Is the collapse of Lehman good or bad for the Illuminati?

Blue_Sargasso

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Of course, the Illuminati have a well-diversified portfolio, so will be less troubled than many by the recent financial troubles. Naturally, they are behind many financial upheavals because it allows them to put rivals out of business, and to buy up assets at firesale prices.

The Illuminati are masters of psychology and one of their main instruments of control is human greed. What won't people do for money? The Illuminati were the authors of the crazy derivatives instruments that have now wreaked so much havoc. They made a fortune out of these instruments while the boom phase was in progress, and they may make even more as the bust phase unfolds. It's invariably their rivals who go out of business, while they simply accumulate more wealth and power.

You disagree? Well, explain to me how financial 'genuises' earning tens of millions of dollars a year managed to screw up on such a spectcular scale. And why did governments allow them to? Why did no one see this coming? Either we understand how economies work - in which case we should be able to see well in advance when they are going wrong, or we don't have a clue - in which case why are we paying people tens of millions of dollars when we have no idea what effects on the economy their decisions are going to have? How stupid does that make us?

Or....there's a conspiracy and some people - the usual suspects - are behind all of this and they've made their usual killing. If I have a billion dollars in assets, do I care a hoot about Lehman brothers?
 
If you honestly believe in the Illuminati, doesn't that mean this collapse was scripted about 20 years ago? :confused:
 
Blue_Sargasso said:
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The Illuminati were the authors of the crazy derivatives instruments that have now wreaked so much havoc.

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Nope - some clever backroom math phd's were the authors.

Blue_Sargasso said:
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They made a fortune out of these instruments while the boom phase was in progress, and they may make even more as the bust phase unfolds. It's invariably their rivals who go out of business, while they simply accumulate more wealth and power.

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Quick question for you - how is the market today compared to 5 years ago?

Blue_Sargasso said:
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You disagree? Well, explain to me how financial 'genuises' earning tens of millions of dollars a year managed to screw up on such a spectcular scale.

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Perhaps because there are not many geniuses, financial or otherwise.

Blue_Sargasso said:
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And why did governments allow them to?

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Allow them to do what? Not break the law?

Blue_Sargasso said:
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Why did no one see this coming?

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Many people did.

Blue_Sargasso said:
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Either we understand how economies work - in which case we should be able to see well in advance when they are going wrong, or we don't have a clue - in which case why are we paying people tens of millions of dollars when we have no idea what effects on the economy their decisions are going to have? How stupid does that make us?

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I don't pay them any money so for me not very - if you have been paying them well then you'll have to decide how stupid you are for yourself.

Blue_Sargasso said:
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Or....there's a conspiracy and some people - the usual suspects - are behind all of this and they've made their usual killing. If I have a billion dollars in assets, do I care a hoot about Lehman brothers?
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Depends how your billion was invested - if it was invested in Lehman then I think you would be caring a great deal.
 
Blue_Sargasso said:
...You disagree? Well, explain to me how financial 'genuises' earning tens of millions of dollars a year managed to screw up on such a spectcular scale. And why did governments allow them to? Why did no one see this coming? Either we understand how economies work - in which case we should be able to see well in advance when they are going wrong, or we don't have a clue - in which case why are we paying people tens of millions of dollars when we have no idea what effects on the economy their decisions are going to have? How stupid does that make us?
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These transactions are speculative, or fictitious capital. Less than 1% of transactions across the globe actually account for any good or service. The rest are movements of the 'animal spirits' of investors - loosely, if they expect the value to go up, they buy.

The reason any country gives them such freedom is because when it goes well, they make an immense amount of money. A country refusing to participate for reasons of principle would likely undergo a revolution, because its constituents would feel deprived.

Unfortunately, fictitious capital, appearing from nowhere, can just as easily disappear to nowhere. This is the fault of capitalism, not an overarching conspiracy.

Read an economics textbook. They're quite interesting.
 
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Blue_Sargasso said:
Of course, the Illuminati have a well-diversified portfolio, so will be less troubled than many by the recent financial troubles. Naturally, they are behind many financial upheavals because it allows them to put rivals out of business, and to buy up assets at firesale prices.

The Illuminati are masters of psychology and one of their main instruments of control is human greed. What won't people do for money? The Illuminati were the authors of the crazy derivatives instruments that have now wreaked so much havoc. They made a fortune out of these instruments while the boom phase was in progress, and they may make even more as the bust phase unfolds. It's invariably their rivals who go out of business, while they simply accumulate more wealth and power.

You disagree? Well, explain to me how financial 'genuises' earning tens of millions of dollars a year managed to screw up on such a spectcular scale. And why did governments allow them to? Why did no one see this coming? Either we understand how economies work - in which case we should be able to see well in advance when they are going wrong, or we don't have a clue - in which case why are we paying people tens of millions of dollars when we have no idea what effects on the economy their decisions are going to have? How stupid does that make us?

Or....there's a conspiracy and some people - the usual suspects - are behind all of this and they've made their usual killing. If I have a billion dollars in assets, do I care a hoot about Lehman brothers?
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This is easy! Since the Illuminati control everything, this would just be part of their plan.

Actually, since they don't exist, it doesn't effect them at all. It also doesn't effect the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, or any other fictional people.
 
Confuseling said:
These transactions are speculative, or fictitious capital. Less than 1% of transactions across the globe actually account for any good or service. The rest are movements of the 'animal spirits' of investors - loosely, if they expect the value to go up, they buy.

The reason any country gives them such freedom is because when it goes well, they make an immense amount of money. A country refusing to participate for reasons of principle would likely undergo a revolution, because its constituents would feel deprived.

Unfortunately, fictitious capital, appearing from nowhere, can just as easily disappear to nowhere. This is the fault of capitalism, not an overarching conspiracy.

Read an economics textbook. They're quite interesting.
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Read one that is not written by beleivers in a disproven,discreditied religion called Marxism. They are quite accurate.
 
Hmmmmm....The Lehmann Brothers...that means....THE JEWS DID IT!

You know we are going to get that.
In fact, I am surprised by MaGZ has not already been here with his customary rant.
 
dudalb said:
Read one that is not written by beleivers in a disproven,discreditied religion called Marxism. They are quite accurate.
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Hey, that was hardly a Marxist point. Speculative and fictitious capital are largely interchangeable terms, as I understand it - unless you can point to a difference.

And the fact that North America purged all leftists from its academic institutions does nothing to disprove leftism (and in fact does quite a lot to discredit North Amercian study of the subjects concerned).

Large parts of academia in Europe and elsewhere are still Marxist. Tell them it's disproved.
 
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Confuseling said:
Hey, that was hardly a Marxist point. Speculative and fictitious capital are largely interchangeable terms, as I understand it - unless you can point to a difference.

And the fact that North America purged all leftists from its academic institutions does nothing to disprove leftism (and in fact does quite a lot to discredit North Amercian study of the subjects concerned).

Large parts of academia in Europe and elsewhere are still Marxist. Tell them it's disproved.
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You obiviously haven't been at any academic institutions lately if you think they have been purged of leftists.
 
Everything that happens is good for the Illuminati.

That's by definition. The only real defining quality of the Illuminati is that they are those for whom everything that ever happens is beneficial and according-to-plan.

(ETA: You disgree? Then tell me something that happened that went really wrong for the Illuminati. What historical event can you look at and say, "Wow, the Illuminati really screwed the pooch that time"?)

But there is no reason to believe that anyone fitting that definition actually exists.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
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Billdave2 said:
You obiviously haven't been at any academic institutions lately if you think they have been purged of leftists.
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:D Fair enough. But they are under-represented on your side of the pond.

The idea that Marxism has been disproved is a uniquely North American, and I have to say misinformed one. Marxist economics is bunk, as I understand it (not necessarily inconsistent, but pointless - one can just as easily create a 'corn' theory of value, in which all value derives from the use of corn, as a 'labour' theory of value), but Marxism is much richer than its economic theory, and quite capable of surviving without it.

[oh, and good one Myriad :D]
 
Confuseling said:
Hey, that was hardly a Marxist point. Speculative and fictitious capital are largely interchangeable terms, as I understand it - unless you can point to a difference.
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I have never heard of the term fictitious capital before (at least outside an actual case of fraud). However, speculative means that

Wikipedia has a good definition of speculation:

The assumption of the risk of loss, in return for the uncertain possibility of a reward.
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Can you explain what you mean by fictitious? Or what you consider not to be fictitious?
 
Well, speculative capital is, as far as I know, used to point towards a volatile capital fund used for risky ventures. Fictitious capital means much the same thing - it's just got different connotations. It refers very specifically to the fact that it is not associated with the exchange of any good or service. [eta obviously this depends on a definition of service excluding repackaging and reselling risk]

It has a precise meaning within the framework of Marxist economics, but I don't think most uses of it now would refer to that in a general context.

If anyone is unhappy with the term, the meaning of the post is in no way changed by just using 'speculative capital'.

ETA: http://michaelperelman.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/thoughts-on-fictitious-capital/ this link describes the general concept quite well, I'd say.
 
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The Illuminati: It's whatever you want it to be!
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It can be an ancient race of pink butterfly elephants with the ability to fly and making cookies out of whale blubber? Amazing. :D
 
Blue_Sargasso said:
Of course, the Illuminati have a well-diversified portfolio, so will be less troubled than many by the recent financial troubles. Naturally, they are behind many financial upheavals because it allows them to put rivals out of business, and to buy up assets at firesale prices.

The Illuminati are masters of psychology and one of their main instruments of control is human greed. What won't people do for money? The Illuminati were the authors of the crazy derivatives instruments that have now wreaked so much havoc. They made a fortune out of these instruments while the boom phase was in progress, and they may make even more as the bust phase unfolds. It's invariably their rivals who go out of business, while they simply accumulate more wealth and power.

You disagree? Well, explain to me how financial 'genuises' earning tens of millions of dollars a year managed to screw up on such a spectcular scale. And why did governments allow them to? Why did no one see this coming? Either we understand how economies work - in which case we should be able to see well in advance when they are going wrong, or we don't have a clue - in which case why are we paying people tens of millions of dollars when we have no idea what effects on the economy their decisions are going to have? How stupid does that make us?

Or....there's a conspiracy and some people - the usual suspects - are behind all of this and they've made their usual killing. If I have a billion dollars in assets, do I care a hoot about Lehman brothers?
Click to expand...

Who are the illuminati?
 
There has GOT to be a rule against making threads and then not responding to anything posted...
 
We are well diversified and we are buying up at firesale prices. There have been NO recent financial troubles. There never are. But we don't control. We merely take advantage.

We have no rivals.
 
Does anybody know if Blue_Sargasso actually ever discusses these topics he starts, or does he just do hit and runs? Well, that's probably one (very bad) way of converting people to believe in your stupid conspiracy theories.
 
Does anybody know if Blue_Sargasso actually ever discusses these topics he starts, or does he just do hit and runs? Well, that's probably one (very bad) way of converting people to believe in your stupid conspiracy theories.
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Why do the moderators not suspend him for making so many threads while not even replying back? Is their a rule to that?
 
TinfoilCat said:
Why do the moderators not suspend him for making so many threads while not even replying back? Is their a rule to that?
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He has made 23 posts and started 22 threads (one thread he started was merged.)
Darat warned him on 1st September citing rule 6 (spamming). He referred to BS's habit of starting similar threads on the same subject.

Since then he started a thread;
The Yeti, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Blue_Sargasso and other absurd myths New Window (which was closed in line with Darats warning)
another
Is Greed good? before returning to start his 21st thread (and post) yet again on the illuminati in this thread

He then graced 1337m4n's illuminati thread thereby breaking his 100% record before today starting just for a change a NWO thread

Clearing up numerous misunderstandings regarding NWO

It looks like he has slipped from the path of righteousness but perhaps it was the illuminati hacking into his account.
 
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So is it going to be called Lloyds-TSB-Halifax-Bank of Scotland? Or LHBOSTSB?
 
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