ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags autism , Jenny McCarthy , Paul Offit , vaccines

Reply
Old 30th October 2008, 06:04 AM   #1
krelnik
Graduate Poster
 
krelnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,550
I love Dr. Nancy Snyderman of NBC

Dr. Nancy Snyderman is NBC's chief medical editor. This morning she did a profile of Dr. Paul Offit, author of the new book Autism's False Prophets.

The profile was pretty good, not great, it missed a few points. But check out what happened during the "outro" after the report. Dr. Snyderman had mentioned that she personally had been "physically ambushed" by anti-vaccine people, and then she totally got into Matt Lauer's face about referring to the vacccines/autism thing as "controversial."

It was a sight to behold:

Quote:
Dr. Nancy Snyderman: Its time for everyone to redirect the questions toward finding the cause of autism. It is NOT, however, vaccinations.

Matt Lauer: Controversial subject, Nancy.

Snyderman: NOT controversial subject!

Lauer: Well but controversial for parents who still believe.

Snyderman: It is not controversial, Matt! It's time for kids to get their vaccines.

Lauer: If it weren't controversial you wouldn't be ambushed.

Snyderman: No! It's not controversial. I really mean that. The science is the science. We are going to start to see outbreaks of polio and measles in this country if we don't start talking about the real problem. It's NOT controversial.

Lauer: We will talk about it more here, Nancy, thanks.

Snyderman: You bet, Matt.

Lauer: We're back right after this.
Kudos, Dr. Snyderman, kudos.
__________________
What's the harm in a little misinformation?
I blog about online skepticism at skeptools.com
I post a daily skeptic history fact on Twitter and Facebook

Last edited by krelnik; 30th October 2008 at 06:08 AM. Reason: spelling, ambush reference
krelnik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2008, 06:22 AM   #2
Ivor the Engineer
Philosopher
 
Ivor the Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9,425
...and she's pretty too.

Problem is she has a medical qualification. No one is going to believe her that vaccines are safe.
__________________
My Blog.
Ivor the Engineer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2008, 06:35 AM   #3
krelnik
Graduate Poster
 
krelnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,550
You can see the video including the intro and outro here. The good part where she smacks down Lauer at the end starts around 5:00:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/261848...53507#27453507

(Flash & Javascript required, of course, as for most web videos).
__________________
What's the harm in a little misinformation?
I blog about online skepticism at skeptools.com
I post a daily skeptic history fact on Twitter and Facebook
krelnik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2008, 06:41 AM   #4
CriticalThanking
Designated Hitter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: On in memory
Posts: 2,899
The video of the interview has been posted here. The quoted exchange starts after about 5 min.

I sent a note to Phil and Jeff. I think she would be a great speaker at TAM.

CT
__________________
T-Mobile customer service sucks.
Happiness should not be a zero sum game.
Did I mention T-Mobile customer service sucks?
CriticalThanking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2008, 06:43 AM   #5
CriticalThanking
Designated Hitter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: On in memory
Posts: 2,899
Fie on thee, double post!
__________________
T-Mobile customer service sucks.
Happiness should not be a zero sum game.
Did I mention T-Mobile customer service sucks?
CriticalThanking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2008, 10:24 PM   #6
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
 
Eos of the Eons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,872
The video was worth watching. She didn't back down, not for a second. The last few seconds are something to see, not just read about. I have someone else to add to my hero list now.
__________________
Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it.
the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey
my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke
The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!
Eos of the Eons is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st October 2008, 11:32 PM   #7
UnrepentantSinner
A post by Alan Smithee
 
UnrepentantSinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 27,070
Offit was the doctor interviewed that mentioned in this post.

Nancy Snyderman is great. She cuts through the bull that so many sCamers and med woos toss out there.

Drew Pinsky is also great about going after alt-med on Loveline. He goes into this rant whenever anyone mentions "toxins".
__________________
I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.
UnrepentantSinner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st November 2008, 11:36 AM   #8
portlandatheist
Master Poster
 
portlandatheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,531
Great video, I really like how she doesn't back down at all.
portlandatheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2009, 07:49 AM   #9
krelnik
Graduate Poster
 
krelnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,550
February 12, 2008 Appearance

She was on the show again today, promoting her book Medical Myths That Can Kill You.

The topic of autism came up again, she talked about the latest Brian Deer report on Andrew Wakefield's data (indicating that some of it was faked). She called Wakefield a "fraud".

You can see her talk about it from 1:18 to 2:40 in this video from Today Show. Also of interest to skeptics, she talks about overuse of vitamins from 3:04 to 3:40.

Quote:
Matt Lauer: In 1998 (I'm gonna read this and I'm going to get it right), the medical journal The Lancet published a report from a guy named Dr. Andrew Wakefield. He claimed that the cause of autism in children was due to the MMR vaccine.

So, do the measles vaccines cause autism?

Dr. Nancy Snyderman: No.

Now let me roll the clock back a little bit. Before he published this report, there were 56 cases of measles in Great Britain. Last year, over 1300 with several deaths.

And now the British medical authorities are going after him, saying that he in fact falsified his data. His belief was: you get the MMR vaccine, it stays in your gut, it goes to your body, it's a toxin, it causes autism. Now the medical authorities have shown that in the cases he had (except for one) those neurological symptoms were there before these kids got vaccines.

We're starting to see outcrops of Haemophilus infections (with deaths in Minnesota last year); measles outbreaks in this country; and what concerns people is that polio (which was considered wiped out in this country) we could start to see that.

So I want to tell parents, because you know I am a pro-vaccine doctor: get your kids vaccinated.

Lauer: Whatever became of Dr. Wakefield?

Snyderman: He's still in Britain, but I believe absolutely discredited. It's a real example that bad science can occasionally get in a reputable journal like The Lancet. But this guy is a fraud.
__________________
What's the harm in a little misinformation?
I blog about online skepticism at skeptools.com
I post a daily skeptic history fact on Twitter and Facebook

Last edited by krelnik; 12th February 2009 at 09:14 AM. Reason: do/does
krelnik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2009, 08:52 AM   #10
JJM
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,853
At this time, Wakefield is working in Austin Texas.
JJM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2009, 07:24 PM   #11
Walter Wayne
Wayne's Words
 
Walter Wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,502
You can see her pimping her book at fora tv.
http://fora.tv/2008/06/03/Nancy_Snyd...You#chapter_02

She looks better in the video than in her bio ...
http://fora.tv/speaker/4772/Nancy_Snyderman
Walter Wayne is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2009, 03:03 PM   #12
Miss_Kitt
Illuminator
 
Miss_Kitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,882
Do you suppose we could get Obama to come out and pubically endorse vaccines? He seems to have a big following in exactly the sort of circles that reject the evidence on this issue.

Or...I seem to recall a decade or so back, there was a series of PSAs (Public Service Announcements) with George HW Bush and Bill Clinton, asking Americans to donate to relief efforts. Could we launch a similar, cross-party / political viewpoint campaign to urge people to vaccinate their children?

Since evidence is clearly not the driving issue in these folks' minds, maybe an appeal to authority would work??

Just thinking, Miss Kitt
Miss_Kitt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2009, 09:01 AM   #13
krelnik
Graduate Poster
 
krelnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,550
I suppose it is appropriate to add this here on this old thread, because you can see above the apparent spark that led to this. You can also see that Matt Lauer (or his producers) don't really pay close attention to the meat of what Dr. Snyderman said in the two appearances.

This Sunday, August 30th on Dateline NBC, Matt Lauer is airing an hour-long piece called "A Dose of Controversy" which is being billed as an exclusive interview with Andrew Wakefield. They ran an excerpt from it this morning on the Today show. Lauer interviews Wakefield, and you see Wakefield being treated as a "rock star" at meetings of autism cranks. Fortunately Lauer does also interview Dr. Paul Offit, and Offit gets quite animated talking about the dangers of vaccine denial.

For some reason they did not post the clip on their website along with the other clips from this morning. Not sure why this is, you'd think they'd want as much promotion as possible for this thing.

Judging from the clip its not terrible, but it also looks like it might be one of these "false balance" type pieces that really does more of a disservice. It may be TV pandering to controversy and "exclusives" again, I'm afraid.

It airs this Sunday, August 30th at 7PM Eastern on NBC, check your local listings.
__________________
What's the harm in a little misinformation?
I blog about online skepticism at skeptools.com
I post a daily skeptic history fact on Twitter and Facebook
krelnik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th August 2009, 11:51 AM   #14
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
 
Eos of the Eons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,872
This is ridiculous. Wakefield was paid by lawyers and only used 11 kids in his study. That study has long been checked and written off as complete bunk. He then banked on his BS study by patenting single vaccines. He's a crank. Why are they giving him any media time? He should be tarred and feathered, not wooed by the woo woo loving media.

"A dose on controversay"??? Oh, that's rich. More like a dose of complete unethical bunk. I'd use stronger words...

This really steams my buns!!

This guy is still making money off his pile of smarmy bunk!
__________________
Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it.
the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey
my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke
The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!
Eos of the Eons is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th August 2009, 05:41 AM   #15
Lensman
Graduate Poster
 
Lensman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,917
Quote:
This really steams my buns!!
Mmmmmm - steamed buns , can I have bite?
__________________
When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.
If every cloud has a silver lining - doesn't that also mean every silver lining has a cloud?
I have learned that if you upset your wife, she nags you. If you upset her even more you get the silent treatment. Don't you think it's worth the extra effort?
If the early bird catches the worm - shouldn't the worm have stayed in bed?
Lensman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th August 2009, 07:35 AM   #16
Dr Adequate
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,860
Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt View Post
Do you suppose we could get Obama to come out and pubically endorse vaccines? He seems to have a big following in exactly the sort of circles that reject the evidence on this issue.
At which point Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh would explain that vaccination is an evil Democrat plot to kill your children.

The net effect would be negative. When has well-meaning and well-founded comment from a Democrat ever outweighed screaming hysterical lies from wingnuts?

I don't know if you've noticed, but Obama has been trying to improve the nation's health lately. Look how that's been going. Apparently it's going to kill your grandmother and your babies. By giving them medicine. So how's the vaccination thing going to go?

[Oh, I just noticed that you posted this in February. Ah, we were all young and naive once, and didn't realized that a Democrat trying to supply the public with medicine was TRYING TO KILL US ALL omg!!!]

Quote:
Or...I seem to recall a decade or so back, there was a series of PSAs (Public Service Announcements) with George HW Bush and Bill Clinton, asking Americans to donate to relief efforts. Could we launch a similar, cross-party / political viewpoint campaign to urge people to vaccinate their children?
Could we?

It would be great if, for example, Obama and Palin did a commercial saying: "We may have disagreed on everything else ... but we have both vaccinated our children". But how do we get them to do it?
Dr Adequate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th August 2009, 08:04 AM   #17
RossFW
Muse
 
RossFW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 896
...And to highlight just how much we can trust politicians on this, Tony Blair, when Prime Minister of Britain (where the whole MMR lunacy started) point blank refused to confirm whether his youngest son had been given an MMR jab!!
RossFW is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th August 2009, 08:05 AM   #18
Ernie M
Muse
 
Ernie M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 737
Dateline NBC Sunday: Matt Lauer / Dr. Wakefield / Autism / vaccine

Sunday, Aug. 30
7:00 PM Eastern Time

Matt Lauer and Dr. Andrew Wakefield will be on Dateline NBC
Take a look at some of the show's details at:
'A Dose of Controversy'

This should be interesting to see how Matt Lauer will talk about autism/vaccines/controversy, this time.
__________________
paranormalstateillustrated.com

Taking a close look at what you see and hear
on a "Real Life. Drama." TV series.
Ernie M is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th August 2009, 11:10 AM   #19
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
 
Eos of the Eons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,872
They way practically everyone has eaten up the antivaccine codswollep that this year's swine version of H1N1 flu vaccine is "untested", I can only imagine! There's a strain of H1N1 in every vaccine every year! This novel strain is different, but the vaccine is the same every year-insert the varied strains they will cover that year.

Quote:
Both LAIV and TIV contain strains of influenza viruses that are antigenically equivalent to the annually recommended strains: one influenza A (H3N2) virus, one influenza A (H1N1) virus, and one influenza B virus. Each year, one or more virus strains might be changed on the basis of global surveillance for influenza viruses and the emergence and spread of new strains.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals...sition0708.htm


The swine flu vaccine is NOT untested no matter what wingnut harps on it and no matter how many dimwits repeat the wingnut claim.
__________________
Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it.
the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey
my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke
The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!
Eos of the Eons is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th August 2009, 11:38 AM   #20
Dr. Imago
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,619
Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
Sunday, Aug. 30
7:00 PM Eastern Time

Matt Lauer and Dr. Andrew Wakefield will be on Dateline NBC
Take a look at some of the show's details at:
'A Dose of Controversy'

This should be interesting to see how Matt Lauer will talk about autism/vaccines/controversy, this time.
He was on the weekend "Today Show" this morning hawking this show, which is an unusual place for him to normally be on a Sunday.

He's, at the very least, promulgating the controversy. I'm beginning to believe that he's convinced that there might be something to this.

As far as Wakefield, dissenting opinion is welcomed and often encouraged in scientific matters, as it often helps frame the truth. Where, I believe, he has overstepped the bounds is that he will not entertain the possibility that he may be wrong. And, he's made quite a career for himself by giving, what I believe, false hope to many parents that he alone has potentially pinpointed a possible cause... and potentially scared others away from getting their children vaccinated, which is potentially far more dangerous to them.

I liken this "debate" (and I've said this before) to the "facilitated communication" movement for autistic children. People are so desperate to understand this condition that they are willing to give up rational thought in the process... which potentially points to and lends more credence to, at least superficially, the likelihood that this is indeed a primarily a genetic brain disorder passed down from the parents.

~Dr. Imago
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The above post is for informational and/or educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for the professional judgment of, in direct consultation with, a health care professional in diagnosing, treating, and/or preventing any disease or disorder. It is not to be construed as individualized medical advice, diagnosis, or a treatment recommendation. Your reliance upon the information obtained or used by you at, through, or as a result of this post is solely at your own risk.
Dr. Imago is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st August 2009, 06:53 AM   #21
JJM
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,853
There is a review of the TV show http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...e_a_dose_o.php
JJM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st August 2009, 08:10 AM   #22
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
 
Eos of the Eons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,872
Thank you JJM.

It wasn't 100% bad, but Deer could have been treated with more respect and they gave the quacks wayyyyy too much benefit of the doubt.

Quote:
Of course, on pathology, Thoughtful House pathologists apparently found "mild inflammation." What did Krigsman prescribe? Lots of supplements, daily laxatives, and periodic colon cleansing. Can you imagine subjecting an autistic child to laxatives and colon cleanses? As far as I'm concerned, that's child abuse, particularly given that there's no scientific justification for it.

Sadly, A Dose of Controversy falls into the same trap that so many media examinations of pseudoscience fall into. It applied the journalistic convention designed for stories about politics, legal matters, and other human conflict to something it's not well-suited for, the battle between pseudoscience and science. In doing so, it gives the impression that there is actually far more to the pseudoscience than there in fact is. Even worse, it dollops onto that convention another cliche, namely the iconoclast, the rebel, the "brave maverick doctor bucking the system against who the system stands united. Pile it all together, and it was a huge missed opportunity. Two statements illustrate this well, both occuring near the end of the report. First Lauer describes Wakefield as a man who will listen to these parents, respond to them, and stand up for them, while Wakefield says, "I don't know if vaccines cause autism. I know it's a question that needs to be asked and I'm not going to walk away from it." I predict that the phones at Thoughtful House will be ringing off the hook this week.
Wakefield should have gotten burned for what he has done, but again he's just the guy who listens to parents. He listens alright, and then feeds and banks on their fears. That is just plain disgusting. Shame on Lauer and NBC!
__________________
Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it.
the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey
my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke
The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!
Eos of the Eons is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd September 2009, 01:22 PM   #23
JJM
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,853
There is another analysis: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1222
JJM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 03:04 PM   #24
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
"Kudos, Dr. Snyderman, kudos."


That shows me that her argument is immature and holds no merit.

this repeating yourself until someone believes you crap is obvious.

she has/had no valid explanation, just rhetoric school-girl ranting Snyderman: "NOT controversial subject!"

Why isn't it a controversial subject Doctor? Maybe for you it isn't controversial(since you're working for big-pHARMa)

Maybe for you it isn't controversial because you are the one promoting vaccines here, you have much to gain by your message, your repeaticious lies only benefit yourself and the industry of establishment medical psuedo-scicence no-blind-placebo-studies snake-sales-men AMA (pagan/eqyptian symbol of health with two snakes, hmm)

the fraud Nancy Snyderman should be thrown in jail
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 03:10 PM   #25
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons View Post
Thank you JJM.

It wasn't 100% bad, but Deer could have been treated with more respect and they gave the quacks wayyyyy too much benefit of the doubt.



Wakefield should have gotten burned for what he has done, but again he's just the guy who listens to parents. He listens alright, and then feeds and banks on their fears. That is just plain disgusting. Shame on Lauer and NBC!
You are a fool to believe big-pharma over sound science backed by placebo studies..

Vaccine studies, the majority that I have found, use another vaccine as the "control" group, you can't use 2 vaccines in a study to test 1 vaccine, you have to use 1 vaccine (the one you're testing) and nothing at all "placebo" (for the control group)

These vaccine manufacturers do not use placebo studies, they are the biggest fraud in medical history.

If you think Wakefield is your enemy? You are dead wrong, Snyderman is our enemy, she works for the pigs that profit from feeding us.. ROCKEFELLER snake-oil!!!

it all started in 1901, where this vaccine crap came from..

Dr. Russell Blaylock:

"Who created orthodox medicine? Where did that come from? Well, it actually came from the Rockefeller Foundation back in 1901. The Rockefellers at the time...because of the Standard Oil scandals, no one wanted to be called a
Rockefeller. Everybody hated all the Ro...ckefellers. And so his friend Reve...rend Gates, went to John D. Rockefeller, Sr. and told him, he said, "Well, here's a way we can repair your reputation." And he gave him a good example. He said, "There was this man who everybody hated... and he started giving money out for all sorts of philanthropic enterprises, and soon people forgot all of the bad things. So the first thing, because Gates' father was a physician, and John D. Rockefeller's father was a quack snake-oil
salesmen, he said, "Let's form the Rockefeller Institute of Medical Research." And so they created this in 1901. Rockefeller owned what was
called the drug trust: that's the major drug manufacturing firms..."
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 03:24 PM   #26
fls
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,232
Originally Posted by SaveAmericaFightNWO View Post
You are a fool to believe big-pharma over sound science backed by placebo studies..

Vaccine studies, the majority that I have found, use another vaccine as the "control" group, you can't use 2 vaccines in a study to test 1 vaccine, you have to use 1 vaccine (the one you're testing) and nothing at all "placebo" (for the control group)

These vaccine manufacturers do not use placebo studies, they are the biggest fraud in medical history.

If you think Wakefield is your enemy? You are dead wrong, Snyderman is our enemy, she works for the pigs that profit from feeding us.. ROCKEFELLER snake-oil!!!

it all started in 1901, where this vaccine crap came from..

Dr. Russell Blaylock:

"Who created orthodox medicine? Where did that come from? Well, it actually came from the Rockefeller Foundation back in 1901. The Rockefellers at the time...because of the Standard Oil scandals, no one wanted to be called a
Rockefeller. Everybody hated all the Ro...ckefellers. And so his friend Reve...rend Gates, went to John D. Rockefeller, Sr. and told him, he said, "Well, here's a way we can repair your reputation." And he gave him a good example. He said, "There was this man who everybody hated... and he started giving money out for all sorts of philanthropic enterprises, and soon people forgot all of the bad things. So the first thing, because Gates' father was a physician, and John D. Rockefeller's father was a quack snake-oil
salesmen, he said, "Let's form the Rockefeller Institute of Medical Research." And so they created this in 1901. Rockefeller owned what was
called the drug trust: that's the major drug manufacturing firms..."
Heh. Way to live up to your the impression your name provides. I was kinda hoping you were going to be a parody. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Vaccine studies are performed against placebo. Sorry.

Linda
fls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 03:34 PM   #27
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27,335
Great video. If I heard it right, thimerosal (the mercury containing preservative) was removed from vaccines and the rate of autism has increased?

Thimerosal prevents autism!

Now I need a website and a "click to purchase" link.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 03:44 PM   #28
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
 
Eos of the Eons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,872
Oh SaveAmericaFightNWO , the conspiracy nutters have already done the "if you're big pharma in any way shape or form you have nobody's best interests at heart, inclucing their own kids and rest of family" to death, but whatev. No actual facts or points to ponder, just natter natter conpiracy this and that. zzzzzz...

Blaylock?? Now I know you are not serious!
__________________
Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it.
the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey
my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke
The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!

Last edited by Eos of the Eons; 12th May 2010 at 03:47 PM.
Eos of the Eons is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 03:54 PM   #29
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Quote:
Nancy Snyderman is great. She cuts through the bull that so many sCamers and med woos toss out there.

Drew Pinsky is also great about going after alt-med on Loveline. He goes into this rant whenever anyone mentions "toxins".

I'm quite sure that Doctor Drew and other Hollywood-doctors/So-Called-Experts, like Snyderman, Doctor Oz, etc...

Have no real understanding about Bio-Chemistry, and could not find one valid vaccine study ever done to prove their view or recommendation as justified by science, but instead their motives are for mass-poisoning.

That's what toxins are.. poisons. Toxins cause cancer, cell damage, organ damage, immune system dysfunction, etc etc..

Why did Michael Jackson die? Drug interactions. Were drugs ever tested to be taken with other drugs? No. Why are doctors prescribing multiple drugs to patients, when there are not approved to be taken with other drugs, only tested and approved by itself.

Same thing with toxins in babies killing the child, due to over toxicity from too many vaccines, in too short of a time frame.

You stick ALUMINUM and MERCURY, don't forget FORMALDEHYDE, Polysorbate 80, monkey kidney cells, bovine cells, chicken cells, human aborted fetal cells, etc etc..

Into a child's bloodstream, the most vulnerable area of the body/immune system and they can sit up there and DENY DENY DENY

that these toxic ingredients AND virus do harm these children, just some are damaged worse than others or DIE because of the vaccines. I'm no microbiologist, and I am not a neurologist, but I do know one thing though, they do not take a brain scan of children before and after vaccines, so I'm sure if they did, we could SEE for ourselves, what they have done to our childrens' futures.

I know they hide what they know in plain sight!

Just ask your doctor for the INSERTS for the vaccines, the insert is in the box the vaccines were shipped in.

Its no CONSPIRACY, its an AGENDA!

They do not want us to have REAL medicine, instead they want us coming back for what we THINK is medicine and really its POISON!

You going to the doctor cause you're sick or have a fever from a vaccine, is just like me returning my car, to a bad mechanic to ask him to "fix it".
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 04:57 PM   #30
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27,335
Originally Posted by SaveAmericaFightNWO View Post

[TV Docs] ...have no real understanding about Bio-Chemistry, and could not find one valid vaccine study ever done to prove their view or recommendation as justified by science, but instead their motives are for mass-poisoning.
I'm no bio-chemist, but are you saying that vaccines against Polio, Measles and so on do not help prevent those diseases? Or that small-pox wasn't eradicated by way of vaccination?

I'd think the arguments would be over in light of the history on the subject. And while we are at it, where's the fake vaccine for HIV? I suppose in that case, the Great Medical Conspiracy makes more money by selling another menu of drugs, so it wouldn't be cost effective to develop a vaccine.

You know what? This conspiracy weaving is fun!
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:06 PM   #31
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by fls View Post
Heh. Way to live up to your the impression your name provides. I was kinda hoping you were going to be a parody. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Vaccine studies are performed against placebo. Sorry.

Linda
You're mistaken, I'm talking about a placebo, not a vaccine as a placebo.

I've asked for some of these studies from people like you who believe in such studies.

Here's a study that doesn't use placebo..they use a vaccine instead of a placebo (vaccine as a placebo, instead of how it should be with NO vaccine)


"Hutterite Study: Vaccinating Children for Flu May Help Prevent Transmission, Protect Those Who Are Not Vaccinated"
URL link= sciencedaily com/releases/2010/03/100309161828.htm

Show me one that doesn't look like this?

Good luck finding a study that uses an actual placebo. If you do find one of these rare studies, note the amount of time 2-4 weeks. Not long enough. People have admitted having kidney failure this year up to 8 weeks after vaxes. Cancers take much longer.





"""But what do we really know about vaccines? A review of the medical literature and CDC documents reveals the following FIVE key points:

1. Vaccine studies and clinical trials are relatively small and only include healthy participants. Once approved, vaccines are given to everyone, regardless of their health condition, their family history, or their genetics.

2. Vaccine safety studies are short. Clinical trials frequently monitor side effects for only five days. Reactions to the new Swine Flu vaccine were followed for 21 days, and then the vaccine was called “safe.” These arbitrary cut offs were set years ago by the FDA and drug companies. Safe is a designation based on limited information.

3.Vaccine safety studies do not use a true placebo. The gold standard in medical research is the "placebo-controlled" trial, giving a sugar pill to the control group and then comparing the new product for safety. In vaccine trials, the control group is not given an inert substance, such as a shot of sterile saline. The control group is injected with a vaccine with a “known safety profile.” This is not an inert substance! While this may be acceptable for research, concluding a new vaccine is as “safe as a placebo” is deceptive science for both the patient AND the doctor.

4.Safety concerns about vaccines are more than theoretical. The US government has awarded almost $2billion through the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program to vaccine-injured persons. With vaccines now potentially becoming mandatory, the real costs of unnecessary medical workups and the true risk/benefit of vaccines needs to be critically overhauled.

5. Vaccine-induced antibodies do not correlate with protection. The esteemed medical journal Vaccine clearly stated: "It is known that, in many instances, antibody titers do not correlate with protection." Even the Novartis package insert for the new swine flu vaccine admits that, “Antibody titers that develop after a vaccination have not been correlated with protection from influenza illness.

After 200 years, with our many advances in science, you would think that someone could develop a method to protect babies and adults from infectious disease other than injecting them with animal cells, stray viruses and toxic chemicals.

How can this be called “harmless”? Why do we call it “health and prevention”? """


Edited by Gaspode:  Edited for rule 0

Last edited by Gaspode; 15th May 2010 at 09:42 AM.
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:13 PM   #32
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,286
Originally Posted by SaveAmericaFightNWO View Post
<LOTS>
Can I ask if you're a doctor? Or if you have a background in medicine?
__________________
Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:17 PM   #33
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I'm no bio-chemist, but are you saying that vaccines against Polio, Measles and so on do not help prevent those diseases? Or that small-pox wasn't eradicated by way of vaccination?

I'd think the arguments would be over in light of the history on the subject. And while we are at it, where's the fake vaccine for HIV? I suppose in that case, the Great Medical Conspiracy makes more money by selling another menu of drugs, so it wouldn't be cost effective to develop a vaccine.

You know what? This conspiracy weaving is fun!
No, I don't believe for a second that Orthodox, Rockefellerian petro-chemicals are producing any kind of real immunity.

Diseases are eradicated through good food and safety practices. Diseases started to decline, BEFORE the introductions of vaccines.

No vaccine gives 100% protection, it is only minimal, if any at all, and it is definite, meaning the protection does not last forever and also does not offer natural immunity.

Vaccines against polio caused more polio than the actual virus.

Third world illness is from just that.. the third world..

Once people, in a society, sets up food and safety standards, start washing their hands/bodies with REAL soap(not petroleum) bathe and drink in pure water, not the toxic water in most cities, eat healthier foods... like raw and organic, getting enough exercise and sunlight, taking supplements if the body is deficient or if you know you haven't been eating right.

That is where real immunity is, not some toxic chemicals and a needle prick.

Anyone that believes they'll gain something by injecting these chemicals into their bodies, needs to take a basic course in chemistry.


"And while we are at it, where's the fake vaccine for HIV?"

What are you talking about here? are you referring to Bayer spreading aids knowingly?
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:19 PM   #34
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Can I ask if you're a doctor? Or if you have a background in medicine?
Sure you can ask this, but I don't see how it is relevant, I am not the one advocating sticking deadly chemicals into women and/or children.

Doctor Snyderman is.

My credibility is not being checked here, it is hers.

I am not making any money about (for or against) vaccines, she is.
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:21 PM   #35
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Great video. If I heard it right, thimerosal (the mercury containing preservative) was removed from vaccines and the rate of autism has increased?

Thimerosal prevents autism!

Now I need a website and a "click to purchase" link.
Whoever said thimerosal was removed from vaccines is a liar.

It's been found, time and time again, in children and adult vaccines.

Not just Mercury, but ALUMINUM, FORMALDEHYDE.. etc etc
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:22 PM   #36
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons View Post
The video was worth watching. She didn't back down, not for a second. The last few seconds are something to see, not just read about. I have someone else to add to my hero list now.
hero of what?

mass-poisoning?
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:29 PM   #37
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27,335
Originally Posted by SaveAmericaFightNWO View Post
Vaccines against polio caused more polio than the actual virus.
That should be verifiable.

Originally Posted by SaveAmericaFightNWO View Post
Once people, in a society, sets up food and safety standards, start washing their hands/bodies with REAL soap(not petroleum) bathe and drink in pure water, not the toxic water in most cities, eat healthier foods... like raw and organic, getting enough exercise and sunlight, taking supplements if the body is deficient or if you know you haven't been eating right.
Do you have a placebo condition in mind to test this experiment? My guess is that you would want a serious double blind in place to confirm the results.


I said --"And while we are at it, where's the fake vaccine for HIV?"

You asked --"What are you talking about here? are you referring to Bayer spreading aids knowingly?"

No, nothing to do with Bayer. I was just thinking that the vaccine conspiracy was missing an opportunity. After all, wasn't the idea that they fake up vaccines as a way to weaken otherwise healthy people so they will then become customers? (Reminds me of the Microsoft business model actually.) Forgive me if I misunderstood the thrust of your ideas.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:32 PM   #38
TSR
Illuminator
 
TSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,783
Originally Posted by SaveAmericaFightNWO View Post
Good luck finding a study that uses an actual placebo. If you do find one of these rare studies, note the amount of time 2-4 weeks. Not long enough. People have admitted having kidney failure this year up to 8 weeks after vaxes. Cancers take much longer.
.
Googled "vaccine double blind placebo" Roughly 2 million hits.

One of the first:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9040712
Quote:
We conducted a multicenter, prospective, randomized, double-blind trial of influenza immunization in patients with relapsing/remitting MS. In the autumn of 1993, 104 patients at five MS centers received either standard influenza vaccine or placebo. Patients were followed for 6 months for evaluation of neurologic status and the occurrence of influenza
Your turn: how did you determine that polio vaccine caused more polio than it prevented?

Show me the statistical study that polio was on the decline before the introduction of the vaccine?
.
TSR is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:40 PM   #39
SaveAmericaFightNWO
Scholar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
That should be verifiable.



Do you have a placebo condition in mind to test this experiment? My guess is that you would want a serious double blind in place to confirm the results.


I said --"And while we are at it, where's the fake vaccine for HIV?"

You asked --"What are you talking about here? are you referring to Bayer spreading aids knowingly?"

No, nothing to do with Bayer. I was just thinking that the vaccine conspiracy was missing an opportunity. After all, wasn't the idea that they fake up vaccines as a way to weaken otherwise healthy people so they will then become customers? (Reminds me of the Microsoft business model actually.) Forgive me if I misunderstood the thrust of your ideas.
Where are the placebo studies that show that vaccines are safe and effective??



On another note:..
HIV has nothing to do with Bayer? wtf??

MSNBC reports Bayer knew they spread aids through their vaccines
youtube com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs
SaveAmericaFightNWO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2010, 05:41 PM   #40
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27,335
OK, I found some data for you on polio.
http://www.post-polio.org/ir-usa.html

You have to look into the page to find the data you want, but polio was not "trending downward" or "on the decline" before the vaccine was introduced in 1955. There were ups and downs, but not a significant trend downward. Then, suddenly, after the vaccine is introduced, the numbers fall off dramatically.

To say the vaccine caused more disease than it prevented seems incorrect.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:31 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.