John Edward - The Real Deal?

Southwind17

Philosopher
Southwind17
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
5,154
I briefly watched John Edward for the first time on TV last night. I say "briefly" because even if I wasn't anti-mediums the trailer I kept seeing, to me, showed him as the most obnoxious of "entertainers". That smug, condescending face he makes when his "victim" suddenly recalls a detail that initially eluded them, despite Edward's initial insistence as to its relevance and importance. I just happened to flick onto the channel towards the end and endured it for around 10 minutes.

But that said, I can't help wondering whether he, and those like him, actually believe in what they're doing. Is it possible, I wonder, whether he somehow naturally acquired his cold reading skills, as opposed to being taught them or consciously learning them, and, therefore, honestly believes he has some rare, special skill that he genuinely interprets as communicating with the deceased, but is unable to explain it. Is that possible?

I struggle to see how a charlatan can so willingly and overtly expose himself to the mass media, or does he take sufficient comfort in knowing that the people who fall for his antics are those who desperately want to believe in him, and that they're seemingly in the majority, thereby affording him "safety in numbers"?

Maybe he can simply sleep soundly at night feeling that, although he knows he's a fake, he feels he's nonetheless helping people come to terms, a kind of "human placebo".
 
There are "psychics" who genuinely believe that what they're doing is real, and as a result, probably do think they're helping people.

I, personally, do not put JE in that category. I think that he, like Sylvia Browne and so many others, are well aware of the fact that they're charlatans. After all, they refuse to sit for the MDC. If they really believed they were psychic, why not go for it and prove to the world that they do genuinely have a gift? They refuse, because they know they can't pass, and there goes their living, up in smoke.

How do they sleep at night? They lack a conscience.
 
Empress said:
How do they sleep at night? They lack a conscience.
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As much as I despise mediums and psychics I'm not sure I agree. All of the people who featured on the show that I watched part of seemed to take great comfort in what JE "did for them". Obviously, if they somehow later realized that what he's doing is fakery then that could be even more disheartening for them, but that doesn't seem likely to me. He's convinced them that their dearly departed are still "around", and they desperately want to continue believing that, so why should they go out of their way to challenge that belief? I'm sure they'd happily pay him handsomely for another reading. It's not so different, in principle, from a guy frequenting a knocking shop and paying good money for sexual gratification, is it (provided he doesn't have a partner who he's deceiving)?
 
He has to know he's fake, based on the alleged amount of editing it takes to produce one of his rather poor television performances.
 
Southwind17 said:
As much as I despise mediums and psychics I'm not sure I agree. All of the people who featured on the show that I watched part of seemed to take great comfort in what JE "did for them". Obviously, if they somehow later realized that what he's doing is fakery then that could be even more disheartening for them, but that doesn't seem likely to me. He's convinced them that their dearly departed are still "around", and they desperately want to continue believing that, so why should they go out of their way to challenge that belief? I'm sure they'd happily pay him handsomely for another reading. It's not so different, in principle, from a guy frequenting a knocking shop and paying good money for sexual gratification, is it (provided he doesn't have a partner who he's deceiving)?
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It is possible that Edward has some sort of rationalization to tell himself that what he is doing is good, but I rather doubt it. Only a very select few in his audiences get chosen for testimonials. The rest of the audience payed for their ticket and sat for hours watching him miss and miss and miss. The performance is edited to include the bits favorable to him. Maybe a few people come out feeling a fleeting sense of hope, but for tv, Edward needs that audience of witnesses. I think he knows full well what he is doing and chooses not to feel guilty for swindling so many people for complicity. Conjurers and mentalists do the same tricks, but they don't pretend to be doing any public service.

~ggep~
 
Southwind17 said:
As much as I despise mediums and psychics I'm not sure I agree. All of the people who featured on the show that I watched part of seemed to take great comfort in what JE "did for them". Obviously, if they somehow later realized that what he's doing is fakery then that could be even more disheartening for them, but that doesn't seem likely to me. He's convinced them that their dearly departed are still "around", and they desperately want to continue believing that, so why should they go out of their way to challenge that belief? I'm sure they'd happily pay him handsomely for another reading. It's not so different, in principle, from a guy frequenting a knocking shop and paying good money for sexual gratification, is it (provided he doesn't have a partner who he's deceiving)?
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At least when you pay for sex, you get sex. When you pay for communications from the "great beyond", you get male-cow effluvium. So contrary to my sig, I don't know where to begin. :D
 
Southwind17 said:
Is it possible, I wonder, whether he somehow naturally acquired his cold reading skills, as opposed to being taught them or consciously learning them, and, therefore, honestly believes he has some rare, special skill that he genuinely interprets as communicating with the deceased, but is unable to explain it. Is that possible?
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It is entirely possible for people to genuinely believe they're honing their "psychic" skills when all they're really doing is subconsciously getting better at the tricks of the trade of cold reading. (I believe there is at least one person on this board who has been there, and then came over to our side once she figured out what was really going on.) There are also those who start off knowingly learning cold reading, but then once they've gotten good at it and internalized the process to the point where they can do it intuitively without thinking about it, start believing they're genuinely psychic to varying degrees. (Hard for many of us to believe, but true.) So what you end up with is an entire spectrum of belief, from those who honestly believe they're the real deal, to those who believe they're mixing real psychic abilities with cold reading tricks, to those who know there's nothing supernatural to it.

Determining where any given person is along that spectrum, is tricky. But as long as we're in pure speculation mode, I would be very surprised if JE really believed he was communicating with dead people. Besides the fact of being on TV and having to make a slick and entertaining show, his mannerisms are too studied, too pat, too used-car-salesman. In contrast, I've heard from someone who knew the producer of Lisa Williams' show that she completely believes in her own abilities -- and from what little I've seen of her, that doesn't surprise me at all.
 
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Gord_in_Toronto said:
At least when you pay for sex, you get sex. When you pay for communications from the "great beyond", you get male-cow effluvium. So contrary to my sig, I don't know where to begin. :D
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You see, I think you're wrong. People who go to see mediums go to receive comfort, and that's generally what they get. Yes, there's a strong inference, often explicit, that underpins it, but you just watch their faces when they're fed a reassuring snippet. I think many people just want to put an old ghost to rest, and that's what a medium does for them. Still not defending them, mind!
 
People don't pay someone to make up a story and pretend to be talking to their deceased loved one in order to feel better. What makes them feel better is believing that the medium is in fact talking to their deceased loved one.

I don't know how it would be possible to determine whether JE really believes he has abilities or whether he's acting, unless you know him personally or can catch him hot reading.

People like Peter Popoff and Sylvia Browne appear to be knowingly deceiving the public, but that doesn't mean there aren't others (maybe, as Quinn said, Lisa Williams is one) who are self-deluded but with good intentions. It would be nice to think they are all just self-deluded and not heartless enough to fake this kind of thing in dealing with grief and human suffering, but the evidence seems to indicate that just isn't the case.
 
I could see his rationalization being that what he's really offering is entertainment. It's not that much different than a lot of other crap on TV.

ETA: I forgot to add: John Edward is a douche!
 
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Edward is a charlatan, albeit a "clever" one. He knows his market and he panders to it. He'll never put himself in a position where he could be plainly exposed, like all the rest of them, and I include all the "religious" charlatans as well -- people like Hinn, Haggard, et al. They're all part of the woo economy.


M.




M.
 
I don't know John Edward and I can't psychoanalyze him but my take is that John Edward is a knowing charlatan who occassionally comes off as sincere because he justifies it to himself as "helping" the victims.

He is out for himself first but is oblivious or in denial of the harm he is doing and refuses to believe that he is doing something bad. He's not motivated by cruelty but by lazyness, stubborness and willfull ignorance as well as ignorant indifference.

As opposed to someone like Rosemary Altea, who most likely really believes that she is psychic.
 
Southwind17 said:
You see, I think you're wrong. People who go to see mediums go to receive comfort, and that's generally what they get. Yes, there's a strong inference, often explicit, that underpins it, but you just watch their faces when they're fed a reassuring snippet. I think many people just want to put an old ghost to rest, and that's what a medium does for them. Still not defending them, mind!
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1. The only faces you watch are the few that editing allows you to watch.

2. Your analysis of the benefit received is thin and hardly universal.

3. There is also no closure from visiting people like John Edward. Instead, the emotional pain is kept alive, and those who use mediums as their coping mechanism do not, in fact, learn to cope.

4. More acccurately and succinctly, the appearance of a few apparently relieved faces on a highly edited show does not provide any evidence at all that telling falsehoods to grieving people provides either comfort or closure.
 
Garrette said:
1. The only faces you watch are the few that editing allows you to watch.

2. Your analysis of the benefit received is thin and hardly universal.

3. There is also no closure from visiting people like John Edward. Instead, the emotional pain is kept alive, and those who use mediums as their coping mechanism do not, in fact, learn to cope.

4. More acccurately and succinctly, the appearance of a few apparently relieved faces on a highly edited show does not provide any evidence at all that telling falsehoods to grieving people provides either comfort or closure.
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Your response number 3 is precisely what a friend who is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in bereavement and grief consuling says. These necromancers keep the process from healing.

As to John Edward's integrity, I have heard him state baldfaced lies. At a local booksigning event, he stated that a doctor told him that his powers were due to the fact that, while most people use %10 of their brains, John actually used %15!
 
Southwind17 said:
I briefly watched John Edward for the first time on TV last night. I say "briefly" because even if I wasn't anti-mediums the trailer I kept seeing, to me, showed him as the most obnoxious of "entertainers". That smug, condescending face he makes when his "victim" suddenly recalls a detail that initially eluded them, despite Edward's initial insistence as to its relevance and importance. I just happened to flick onto the channel towards the end and endured it for around 10 minutes.

But that said, I can't help wondering whether he, and those like him, actually believe in what they're doing. Is it possible, I wonder, whether he somehow naturally acquired his cold reading skills, as opposed to being taught them or consciously learning them, and, therefore, honestly believes he has some rare, special skill that he genuinely interprets as communicating with the deceased, but is unable to explain it. Is that possible?

I struggle to see how a charlatan can so willingly and overtly expose himself to the mass media, or does he take sufficient comfort in knowing that the people who fall for his antics are those who desperately want to believe in him, and that they're seemingly in the majority, thereby affording him "safety in numbers"?

Maybe he can simply sleep soundly at night feeling that, although he knows he's a fake, he feels he's nonetheless helping people come to terms, a kind of "human placebo".
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Well John Edwards doesn't just do cold reading he also imposes his will on the audience member. NO your wrong this did actually happen, yes it did, yes yes it did, are just some of the ways he does his imposing manner. He knows what he's doing is crap and he has been caught at it and pinned down by reporters for it, and just sit's and smiles like the cat that ate the mouse. Make no mistake John Edwards is aware of everything he is doing and he doesn't care one bit who he hurts. And he also knows there are those gullible people that are going to bellieve in him no matter how much proof there is against him. You would think people would be so much smarter than this but alot of them just never learn. i don't believe this is a placebo more like money in the bank.
 
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Jeff Corey said:
Your response number 3 is precisely what a friend who is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in bereavement and grief consuling says. These necromancers keep the process from healing.

As to John Edward's integrity, I have heard him state baldfaced lies. At a local booksigning event, he stated that a doctor told him that his powers were due to the fact that, while most people use %10 of their brains, John actually used %15!
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I fully believe that JE uses 15% of what passes for his brain.
 
Jeff Corey said:
Your response number 3 is precisely what a friend who is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in bereavement and grief consuling says. These necromancers keep the process from healing.

As to John Edward's integrity, I have heard him state baldfaced lies. At a local booksigning event, he stated that a doctor told him that his powers were due to the fact that, while most people use %10 of their brains, John actually used %15!
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And heres a great point From Mr. Corey that people that actually do this to help people through the greiving process are Licensed by states. So I am curious why don't these alleged psychics, and meduims have to go through that same licensing.
 
Jeff Corey said:
As to John Edward's integrity, I have heard him state baldfaced lies. At a local booksigning event, he stated that a doctor told him that his powers were due to the fact that, while most people use %10 of their brains, John actually used %15!
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I rarely do this, but: *facepalm*
 
Interesting. I thought it was one of those palms to the forehead sort of things, also accompanied by a "d'oh!".
 
JE lobbied mightily to produce a show wherein he would comfort the survivors of 9/11 victims. Thankfully, decency prevailed among the TV/Cable operators.

There are few more despicable than JE. Just a turd!
 
Southwind17 said:
You see, I think you're wrong. People who go to see mediums go to receive comfort, and that's generally what they get. Yes, there's a strong inference, often explicit, that underpins it, but you just watch their faces when they're fed a reassuring snippet. I think many people just want to put an old ghost to rest, and that's what a medium does for them. Still not defending them, mind!
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They may generally want and get comfort but not all the time; see http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/ for some of the damage this crook has caused. Any "comfort" for some has to be balanced by the harm for some. Again, my sig states my position.
 
No way John Edward believes his spiel.His whole "frame of refernence" jargon tells you that.
I watch him form time to time and the other day he came out with this"Who's French? whose got the French connection..cos theyr'e showing me Pepe Le Pew..when I see that I know they want me to reference France!"

What if they want to reference Pepe Le Pew? On ly people of a certain age bracket will know Pepe Le Pew so it can't be a reference in general as he says.WHy not just show him a French flag? A string of oniions? The word "France/French" in big letters?!

His dumbass symbolisms get on my nerves.
 
In other words, Bull. Surely you get what he's trying to say? He may not have been technically accurate in that description, sure, is that all you mean? Perhaps male-bovine would have been better?

not trying to pick at you Tricky, you are, after all, the Language Dictator ;)
 
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Southwind17 said:
You see, I think you're wrong. People who go to see mediums go to receive comfort, and that's generally what they get. Yes, there's a strong inference, often explicit, that underpins it, but you just watch their faces when they're fed a reassuring snippet. I think many people just want to put an old ghost to rest, and that's what a medium does for them. Still not defending them, mind!
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My big problem with the comfort they receive, is just how devastated would these people be if they knew that everything they have been told is just lies. Blatent lies at the end of the day.

I'm on some woo forums, and there are people there who, especially in their older years, admit that they need to believe just to live without the fear of dying. The same people don't understand cold reading even when it is blatently pointed out to them, they interpret things like several people picking up on the same message from a psychic as proof of his powers as opposed to deliberate cold reading.

I wonder how ethical it is to lie to these people long term. If psychics weren't making a penny from their activities, then I could possibly see an argument for, but as it is, many psychics (in the UK at least) are making an awful lot of money from perpetuating this myth.
 
Garrette and FarSideOfTheMoon have responded more succinctly than I could. However, let me also give you some background on why I think 1) John Edward is a fake, and 2) he knows he is...

(By the way, I have said this before in previous threads, but I don't want to waste time digging through all my old posts.)

A friend of mine is a dance instructor here on Long Island, and has known JE for several years (they used to move in the same circles). Back then, JE wasn't well-known, but was "working his craft". As I recall, he didn't blatantly announce to all that he could talk to the dead, but word travelled that he had some kind of "gift", and did "readings".

At one point, my friend and JE were watching a psychic/medium do his thing on TV, and there were comments on how cheesy the guy was. At that point JE said to my friend something like, "I could do that so much better". The implication being that JE's "act" was better. This made my friend think, "But I thought you were real."

I know this is all hearsay, but it gave me a little more insight into the mind of John Edward.

(I've tried to get my friend to visit randi.org, and join the forum, but he is an old school luddite. Sorry.)
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
I could see his rationalization being that what he's really offering is entertainment. It's not that much different than a lot of other crap on TV.

ETA: I forgot to add: John Edward is a douche!
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I noticed that it is easy to assume a tacit understanding that it is just elaborate roleplay if you play psychic for fun. It is probably a false assumption with many people, but it makes it tempting to simply forget the 'for entertaining purposes only'-disclaimer, and it would serve well if he indeed would rationalize this way.
 
blauregen said:
I noticed that it is easy to assume a tacit understanding that it is just elaborate roleplay if you play psychic for fun. It is probably a false assumption with many people, but it makes it tempting to simply forget the 'for entertaining purposes only'-disclaimer, and it would serve well if he indeed would rationalize this way.
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I think there's plenty of stuff done on the shows themselves to show that the "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer is a charade.

However, I meant that I could see an obvious con-artist like Edward (that is, it's clear from his behavior that he isn't a believer himself) use that as a justification in his own mind.

After all, a magician entertains people by trickery. It'd be nice if all magicians kept it nice and tidy and clear that what they're presenting are illusions or tricks and not actual feats of magic, but that's not always the case. Nowadays we even have guys like David Blaine really blurring the line between conjuring and actual stunts.

I've also once saw a small-time Christian magician use the term "miracles" for his illusions. It was clear from the context and presentation that he didn't mean they were actual supernatural miracles, though.

There are idiots who believe that what David Copperfield does onstage is proof of paranormal or supernatural powers. How much responsibility does Copperfield bear to disabuse them of that notion?

Still, John Edward is a douche.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
However, I meant that I could see an obvious con-artist like Edward (that is, it's clear from his behavior that he isn't a believer himself) use that as a justification in his own mind.

Still, John Edward is a douche.
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From what I read about him. I agree on both points.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
However, I meant that I could see an obvious con-artist like Edward (that is, it's clear from his behavior that he isn't a believer himself) use that as a justification in his own mind.
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There is another point to it that I think serves as justification. As a psychic on this scale you have a lot of people who believe strongly in your abilities and would suffer considerable stress if they had to convince themselves otherwise.

John Edward couldn't ever admit to only doing entertainment,even if he wanted to, because it would mean to let his fans down.
 
blauregen said:
...

John Edward couldn't ever admit to only doing entertainment,even if he wanted to, because it would mean to let his fans down.
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Even if he did, there would be many (if not most) who wouldn't believe him. They'd still think he was psychic.
 
I watched this guys "show" on tv this evening, despicable (5 mins is all i could stomach). By a combination of fishing and suggestion, he had the audience volunteering to confirm his vague guesses and ignore his complete misses.

Whilst I would suggest that a minority of the small-time deluded mediums are sincerely deluded, all of those making money are doing it in full knowledge that they are liars, frauds and cheats.

How else do you explain the use of blatant and sophisticated psychological techniques to manipulate large numbers of individuals? How else do you explain that not one of them EVER gives a correct, specific detail whilst pertaining to have real and direct contact with the deceased?

i think we, as a skeptical bunch, should be making more of an effort to disrupt the activities of these liars and manipulators. Picket your local spiritualist "church" in the style of Pastor Phelps (perhaps a few "God hates Frauds" posters are in order).:p

rant over :-)
 
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