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Old 22nd July 2008, 12:05 AM   #1
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Homeopaths: Give One, You Only Need One, Incontrovertible Example...

GIVE ONE, YOU ONLY NEED ONE, INCONTROVERTIBLE EXAMPLE, WITH REFERENCES, OF HOMEOPATHY CURING A NON-SELF-LIMITING CONDITION

Since this question has caused non-self-limiting damage to the credibility of every homeopath to whom it has been posed, I thought it would benefit from being giving a thread to which enthusiastic contenders may be directed in future.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 03:17 AM   #2
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You know what? I'd extend that to include successful management of any condition which is known to be fatal if left untreated.

Homoeopaths often point out (correctly) that medicine cannot cure diabetes, or Addison's, or hypothyroidism etc., etc. However, patients suffering from these conditions (the first two of which are certainly fatal if left untreated) are successfully managed so that they live normal or near-normal lives. Homoeopathy constantly boasts of cure, thus we focus on cure, however successful management of conditions like this would in fact be equally impressive.

If they could do it.

Rolfe.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 03:18 AM   #3
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I think we must also make it crystal clear to any applicants that presenting a case report of a patient who survived an infection or other pathology with a high (but under 100%) fatality rate, does not count.

Rolfe.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 05:08 AM   #4
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What do you mean by "self-limiting"?
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Old 22nd July 2008, 05:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
What do you mean by "self-limiting"?
Quote:
self·-limiting (self′lim′it iŋ)

adjective

that terminates by the natural course of events a self-limiting disease
Quote:
illness: Patients may have a serious life-threatening condition or a trivial self-limiting illness.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/self-limiting
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Old 22nd July 2008, 05:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I think we must also make it crystal clear to any applicants that presenting a case report of a patient who survived an infection or other pathology with a high (but under 100%) fatality rate, does not count.

Rolfe.
Of course, because correlation ≠ causality, but then again, that logical fact somehow escapes many people.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 05:55 AM   #7
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*Drums fingers. Puts on kettle*
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Old 22nd July 2008, 06:23 AM   #8
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I've got chocolate digestives here. What about you guys?
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Old 22nd July 2008, 06:37 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by malbui View Post
I've got chocolate digestives here.
McVitie's?
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Old 22nd July 2008, 08:02 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by malbui View Post
I've got chocolate digestives here. What about you guys?
I've got a Hob Nob.

(Probably shouldn't stand so close to the cooker while naked and frying bacon)
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Old 22nd July 2008, 08:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
GIVE ONE, YOU ONLY NEED ONE, INCONTROVERTIBLE EXAMPLE, WITH REFERENCES, OF HOMEOPATHY CURING A NON-SELF-LIMITING CONDITION

Since this question has caused non-self-limiting damage to the credibility of every homeopath to whom it has been posed, I thought it would benefit from being giving a thread to which enthusiastic contenders may be directed in future.

In other words, the homeopathic cure to the loss of credibility of homeopaths is an infintesimal amount of evidence.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 02:30 PM   #12
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I'd like to hear more about Andre Saine's apparent claims that homeopathy cures rabies. Does anyone know about the basis on which those claims are founded?

DUllman said "Andre Saine’s forthcoming book, The Weight of Evidence, will probably provide us all with this evidence about rabies."
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"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath.
"Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park)
Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 02:33 PM   #13
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To help the homeopaths I'll also highlight the alleged cures of cancer claimed using the "Banerji Protocol"

These claims are superficially impressive. Can anyone comment on the quality of these claims?
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"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath.
"Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park)
Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.

Last edited by Badly Shaved Monkey; 22nd July 2008 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 07:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
I'd like to hear more about Andre Saine's apparent claims that homeopathy cures rabies. Does anyone know about the basis on which those claims are founded?

<< snip >>
Well. It is certainly true that none of the patients ever treated in this way have ever complained it did not work.

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Old 22nd July 2008, 10:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
To help the homeopaths I'll also highlight the alleged cures of cancer claimed using the "Banerji Protocol"

These claims are superficially impressive. Can anyone comment on the quality of these claims?
Out of seven cases, one 'brain cancer' was not confirmed with tissue examination. One biopsy and one fine-needle aspirate gave questionable results as to the presence of cancer. Three biopsies seem to confirm the presence of cancer, but they did not specify whether other treatment was provided. This leaves one diagnosis made on the basis of fine needle aspirate (small cell lung ca) where no other treatment was received. What is the chance that the pathologist made a mistake with a sample type that has less reliability than biopsy or that there was spontaneous regression of a tumour type for which spontaneous regression has previously been reported (albeit rarely)?

Linda
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Old 22nd July 2008, 10:47 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
I'd like to hear more about Andre Saine's apparent claims that homeopathy cures rabies. Does anyone know about the basis on which those claims are founded?
In this article, he refers to clinical rabies. The wording suggests that these were not confirmed by laboratory testing, and so simply may not have been rabies.

Linda
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Old 23rd July 2008, 02:27 AM   #17
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I'm trying to arrange a meeting with one of the most prominent homeopaths of my town. I've heard that she's scientifically informed. She's studied in the university of Helsinki and been involved in some very high profile science tv series here in Finland. This is what I've heard. I'm also trying to get her to join this forum for constructive discussions. Let's see what happens.
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Old 27th July 2008, 04:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by fls View Post
In this article, he refers to clinical rabies. The wording suggests that these were not confirmed by laboratory testing, and so simply may not have been rabies.

Linda
The full broadcast is available.

Remember to keep the aspirin ready for the non-Novella parts. My brain still hurts from the memory of listening to it.

I'm sure if Saine had evidence for all these claims that somebody else would have at least part of that evidence. As no-one has even tried to answer BSM's challenge (to my limited knowledge), I rest assured the evidence doesn't exist.
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