ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Kenny Johannemann

Reply
Old 4th September 2008, 07:06 PM   #1
RedIbis
Philosopher
 
RedIbis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
9/11 claims one more victim - Kenny Johannemann

Kenny was a brave and loved man, who with William Rodriguez saved Felipe David's life. I'm posting this because I think Kenny's story deserves to be heard. In his final interviews he wished to set the record straight because he thought that the media had twisted his story.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...im.html?page=0
__________________
(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)
RedIbis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 07:32 PM   #2
jmercer
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,235
Mod WarningMoved to Current Events; this is not a conspiracy theory.
Posted By:jmercer
jmercer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 07:34 PM   #3
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Quote:
Johannemann often said he might have been killed on 9/11 had he not stopped to get a cup of coffee just before the plane hit.
Otherwise, he might have been on an elevator when a jet crashed and flaming fuel poured down the shaft.
Instead, he was waiting for an elevator when he heard a huge bang and the doors burst open. A man tumbled out on fire and Johannemann helped him to an ambulance.
"He was burned up bad but he was still alive," Johannemann told People Magazine.
Huh.

And somehow RedIbis will try to spin this into Johannemann being a truther... no grave is too sacred enough to spit on apparently.
__________________
Vive la liberté!

Last edited by WildCat; 4th September 2008 at 07:35 PM.
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 07:34 PM   #4
Quad4_72
AI-EE-YAH!
 
Quad4_72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,354
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Kenny was a brave and loved man, who with William Rodriguez saved Felipe David's life. I'm posting this because I think Kenny's story deserves to be heard. In his final interviews he wished to set the record straight because he thought that the media had twisted his story.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...im.html?page=0
A sad story indeed. Which interviews are you referring to about setting the record straight?
__________________
Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
Quad4_72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 07:39 PM   #5
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Ironic that someone who denies the heroism of the passengers of flight 93 would start a thread like this.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 07:42 PM   #6
RedIbis
Philosopher
 
RedIbis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
A sad story indeed. Which interviews are you referring to about setting the record straight?
The interviews that I personally witnessed about 2 1/2 weeks ago.

I don't think this thread should have been moved. I encourage, specifically the so called debunkers in the Conspiracy Theory forum, to pay close attention to what Kenny had to say.
__________________
(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)
RedIbis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 08:11 PM   #7
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,605
A terrible tragedy and I'm sure not the only suicide to stem from the stress of that day.

I fail to see how this validates any of the conspiracy theories.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 08:39 PM   #8
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
At this point there's no difference between Al Qaeda and truthers.

AQ wanted to cause pain to advance their ideology, truthers are now using this pain and are perpetuating it to advance their ideology.

Shame on you RedIbis.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 09:01 PM   #9
Gurdur
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,873
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
At this point there's no difference between Al Qaeda and truthers.

Bit of a silly thing to say, more than a bit of a silly thing. Truthers haven't actually killed anyone. There is such a thing as using hyperbole and inappropriate analogies too much till your stance looks utterly ridiculous.

The rest of what you said is fine. Even true. But leading with this one sentence is ...... crappy.
Gurdur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th September 2008, 09:13 PM   #10
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by Gurdur View Post
Bit of a silly thing to say, more than a bit of a silly thing. Truthers haven't actually killed anyone. There is such a thing as using hyperbole and inappropriate analogies too much till your stance looks utterly ridiculous.

The rest of what you said is fine. Even true. But leading with this one sentence is ...... crappy.
I knew this was coming, that's why I said "at this point".

Of course the actions of AQ are far worst than what any truthers as ever done, but at this point, meaning seven years after the crimes have been committed, after the pain has subsided, the people who are using that pain and reviving it in order to satisfy and push their ideology are as guilty today.

I hope you see the distinction.

ETA: perhaps the same way Holocaust deniers are perpetuating the crimes of the Holocaust. They may not have killed anyone, but the fact that they are denying and insulting the reality of these events makes them somewhat complicit of them, today.

Last edited by Pardalis; 4th September 2008 at 09:21 PM.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 12:34 AM   #11
Quad4_72
AI-EE-YAH!
 
Quad4_72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,354
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
The interviews that I personally witnessed about 2 1/2 weeks ago.

I don't think this thread should have been moved. I encourage, specifically the so called debunkers in the Conspiracy Theory forum, to pay close attention to what Kenny had to say.
You mind elaborating on that? Or linking to it?
__________________
Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
Quad4_72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 02:44 AM   #12
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
You mind elaborating on that? Or linking to it?
I'd take his word for it. I trust him as much as I trust any Truther or Creationists.
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 09:49 AM   #13
RedIbis
Philosopher
 
RedIbis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
In hindsight I've concluded that the mods know best. If this thread stays here, it shouldn't be an opportunity for bitter exchanges and attacks. At least Travis had the decency to acknowledge what a tragedy this is.

When his final interviews become public, I'll start a thread in CT. But I'll request there as well, that the man's memory be respected, despite what you think of his conclusions.
__________________
(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)
RedIbis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 10:09 AM   #14
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
When his final interviews become public, I'll start a thread in CT.
How did you get to see an interview that isn't public yet?

(and please try to respond to this simple question within a day)

Last edited by Pardalis; 5th September 2008 at 10:12 AM.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 10:22 AM   #15
RedIbis
Philosopher
 
RedIbis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
How did you get to see an interview that isn't public yet?

(and please try to respond to this simple question within a day)
How do people usually witness interviews?
__________________
(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)
RedIbis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 11:07 AM   #16
chillzero
Penultimate Amazing
 
chillzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,539
Mod WarningBickering removed. Stop it please, or there will be more consequences.
Posted By:chillzero
chillzero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 01:20 PM   #17
GreyICE
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,149
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
At this point there's no difference between Al Qaeda and truthers.
The Al Qaeda has proven frighteningly competent, easily evading security procedures, anticipating government moves, creating an organization that is remarkably resistant to attempts to dismantle or disable it.

Last edited by GreyICE; 5th September 2008 at 01:24 PM.
GreyICE is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 01:35 PM   #18
Drudgewire
Critical Doofus
 
Drudgewire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9,421
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Kenny was a brave and loved man

Damnit Red, now I have Skid Row's "18 & Life" stuck in my head.
__________________
"You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc."
-lapman describing every twoofer on the internet
Drudgewire is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 01:52 PM   #19
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by GreyICE View Post
The Al Qaeda has proven frighteningly competent, easily evading security procedures, anticipating government moves, creating an organization that is remarkably resistant to attempts to dismantle or disable it.
And?...
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 02:01 PM   #20
Gurdur
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,873
Originally Posted by GreyICE View Post
The Al Qaeda has proven frighteningly competent, easily evading security procedures, anticipating government moves, creating an organization that is remarkably resistant to attempts to dismantle or disable it.

That one was funny. I at least got it.
Gurdur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 02:04 PM   #21
Gurdur
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,873
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
... I hope you see the distinction.

Oh, I see the distinction just fine. It's just I don't think it's valid, and my original statement stands.

Quote:
ETA: perhaps the same way Holocaust deniers are perpetuating the crimes of the Holocaust. They may not have killed anyone, but the fact that they are denying and insulting the reality of these events makes them somewhat complicit of them, today.

"Complicit in" does not equal "same as".

And that's the great big problem, with using hyperbole; we get bogged down in discussing the hyperbole, instead of the actual issues.
Gurdur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 03:08 PM   #22
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
How do people usually witness interviews?
We've cooled our tempers down now, so let's take it one step at a time:

You've implied earlier to have seen the man's final interview, or at least that you know of its content.

You claimed this interview has not yet been made public.

If it's not public yet this means it's privately owned, that it hasn't been published.

This means if you've seen it or know its content, you had special privileged access to it.

How was that possible? What was your access to it? What is this interview?

Also, you seem to imply that the contents of the "final" interview has something to do with 9/11 CTs.

What is it?

Thanks.

I expect a reply... whenever you like.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 04:03 PM   #23
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Without attempting to derail this thread - Does anyone know if this poor chap had access to councilling etc through his work, or did he slip through the cracks, or people thought "Oh he is a hero, he will be fine"
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 04:51 PM   #24
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Also, you seem to imply that the contents of the "final" interview has something to do with 9/11 CTs.

What is it?
If it was a interview by a truther I expect lots of editing and cherry-picked quotes. Knowing what they do to people who are still alive to denounce such tactics, I can just imagine just how far they'll go to misrepresent the dead.

Remember, RedIbis is the guy who immediately completely mischaracterized the quote in the OP of this thread to support his fantasies, and in this thread he used cherry-picked quotes, attributed other quotes to different people and organizations that made them, lied, and when he was called out arrogantly demanded apologies from posters who pointed out his lies and intellectual dishonesty.

If RedIbis said the sun rose in the east I'd have to double-check.
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th September 2008, 05:34 PM   #25
GreyICE
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,149
Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
And?...
I was highlighting some differences you might have missed.
GreyICE is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 03:01 AM   #26
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,072
Basement, B1 Level
Kenneth Johannemann, ABM Janitorial Services (Note: this quote gives the impression that Johannemann was on the 30th floor. He wasn’t, as he says in the video that follows the quotes.)

My shift is from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. I’m always on time, but today I got lucky because I went to the 30th floor to get a cup of coffee. If I hadn’t gotten that cup of coffee, I would have been blown up on the elevator. I was waiting by the elevator to go to the restrooms, and then there was a big bang, and the whole building shook. The elevator door flew open, and a guy stumbled out, and he was badly burned. He was a delivery guy. The skin from his wrist was hanging down past his fingertips. http://www.abm.com/ilwwcm/resources/file/eb000c0fdc64a5c/Alliance-911.pdf


Kenny Johannemann was in the number one tower of the World Trade centre, waiting for the elevator in the basement.

It was shift-change time, the time of day when the building is most crowded.

"The lift door exploded open. there was a man inside half burnt. His skin was hanging off.

"I dragged him out of the lift and somebody helped me get him out for the building. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/23/1030052968600.html


Johannemann video:
"What happened was, I was down in the basement, all of sudden we heard a loud bang. And the elevator doors blew open, some guy was burnt up, so I dragged him out, his skin was all hanging off, so I dragged him out and pulled him outta the parking lot [inaudible]" See video: http://tinyurl.com/8qay5


Anthony Saltalamacchia:
"So we went the opposite way towards the truck dock, carrying this man with us. We then got to the truck dock, ran up the truck dock, and got outside, finally. I'm not sure what time that was, but we then saw the ambulance, and William and Kenny directed the man, carried him over to the ambulance, and made sure that he got to safety." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzpaZE5XSfg

Quotes are from the north tower basement witness accounts in my paper William Rodriguez, Escape Artist.
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

Last edited by Gravy; 6th September 2008 at 03:02 AM.
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 08:26 AM   #27
RedIbis
Philosopher
 
RedIbis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Basement, B1 Level
Kenneth Johannemann, ABM Janitorial Services (Note: this quote gives the impression that Johannemann was on the 30th floor. He wasn’t, as he says in the video that follows the quotes.)

My shift is from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. I’m always on time, but today I got lucky because I went to the 30th floor to get a cup of coffee. If I hadn’t gotten that cup of coffee, I would have been blown up on the elevator. I was waiting by the elevator to go to the restrooms, and then there was a big bang, and the whole building shook. The elevator door flew open, and a guy stumbled out, and he was badly burned. He was a delivery guy. The skin from his wrist was hanging down past his fingertips. http://www.abm.com/ilwwcm/resources/file/eb000c0fdc64a5c/Alliance-911.pdf


Kenny Johannemann was in the number one tower of the World Trade centre, waiting for the elevator in the basement.

It was shift-change time, the time of day when the building is most crowded.

"The lift door exploded open. there was a man inside half burnt. His skin was hanging off.

"I dragged him out of the lift and somebody helped me get him out for the building. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/23/1030052968600.html


Johannemann video:
"What happened was, I was down in the basement, all of sudden we heard a loud bang. And the elevator doors blew open, some guy was burnt up, so I dragged him out, his skin was all hanging off, so I dragged him out and pulled him outta the parking lot [inaudible]" See video: http://tinyurl.com/8qay5


Anthony Saltalamacchia:
"So we went the opposite way towards the truck dock, carrying this man with us. We then got to the truck dock, ran up the truck dock, and got outside, finally. I'm not sure what time that was, but we then saw the ambulance, and William and Kenny directed the man, carried him over to the ambulance, and made sure that he got to safety." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzpaZE5XSfg

Quotes are from the north tower basement witness accounts in my paper William Rodriguez, Escape Artist.
As I said earlier in this thread, I think the mods had the right idea moving this to Current Events because this really should not be a place for debate, vicious attacks, etc, and perhaps just a thread to remember a brave and beloved man.

Still, I feel a responsibility to highlight examples of what concerned Kenny so deeply before he passed.

Gravy, as you are considered such an expert here, did it occur to you that some of these quotes might be incorrect? For instance, in the Sydney Morning Herald article you reference, Kenny is quoted as saying, "The lift door exploded open. there[sic] was a man inside half burnt. His skin was hanging off.

"I dragged him out of the lift".

What New Yorker, such as one born in Brooklyn and living in SI, as Kenny was, uses the word "lift" for elevator? Isn't it possible that the Australian journalist misquotes him? The only reason you posted in this thread is because you believe these quotes strengthen your position that the fireballs reported were jet fuel in the elevator shafts.

You attacked Wille Rodriguez in your paper for not using the phone to call Carmen and Arturo Griffith. Did you ever call Kenny? Did you ever ask him if he was quoted correctly?

Did you ever try and find out who this guy was that Kenny dragged to safety? If you had, then you would know whether or not this guy was ever in the elevator.

I would very much rather continue this discussion in the 9/11 forum. You've already broken your pledge to stay retired from it.
__________________
(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)
RedIbis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 10:02 AM   #28
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
As I said earlier in this thread, I think the mods had the right idea moving this to Current Events because this really should not be a place for debate
Could you at least respond to my questions in post #22, you did make those claims.

A reminder:

Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
In his final interviews he wished to set the record straight because he thought that the media had twisted his story.
Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
Which interviews are you referring to about setting the record straight?
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
The interviews that I personally witnessed about 2 1/2 weeks ago.
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
When his final interviews become public, I'll start a thread in CT.

Last edited by Pardalis; 6th September 2008 at 10:29 AM.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 10:28 AM   #29
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
What New Yorker, such as one born in Brooklyn and living in SI, as Kenny was, uses the word "lift" for elevator?
Ah, now we see where this will go. You intend to rework an interview substituting your own words for his, now that he is conveniently dead and unable to correct you.

Despicable RedIbis, but pretty much what we on this forum who know you have come to expect from you.
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 11:20 AM   #30
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Still, I feel a responsibility to highlight examples of what concerned Kenny so deeply before he passed.

Again, you haven't done that, you haven't highlighted anything. I read the link you posted in the OP four times and I can't see anything that suggests he was concerned about being misquoted by anyone.

Could you provide us with something to back up your assertion that he was concerned about that?

So far your response to Gravy suggests that you are the one who is concerned about him being misquoted, but can you give us evidence that he was?

"what concerned Kenny so deeply before he passed"

Please tell us what it was, and how you know it.

Thanks.

Last edited by Pardalis; 6th September 2008 at 11:27 AM.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 01:40 PM   #31
Mr.Herbert
Graduate Poster
 
Mr.Herbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,448
9/11 claims one more victim - Kenny Johannemann

Quote:
After Kenny Johannemann shot himself, relatives found a letter on White House stationery in the one-room apartment he shared only with his cat.
Sad story here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...re_victim.html
Mr.Herbert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 01:42 PM   #32
Mr.Herbert
Graduate Poster
 
Mr.Herbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,448
Here is the suicide note:

"The reason I killed myself was 'cause I was getting evicted and I can't handle being homeless. I also am very depressed since I was in 9/11. I've been drinking way too much and it's ruined my life. I've lost friends and family over drinking and I'm very lonely. There is nothing left for me to be happy about other than my cat. Sounds weird, but it's true. I just wanted to say sorry 2 any people I ever hurt in my life. I really was a good person when I wasn't drinking. I hope people remember that!
Goodbye!!!
Kenny Johannemann"


On a separate sheet was a plea: "Please find my cat a home. His name is Papa-Boy and he's a very special cat."
Mr.Herbert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 01:48 PM   #33
Mr.Herbert
Graduate Poster
 
Mr.Herbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,448
oops... i see that there was a thread about this. Sorry Chill!
Mr.Herbert is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 01:54 PM   #34
SDC
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,244
Originally Posted by Mr.Herbert View Post
oops... i see that there was a thread about this. Sorry Chill!
OH for heaven's sake... Where? Donde? Gde?
SDC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 02:05 PM   #35
Homeland Insurgency
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,705
That is truly sad. I wonder how many people are walking around like that. Now we have all these guys coming back from multiple tours of Iraq on top of it. Where is the help?
Homeland Insurgency is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 02:32 PM   #36
SDC
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,244
I repeat: Mr Herbert, WHERE IS THE THREAD??
SDC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 02:38 PM   #37
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
The other thread has been moved to current events, so should this one.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 02:38 PM   #38
RedIbis
Philosopher
 
RedIbis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
Originally Posted by SDC View Post
I repeat: Mr Herbert, WHERE IS THE THREAD??
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=122748

It was moved, as I suspect this one will be, because it does not deal with a conspiracy theory.
__________________
(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)
RedIbis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 03:56 PM   #39
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
In his final interviews he wished to set the record straight because he thought that the media had twisted his story.
Red, your attitude is confusing.

How is it respectful of a dead person's memory to claim to know of his last words in an interview and to have seen this person's last interview, and not sharing its content with others?

How is it respectful of the dead to not provide any proof that you actually did see this interview or that it even exists?

How is it respectful of the dead to pretend to know that the contents of this interview show this dead man's "deep concerns" about his words being twisted, and at the same time you don't even provide this man's own words for us to verify and witness?

How can we know you're not twisting his words?

Last edited by Pardalis; 6th September 2008 at 03:57 PM.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2008, 04:24 PM   #40
RandFan
Mormon Atheist
 
RandFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 60,134
I'm sorry that Kenny has suffered so. My heart goes out to his loved ones. I find it disgusting that anyone would use his death for political purposes or to further an agenda. Nothing about him has anything to do with that.
__________________
Ego, ain't it a bitch?
RandFan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:12 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.