Roswell discussed on Larry King

Monza · 4th July 2008, 06:55 PM

On today's Larry King Show they discussed the Roswell incident with most panelists being those who believe it was the crash of an alien space craft. There was no new evidence discussed, just pretty much the same thing. Most of the "evidence" was second-hand hearsay accounts. About the only first-hand tangible evidence was a man who claimed to be part of the recovery crew to pick up debris from the New Mexican desert. The funny part was that he described the debris as like tinfoil, which was exactly what the Project Mogel targets were made from.

Apollo astronaut Edwin Mitchell was also a guest. He has a history of woo beliefs and didn't add anything to the discussion. Another guest was Frankie Rowe, who claims her father was on the scene due to his position as a firefighter. While there he spoke with a dying alien. I remember hearing something a couple years ago that someone determined that her father didn't actually join the fire department until a couple years after 1947. Does anyone know more about this?

The only reasonable person, brought on as the token skeptic, was Bill Nye (the Science Guy). He kept trying to point out the lack of any real evidence despite the others claiming it was overwhelming. Edgar Mitchell actually got mad at him and told him to shut up. Fortunately, Bill is a nice guy and kept a smile on his face and did us skeptics proud.

fuelair · 4th July 2008, 07:04 PM

On again in two hours - so I will DVD it !! Bunch of nutcakes and the NYE guy telling the truth!!!

roseglass · 4th July 2008, 07:41 PM

Thank you for posting this - will also keep an eye out for the show.

tapman · 5th July 2008, 02:22 AM

Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests. performance like this really hurt us skeptics because of the unlikability factor. Such a smart and likable guy to begin with could have done better with some manners. He crushed the other guests, and made them look stupid, I wish he would have been a little more polite.

dustbunny · 5th July 2008, 07:23 AM

You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident? I haven't been able to watch the Larry King show, being here in England, but I've seen other programmes talking about this and similar subjects and a lot of the people seemed credible to me. Maybe I just need a bit more information on it! I'm eager to learn.

Sefarst · 5th July 2008, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by dustbunny

You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident?

I think the working explanation of what happened is that we were developing high altitude balloons with audio equipment to monitor Soviet nuclear weapons tests. One of these balloons crashed, the military had to hush it up, and the locals were more than happy to embrace a story about aliens.

Then, something like decades later, people started saying that they not only had seen the debris, but they saw aliens bodies too. A product of overactive imaginations, if you ask me.

So why all the continued secrecy? What's really going on at Roswell? My guess is that its probably a nuclear weapons facility, given that the Enola Gay was stationed there for some time, the Enola Gay being the airplane that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

Amapola · 5th July 2008, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by dustbunny

You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident? I haven't been able to watch the Larry King show, being here in England, but I've seen other programmes talking about this and similar subjects and a lot of the people seemed credible to me. Maybe I just need a bit more information on it! I'm eager to learn.

Here's a guy that wrote an article, he also wrote a book after much research: What Really Happened at Roswell.

I live in NM and go to Roswell for carriage driving competitions. Most people take it as a light-hearted joke there, though no doubt you could find a few that take the UFO thing seriously. There is a UFO museum in town which I found interesting and amusing (I even got an "Area 51" T-shirt in the shop, though of course Area 51 is not in NM) and many buildings and shops have a UFO or alien theme. That makes it nice for the tourists.

But I think if you actually research the "incident" you'll find quite mundane explanations. For example, a piece of metal was found that was supposed to be of alien origin. The analysis showed it was of very earthly origin. The story of how it got where it was, and came to be tested, is very interesting - but completely normal, with no UFOs in sight. Oh well!

dustbunny · 5th July 2008, 11:33 AM

Thanks Sefarst and Amapola that has helped a lot. I'd love to visit Roswell, I prefer the real facts rather than a dramatization. I'll keep reading. The things you've given me are far better than a slap, anyday!

Southwind17 · 5th July 2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by dustbunny

I'd love to visit Roswell, I prefer the real facts rather than a dramatization.

And what "real facts" (as opposed to "unreal facts"?!), exactly, would you hope/expect to discover?

Stellafane · 5th July 2008, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by tapman

Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests. performance like this really hurt us skeptics because of the unlikability factor. Such a smart and likable guy to begin with could have done better with some manners. He crushed the other guests, and made them look stupid, I wish he would have been a little more polite.

Hi Tapman. I'd like to offer you a bit of advice, if I may so presume. It's this: Intelligent people, with a little practice, can successfully pretend to be stupid. But stupid people, no matter how hard they try to sound intelligent, will always come off as stupid.

kerikiwi · 5th July 2008, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by tapman

He ... made them look stupid.

Not at all. They did that all by themselves. It is one of the few things they are good at. Give credit where credit is due.

AtomicMysteryMonster · 5th July 2008, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by dustbunny

You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident?

Here ya go.

Monza · 5th July 2008, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by tapman

Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests. performance like this really hurt us skeptics because of the unlikability factor. Such a smart and likable guy to begin with could have done better with some manners. He crushed the other guests, and made them look stupid, I wish he would have been a little more polite.

I think Bill Nye came off rather well. It must be difficult when you are on a program as the lone voice of your side of the fence. Your time management becomes critical. He said several times that we wasn't trying to convince the guests but was trying to reach those in the audience who had an open mind. So it was important for him to point out the logical and critical thinking talking points. But in my opinion, I didn't see him as rude. Now Edgar Mitchell was rude.

DevilsAdvocate · 6th July 2008, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by dustbunny

You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident? I haven't been able to watch the Larry King show, being here in England, but I've seen other programmes talking about this and similar subjects and a lot of the people seemed credible to me. Maybe I just need a bit more information on it! I'm eager to learn.

Try http://www.csicop.org/ Search on Klass, Mogul, Skyhook, and Gildenberg. In particular, http://www.csicop.org/si/9707/roswell.html The "Roswell incident" has been put down every which way to Sunday.

The true story of Roswell probably runs something like this:

On June 24, 1947, pilot Kenneth Arnold sees something (a flock of birds in unusual light or a mirage or some such similar thing) and reports it as unidentified flying objects that appeared like saucers skipping across water. The media picks up the story and suddenly UFOs and flying saucers become all the rage. People become hysterical about UFOs and mysterious flying disks. Meanwhile, a ranch hand near Roswell Air Force Base had found some debris from Project Mogul on the ranch and on July 7, 1947, after hearing the news reports about flying saucers, reported the debris as a flying saucer to the local sheriff. The sheriff contacted Roswell AFB. Low-level military personnel were sent to investigate and collect the debris. These personnel then reported that the disc had been recovered. They, of course, knew nothing about Project Mogul. Higher level military quickly issued a statement that the debris was a weather balloon, the pre-designated cover story for Project Mogul. The ranch hand said it did not look like a weather balloon, which would be true because it had lots of tin foil and sticks and kites and stuff that don’t look like a normal weather balloon because it was actually a top-secret “spy satellite” balloon”. It ended there. Until 1978, when author Stanton T. Friedman decided to make a big deal out of it. It got hype and became a big deal.

There is nothing there. Unless you let your imagination go wild. The Skyhook and Blue Book projects went on, with even more UFO alien reports. My favorite is a clip from the 1950s where a guy says he was abducted by aleins who are just like us and spent a week with them on Jupiter. I wonder where on the gaseous planet Jupiter they found suitable ground to build homes.

There is truth in the Roswell incident. It was Project Mogul. There are no little green men from Jupiter.

DevilsAdvocate · 6th July 2008, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by tapman

Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests.

Hmmmm...Maybe Nye could be Randi's successor?

dustbunny · 6th July 2008, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Southwind17

And what "real facts" (as opposed to "unreal facts"?!), exactly, would you hope/expect to discover?

I've absolutely no idea, but it's an experience I'm sure I'd enjoy. No harm in trying!

Southwind17 · 6th July 2008, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by dustbunny

I've absolutely no idea, but it's an experience I'm sure I'd enjoy. No harm in trying!

Ah, I see, "an experience I'm sure I'd enjoy." I have little doubt. But as for gathering "real facts", as you first stated, ...

blutoski · 6th July 2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Amapola

(I even got an "Area 51" T-shirt in the shop, though of course Area 51 is not in NM)

Phhht. Some skeptic you are. Area 51 is a decoy. All the real action is at Area 52.

(I use this on my UFO nut friends - drives them crazy to suddenly be accused of "buying into" the mainstream story)

Patricio Elicer · 6th July 2008, 07:55 PM

Anyone knows if the program was uploaded to YouTube?. Link?

Thanks in advance, I missed it.

Monza · 6th July 2008, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Patricio Elicer

Anyone knows if the program was uploaded to YouTube?. Link?

Thanks in advance, I missed it.

It looks like it is up here.

dustbunny · 7th July 2008, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Southwind17

Ah, I see, "an experience I'm sure I'd enjoy." I have little doubt. But as for gathering "real facts", as you first stated, ...

Maybe the wrong choice of words but we sometimes learn things when we least expect it. Like I said there's no harm in trying and if the only positive result is a good holiday then my journey was worth it!

Astrophotographer · 7th July 2008, 06:53 AM

Roswell is a great source of money for UFOlogists. Don Schmitt, who was caught lying about so many things including his resume' , is still able to make a living mining old peoples distorted memories of what they think they know about the Roswell "crash". Considering the large number of "reliable eyewitnesses" that had surfaced over the years, only to be exposed as liars and tall tale tellers, one would think people would be more skeptical. Alas, this is not so. I have written extensively about Roswell on my webpage:
http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/rwell.html

Carey and Schmitt's new book on Roswell is a joke:

http://members.aol.com/TPrinty2/vultures.html

I still get all sorts of emails from proponents (including Kevin Randle recently) with all sorts of claims that I am debunking the greatest event in UFO history. One would think that if it really happpened, it would not be too hard to defend. There would be tons of evidence from various sources (i.e. numerous communications between upper chains of command talking about the spaceship, etc) that would back up these stories. UFO proponents have all sorts of excuses for the lack of evidence and always fall back to the faded memories of 80 and 90 year olds or second/third hand stories told by their children in order to promote the myth.

tapman · 7th July 2008, 10:12 AM

Now back to the thread---------

You have to old Larry King credit for at least having a skeptic on with all the crazies. A good one too. I found it interesting that none of the other guests could keep up with Nye.

tapman · 7th July 2008, 10:40 AM

Now back to the thread--------

Why isn't it ok to let a few elderly folks from small town NM have thier fantasy. I went to Roswell once. It is actually entertaining to see all the alien stuff. If a few kids have a good time at the museum is it actually a bad thing.

I sure hope that guy goes away soon. He is really doing his best to ruin a good thread.

dustbunny · 7th July 2008, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by tapman

Now back to the thread--------

Why isn't it ok to let a few elderly folks from small town NM have thier fantasy. I went to Roswell once. It is actually entertaining to see all the alien stuff. If a few kids have a good time at the museum is it actually a bad thing.

I agree tapman. I've believed for years that Roswell was real and some of the members on this forum have thankfully given me alternative theories to look at. I find that if you don't bombard people with your opinions you actually get through to someone better by showing them evidence, even a general chat with a coffee can go a long way.

I'd love to go and see Roswell for myself plus about a thousand more places in America (yes I'm a fan of the states). At least I could show people genuine and conclusive "evidence" that I'd been there, even if it was only a T-shirt or a blow up E.T.

Mind you they would have to be stamped with Made In Roswell and only sold here!

tapman · 7th July 2008, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by dustbunny

I agree tapman. I've believed for years that Roswell was real and some of the members on this forum have thankfully given me alternative theories to look at. I find that if you don't bombard people with your opinions you actually get through to someone better by showing them evidence, even a general chat with a coffee can go a long way.

I'd love to go and see Roswell for myself plus about a thousand more places in America (yes I'm a fan of the states). At least I could show people genuine and conclusive "evidence" that I'd been there, even if it was only a T-shirt or a blow up E.T.

I live in New Mexico, and have had some of those "interesting conversations". While deer hunting on a ranch in Lincoln County I was approached by the ranch owner. Nice guy just making sure we weren't bothering his herd. We ended up talking to him for quite a while and asked about the aircraft that were flying over us all night. He said he hear they were testing something new at the nearby base, and had been doing it for a few weeks. My friend made a flying saucer Roswell joke, and the old guy got real serious and told us about a piece of metal from the ship his father brought home. He said he could crumple it up with his hand, and throw it down on the table really hard, and it would go back to its original form. Whether you believe him or not, it was a pretty interesting story. It was hard not to believe him actually.

Not an endorsement, just an interesting story I thought I'd tell.

dustbunny · 7th July 2008, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by tapman

I live in New Mexico, and have had some of those "interesting conversations". While deer hunting on a ranch in Lincoln County I was approached by the ranch owner. Nice guy just making sure we weren't bothering his herd. We ended up talking to him for quite a while and asked about the aircraft that were flying over us all night. He said he hear they were testing something new at the nearby base, and had been doing it for a few weeks. My friend made a flying saucer Roswell joke, and the old guy got real serious and told us about a piece of metal from the ship his father brought home. He said he could crumple it up with his hand, and throw it down on the table really hard, and it would go back to its original form. Whether you believe him or not, it was a pretty interesting story. It was hard not to believe him actually.

Not an endorsement, just an interesting story I thought I'd tell.

Sometimes different opinions help you to decide one way or another and if this gentleman believed it who are we to question why? I'd love to believe it was real and I'm sure I'd heard in the past that some of the people involved with the original investigation had taken polygraph tests to prove their stories. Of course I know it's not foolproof but it gave it a bit more credibility for me.

I must admit though if what I've read is right from other members on here it does throw a very different light on things. A very interesting story that I'll keeping reading on!

tapman · 7th July 2008, 02:46 PM

Now back to the thread----

I'm really trying here people, but I feel I should help these poor boys before they look even more ridicuous.

Your right dusty, I love that Roswel story. It has all the trappings of a good debate. Fun for everyone!!

Patricio Elicer · 7th July 2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Monza

It looks like it is up here.

Thanks. Bill Nye is not in that segment, however, nor is Edgar Mitchell.

AliasN · 7th July 2008, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Stellafane

Hi Tapman. I'd like to offer you a bit of advice, if I may so presume. It's this: Intelligent people, with a little practice, can successfully pretend to be stupid. But stupid people, no matter how hard they try to sound intelligent, will always come off as stupid.

Stallafane, my thoughts exactly.

Meanwhile...

Southwind17 · 7th July 2008, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by dustbunny

Maybe the wrong choice of words but we sometimes learn things when we least expect it. Like I said there's no harm in trying and if the only positive result is a good holiday then my journey was worth it!

Just like there's no harm in trying a psychic? Enjoy the road trip

Southwind17 · 7th July 2008, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Monza

It looks like it is up here.

Why is it that most of my linking to Youtube videos comes up with "We're sorry this vidoe is no longer available."? Can everybody else link to this one?

roseglass · 8th July 2008, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Southwind17

Why is it that most of my linking to Youtube videos comes up with "We're sorry this vidoe is no longer available."? Can everybody else link to this one?

Glad someone posted a link too. I was just able to get it to work after refreshing the browser [F5] and then it loaded.

Skeptic Ginger · 8th July 2008, 12:40 AM

That Roswell woman who claims Daddy saw the aliens seems to have confabulated her story even more. The details get clearer and clearer as time passes.

roseglass · 8th July 2008, 12:47 AM

I like the reply on youtube from Joesixstring, :

"The simple truth is, no alien craft crashed at Roswell."

Not sure if that's the angle people will get from Larry King's show.

chillzero · 8th July 2008, 04:10 AM

Posts removed from thread for personalising the issue and bickering off topic. Keep to the topic please.

Posted By:chillzero

tapman · 8th July 2008, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by roseglass

I like the reply on youtube from Joesixstring, :

"The simple truth is, no alien craft crashed at Roswell."

Not sure if that's the angle people will get from Larry King's show.

Where is your proof?

technoextreme · 8th July 2008, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by tapman

I live in New Mexico, and have had some of those "interesting conversations". While deer hunting on a ranch in Lincoln County I was approached by the ranch owner. Nice guy just making sure we weren't bothering his herd. We ended up talking to him for quite a while and asked about the aircraft that were flying over us all night. He said he hear they were testing something new at the nearby base, and had been doing it for a few weeks. My friend made a flying saucer Roswell joke, and the old guy got real serious and told us about a piece of metal from the ship his father brought home. He said he could crumple it up with his hand, and throw it down on the table really hard, and it would go back to its original form. Whether you believe him or not, it was a pretty interesting story. It was hard not to believe him actually.

Not an endorsement, just an interesting story I thought I'd tell.

You know I just realized something. A material that you can crumple up and then have it return to it's original form is not alien. I can order it online. It does the same thing that this guy claims is fantastic. Im pretty sure they use it as a stints because the material can puff up to expand the artery once it's in the heart. So it is actually possible that he has a material crumples and then uncrumples itself. The problem is that it sure as hell not alien. After a quick search on wikipedia apparently Boeing is actually using shape memory alloys in their newest jets. Oooo weeee Oooo weeee woooooo.
PS:
For those of you trying to claim that shape memory alloy is alien technology that classification of material was discovered 17 years before the incident.

GoodGuysEatPie · 8th July 2008, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by tapman

Where is your proof?

Proof of what? That somebody posted that in the comments at YouTube, or that there was no alien craft at Roswell?

~ggep~

dustbunny · 8th July 2008, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Southwind17

Just like there's no harm in trying a psychic? Enjoy the road trip

Sadly I'd have to invent my own psychic powers to earn the money just to get there. Ah well!!

4th July 2008, 06:55 PM	#1
Monza Alta Viro Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,700	Roswell discussed on Larry King On today's Larry King Show they discussed the Roswell incident with most panelists being those who believe it was the crash of an alien space craft. There was no new evidence discussed, just pretty much the same thing. Most of the "evidence" was second-hand hearsay accounts. About the only first-hand tangible evidence was a man who claimed to be part of the recovery crew to pick up debris from the New Mexican desert. The funny part was that he described the debris as like tinfoil, which was exactly what the Project Mogel targets were made from. Apollo astronaut Edwin Mitchell was also a guest. He has a history of woo beliefs and didn't add anything to the discussion. Another guest was Frankie Rowe, who claims her father was on the scene due to his position as a firefighter. While there he spoke with a dying alien. I remember hearing something a couple years ago that someone determined that her father didn't actually join the fire department until a couple years after 1947. Does anyone know more about this? The only reasonable person, brought on as the token skeptic, was Bill Nye (the Science Guy). He kept trying to point out the lack of any real evidence despite the others claiming it was overwhelming. Edgar Mitchell actually got mad at him and told him to shut up. Fortunately, Bill is a nice guy and kept a smile on his face and did us skeptics proud.
Monza Alta Viro Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,700

4th July 2008, 07:04 PM	#2
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 45,100	On again in two hours - so I will DVD it !! Bunch of nutcakes and the NYE guy telling the truth!!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 45,100

4th July 2008, 07:41 PM	#3
roseglass Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 146	Thank you for posting this - will also keep an eye out for the show.
roseglass Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 146

5th July 2008, 02:22 AM	#4
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125	Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests. performance like this really hurt us skeptics because of the unlikability factor. Such a smart and likable guy to begin with could have done better with some manners. He crushed the other guests, and made them look stupid, I wish he would have been a little more polite.
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125

5th July 2008, 07:23 AM	#5
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248	You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident? I haven't been able to watch the Larry King show, being here in England, but I've seen other programmes talking about this and similar subjects and a lot of the people seemed credible to me. Maybe I just need a bit more information on it! I'm eager to learn.
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248

5th July 2008, 07:44 AM	#6
Sefarst Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,237	Originally Posted by dustbunny You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident? I think the working explanation of what happened is that we were developing high altitude balloons with audio equipment to monitor Soviet nuclear weapons tests. One of these balloons crashed, the military had to hush it up, and the locals were more than happy to embrace a story about aliens. Then, something like decades later, people started saying that they not only had seen the debris, but they saw aliens bodies too. A product of overactive imaginations, if you ask me. So why all the continued secrecy? What's really going on at Roswell? My guess is that its probably a nuclear weapons facility, given that the Enola Gay was stationed there for some time, the Enola Gay being the airplane that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.
Sefarst Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,237

5th July 2008, 10:01 AM	#7
Amapola Guest Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,258	Originally Posted by dustbunny You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident? I haven't been able to watch the Larry King show, being here in England, but I've seen other programmes talking about this and similar subjects and a lot of the people seemed credible to me. Maybe I just need a bit more information on it! I'm eager to learn. Here's a guy that wrote an article, he also wrote a book after much research: What Really Happened at Roswell. I live in NM and go to Roswell for carriage driving competitions. Most people take it as a light-hearted joke there, though no doubt you could find a few that take the UFO thing seriously. There is a UFO museum in town which I found interesting and amusing (I even got an "Area 51" T-shirt in the shop, though of course Area 51 is not in NM) and many buildings and shops have a UFO or alien theme. That makes it nice for the tourists. But I think if you actually research the "incident" you'll find quite mundane explanations. For example, a piece of metal was found that was supposed to be of alien origin. The analysis showed it was of very earthly origin. The story of how it got where it was, and came to be tested, is very interesting - but completely normal, with no UFOs in sight. Oh well!
Amapola Guest Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,258

5th July 2008, 11:33 AM	#8
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248	Thanks Sefarst and Amapola that has helped a lot. I'd love to visit Roswell, I prefer the real facts rather than a dramatization. I'll keep reading. The things you've given me are far better than a slap, anyday!
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248

5th July 2008, 11:50 AM	#9
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,916	Originally Posted by dustbunny I'd love to visit Roswell, I prefer the real facts rather than a dramatization. And what "real facts" (as opposed to "unreal facts"?!), exactly, would you hope/expect to discover?
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,916	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind. "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use.

5th July 2008, 12:21 PM	#10
Stellafane Village Idiot. Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 7,461	Originally Posted by tapman Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests. performance like this really hurt us skeptics because of the unlikability factor. Such a smart and likable guy to begin with could have done better with some manners. He crushed the other guests, and made them look stupid, I wish he would have been a little more polite. Hi Tapman. I'd like to offer you a bit of advice, if I may so presume. It's this: Intelligent people, with a little practice, can successfully pretend to be stupid. But stupid people, no matter how hard they try to sound intelligent, will always come off as stupid.
	__________________ Another Shameless Googlebomb Plug for www.stopsylvia.com

5th July 2008, 01:26 PM	#11
kerikiwi Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,175	Originally Posted by tapman He ... made them look stupid. Not at all. They did that all by themselves. It is one of the few things they are good at. Give credit where credit is due.
kerikiwi Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,175

5th July 2008, 01:47 PM	#12
AtomicMysteryMonster Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	Originally Posted by dustbunny You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident? Here ya go.
	__________________ Open your mind and let the sun shine in. Let a wild hairy ape in there too, would you please? - William Parcher You can fool too many of the people too much of the time. - James Thurber

5th July 2008, 04:41 PM	#13
Monza Alta Viro Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,700	Originally Posted by tapman Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests. performance like this really hurt us skeptics because of the unlikability factor. Such a smart and likable guy to begin with could have done better with some manners. He crushed the other guests, and made them look stupid, I wish he would have been a little more polite. I think Bill Nye came off rather well. It must be difficult when you are on a program as the lone voice of your side of the fence. Your time management becomes critical. He said several times that we wasn't trying to convince the guests but was trying to reach those in the audience who had an open mind. So it was important for him to point out the logical and critical thinking talking points. But in my opinion, I didn't see him as rude. Now Edgar Mitchell was rude.
Monza Alta Viro Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,700

6th July 2008, 12:24 AM	#14
DevilsAdvocate Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,356	Originally Posted by dustbunny You'll probably want to slap me for this but surely there must be some kind of truth in the Roswell incident? I haven't been able to watch the Larry King show, being here in England, but I've seen other programmes talking about this and similar subjects and a lot of the people seemed credible to me. Maybe I just need a bit more information on it! I'm eager to learn. Try http://www.csicop.org/ Search on Klass, Mogul, Skyhook, and Gildenberg. In particular, http://www.csicop.org/si/9707/roswell.html The "Roswell incident" has been put down every which way to Sunday. The true story of Roswell probably runs something like this: On June 24, 1947, pilot Kenneth Arnold sees something (a flock of birds in unusual light or a mirage or some such similar thing) and reports it as unidentified flying objects that appeared like saucers skipping across water. The media picks up the story and suddenly UFOs and flying saucers become all the rage. People become hysterical about UFOs and mysterious flying disks. Meanwhile, a ranch hand near Roswell Air Force Base had found some debris from Project Mogul on the ranch and on July 7, 1947, after hearing the news reports about flying saucers, reported the debris as a flying saucer to the local sheriff. The sheriff contacted Roswell AFB. Low-level military personnel were sent to investigate and collect the debris. These personnel then reported that the disc had been recovered. They, of course, knew nothing about Project Mogul. Higher level military quickly issued a statement that the debris was a weather balloon, the pre-designated cover story for Project Mogul. The ranch hand said it did not look like a weather balloon, which would be true because it had lots of tin foil and sticks and kites and stuff that don’t look like a normal weather balloon because it was actually a top-secret “spy satellite” balloon”. It ended there. Until 1978, when author Stanton T. Friedman decided to make a big deal out of it. It got hype and became a big deal. There is nothing there. Unless you let your imagination go wild. The Skyhook and Blue Book projects went on, with even more UFO alien reports. My favorite is a clip from the 1950s where a guy says he was abducted by aleins who are just like us and spent a week with them on Jupiter. I wonder where on the gaseous planet Jupiter they found suitable ground to build homes. There is truth in the Roswell incident. It was Project Mogul. There are no little green men from Jupiter.
	__________________ Heaven forbid someone reads these words and claims to be adversely affected by them, thus ensuring a barrage of lawsuits filed under the guise of protecting the unknowing victims who were stupid enough to read this and believe it! - Kevin Trudeau Last edited by DevilsAdvocate; 6th July 2008 at 12:26 AM.

6th July 2008, 12:32 AM	#15
DevilsAdvocate Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,356	Originally Posted by tapman Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests. Hmmmm...Maybe Nye could be Randi's successor?
	__________________ Heaven forbid someone reads these words and claims to be adversely affected by them, thus ensuring a barrage of lawsuits filed under the guise of protecting the unknowing victims who were stupid enough to read this and believe it! - Kevin Trudeau

6th July 2008, 07:26 AM	#16
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248	Originally Posted by Southwind17 And what "real facts" (as opposed to "unreal facts"?!), exactly, would you hope/expect to discover? I've absolutely no idea, but it's an experience I'm sure I'd enjoy. No harm in trying!
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248

6th July 2008, 12:12 PM	#17
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,916	Originally Posted by dustbunny I've absolutely no idea, but it's an experience I'm sure I'd enjoy. No harm in trying! Ah, I see, "an experience I'm sure I'd enjoy." I have little doubt. But as for gathering "real facts", as you first stated, ...
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,916	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind. "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use.

6th July 2008, 06:41 PM	#18
blutoski Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,994	Originally Posted by Amapola (I even got an "Area 51" T-shirt in the shop, though of course Area 51 is not in NM) Phhht. Some skeptic you are. Area 51 is a decoy. All the real action is at Area 52. (I use this on my UFO nut friends - drives them crazy to suddenly be accused of "buying into" the mainstream story)
blutoski Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,994	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

6th July 2008, 07:55 PM	#19
Patricio Elicer Obsessed with Reality Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 4,538	Anyone knows if the program was uploaded to YouTube?. Link? Thanks in advance, I missed it.
	__________________ The Universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition - Carl Sagan

6th July 2008, 11:32 PM	#20
Monza Alta Viro Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,700	Originally Posted by Patricio Elicer Anyone knows if the program was uploaded to YouTube?. Link? Thanks in advance, I missed it. It looks like it is up here.
Monza Alta Viro Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,700

7th July 2008, 06:50 AM	#21
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248	Originally Posted by Southwind17 Ah, I see, "an experience I'm sure I'd enjoy." I have little doubt. But as for gathering "real facts", as you first stated, ... Maybe the wrong choice of words but we sometimes learn things when we least expect it. Like I said there's no harm in trying and if the only positive result is a good holiday then my journey was worth it!
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248

7th July 2008, 06:53 AM	#22
Astrophotographer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,843	Roswell is a great source of money for UFOlogists. Don Schmitt, who was caught lying about so many things including his resume' , is still able to make a living mining old peoples distorted memories of what they think they know about the Roswell "crash". Considering the large number of "reliable eyewitnesses" that had surfaced over the years, only to be exposed as liars and tall tale tellers, one would think people would be more skeptical. Alas, this is not so. I have written extensively about Roswell on my webpage: http://members.aol.com/TPrinty/rwell.html Carey and Schmitt's new book on Roswell is a joke: http://members.aol.com/TPrinty2/vultures.html I still get all sorts of emails from proponents (including Kevin Randle recently) with all sorts of claims that I am debunking the greatest event in UFO history. One would think that if it really happpened, it would not be too hard to defend. There would be tons of evidence from various sources (i.e. numerous communications between upper chains of command talking about the spaceship, etc) that would back up these stories. UFO proponents have all sorts of excuses for the lack of evidence and always fall back to the faded memories of 80 and 90 year olds or second/third hand stories told by their children in order to promote the myth.

7th July 2008, 10:12 AM	#23
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125	Now back to the thread--------- You have to old Larry King credit for at least having a skeptic on with all the crazies. A good one too. I found it interesting that none of the other guests could keep up with Nye.
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125

7th July 2008, 10:40 AM	#24
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125	Now back to the thread-------- Why isn't it ok to let a few elderly folks from small town NM have thier fantasy. I went to Roswell once. It is actually entertaining to see all the alien stuff. If a few kids have a good time at the museum is it actually a bad thing. I sure hope that guy goes away soon. He is really doing his best to ruin a good thread.
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125

7th July 2008, 11:29 AM	#25
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248	Originally Posted by tapman Now back to the thread-------- Why isn't it ok to let a few elderly folks from small town NM have thier fantasy. I went to Roswell once. It is actually entertaining to see all the alien stuff. If a few kids have a good time at the museum is it actually a bad thing. I agree tapman. I've believed for years that Roswell was real and some of the members on this forum have thankfully given me alternative theories to look at. I find that if you don't bombard people with your opinions you actually get through to someone better by showing them evidence, even a general chat with a coffee can go a long way. I'd love to go and see Roswell for myself plus about a thousand more places in America (yes I'm a fan of the states). At least I could show people genuine and conclusive "evidence" that I'd been there, even if it was only a T-shirt or a blow up E.T. Mind you they would have to be stamped with Made In Roswell and only sold here!
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248	Last edited by dustbunny; 7th July 2008 at 11:33 AM.

7th July 2008, 11:39 AM	#26
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125	Originally Posted by dustbunny I agree tapman. I've believed for years that Roswell was real and some of the members on this forum have thankfully given me alternative theories to look at. I find that if you don't bombard people with your opinions you actually get through to someone better by showing them evidence, even a general chat with a coffee can go a long way. I'd love to go and see Roswell for myself plus about a thousand more places in America (yes I'm a fan of the states). At least I could show people genuine and conclusive "evidence" that I'd been there, even if it was only a T-shirt or a blow up E.T. I live in New Mexico, and have had some of those "interesting conversations". While deer hunting on a ranch in Lincoln County I was approached by the ranch owner. Nice guy just making sure we weren't bothering his herd. We ended up talking to him for quite a while and asked about the aircraft that were flying over us all night. He said he hear they were testing something new at the nearby base, and had been doing it for a few weeks. My friend made a flying saucer Roswell joke, and the old guy got real serious and told us about a piece of metal from the ship his father brought home. He said he could crumple it up with his hand, and throw it down on the table really hard, and it would go back to its original form. Whether you believe him or not, it was a pretty interesting story. It was hard not to believe him actually. Not an endorsement, just an interesting story I thought I'd tell.
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125

7th July 2008, 12:01 PM	#27
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248	Originally Posted by tapman I live in New Mexico, and have had some of those "interesting conversations". While deer hunting on a ranch in Lincoln County I was approached by the ranch owner. Nice guy just making sure we weren't bothering his herd. We ended up talking to him for quite a while and asked about the aircraft that were flying over us all night. He said he hear they were testing something new at the nearby base, and had been doing it for a few weeks. My friend made a flying saucer Roswell joke, and the old guy got real serious and told us about a piece of metal from the ship his father brought home. He said he could crumple it up with his hand, and throw it down on the table really hard, and it would go back to its original form. Whether you believe him or not, it was a pretty interesting story. It was hard not to believe him actually. Not an endorsement, just an interesting story I thought I'd tell. Sometimes different opinions help you to decide one way or another and if this gentleman believed it who are we to question why? I'd love to believe it was real and I'm sure I'd heard in the past that some of the people involved with the original investigation had taken polygraph tests to prove their stories. Of course I know it's not foolproof but it gave it a bit more credibility for me. I must admit though if what I've read is right from other members on here it does throw a very different light on things. A very interesting story that I'll keeping reading on!
dustbunny Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 248

7th July 2008, 02:46 PM	#28
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125	Now back to the thread---- I'm really trying here people, but I feel I should help these poor boys before they look even more ridicuous. Your right dusty, I love that Roswel story. It has all the trappings of a good debate. Fun for everyone!!
tapman Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 125

7th July 2008, 03:43 PM	#29
Patricio Elicer Obsessed with Reality Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 4,538	Originally Posted by Monza It looks like it is up here. Thanks. Bill Nye is not in that segment, however, nor is Edgar Mitchell.
	__________________ The Universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition - Carl Sagan

7th July 2008, 05:47 PM	#30
AliasN What are you lookin' at? Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 527	Originally Posted by Stellafane Hi Tapman. I'd like to offer you a bit of advice, if I may so presume. It's this: Intelligent people, with a little practice, can successfully pretend to be stupid. But stupid people, no matter how hard they try to sound intelligent, will always come off as stupid. Stallafane, my thoughts exactly. Meanwhile...
	__________________ ...ignore whatever AliasN has to say. -Legend

7th July 2008, 10:57 PM	#31
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,916	Originally Posted by dustbunny Maybe the wrong choice of words but we sometimes learn things when we least expect it. Like I said there's no harm in trying and if the only positive result is a good holiday then my journey was worth it! Just like there's no harm in trying a psychic? Enjoy the road trip
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,916	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind. "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use.

7th July 2008, 10:59 PM	#32
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,916	Originally Posted by Monza It looks like it is up here. Why is it that most of my linking to Youtube videos comes up with "We're sorry this vidoe is no longer available."? Can everybody else link to this one?
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,916	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind. "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use.

8th July 2008, 12:27 AM	#33
roseglass Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 146	Originally Posted by Southwind17 Why is it that most of my linking to Youtube videos comes up with "We're sorry this vidoe is no longer available."? Can everybody else link to this one? Glad someone posted a link too. I was just able to get it to work after refreshing the browser [F5] and then it loaded.
roseglass Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 146

8th July 2008, 12:40 AM	#34
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 52,462	That Roswell woman who claims Daddy saw the aliens seems to have confabulated her story even more. The details get clearer and clearer as time passes.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Pubbie Party, ~~Repubs "Republics" and Republic Party~~ in response.)

8th July 2008, 12:47 AM	#35
roseglass Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 146	I like the reply on youtube from Joesixstring, : "The simple truth is, no alien craft crashed at Roswell." Not sure if that's the angle people will get from Larry King's show.
roseglass Thinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 146