ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags bigfoot , dna , Ed Smith , Melba Ketchum

Reply
Old 26th February 2013, 06:38 PM   #4001
Jerrymander
Scholar
 
Jerrymander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 117
So, looking back in genetic history and genomes is far more complicated than matching the DNA of one people to another (as in crime labs)?
Jerrymander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 06:52 PM   #4002
RedRatSnake
Slithering Through life
 
RedRatSnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,625
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
This is great!

Thanks!
Dido ~

Tim
RedRatSnake is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 06:53 PM   #4003
Jodie
Master Poster
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,555
Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
I found this gem conversation of evolutionary biologists critiquing the paper.

http://doubtfulnews.com/2013/02/brea...tch-sequences/
Panda DNA, where in the heck did she get that from? DNA are Us? Let's pick the most remote thing anyone could find in North America and mix it with human DNA?
__________________
testis unus, testis nullus
quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 07:05 PM   #4004
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,541
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Panda DNA, where in the heck did she get that from? DNA are Us? Let's pick the most remote thing anyone could find in North America and mix it with human DNA?
Humanda.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 07:09 PM   #4005
Jodie
Master Poster
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,555
Mutant panda DNA........it just seems so south park.
__________________
testis unus, testis nullus
quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 07:16 PM   #4006
RedRatSnake
Slithering Through life
 
RedRatSnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,625
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Mutant panda DNA........it just seems so south park.
LOL ~ This just keeps getting better and better, I just about fell out of my chair when they said that about the Panda DNA~

Tim
RedRatSnake is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 07:33 PM   #4007
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,541
They did talk about Ketchum (DVM) going to Gen Bank and cutting out sequences, but I don't know if that's possible.

Does anyone here?
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 07:42 PM   #4008
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
she probably went to the Genbank and tried to make a withdrawl
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 08:27 PM   #4009
River
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,461
Youtube link to the fun for folks. If only they knew mulder from the bff, this wouldve been even funnier.


Breaking Bio Episode 19

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
“Don't believe everything you see on the Internet.” ― Abraham Lincoln

Last edited by River; 26th February 2013 at 08:29 PM.
River is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th February 2013, 08:42 PM   #4010
RedRatSnake
Slithering Through life
 
RedRatSnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,625
I didn't pick up on that at all, Way! TA Go ~River~ That is dead on muldur's spec's.



Tim

Last edited by RedRatSnake; 26th February 2013 at 08:50 PM. Reason: ~
RedRatSnake is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 12:49 AM   #4011
DennyT
Master Poster
 
DennyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Sorry, I'm still sitting atop a big pile of turnips on this truck, and I've never heard of "Dreamland." (Looks like some kind of New Age-y woo-factory.)

I'd still like some info on this bleach thing. If TheMelba was perpetuating this level of fraud, i.e., intentionally manipulating the samples herself, then would she not be guilty of real, you're-going-to-jail fraud as opposed to "Sorry Your Honor, I actually was stupid enough to believe those samples had bigfoot DNA" fraud?
By "this bleach thing," are you are referring to what Justin Smeja says that Dr. Ketchum allegedly asked him to do to the remaining "Sierra steak", on speaker phone with three other witnesses? If you are, then "the bleach thing" is really the "bleach-formaldehyde-water thing."

As far as some other "info," I can tell you that one of the witnesses was so disgusted that he walked out shortly thereafter. Allegedly.

If she did it on purpose, surely she would have listed a reference to the original discoverers of the process. So I did look in the list of references at the end of the paper, to see if there were any that had key words or titles like,
Quote:
"How to make your DNA look like a hybrid of 4 different animals by using bleach, formaldehyde and water"
but I didn't find any. So that would be against her having done it on purpose. Of course, I could be wrong on that particular assumption.

I hope that helps. As far as the fraud/stupid dichotomy, I suggest that you ask a person who would have insights on that topic, and that person is Casey Mullens, the person listed as the editor of the journal that was created on Jan 4 and, according to Dr. Ketchum, was bought by her after doing an authentic peer review on her paper, and reworked into Denovo Scientific Journal. You find Jimmy Hoffa Amelia Earhart Santa Claus Casey Mullins, and maybe your questions will be answered.
__________________
previously known as parnassus

Last edited by DennyT; 27th February 2013 at 01:28 AM.
DennyT is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 04:49 AM   #4012
Jodie
Master Poster
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,555
Casey Mullins is just as elusive as bigfoot.
__________________
testis unus, testis nullus
quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 06:47 AM   #4013
The Shrike
Master Poster
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,717
Thanks parnassus.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 08:12 AM   #4014
calwaterbear
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
So, looking back in genetic history and genomes is far more complicated than matching the DNA of one people to another (as in crime labs)?
Absolutely Jerry. ID is actually pretty simple and basic. You essentially look at 13 specific locations on the DNA - each of those locations contain a series of tandom repeats of DNA. The number of repeats is the key here. so you might have 6 repeats at location 1, , 22 repeats at location 2, 2 repeats at location 3 etc. Those number of repeats are pretty much random, so the chance of your numbers of repeats matching exactly anyone elses numbers of repeats at all locations - well thats almost impossible.

So thats what CODIS - the database used in criminolgy use. And the Military ID system as well.

Whole genomes, you are now dealing with 3 billion letters, and various places of those 3 billion letters can tell us alot about your evolutionary past, who you are related to, what species you belong too, what species you are most closely related too etc.

so in a nutshell - individual ID is pretty much stone dead simple. Species ID BTW is real simple too (unless you are melba, once she got the message loud and clear that she had human DNA - she had to go to woo woo land to try and justify continued fleecing of the old, infirm, and stupid!)
calwaterbear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 08:24 AM   #4015
calwaterbear
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 248
Uh Oh, Melba frees convicted Murderers!

So I doubtit posted this video, which is great, but It , just in passing , mentioned an unintended consequence of this paper, that I had never considered.
Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
So lets say you are a defense lawyer, and your client has been put away for life, or sentenced to death, based in part on DNA evidence.
And just for a moment, lets suppose the DNA work was done in any one of the labs that are associated with the co-authors of this study!

Any good defense attorney would immediately file an appeal based on "new evidence" and would haul the coauthor into court, easily demonstrate that the Melba paper is complete BS, and challenge the coauthor to prove that they were indeed competent, because the paper proves otherwise.

This changes the "lets pretend and fleece the uninformed game" into one that may have real consequences. If one single Defense attorney in Texas, or Michigan or wherever else the co authors are located, get wind of this - there is going to be hell to pay!

Congratulations Melba, this just became damned serious!
Robin, you better get on the phone right now, and you better make sure all of the co-authors know whats coming!
CWB

Last edited by calwaterbear; 27th February 2013 at 08:55 AM.
calwaterbear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 11:31 AM   #4016
DennyT
Master Poster
 
DennyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Thanks parnassus.
yer welcome, dude pal podna buddy bro my brother capn ma'am garcon homie Doctor.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but I think The Shadow said it best, back in the days of radio: "Who knows........?"
__________________
previously known as parnassus
DennyT is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 11:56 AM   #4017
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,675
I know where she could have gotten some opossum DNA...
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 01:24 PM   #4018
idoubtit
Critical Thinker
 
idoubtit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 364
Originally Posted by calwaterbear View Post
So I doubtit posted this video, which is great, but It , just in passing , mentioned an unintended consequence of this paper, that I had never considered.


So lets say you are a defense lawyer, and your client has been put away for life, or sentenced to death, based in part on DNA evidence.
And just for a moment, lets suppose the DNA work was done in any one of the labs that are associated with the co-authors of this study!

Any good defense attorney would immediately file an appeal based on "new evidence" and would haul the coauthor into court, easily demonstrate that the Melba paper is complete BS, and challenge the coauthor to prove that they were indeed competent, because the paper proves otherwise.
...

Congratulations Melba, this just became damned serious!
CWB
Well, I didn't say that, the scientists in the video did. But it also struck me as rather important.

What I'm wondering is... how could 60% be "junk" that doesn't match up? Can someone explain that to me.
__________________
Sharon Hill
About Me
Editor, Doubtful News
Blog: idoubtit.wordpress.com
Twitter: idoubtit
idoubtit is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 02:03 PM   #4019
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,675
http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/myakka2011/

Let's not forget this sasquatch mask/costume when considering Matilda.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 03:59 PM   #4020
DennyT
Master Poster
 
DennyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Thanks parnassus.
Oh, I did find this reference: Cherones T. and David L. (1993) "Effects of various reagents on seinological laboratory tests."
I can't seem to cut and paste the relevant section so here is the link; just go there and use your search function repeatedly to find the phrase "test tube" (without the quotes). I think those passages will give you some insight into what may have happened, or you could read the whole thing, it's pretty interesting.

Journal of DNA Laboratory Procedures and Reagents, Vol 5 (7) p. 508.

You know me, Al....always glad to help.
__________________
previously known as parnassus

Last edited by DennyT; 27th February 2013 at 04:18 PM.
DennyT is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 05:20 PM   #4021
DennyT
Master Poster
 
DennyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566
Well, shades of Goldilocks and the Three Bears:

Quote:
"who's been hybridizing in MY bed???"
you may want to visit the BFF. At post 572 (the number seems to be changing--its the one with all the colored letters), Tyler H. shows the homologies in a stretch of ThePaper's DNA to take a squint at what happens when, I suppose, (if this is real) Papa Bear finds Goldilocks in his bed. Personally, I favor the "son-of-a-bleach" explanation, over the "I had BigBear's Baby" rationale. But what do I know?

Yes, people, it's time to start laughing.* C'mon Mulder, even you have got to give it up now.

This whole thing is like, Cardiff Giant part II.

Quote:
Hull hired men to carve out a 10-foot-4.5-inch-long (3.2 m) block of gypsum in Fort Dodge, Iowa, telling them it was intended for a monument to Abraham Lincoln in New York. He shipped the block to Chicago, where he hired Edward Burghardt, a German stonecutter, to carve it into the likeness of a man and swore him to secrecy.

Various stains and acids were used to make the giant appear to be old and weathered, and the giant's surface was beaten with steel knitting needles embedded in a board to simulate pores. In November 1868, Hull transported the giant by rail to the farm of William Newell, his cousin. By then, he had spent US$2,600 on the hoax.

Nearly a year later, Newell hired Gideon Emmons and Henry Nichols, ostensibly to dig a well, and on October 16, 1869 they found the giant. One of the men reportedly exclaimed, "I declare, some old Indian has been buried here!"[2]
Exhibition and exposure as fraud

Newell set up a tent over the giant and charged 25 cents for people who wanted to see it. Two days later he increased the price to 50 cents.[2] People came by the wagon load.

Archaeological scholars pronounced the giant a fake, and some geologists even noticed that there was no good reason to try to dig a well in the exact spot the giant had been found. Yale palaeontologist Othniel C. Marsh called it "a most decided humbug". Some Christian fundamentalists and preachers, however, defended its authenticity.[3]

Eventually, Hull sold his part-interest for $23,000 (equivalent to $423,000 in 2013)
*OK, Wally, you don't have to.
__________________
previously known as parnassus

Last edited by DennyT; 27th February 2013 at 05:43 PM.
DennyT is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 05:28 PM   #4022
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
I think it's post 570 parn
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 05:38 PM   #4023
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,541
Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
Well, shades of Goldilocks and the Three Bears:



you may want to visit the BFF. At post 572 (the number seems to be changing--its the one with all the colored letters), Tyler H. shows the homologies in a stretch of ThePaper's DNA to take a squint at what happens when, I suppose, (if this is real) Papa Bear finds Goldilocks in his bed. Personally, I favor the "son-of-a-bleach" explanation, over the "I had BigBear's Baby" rationale. But what do I know?

Yes, people, it's time to start laughing.* C'mon Mulder, even you have got to give it up now. This is Cardiff Giant part II.

*OK, Wally, you don't have to.
Ursus sapiens cognatus?
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 06:22 PM   #4024
DennyT
Master Poster
 
DennyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566
This may be a good stopping point for me: 2565 posts, and things are right (or getting there) in the bigfoot world, it seems to me. I 'm gettin out before the next great incarnation of PT Barnum comes along with yet another Bigfoot sideshow attraction for me to get interested in.

I'd like to thank everyone for the information, opinions, insights, findings, and laughs...the Sheriff for keeping things in order around here, kitakaze for his inspired rants and actual research, calwaterbear for his dedication to truth, justice and the American way, The Shrike for his depth of knowledge, good humor and compassion, Drewbot for his energy and support, Tontar the fearless, and of course GT, Vort, Stank, Mike, Correa, LT, River, Red, idoubt, our departed BushPilot and AttorneyTom, jerry, Resume, RayG, ole Bill, Odinn and even converts Jodie and OS and dozens of others I can't recall right now. A special shout out goes to that birdguy sockpuppet "Cg" who flashed though our skies like a meteor, then crashed to earth. you all know who I mean. I loved him.

Particular respect of a different kind goes to Tyler H and Bert C, and to Justin Smeja; whatever else I might take issue with them on, they did the right thing on this, and that is not always easy to do. I hope they don't suffer for it.

Keep the fires burning...I'll see you ladies on down the road.

parnassus
__________________
previously known as parnassus

Last edited by DennyT; 27th February 2013 at 06:31 PM.
DennyT is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 06:34 PM   #4025
RedRatSnake
Slithering Through life
 
RedRatSnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,625
Take Care Parn. Thanks for giving me a chance to turn things around, thanks for all the awesome posts, we will C Ya another day ~

Tim
RedRatSnake is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 07:08 PM   #4026
River
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,461
Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
snarfed for brevity

Yes, people, it's time to start laughing.* C'mon Mulder, even you have got to give it up now.




*OK, Wally, you don't have to.

Certainly makes you wonder if there is a possibility of fraud depending on what type of contracts were drawn up between them. It'll be interesting to see that side of it play out. I hope Wally will be forthcoming publicly.
__________________
“Don't believe everything you see on the Internet.” ― Abraham Lincoln
River is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2013, 07:34 PM   #4027
Jodie
Master Poster
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,555
Bye Parn, see you when the next "Big Thing" rolls around.
__________________
testis unus, testis nullus
quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 07:59 AM   #4028
The Shrike
Master Poster
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,717
Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
This whole thing is like, Cardiff Giant part II.
I've seen said giant on display at the Farmer's Museum in Cooperstown, NY. Very cool. http://www.farmersmuseum.org/

Laters, parnassus.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 08:05 AM   #4029
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,409
Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
This may be a good stopping point for me: 2565 posts, and things are right (or getting there) in the bigfoot world, it seems to me. I 'm gettin out before the next great incarnation of PT Barnum comes along with yet another Bigfoot sideshow attraction for me to get interested in.
Take care man. If the Melba Saga takes a really wild turn I won't be surprised to see you back here.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 11:27 AM   #4030
Vortigern99
Philosopher
 
Vortigern99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,925
Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
This may be a good stopping point for me: 2565 posts, and things are right (or getting there) in the bigfoot world, it seems to me. I 'm gettin out before the next great incarnation of PT Barnum comes along with yet another Bigfoot sideshow attraction for me to get interested in.

I'd like to thank everyone for the information, opinions, insights, findings, and laughs...the Sheriff for keeping things in order around here, kitakaze for his inspired rants and actual research, calwaterbear for his dedication to truth, justice and the American way, The Shrike for his depth of knowledge, good humor and compassion, Drewbot for his energy and support, Tontar the fearless, and of course GT, Vort, Stank, Mike, Correa, LT, River, Red, idoubt, our departed BushPilot and AttorneyTom, jerry, Resume, RayG, ole Bill, Odinn and even converts Jodie and OS and dozens of others I can't recall right now. A special shout out goes to that birdguy sockpuppet "Cg" who flashed though our skies like a meteor, then crashed to earth. you all know who I mean. I loved him.

Particular respect of a different kind goes to Tyler H and Bert C, and to Justin Smeja; whatever else I might take issue with them on, they did the right thing on this, and that is not always easy to do. I hope they don't suffer for it.

Keep the fires burning...I'll see you ladies on down the road.

parnassus
You sir are a class act. Fare thee well in whatever endeavor you choose to fill your days.
__________________
"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix
Vortigern99 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 02:00 PM   #4031
Drewbot
Illuminator
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,493
Drops mike, walks off stage.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 02:06 PM   #4032
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,675
Parn, see you down the road. Don't take any wooden sasquatch tokens.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 02:08 PM   #4033
Correa Neto
Philosopher
 
Correa Neto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,180
Fair winds and following seas and long may your big jib draw, Parnassus!
__________________
Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me:
Together we can find the cure
Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too…
Correa Neto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 02:16 PM   #4034
Jerrymander
Scholar
 
Jerrymander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Panda DNA, where in the heck did she get that from? DNA are Us? Let's pick the most remote thing anyone could find in North America and mix it with human DNA?
They explain this. The giant panda is the only bear species to have its full genome sequenced hence when they tested Ketchum's novel DNA it's closest match was the panda. In other words, its bear DNA (likely black bear).
Jerrymander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 03:52 PM   #4035
Jodie
Master Poster
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,555
Ahh thanks, I missed that part of it. It would have been funnier if she had just lifted some Panda DNA from a local zoo and mixed it in a blender.
__________________
testis unus, testis nullus
quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 04:32 PM   #4036
jerrywayne
Muse
 
jerrywayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 610
Happy trails, parn.
jerrywayne is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 08:02 PM   #4037
Graham2001
Muse
 
Graham2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 756
Originally Posted by calwaterbear View Post
So I doubtit posted this video, which is great, but It , just in passing , mentioned an unintended consequence of this paper, that I had never considered.


So lets say you are a defense lawyer, and your client has been put away for life, or sentenced to death, based in part on DNA evidence.
And just for a moment, lets suppose the DNA work was done in any one of the labs that are associated with the co-authors of this study!

Any good defense attorney would immediately file an appeal based on "new evidence" and would haul the coauthor into court, easily demonstrate that the Melba paper is complete BS, and challenge the coauthor to prove that they were indeed competent, because the paper proves otherwise.

This changes the "lets pretend and fleece the uninformed game" into one that may have real consequences. If one single Defense attorney in Texas, or Michigan or wherever else the co authors are located, get wind of this - there is going to be hell to pay!

Congratulations Melba, this just became damned serious!
Robin, you better get on the phone right now, and you better make sure all of the co-authors know whats coming!
CWB
Do the co-authors even exist?
__________________
"I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!"
'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail

Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...
Graham2001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2013, 09:22 PM   #4038
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
tsig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 33,941
Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Do the co-authors even exist?
Do the lab reports?
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2013, 08:43 AM   #4039
calwaterbear
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Do the co-authors even exist?
yes they do, the ones i contacted did some extraction work, sent the results to melba, but did no analysis, I have no idea how that qualified them as a co-author, thats just a Gel Jockey Job. I have no idea who actually did the analysis, and I have not contacted the labs who make there living off of doing work for law enforcement, i would be very interested to hear what they had to say about their credibility in a court of law!
calwaterbear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2013, 12:57 PM   #4040
HarryHenderson
Muse
 
HarryHenderson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 982
I'm sorry to see Parnassus go. He's always been an intelligent contributor with a truly great sense of humor and whom I've made it a point to pay attention to. I'll have bet wrong if he never comes back.
__________________
"The KISS thing, when you really look at it has become this huge monster, despite the fact that critics say that doing games and slot machines and golf courses is not credible. Critics still live in their mother's basement. We own the world." - Gene Simmons
HarryHenderson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:06 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.