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#4601 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,800
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Sewer birds?
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#4602 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,955
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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#4603 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 660
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I see you missed the whole point of the sun height graphic. From the hilltop view it is apparent there was enough open space so the trees wouldn't necessarily block the sun. In which case the horizon at the PGF site could have blocked the sun before sunset. I don't claim it was likely that the sun was in full view at 5pm Oct 20 at the PGF site, but apparently it was possible from an astronomical point of view. That's all.
I didn't think the footage of Roger casting a track was from the 2nd reel because I couldn't see the next track and supposedly Roger was filmed "practice" casting. Also, I wasn't convinced that the same camera was used that shot the PGF. However, that has all changed now that I've confirmed the aspect ratio of the 2nd reel frames, plus you've identified the next track and matched the casted track to the LeClerc composite. Nice job! I'm not sure how I missed it but that orange footage didn't help. I'm getting more and more convinced that all the alleged 2nd reel and PGF footage were shot with the same camera. At least their aspect ratios match and I think I found a common scratch on the PGF and some of the 2nd reel frames. Looks like the same scratch might be on the casting frames too. It seems at least they went thru the same machine that scratched each film. Could have been Green's projector I suppose. ![]() So far it's possible the 2nd reel was shot as claimed, after the PGF at the PGF site. Now to pin down the date and time of day. ![]() |
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#4604 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 660
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Nice re-enactment. But you didn't quite nail it. You may be correct that the shadows aren't long enough for 4pm PST Oct 20, but that was the basis of the sundial. Hypothetically, if the casting frame was shot at the PGF site on Oct 20th, it was some time after 12:30pm PST. The sundial shows the position of the sun (azimuth) at 12:30 (1:30pm PDST) when the PGF was supposedly shot. The azimuth angle appears to change by approx 50-60 degrees, which is ~3.5 hours.
The altitude angle (sun height) is a whole other story. I didn't consider it in my hypothetical. I was testing the casting footage as if it was shot as claimed. Maybe the altitude angle would dispute this, as you've attempted to show. Let's have a look. I say you didn't nail your demo because of a few things. You have the camera relative to the sun angles wrong, your body position isn't quite right and your distance from the camera is wrong. What size lens did you use? ![]() So what did the shadow on your face look like? I recommend giving this one another shot by looking up the azimuth for 5pm PDST Oct 20 (which you have done) then look up the time of day that the sun is this height for this time of year in your neck of the woods. Then go out and try it again at this time. But this time try to position the camera and your body so that your shadow is hidden from the camera view. It's more important to test if you can replicate this footage, than try to demonstrate otherwise. If you show several orientations that cover all the possibilities without reproducing this frame then it's busted. But it will take several examples that cover all the bases to do this. Good luck! ETA: Space 2 14.5" long flat objects 41" apart and use them to est your camera distance. Make them appear as in the casting frame. |
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#4605 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Inland NW
Posts: 4,836
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Normal in a weird way. |
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#4606 |
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 14,962
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Mangler got it right also ..
Got to see if I can find the 3D model he made of the casting.. Bingo: ( The modeled sun elevation is 41 degrees. Higher than the Sun maximum on Oct 20 ) I'm sure Óðinn will share with us the problems he has with Mangler's work ... |
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#4607 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,970
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My photo was shot a couple of days ago. Obviously not near Bluff Creek (notice the palm trees). I obviously could only match the sun angle of October 20, not the simultaneous azimuth; I just tried to approximate the angle between solar azimuth and camera axis.
My wife was at work at the time so I just used a tripod and delay timer on my DSLR; thus I had no "director" to help me match the pose exactly. It was shot at about 7 feet, with a crop frame sensor so the effective focal length was around 50-55. But I did about 12 shots and they were all a bit different. It wasn't meant to be anything more than a demonstration of the issue of relative shadow length. |
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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#4608 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,970
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D, no animals were harmed in the making of this film. Except me.
also, I am surprised that no one identified the blobsquatch in the background. ![]() |
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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#4609 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,970
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DeAtley's projector seems to have been a prominent scratcher. Jim McLarin thinks it is possible that the "second reel" was showed Oct 22. Others disagree. At any rate, I think it is a reasonable assumption that Patterson's films were run through DeAtley's projector, possibly several times, either that day or some other day, before release. Common scratches may have arisen from that.
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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#4610 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,706
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#4611 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,706
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Well, we don't know when Dahinden took that elevated photo in 1971. It may have been summer with the sun high in the sky. One thing we do see with the partial sandbar shadowing... it isn't the mountain ridge itself causing the shadowing - it's the dense and towering trees growing on it.
What I'm saying is that your Google horizon view could trick you into thinking that the sandbar still has direct sunlight as late as 5pm on Oct. 20th. Maybe somebody could also calculate the sun angle at Bluff Creek for: Oct. 5th (possible BH day) Oct. 12th (possible BH day) Oct. 17th (possible day of demo cast film as told to Krantz) ![]() |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#4612 |
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 245
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"also, I am surprised that no one identified the blobsquatch in the background."
clearly by the shear size of it and its muscle structure,its to big to be a man in a suit. and could we recreate a suit that good anyway???? best ask some guy who worked for jim henson he'd be your best expert lololol |
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#4613 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,970
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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#4614 |
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 245
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#4615 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 660
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#4616 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,970
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__________________
"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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#4617 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 660
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#4618 |
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 14,962
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Maybe because it was done ?
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#4619 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 660
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Nope. But why don't you ask him?
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#4620 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,706
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Swastika Steve is so screwed up in his analysis to determine the actual location of the PGF that he doesn't even realize that he is looking at a flipped PGF frame. See his video Part 3...
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#4621 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,800
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#4622 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,865
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Nicely done.
I saw a photo from even higher up above the site than has been posted here yet. My first impression on seeing it was how deep and steep the terrain is. I think I'll try to find it because it lends more credence to the doubt there could be direct sunshine at 5 pm. |
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#4624 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,865
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This picture is from "The Larry Lund Collection" here: http:thelarrylundcollection.blogspot.com/ I'll need to look at a topographical map to get the stream orientation, but it is pretty clear how steep and high the terrain is. The sun would have to be at just the right angle shining through the draw or else very high in the sky in order to shine directly on the scene. |
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#4625 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,865
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![]() This is the google earth shot of the site at 41.44 N 123.7 W. Coincidentally the shot was taken on october 13 2006. Not sure what time, but check out the shadows, not quite due north. So it is just before solar noon. Almost all of Bluff Creek is entirely in the shade. I am not sure about the exact location of the photo that I posted earlier because there was no caption to it. But it seems to me that the site would be in the shade at 5 pm in October from this google earth shot. |
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#4626 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,706
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He responded with 100% mumbojumbo.
Originally Posted by River
This is what they are imagining since they make no mention of a flipped frame. If you watch their video and follow the conversation closely - it's obvious that they do not account for a flipped frame at all. They talk as if there is nothing wrong with the scene. Steve & Robert's Patty World Panorama... ![]() |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#4627 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,706
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#4628 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,800
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Yeah, I decided to just post a link to your post, WP. I decided not to try and explain anything to him about the flipped frames at the beginning of that copy of the PGF. Heck, he's unlikely to listen to anything from me.
I remember long ago when the flipped frames were under discussion. I cannot remember if the same copy has the repeated frames as well, though. |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#4629 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,706
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National Geographic showed repeated (looped) frames within the Patty walk scene.
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#4630 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,919
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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#4631 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,955
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How do you know? Do you know if that is an incline or a decline slope? Did you take that into account?
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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#4632 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,706
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__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#4633 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,919
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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#4634 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Inland NW
Posts: 4,836
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Because the camera is so close to the ground and so close to the plaster print I doubt it's possible to accurately calculate how far the thing that looks like the next track is from the plaster track.
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Normal in a weird way. |
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#4635 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,800
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Perspective compression from the camera lens is also a factor imo.
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#4636 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,800
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#4637 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,970
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The Meldrum composite is quite distorted. The images of the distal prints were not taken from a perpendicular POV. This compresses the step length and the length of the print. You can make the trackway look a number of different ways depending on which frames you choose to make the composite.
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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#4638 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,919
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You're right, it is a factor. I didn't have time to deal with it on my lunch break.....so I didn't. At such short distances, though, it wouldn't make a big difference in the diagram. But, in response to WP's post....here is where it measures for a shorter 'step length'....with approx. 20" of space between the footprints... ![]() |
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The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear." |
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#4639 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,800
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There is, what may be a track in the background, right at Roger's eyes.
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#4640 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,970
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can't just measure pixels.
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"Take the children, but LEAVE ME MY MONKEY!" --Dewey Cox, in "Walk Hard: the Dewey Cox Story." "The main skill of bigfoot investigators is finding ways to deny the obvious." --DFoot |
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