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Old 29th May 2008, 05:15 AM   #1
Edmund Standing
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Colonel Robert Bowman gets owned

A very amusing exchange here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jd8JmQh0m_8

After a few minutes Troy gives up pretending to be a troofer and goes for the throat. He demands evidence and reasons for the supposed demolition of WTC 7 and puts Bowman on the spot. Some very funny moments, such as asking Bowman if he'd use youtube videos as evidence in a hypothetical 9/11 court case The idiot Bowman even brings up the Silverstein 'pull it' nonsense.
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Old 29th May 2008, 05:21 AM   #2
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Calling Bowman at home after he is usually asleep and lying about your intentions isn't amusing.
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Old 29th May 2008, 05:29 AM   #3
Edmund Standing
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Originally Posted by StoneWT View Post
Calling Bowman at home after he is usually asleep
How was he supposed to know that?
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Old 29th May 2008, 05:33 AM   #4
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Troy, in the unlikely event you're reading this do us a favor and switch sides please.
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Old 29th May 2008, 05:35 AM   #5
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I'm not a fan of "ambush interviews."
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Old 29th May 2008, 05:55 AM   #6
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While I have zero problem with a conspiracy peddler's myths being disproven, I'm not sure that Troy's methods are the right ones for this. I understand that he's passionate about confronting truthers, but he takes it to such a degree that he has in essense become what he opposes. And that's too far to go.

ETA: Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to rip on Edmund here. I'm just saying that Troy's behavior is overboard.
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Old 29th May 2008, 06:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by StoneWT View Post
Calling Bowman at home after he is usually asleep and lying about your intentions isn't amusing.
Yeah, calling in on a radio show when they ask you to call is one thing, but this seems like it might be asking for trouble. I think you should stick to calling Alex Jones man. The AJ call was funny, but the Bobby Mac call was wayyyy too much. Be careful Troy....

That being said, I thought it was a taste of some icky medicines. This guy blindly calls people killers and slanders firemen. It was like a reverse WAC, but remixed with a Hank Hill voice over.
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Old 29th May 2008, 07:07 AM   #8
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I don't think there is anything wrong with the "ambush" interview and/or confronting the truthers.

But I have to agree with those above that insulting this man the way he does really does no good. He may honestly be insane, mentally ill or just a bit gullible and misinformed. Insulting the PERSON rather than the message made him look mean-spirited and rather immature.

This type of "interview" has enormous potential when the interviewer keeps his cool and deals with facts and lets the interviewee hang themselves. It's more or less like this forum. Any rational, half-educated person could read any thread here and witness the truth movement's self-destruction. A 10 minute youtube vid could be the effective soundbite to reach those not willing to read through thousands of posts.

but this one.....not so much
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Old 29th May 2008, 08:33 AM   #9
Walter Ego
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Troy Responds On Screw Loose Change

Not being able to post here (he is banned), Troy gives his opinion of JREF on SLC. (comments on this post.)

Edited by Darat:  Quote removed.

Edmond agrees.

Edited by Darat:  Quote removed.



So, if I read this correctly, truthers are 'fair game' for any sort of borderline legal harassment (though it is not clear where the line should be drawn).

Troy has also garnered the support of no planer Nico Haupt.

Edited by Darat:  Quote removed.


Mod WarningA banned Member has lost the right to be able to contribute to this Forum, quoting banned Members as you have done is effectively allowing them to still interact and actively contribute here.
Posted By:Darat

Last edited by Darat; 29th May 2008 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 29th May 2008, 08:39 AM   #10
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Kudos to Drudgewire, for being singled out.

Hopefully your phone number is unlisted.
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Old 29th May 2008, 09:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
Edmond agrees.
I agree that troofers do not deserve to be treated with respect. We may do so for the purposes of debate, but I think they deserve to be treated with contempt. I singled out those words for agreement. I didn't say I would spray troofers with urine and all the rest of it, or agree with it, but I wouldn't care if someone did do that.


Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
So, if I read this correctly, truthers are 'fair game' for any sort of borderline legal harassment (though it is not clear where the line should be drawn).
Again, I don't care if this does happen to troofers, and often I find it amusing. There is a difference between that and advocacy though. And frankly, it's beyond me why anyone should care what happens to troofers, given what they say about numerous members of the US Government, the FDNY, Silverstein, etc., and given the kind of claims they make - telephone calls on 9/11 were faked, the people on the planes must have been cowards if they were scared of boxcutters, and so on. These people are actively working to destroy the West and to assist radical Islam with their lies. I would be happy to see the whole lot rounded up and sent to Guantanamo Bay.
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Old 29th May 2008, 09:31 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Edmund Standing View Post
Again, I don't care if this does happen to troofers, and often I find it amusing. There is a difference between that and advocacy though. And frankly, it's beyond me why anyone should care what happens to troofers, given what they say about numerous members of the US Government, the FDNY, Silverstein, etc., and given the kind of claims they make - telephone calls on 9/11 were faked, the people on the planes must have been cowards if they were scared of boxcutters, and so on. These people are actively working to destroy the West and to assist radical Islam with their lies. I would be happy to see the whole lot rounded up and sent to Guantanamo Bay.
One of my greatest friends is both a 'troofer' and a global warming denier. He's a generous and compassionate person who happens to have watched a lot of videos on youtube.
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Old 29th May 2008, 09:33 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by StoneWT View Post
Calling Bowman at home after he is usually asleep and lying about your intentions isn't amusing.
Bowman answered the phone, and he failed to screen his call; sounds indicative of his failed ideas on 9/11.

Last edited by beachnut; 29th May 2008 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 29th May 2008, 09:34 AM   #14
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I called this guy on air phone.
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Old 29th May 2008, 10:16 AM   #15
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I would love to see Troy go after Dylan Avery this aggressively.
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Old 29th May 2008, 10:32 AM   #16
Walter Ego
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Originally Posted by Edmund Standing View Post
I agree that troofers do not deserve to be treated with respect. We may do so for the purposes of debate, but I think they deserve to be treated with contempt. I singled out those words for agreement. I didn't say I would spray troofers with urine and all the rest of it, or agree with it, but I wouldn't care if someone did do that.
Granted that the publicly stated opinions of truthers are not worthy of respect, the issue here (which you seem to have trouble grasping) is whether it is ethically correct to call someone at their home under false pretenses for the explicit purpose of harassment and to record the conversations without permission and then make the recordings public.

This is an issue of privacy and the right of individuals, however odious their publicly stated political opinions may be, to be secure from harassment in the privacy of their homes. If you can't understand that, then you should make your home phone number public and invite truthers to respond in kind. Otherwise, you are being hypocritical.
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Old 29th May 2008, 10:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Drudgewire View Post
Troy, in the unlikely event you're reading this do us a favor and switch sides please.

The Manchurian Candidate (the original not the remake) was on TV last night and there was a bit of dialogue about the reckless name calling of the character based on the late anti-communist Senator Joe McCarthy who, ‘couldn’t be doing a better job for the other side if he was a paid Soviet agent.’ The same could be said about Troy. He couldn’t be generating more sympathy for the Truth Movement if he was on the We Are Change payroll.

Hmmm…
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:04 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
The Manchurian Candidate (the original not the remake) was on TV last night and there was a bit of dialogue about the reckless name calling of the character based on the late anti-communist Senator Joe McCarthy who, ‘couldn’t be doing a better job for the other side if he was a paid Soviet agent.’ The same could be said about Troy. He couldn’t be generating more sympathy for the Truth Movement if he was on the We Are Change payroll.

Hmmm…
But aren't the truthers serving to deflect legitimate criticism away from the Bush administration?

I guess that makes Troy a triple agent.

Head asplode. 3... 2... 1...
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:18 AM   #19
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If it is reprehensible for twoofers to do this type of ambush call, then it is just as reprehensible for debunkers to do the same.

"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

NOT "Do unto others what they do to you"

NOT " Do unto others ,,,first"

NOT "Do unto others anything you wish to, as long as you can justify it by saying they are less than human"

Last edited by jaydeehess; 29th May 2008 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
Kudos to Drudgewire, for being singled out.


Quote:
Hopefully your phone number is unlisted.
It is, and I sometimes refer to the S&W 642 legally resting in my pocket holster as "loon repellent."
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-lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

Last edited by Drudgewire; 29th May 2008 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:29 AM   #21
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Personally, unless I recognise the phone number on the called ID I let voice mail pick it up. Perhaps Bowman should adopt this practise.
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:30 AM   #22
Walter Ego
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
If it is reprehensible for twoofers to do this type of ambush call, then it is just as reprehensible for debunkers to do the same.

"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

NOT "Do unto others what they do to you"

NOT " Do unto others ,,,first"

NOT "Do unto others as long as you can justify it by saying they are less than human"

Yes, that's my point. This is an ethical not a political issue. You can’t condemn truthers for disrespect and crossing the line and then condone, implicitly or otherwise, the same behavior when it comes from ‘your’ side. There is a word for that. It’s called hypocrisy.
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:30 AM   #23
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I listened to some of the interview with Bob McIlvaine, couldn't stomach listening to a repeat with Bowman. That Troy guy is sick.

Last edited by Oxigen; 29th May 2008 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:33 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
Yes, that's my point. This is an ethical not a political issue. You can’t condemn truthers for disrespect and crossing the line and then condone, implicitly or otherwise, the same behavior when it comes from ‘your’ side. There is a word for that. It’s called hypocrisy.
I have to agree. I do not want to see debunkers using the same dumbass tactics that the twoofers use.
And it is hard to have more intellectual contempt for the Truthers then I do.
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:40 AM   #25
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Troy is sort of like the debunker version of PDoh or JackChit. They freak out, say extreme things, do their best to annoy and bother the other side. I do not condone or support the behavior, as a matter of fact I "reject and denounce it".

Here is the reason why the "aggressive, in your face" call/interview is wrong.

1. It invades a persons right to privacy, and peace.
2. It sets a bad example, and poorly represents your cause.

As well, we are the first to complain, repeatedly here (and I think justifiably so) about the WAC boyz, when they do the same to leaders and politicians. So are we not hypocritical, if we do not denounce someone who does it in the name (if only) of the debunkers.

TAM

Last edited by T.A.M.; 29th May 2008 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:47 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
Yes, that's my point. This is an ethical not a political issue. You can’t condemn truthers for disrespect and crossing the line and then condone, implicitly or otherwise, the same behavior when it comes from ‘your’ side. There is a word for that. It’s called hypocrisy.
Couldn't have said it better myself. By the very nature of their movement, we have the moral high ground against these liars. Troy can't say that.

If he's comfortable with that then more power to him, but it's a perfect example of why skeptics distance themselves from him.
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Old 29th May 2008, 11:58 AM   #27
Edmund Standing
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
Granted that the publicly stated opinions of truthers are not worthy of respect, the issue here (which you seem to have trouble grasping) is whether it is ethically correct to call someone at their home under false pretenses for the explicit purpose of harassment and to record the conversations without permission and then make the recordings public.

This is an issue of privacy and the right of individuals, however odious their publicly stated political opinions may be, to be secure from harassment in the privacy of their homes. If you can't understand that, then you should make your home phone number public and invite truthers to respond in kind. Otherwise, you are being hypocritical.
I don't have 'trouble grasping' what you're saying you patronising twit. I don't live my life by the kind of 'ethics' you obviously do, nor do I feel compelled to be 'fair' or worry about perceived hypocrisy.

I don't live by the 'golden rule', I don't believe in divine retribution or karma. If I respect someone (or if by acting as though I do it will benefit me in some way) I will treat them with respect and adopt an ethical code in relation to them. If I don't then I don't care. The fact that I don't want troofer idiots calling me at home doesn't mean I don't find Troy's calls amusing. I don't want someone to torture and kill me, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy horror films. I don't want to be in pain, but I still laugh at 'world's worst sports injury' type TV shows. I don't want to get shot, but I still enjoy violent computer games. So don't come to me expecting some kind of holier than thou Christian style 'ethically correct' position.

To return to the original point, I think the call is enjoyable in the sense that it is great to hear some wannabe conspiracy theory celebrity getting their idiocy shoved back in their face. Oh, and don't forget, he was stupid enough to sit there and be insulted for 10 minutes without hanging up. If I was Bowman I would have told Troy to [rule 10] off.
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Old 29th May 2008, 12:01 PM   #28
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Psssssst! Little secret: He also isn't funny, and fails to advance his argument.

Ignore the wingnuts, whatever the wing.
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Old 29th May 2008, 12:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Confuseling View Post
Little secret: He also isn't funny

Which is the real problem I have. I love humor at the expense of others as much as the next guy (if not MUCH more), but the payoff has to be worth it.
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Old 29th May 2008, 12:26 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Edmund Standing View Post
I don't live by the 'golden rule', I don't believe in divine retribution or karma. If I respect someone (or if by acting as though I do it will benefit me in some way) I will treat them with respect and adopt an ethical code in relation to them. If I don't then I don't care. The fact that I don't want troofer idiots calling me at home doesn't mean I don't find Troy's calls amusing. I don't want someone to torture and kill me, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy horror films. I don't want to be in pain, but I still laugh at 'world's worst sports injury' type TV shows. I don't want to get shot, but I still enjoy violent computer games. So don't come to me expecting some kind of holier than thou Christian style 'ethically correct' position.
Wow.

TAM
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Old 29th May 2008, 12:29 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Edmund Standing View Post
I don't have 'trouble grasping' what you're saying you patronising twit. I don't live my life by the kind of 'ethics' you obviously do, nor do I feel compelled to be 'fair' or worry about perceived hypocrisy.

I don't live by the 'golden rule', I don't believe in divine retribution or karma. If I respect someone (or if by acting as though I do it will benefit me in some way) I will treat them with respect and adopt an ethical code in relation to them. If I don't then I don't care. The fact that I don't want troofer idiots calling me at home doesn't mean I don't find Troy's calls amusing. I don't want someone to torture and kill me, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy horror films. I don't want to be in pain, but I still laugh at 'world's worst sports injury' type TV shows. I don't want to get shot, but I still enjoy violent computer games. So don't come to me expecting some kind of holier than thou Christian style 'ethically correct' position.

To return to the original point, I think the call is enjoyable in the sense that it is great to hear some wannabe conspiracy theory celebrity getting their idiocy shoved back in their face. Oh, and don't forget, he was stupid enough to sit there and be insulted for 10 minutes without hanging up. If I was Bowman I would have told Troy to [rule 10] off.
Got it.
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Old 29th May 2008, 12:35 PM   #32
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Wow.Just Wow.
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Old 29th May 2008, 12:38 PM   #33
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I don't know this Edmund fellow from shine-ola. What strikes me as odd is this. The last few days a D'oh P sock has been arguing how "debunkers" love to harass. He even tried using Troy as an example. He is in hiding, not posting. Now this baiting type thread, saying how cool it is, shows up. Hmmmm....

My .02

Last edited by Dog Town; 29th May 2008 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 29th May 2008, 12:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
This is an ethical not a political issue.
It is also a legal issue. Recording a phonecall without consent is illegal in many states and there are also state and federal laws that apply if you publicly release a recording done without consent.

For those interested here is a nice little guide that covers all the legalities and individual state laws. It's targeted at journalists, but is a good summary for anyone.

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

Last edited by Alareth; 29th May 2008 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 29th May 2008, 04:09 PM   #35
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"..you lunatic - SORRY"

Ah, Troy. Didn't know he had still an account running. I had fun watching or rather said listening to it!
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Old 29th May 2008, 04:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Troy is sort of like the debunker version of PDoh or JackChit. They freak out, say extreme things, do their best to annoy and bother the other side. I do not condone or support the behavior, as a matter of fact I "reject and denounce it".

Here is the reason why the "aggressive, in your face" call/interview is wrong.

1. It invades a persons right to privacy, and peace.
2. It sets a bad example, and poorly represents your cause.

As well, we are the first to complain, repeatedly here (and I think justifiably so) about the WAC boyz, when they do the same to leaders and politicians. So are we not hypocritical, if we do not denounce someone who does it in the name (if only) of the debunkers.

TAM
Hey, at least he apologized!
What do you think of pom and him calling that musician who was on the HardFire video editing edition a lunatic?
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Old 29th May 2008, 04:15 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Edmund Standing View Post
I don't have 'trouble grasping' what you're saying you patronising twit. I don't live my life by the kind of 'ethics' you obviously do, nor do I feel compelled to be 'fair' or worry about perceived hypocrisy.

I don't live by the 'golden rule', I don't believe in divine retribution or karma. If I respect someone (or if by acting as though I do it will benefit me in some way) I will treat them with respect and adopt an ethical code in relation to them. If I don't then I don't care. The fact that I don't want troofer idiots calling me at home doesn't mean I don't find Troy's calls amusing. I don't want someone to torture and kill me, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy horror films. I don't want to be in pain, but I still laugh at 'world's worst sports injury' type TV shows. I don't want to get shot, but I still enjoy violent computer games. So don't come to me expecting some kind of holier than thou Christian style 'ethically correct' position.

To return to the original point, I think the call is enjoyable in the sense that it is great to hear some wannabe conspiracy theory celebrity getting their idiocy shoved back in their face. Oh, and don't forget, he was stupid enough to sit there and be insulted for 10 minutes without hanging up. If I was Bowman I would have told Troy to [rule 10] off.
Misanthrope by any chance?
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Old 29th May 2008, 04:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
It is also a legal issue. Recording a phonecall without consent is illegal in many states and there are also state and federal laws that apply if you publicly release a recording done without consent.
A couple of Shock Jocks got into real trouble with this a few years ago.
They were doing a stunt where one of them did a imitation of Regis Philbin(the jocks target du jour) and phoned up a hotel Philbin was staying at to give a phony order for elaborate room service and the clerk was taken in and offered to connect them with Philbin's answering machine at his home. The morons did not know when to back down, so they played the recordings at the machine over the air..live..and within fifteen minutes were taken off the air and suspended for a week.
And I have seen other shock jocks get into hot water over this issue,because they are stepping out from under the shelter of the First Admendment..which is when the owners of the station and network start getting really nervous.
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Old 29th May 2008, 05:57 PM   #39
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I wonder if Jeff got permission before he recorded all of HIS phone calls?

I suppose not. But no Truthers complained about wiretapping laws now did they?
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Old 29th May 2008, 07:40 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mrbaracuda View Post
Hey, at least he apologized!
What do you think of pom and him calling that musician who was on the HardFire video editing edition a lunatic?
I think "lunatic" is a little harsh. ACE Baker (which is who I think you are talking of) seemed very calm and polite from what I witnessed. I know his posts here often bordered on insane, but mainly in terms of their premise, and conclusions, more so then their demeanor.

I would say "paranoid no-planer" might be a little more accurate.

TAM
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