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Tags connie sonne , denmark , dowsing , million dollar challenge

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Old 13th July 2009, 04:45 PM   #281
LostAngeles
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
Was it the last card? I don't recall such an even occurring.

Besides, I thought you had determined that the spirits that guide you decided this was not your time to shine?
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Old 13th July 2009, 04:56 PM   #282
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I'm now sorry I prematurely congratulated you on your dignified conduct, Connie. I see I was mistaken.

Is it at all possible that you are wrong? Because if we do think about it, as you suggest, than it's much easier to believe that you failed because your odds of success were one in a thousand (in other words, no better than anyone else's) than because you were the victim of an elaborate hoax.

If you had succeeded, than everyone here would have been prepared to accept that your claims deserve to be taken seriously, or at least that further investigation is warranted. What would it to take for you to admit you are in error?
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Old 13th July 2009, 06:11 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
Since this event was recorded I am sure that it will be possible to review the video and see if your claim has merit. I think I know what you are talking about and from my vantage point I could tell that Banachek noticed the card after the envelope had been cut and he had peered inside and then remarked that it was an Ace. I did not feel that he had in any way known the suit and card until he saw it.

I guess in the end, like most of the hoaxters out there, I knew you would start making accusations and excuses for your charlatan ways. Face it Connie Sonne, you failed the challenge.
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Old 13th July 2009, 06:13 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
You were told and then asked about Banacheck beforehand, you knew who he was and what he did for a living (he is not just a 'card handler', and all magicians have 'card handling' in their bag of tricks) and you still agreed, and he did NOTHING to those envelopes (they were doubled upped and you had to cut both envelopes open). He did nothing but observe and pull cards out of envelopes with you STANDING over him so you could see every move he made).

He did not say that until the envelope was cut open, I was there, and he only said that once he saw it.

The test was fair and extremely controlled. There is no way at all he could have done anything to "cheat" you. You are just saying that now because it seems like an easy "out". You were made aware beforehand totally about who he was, and you could see he did NOTHING to cheat you, NOTHING.

I've just lost all respect for you.
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Last edited by Eos of the Eons; 13th July 2009 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 13th July 2009, 06:24 PM   #285
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If you need further reminding of who he is, then I guess you can go to his website here:
http://www.banachek.org/nonflash/index.htm
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Old 13th July 2009, 06:52 PM   #286
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It does seem like they should have had someone else handling the cards / envelopes, running the test and had Banachek standing to oversee the protocol.
If nothing else just to avoid such claims of impropriety.

We may all think Banachek is a stand up guy, but would any of us trust one of Sylvia Brown or Benny Hinn's cronies. From the believers view it isn't any different.

If my memory is correct the envelope was cut and it appeared he looked inside before announcing the card.
Plus any card switch would have had to been done at the picking & opening of the original picks, not at the verification of the unpicked cards stage. It seems it would be little late.

Ms Sonne failed because dousing doesn't work (duh!)

Would have been cool if she had gotten one anyway. Too bad it was statistically average.
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Old 13th July 2009, 06:55 PM   #287
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I was sitting in the second row, and paid pretty close attention. She was the one that cut open each envelope, and Banachek had to pull on some harder to get them out of the envelopes. She was standing in front of him, it was recorded. He did not say, to the best of my recollection, anything about the contents of an envelope before he open and pulled, or attempted to pull, the cards from the envelopes.

I also went to the press conference afterward. Everyone was respectful. She says that the powers 'out there' weren't ready to be revealed. She seems like a very nice lady, but she is deluded.
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:06 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
Every one of us in the audience knew you would make excuses for your failure (we knew you would fail in advance). Does that mean we are psychic? After all, we saw into the future.

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Old 13th July 2009, 07:08 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
Boy, did you just lose points.

You had earned my respect for your professionalism and respect for the process. Way to piss all over it.
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:17 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
I was cheated! I read your reply. I was hoping for some dignity, I feel cheated now. CHEATED I tell ya.
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:31 PM   #291
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I agree that it took a lot of bravery for Ms. Sonne to appear at TAM7 and attempt to perform her supposed "gift" in front of a large room full of people who, even if they thought it would be interesting if she was able to prove herself and her claim, really expected her to fail.

And here's the deal with the "psychological problems" put simply: if she knew she was faking, she wouldn't have agreed to the protocol. If she genuinely believed in her powers, of course she would try to prove them.

Any excuse she can come up with does not change the fact that there is no proof anywhere, whatsoever than any supernatural or paranormal powers exist.
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:35 PM   #292
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Gzuzkrytz, you are right about both. I can and will demonstrate everything. I can and will ensure you, that have been cheated. I allready have the evidences. Check my name out in first in september. I will get a website where I will put it ALL, also in english. AND all the evidences about Maddie. So you can THEN decide if Im deluded or not!! I can only say now....most of you people out there are wrong, very wrong. My last words here on this site.

Connie
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:50 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
Like many others, I was about to offer my congratulations in the professional way you handled yourself and the grace with which you accepted failure. And like others, I have lost all respect.

As I understand it, the protocol must be agreed to by all parties. I think it is highly likely you knew well in advance that Banachek would be the tester. This gave you ample opportunity to object, even to the point of arriving on stage and saying No, I want someone else.

Instead, you indicated everything was being done fairly. Banachek kept saying Ok? and you kept saying Yes. The event was recorded from several angles. If you feel you were cheated, I encourage you to point out when and how. If you do not do that or retract your accusation, I (and many others) will remain convinced that you are not only a charlatan but also a sore loser.
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:52 PM   #294
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This makes me sad. Does this always happen?
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:57 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by mr. ottle View Post
This makes me sad. Does this always happen?
It would be too much work to find a case where this doesn't happen. So, while I won't say this always happens... it is not surprising that it did.
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Old 13th July 2009, 08:00 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Gzuzkrytz, you are right about both. I can and will demonstrate everything. I can and will ensure you, that have been cheated. I allready have the evidences. Check my name out in first in september. I will get a website where I will put it ALL, also in english. AND all the evidences about Maddie. So you can THEN decide if Im deluded or not!! I can only say now....most of you people out there are wrong, very wrong. My last words here on this site.

Connie
Ma-mom-ma-mamma said that I got's these dowsing powers. Your wrong!


I am not sorry for ridiculing you, nor should I be sorry. You failed a controlled test and called the testers cheaters. That is a cry-baby poor sport, a highly technical term. Nothing aggravates me more than someone who doesn't take responsibility for their actions. You failed with the protocol YOU agreed to. Grow up and accept reality.
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Old 13th July 2009, 08:02 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons View Post
It would be too much work to find a case where this doesn't happen. So, while I won't say this always happens... it is not surprising that it did.
Sad isn't it.
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Old 13th July 2009, 08:17 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Gzuzkrytz, you are right about both. I can and will demonstrate everything. I can and will ensure you, that have been cheated. I allready have the evidences. Check my name out in first in september. I will get a website where I will put it ALL, also in english. AND all the evidences about Maddie. So you can THEN decide if Im deluded or not!! I can only say now....most of you people out there are wrong, very wrong. My last words here on this site.

Connie
Why September and not now? If you really have the evidence that you say you have, there is no need to wait for one and a half month.

Or is it because you need that long to peek into Photoshop and video-editing to fabricate your evidence and doctor the videos to make them show what you want to make them show, but which isn't there?

You are a really bad loser. Shame on you for saying that people cheated on you.

No greetings to you,

Chris
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Old 13th July 2009, 08:29 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Gzuzkrytz, you are right about both. I can and will demonstrate everything. I can and will ensure you, that have been cheated. I allready have the evidences. Check my name out in first in september. I will get a website where I will put it ALL, also in english. AND all the evidences about Maddie. So you can THEN decide if Im deluded or not!! I can only say now....most of you people out there are wrong, very wrong. My last words here on this site.

Connie
I already know the answer. Does that make me psychic?
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Old 13th July 2009, 09:03 PM   #300
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If Ms. Sonne truly believes she has been cheated by Jref, she is free to look into arbitration and to present her proof. Certainly she could even file a civil claim and a complaint (including her proof) with the District Attorney for fraud.

Something tells me none of this will occur.
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Old 13th July 2009, 09:15 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by laca View Post
The claim was that she could perform the dowsing, not that she could perform the dowsing in case the entities chose to. If the claim were the latter, she'd won the MDC. So, from my point of view she was wrong about her ability as per the claim in question.
You're being pedantic, but that's your right. I'll join you. She performed her end of the contract flawlessly. She was not required to dowse the cards correctly - she was required to make an attempt should she deem the conditions suitable. The results of her attempts were to then be evaluated. She did not breach the contract in any way, shape or form.

So, why should she apologize for fulfilling a contract? Had she passed, would you expect the JREF to apologize?
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Old 13th July 2009, 09:18 PM   #302
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Has the video been uploaded anywhere yet? If not, any idea when?
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Old 13th July 2009, 10:18 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons View Post
It would be too much work to find a case where this doesn't happen. So, while I won't say this always happens... it is not surprising that it did.
It's sad, but not surprising, that it's easier to conclude that she's been cheated (how, we'll never know) than to reassess what kind of abilities she may be lacking.
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Old 13th July 2009, 10:18 PM   #304
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The JREF is aware of this post by Connie Sonne. We're in various states of travel as we return from TAM, and we'll respond when we've carefully considered what Connie has said. We do have video of the test and the press conference following the event.
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Old 13th July 2009, 11:21 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
Ooooh, you came SO CLOSE! You actually had a great many hardcore skeptics' respect for not coming up with lame excuses for the test failure. Even though you made one in advance.

And then you went and pissed it all away.

So close! And yet so par for the course..
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Old 13th July 2009, 11:59 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie
Now that's graceful... Thanks Connie for proving my earlier point. You're no different from all the other seriously deluded people out there.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:04 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Gzuzkrytz, you are right about both. I can and will demonstrate everything. I can and will ensure you, that have been cheated. I allready have the evidences. Check my name out in first in september. I will get a website where I will put it ALL, also in english. AND all the evidences about Maddie. So you can THEN decide if Im deluded or not!! I can only say now....most of you people out there are wrong, very wrong. My last words here on this site.

Connie
Looking forward to that. Although we do not have to wait until september to see that you're way beyond deluded. And yes, most of us people out there are very wrong. About many things. Not about you though.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:06 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by UncaYimmy View Post
You're being pedantic, but that's your right. I'll join you. She performed her end of the contract flawlessly. She was not required to dowse the cards correctly - she was required to make an attempt should she deem the conditions suitable. The results of her attempts were to then be evaluated. She did not breach the contract in any way, shape or form.

So, why should she apologize for fulfilling a contract? Had she passed, would you expect the JREF to apologize?
I never accused her of breach of contract. She made a claim. She couldn't live up to that claim. She was wrong.

If I say I can fly and then it turns out I can't, doesn't that mean I was wrong?
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:16 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by connie sonne View Post
Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!
Well, I thought it would come to this: an undignified exit by a deeply deluded person.

You declined to make a self test of your claimed ability before the event, even though you were advised to do so. You could have been spared the embarrassment if you had tried.

Will you now try a self test afterwards to see if you really can do this trick that you attempted for the very first time in front of a big audience?
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:20 AM   #310
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If she earns money from her abilities she does not have then her income will go down. There are lots of blogs that have commented about her in the last 24 hours. All of them say she failed. From now on anyone googling her name will find that she failed. It would not be hard to find this thread even though the searcher may not have heard of JREF before.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:26 AM   #311
laca
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
If she earns money from her abilities she does not have then her income will go down. There are lots of blogs that have commented about her in the last 24 hours. All of them say she failed. From now on anyone googling her name will find that she failed. It would not be hard to find this thread even though the searcher may not have heard of JREF before.
Good.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:42 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
You declined to make a self test of your claimed ability before the event, even though you were advised to do so. You could have been spared the embarrassment if you had tried.
The problem of course is that such people think the self-testing they have done is equivalent to the sort of test JREF will do. Read her description of how she convinced her parents again:

Quote:
I have tested all my abilities in different way with different witness many times. The first time ever, I told my parents of this, I convinced them like that: I wrote all the letters down on cardboards. Placed them in a horseshoeshape on the table with the backsid up. It was very thick cardboards, so I couldn`t see the letters at all. My dad mixed the cards and placed them on the table in front of me. His name is Viggo, and I spelled his name, by dowsing, without one missing letter ! He was convinced.
Now anyone who knows how the ideomotor effect works will be able to see problems with this test. Assuming this is an accurate recollection of what actually happened (and we all know how the memory can cheat) one possibility is that the cards she made herself were sufficiently different from each other to be distinguished upside down, those differences were stored in her brain, and her unconscious mind used that information to indicate the appropriate card via the ideomotor effect. I'm sure others here can think of other possibilities. But it's easy to see how someone who is already convinced of her abilities would not see the need to duplicate the JREF protocol exactly, not understanding that it is specifically designed to eliminate the many ways in which she could have inadvertantly fooled herself with her own self-testing.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:53 AM   #313
prewitt81
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Though the excuses and finger-pointing are typical of test failures, it's still sad. Her accusations will be easily refuted once video of the challenge is released.
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:07 AM   #314
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lovenwlink wrote:

"It does seem like they should have had someone else handling the cards / envelopes, running the test and had Banachek standing to oversee the protocol. If nothing else just to avoid such claims of impropriety."

I agree with this and I agreed with it before Ms. Sonne made her ridiculous accusations against Banachek. We all trust him to perform honestly in a test like this, but he's still a magician by profession. I felt a little weird every time he had her confirm that an envelope was empty. Every time a magician asks me to confirm that an envelope is empty, I know that shenanigans will ensue. If Banachek had made the security guard do all the "handling" I would have felt more comfortable. It all could have been done under Banachek's supervision, but he wouldn't have been handling the cards.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the test as it stands, but I think in future tests, it might be wise to have the professional magician supervise, but be less "hands-on." One would think that this would take away the possibility of an accusation of cheating, but I'm sure they'll find another way to accuse.

Ward
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:22 AM   #315
laca
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
lovenwlink wrote:

"It does seem like they should have had someone else handling the cards / envelopes, running the test and had Banachek standing to oversee the protocol. If nothing else just to avoid such claims of impropriety."

I agree with this and I agreed with it before Ms. Sonne made her ridiculous accusations against Banachek. We all trust him to perform honestly in a test like this, but he's still a magician by profession. I felt a little weird every time he had her confirm that an envelope was empty. Every time a magician asks me to confirm that an envelope is empty, I know that shenanigans will ensue. If Banachek had made the security guard do all the "handling" I would have felt more comfortable. It all could have been done under Banachek's supervision, but he wouldn't have been handling the cards.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the test as it stands, but I think in future tests, it might be wise to have the professional magician supervise, but be less "hands-on." One would think that this would take away the possibility of an accusation of cheating, but I'm sure they'll find another way to accuse.

Ward
I'd say they asked Banachek to handle the cards exactly because of him being a "magician". That way more attention is drawn to mak sure he's not messing with the cards. If the security guard would have handled the cards there would have been less of that for sure. And who's to say the guy in uniform is not a disguised magician himself?

Anyway, the whole event was filmed from different angles. I'm fairly sure any mischief would be spotted in no time.

ETA: Not to mention that a professional illusionist/mentalist/whatever is perfect for making sure that the test subject is not messing with the cards.

Last edited by laca; 14th July 2009 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:49 AM   #316
pakeha
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connie sonne

Hi, I'm new here.
While awaiting for my application for membership to approved I've read and reread this thread and the others on the subject of Connie Sonne.
And watching the livestreaming of the event at TAM7, along with at one point over 1,600 others.
If the lady feels cheated, let her follow the steps which correspond to that.
Connie Sonne was a Danish constable, if I've understood correctly, and so obviously knows what needs to be done in a case of cheating in this context.
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:55 AM   #317
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I agree completely that the test was valid and the videotapes should prove that.

Of course, anyone could be a magician in disguise---and that's probably what Connie would have said had the security guy handled the cards. I'm just looking for ways (in a future test) to make such claims appear more and more ridiculous.

I believe Banachek SHOULD have been there in close proximity to watch for cheating. I just think if he was in a "look, but don't touch" position, he could have looked for cheating on the part of the applicant without running the risk of being accused of same.

I agree with you that "a professional illusionist/mentalist/whatever is perfect for making sure that the test subject is not messing with the cards." I just believe that that illusionist can perform that duty without messing with the cards him or herself.

Again, the test is valid. She failed with flying colors. I'm not calling for a do-over. I'm not questioning JREF's motives or methods. I can only account for my personal feeling when Banachek would hold a large envelope open for Ms. Sonne to confirm there was nothing in it. It seemed like he was about to pull a rabbit out of the envelope. He didn't, and I don't believe pulled any other switcheroos, but if anyone could.......

I wasn't going to say anything at all because I was afraid that it would seem like an attack on Banachek or JREF. When lovenwlink posted his/her comment, I figured I wasn't completely alone. I think it's worth considering the next time around.

He should have been there. He should have been in close, making sure no one was trying to pull anything.

I've tried to find every way to say this while still making sure that it's clear that I believe everything was on the up and up. I probably failed.

Ward

Last edited by wardenclyffe; 14th July 2009 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:58 AM   #318
laca
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Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
Hi, I'm new here.
While awaiting for my application for membership to approved I've read and reread this thread and the others on the subject of Connie Sonne.
And watching the livestreaming of the event at TAM7, along with at one point over 1,600 others.
If the lady feels cheated, let her follow the steps which correspond to that.
Connie Sonne was a Danish constable, if I've understood correctly, and so obviously knows what needs to be done in a case of cheating in this context.
Welcome to the forum.

By all means, she should go ahead with the proceedings if she feels she has been cheated. I don't remember anyone suggesting that she don't. My prediction is that she won't, because that would prove her definitely wrong. And to a deluded person that is like taking away their air.
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Old 14th July 2009, 02:14 AM   #319
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So, Ms Sonne knows she was cheated. The obvious thing to do is take JREF to Court and sue for the $1M and provide the evidence - but instead, she will wait until September and post her accusations on tha intratubes?

I think we all know why she chose the latter action, rather than attempting to clear her good name in a court of law, unless she also suspects that the USA justice system is in league with James Randi?

Ms Sonne, your attitude is surely pathetic and a gut reaction to your failure to do what you claimed to be able to do. Go home, think about this for a while, and then reconsider the idea of making yourself even more of a laughing stock than your post-test posts on this forum made you look.

You may at least attempt to maintain the little respect of others, and dignity that you have left.

Norm
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Old 14th July 2009, 02:28 AM   #320
pakeha
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Originally Posted by laca View Post
Welcome to the forum.

By all means, she should go ahead with the proceedings if she feels she has been cheated. I don't remember anyone suggesting that she don't. My prediction is that she won't, because that would prove her definitely wrong. And to a deluded person that is like taking away their air.
Thanks for the welcome, laca.
Obviously no-one here has suggested the lady desist from the appropriate action and I'm very sorry if my post implied such a thing.
I'd be willing to bet CS never goes near a legal action, which is a shame. Since the venue was Nevada, I'd love to watch a trial where a "dowser" tried to prove that a 'magician' cheated her of her opportunity to win a million dollars before a jury of 12 Nevadans.
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