be coming out soon but it's been ages hasn't it? I also heard there might be a possibility that when it does come out a certain recently departed JREF debunker might have to make a major overhaul to his precious google pages. LOL that’s not why he bailed is it?

Maybe you should start a new poll. When will the official investigation be complete and unobstructed? Ever? When will debunkers have to stop rehashing their twoof?
Click to expand...

Good lord, are you in my computer? Sorry, I started replying before you posted yours.
 
RedIbis said:
Mackey there's a flaw in the wording of your OP. You wish to elicit information about the Truth Movement. Why don't you ask, what news have you heard about 9/11 research?

For one, Shenon's book, The Commission, absolutely lays to waste whatever shred of credibility that whitewash ever had in the first place.

Secondly, when the final WTC 7 report finally comes out, according to Shyam Sunder, NIST will reject diesel fuel as the cause of the collapse of WTC 7.

Now that we have no reliable central account, from the organizations best funded and resourced to provide one, I for one, am not all that surprised that one of the leading "debunkers" chose now to bail.

The job was hard before, it's only going to get tougher.
Click to expand...
I missed the physical (or audio) evidence for controled demolition. Can you provide it for me?
 
RedIbis said:
For one, Shenon's book, The Commission, absolutely lays to waste whatever shred of credibility that whitewash ever had in the first place.
Click to expand...

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...book,+The+Commission&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

Here's some excerpts (the "juicy" parts) from the book. There seems to be some political infighting and many attempts by the Bush administration to cover their *sses.

Can you get from that, which is hardly surprising, to something which is surprising?
 
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What's new in the Truth Movement? Demolition by heat-weakening.

R.Mackey,

How long since you heard something new from the Truth Movement?

Well, it is clear that in 2007 a new concept appeared - demolition by heat-weakening.

Greening's ammonium perchlorate model (AP-MIHOP), and my thermite model (MAX-MIHOP), were independently derived, yet struck upon some remarkably similar ideas.

Demolition by heat-weakening solves many of the problems demolition by cutting was facing.

Demolition by heat-weakening only needed to cause impact storeys to fail, and gravity would have done the rest, making the task a lot simpler than rigging the entire buildings.

Demolition by heat-weakening fits WTC7 like a glove.

Demolition by heat-weakening has not been studied, because ambiguity-reducing deception made deception targets (like you) blind to even the concept.

Demolition by heat-weakening has in no way been debunked.


Enjoy your victory lap.


P.S. I didn't want to start a new thread on this because I'd get harassed and threatened if I did.
 
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