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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 11th November 2012, 09:28 AM   #10121
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kitakaze has relocated to Japan.
Quote:
The relocating was sudden, took a lot of preparation and has occupied all of my time since I've been off the forum. What can be done is something I will discuss with Bill in private. I'm sure Bill has pointed out more things to sustain your belief in the film which is fine. This is what his efforts are built around. At the same time he knows the suit exists and where it is, he just has not been able to see it yet for himself to confirm it is the actual suit.
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Old 12th November 2012, 05:31 PM   #10122
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And Munns figured out a way around the discovery of the suit.


"I have also acknowledged that I do remain very open to the idea Roger got a suit and put Bob H in it and filmed him, but equally adament that if that occurred, it's not the PGF we know and Bob H. is not Patty. The recent work I've done more or less destroys Bob H's story as far as i'm concerned, and I'm working on the assembly of test evidence to show why."

Post 2371
http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/...page__st__2370
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Old 13th November 2012, 12:09 AM   #10123
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Well it stands to reason that after filming Bob Heironimus in a bigfoot suit at Bluff Creek that Roger would set that aside once he got a real bigfoot on film.

So I don't see a problem here.
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Old 13th November 2012, 07:18 AM   #10124
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I'm looking forward to this, "The recent work I've done more or less destroys Bob H's story as far as i'm concerned, and I'm working on the assembly of test evidence to show why."

It'll finally give us something interesting to discuss, unless it's as lame as the lens analysis, but considering he used "more-or-less", and "as far as I'm concerned" it looks like he's already hedging his bets.
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Old 13th November 2012, 02:28 PM   #10125
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I see Boing Boing is promoting old, debunked nonsense today:

http://boingboing.net/2012/11/13/unh...bigfoot-m.html
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Old 13th November 2012, 04:47 PM   #10126
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And KK earlier is this thread went to great pains to tell us Bill "Patty is a Real BF" Munns was an upright guy and would tell the world the truth. That just went down in flames.

I'm leaning now more than ever that this whole thing was an KK hoax on the bleevers.
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Old 13th November 2012, 09:31 PM   #10127
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Originally Posted by tube View Post
I see Boing Boing is promoting old, debunked nonsense today:

http://boingboing.net/2012/11/13/unh...bigfoot-m.html
Some of the comments are kinda funny:

The people who dismiss the Patterson video as a "hoax" would also have us believe that there is a human being inside the Mickey Mouse "costume" at Disneyland. But I ask you this: do human beings habitually stand around with their left feet angled up 30 degrees!?! WE ARE THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS, PEOPLE.
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Old 14th November 2012, 10:32 AM   #10128
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
And Munns figured out a way around the discovery of the suit.


"I have also acknowledged that I do remain very open to the idea Roger got a suit and put Bob H in it and filmed him, but equally adament that if that occurred, it's not the PGF we know and Bob H. is not Patty. The recent work I've done more or less destroys Bob H's story as far as i'm concerned, and I'm working on the assembly of test evidence to show why."

Post 2371
http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/...page__st__2370
I have to give Bill Munns credit; he was (apparently) spot-on when he indicated he didn't know how to replicate the "bigfoot" suit. A less honest do-it-yourselfer would have said, "heck, I can do that!" and then failed.
Not Bill. He knew he couldn't do it, then tried anyway, and then failed. I love that certain "ne plus savoir ce qu'on dit" about the man.

I give him his due.
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Old 14th November 2012, 10:39 AM   #10129
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Originally Posted by tube View Post
I see Boing Boing is promoting old, debunked nonsense today:

http://boingboing.net/2012/11/13/unh...bigfoot-m.html
were there any Jack Links ads?
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Old 17th November 2012, 09:04 AM   #10130
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Hmmm...you don't suppose a lot of this BF nonsense is Jack Links trying to secretly promote their jerky? Like paying people to post on blogs about their encounters, that sort of thing, to keep the ball rolling.

When you think of Bigfoot, do you start craving jerky?
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Old 17th November 2012, 09:08 AM   #10131
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Double post, sorry.
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Old 17th November 2012, 01:23 PM   #10132
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There's also Zagnut Candy Bars and Idaho State.
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Old 17th November 2012, 01:33 PM   #10133
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You're right. I hear the word Bigfoot and I have a compulsion to go watch an Idaho State football game and eat Zagnuts and jerky.
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Old 17th November 2012, 06:20 PM   #10134
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What does the verticle face of the Patterson subject imply?

Last edited by jerrywayne; 17th November 2012 at 06:24 PM. Reason: changed question
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Old 17th November 2012, 06:21 PM   #10135
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Are Kit's documentary and discovery of the suit now off the table?
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Old 17th November 2012, 06:29 PM   #10136
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
What does the verticle face of the Patterson subject imply?
The way I understand it, any improbable feature found on the Patterson subject can be attributed to our lack of knowledge regarding Bigfoot physiology.

It's entirely possible that Bigfoots just happen to look like they grew up sleeping on their faces, and that their lower body looks like fur covered waders that have been stuffed with bubble wrap...

Until we snag one, anything goes..
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Old 19th November 2012, 07:02 PM   #10137
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
The way I understand it, any improbable feature found on the Patterson subject can be attributed to our lack of knowledge regarding Bigfoot physiology.

It's entirely possible that Bigfoots just happen to look like they grew up sleeping on their faces, and that their lower body looks like fur covered waders that have been stuffed with bubble wrap...

Until we snag one, anything goes..
The initial scientific reaction to the Patterson film highlighted the incongruous attributes seen in the film: female walking like a male; upper-half ape, lower- half human, hair-covered human-like pendulous breasts on an ape, etc.

But that vertical face intrigues me. It means, at least, we are looking at something more human than ape. Homo erectus had a vertical face, for instance.

Other depictions of sasquatch, Roe or Ostman, for example, have a slightly advancing face. Other depictions have an ape's protruding face.

But Patterson's film subject had a vertical face; a vertical face just like he imagined it would have. His Ostman's Bigfoot, as he drew them for his book, have vertical faces. What a coincidence, huh?
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Old 19th November 2012, 07:23 PM   #10138
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post

But Patterson's film subject had a vertical face; a vertical face just like he imagined it would have. His Ostman's Bigfoot, as he drew them for his book, have vertical faces. What a coincidence, huh?
It would be an interesting, though extensive, study if someone were to take all the prominant accounts starting as far back as they can and correlate each BF feature and when it came into the literature. If you did a cartoon time-lapse of it all, it would show things like early BF with (for example) no saggital crest or pointy head and progress slowly until all accounts have these features. It would be fun to watch the BF phenom morph through time and with the spread of communications, especially the internet. Woila - Bigfoot lives!

Maybe I can get an RA-ship to do this at Idaho State.

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Old 19th November 2012, 08:35 PM   #10139
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The problem with that idea, is that you are not going to find a handful of prominent accounts pre-Patterson..

Nothing a sketch artist could work with ..
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Old 19th November 2012, 09:40 PM   #10140
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Are Kit's documentary and discovery of the suit now off the table?
I'm not sure what "on the table" even means as a practical matter. I don't know anything about producing documentaries and don't know how far he got with whatever he was doing. I understand he did some interviews.

But a person either has to attract a producer or do the production work themselves. If it isn't "put in a can" as they say, it exists as a collection of notes and maybe tape recordings and never becomes available to anyone in a format that is useful.

I'm guessing that's where things stand. I don't know him personally nor even from posting so much. But I didn't have the impression there was any actual production of a documentary taking place. It's definitely further along than my re-creation of Patterson's Thailand trip though.
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Old 19th November 2012, 11:19 PM   #10141
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Making a film these days is relatively easy, comparatively speaking. With a good camera, microphone, and Final Cut, a person can basically do the whole production themselves, from filming it to "in the can" which is now just a digital file.

I wish Kit would drop back in and give us an update. I was always amazed at how well he stood up to the constant harassment on BFF1.
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Old 20th November 2012, 06:03 PM   #10142
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I looked at that old thread from 2010 regarding his documentary. The OP indicated it was a pitch being made to Discovery Channel Canada.

Then it seemed to drift into a documentary he was producing himself, kind of an autobiographical thing with the theme being a guy who has an initial belief in bigfoot and then ends up being a skeptic. Debunking the PGF was a major component of course but the autobiography was the core concept.

I guess there was a youtube channel with some things posted to it along with some of his music videos but I am too incompetent with youtube to figure out where it is, or maybe its gone.

That thread devolved into a long series of Sweaty diagram red herrings and general discussion of bigfoot and PGF stuff, but nothing really pertinent to a pitch to Discovery. I know how book pitches are made to agents who in turn represent you with the publishing houses, but I know nothing about how pitches are made to television shows.

With a book you produce what they call the "elevator pitch", meaning a summary of what the book is about as if just meeting someone in an elevator. You provide some sample writing, like a book chapter. You look at other similar works and show how many books were sold of that nature. The agent doesn't do much more than turn this over to the publishing house. But you can't do this directly unless you are a famous writer already.

I don't know how it is done in television world, but the documentary he started a script for and doing interviews for was this "The Conversion of Kitakaze" program and not a "Debunking the PGF" program. My limited knowledge of the 'footery world suggests that probably everyone who spends time learning about it discovers Kitakaze as a skeptic who the 'footers hate.

But in terms of a wider audience capable of selling twinkies and trojan vibrating twisters on TV I don't think that theme is going to resonate the way the Roger Patterson story itself would - it's an amazing story really. A con man who has a fatal disease but pulls off the big score before he dies and leaves a legacy outlasting every scientist that scoffed at him. An ironic triumph/tragedy.

He has an email in that thread. So someone could ask. I don't have any kind of rapport with him but I do have some interest in Japanese Karaoke girls. Not sure that is the right foundation to work from on this.
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Old 21st November 2012, 08:32 AM   #10143
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Thanks for the summary. Very interesting. I would think making a BF documentary would be a lot of fun (and work), but if it's from the skeptical side, it probably wouldn't be very popular in the long run. People like to believe woo. They go out of their way to believe it. It seems to fill some need to be connected with weirdness. I myself prefer things simple and straightforward, but I'm beginning to think I'm an exception statistically speaking. Although the popularity of some of the Youtubes put up by Donald Prothero and Michael Shermer may prove me wrong.
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Old 21st November 2012, 08:46 AM   #10144
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ABP- Yes, Kit moved to Tokyo, I asked Kitakaze if the Documentary was on hold indefinitely, he slammed this down on the table and said "what do you think?"


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Old 21st November 2012, 08:54 AM   #10145
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Wow, they shaved Patty! KK has been hard at work after all.
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Old 21st November 2012, 11:39 AM   #10146
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footer has idea about how to make the PGF/bigfoot real instead of a guy in a suit.
Quote:
For those that don't want to wait for Kit, Assuming it is DeAtley, just go find a cable guy named Brent D in the town DeAtley lives and investigate it for yourself. You can find the suit, or convince the owner to burn it up if that's what you want ...
That is some serious self-delusion.
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Old 21st November 2012, 12:20 PM   #10147
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I'd love to see someone do that, especially since DeAtley isn't the person with the suit.
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Old 21st November 2012, 12:34 PM   #10148
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But Odinn assures us with his customary hubris confidence that it's DeAtley! Are you suggesting that he's mistaken?
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Old 21st November 2012, 04:32 PM   #10149
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It is not Deatley but it is probably a Deatley
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Old 21st November 2012, 04:37 PM   #10150
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I think Drewbot is they only one who has produced evidence we can rely on. If we can get some in schoolgirl outfits to do a re-creation of the PGF scene it's going to be decisive.

The show Finding Bigfoot may end up doing a favor for the skeptics though in the long run. They've put forward the PGF as the best available bigfoot evidence in existence, so this is a developing opportunity for vanity we have not had before.

Look how Bob Heironimus came forward when he saw how other people were profiting from bigfoot hoaxing when he was the original actor, shafted out of any money at all.

Now you have millions being made, and possibly millions more by Johnny-Come-Lately's who are also feeding at the trough of the original film producer: Al DeAtley. But Al is not getting credit for it and his original money is long gone.

What he has to contemplate now is the private smugness over what he accomplished vs. the more public power he would exercise in taking the limelight (and money) away from this new generation of charletans by coming out with the suit.

What that points to is the producers of Finding Bigfoot having an interest in preventing that from happening: by making an offer on the suit and implementing a nondisclosure agreement with the owner.

So it is almost as interesting as Asian girls in bikinis: the value of the suit increases with the current popularity of Bigfoot, most especially this television show, and that value is a competition between debunking the profiteers vs. taking a cut of the action.
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Old 21st November 2012, 04:39 PM   #10151
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
But Odinn assures us with his customary hubris confidence that it's DeAtley! Are you suggesting that he's mistaken?
Hubris eh? That was uncalled for. I play the Devil's advocate for crappy debunking. I'm not a footer. My interest is in the film, period.

DeAtley is the only choice, IMO. If not, then who amongst the major players is an option? Bob H? Nope. Bob Gimlin? Nope. Patterson's family..unlikely. Who else? The Wallace family? Right. If it wasn't DeAtley, then this is all BS.

Bill Munns said it was the cable guy. Brent D was the cable guy. Bill Munns knows. So what cable guy is there other than Brent D? So then, he described servicing a mansion that the suit was in. Who amongst the players has a mansion? DeAtley. Kit said it was complicated. IMO, that's because Kit wasn't dealing with Al DeAtley himself. He could only have been dealing Alan DeAtely, big Al's son. This is the complication Kit talks about. Alan has a strained relationship with his father and access to the suit would be behind big Al's back. But that's just my take. No hubris involved.
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Old 21st November 2012, 05:38 PM   #10152
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If someone comes out with the suit and proves it, all kinds of hell will break loose. Kind of like the Shroud of Turin. And people will still believe.
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Old 21st November 2012, 06:42 PM   #10153
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
Hubris eh? That was uncalled for. I play the Devil's advocate for crappy debunking. I'm not a footer. My interest is in the film, period.

DeAtley is the only choice, IMO. If not, then who amongst the major players is an option? Bob H? Nope. Bob Gimlin? Nope. Patterson's family..unlikely. Who else? The Wallace family? Right. If it wasn't DeAtley, then this is all BS.

Bill Munns said it was the cable guy. Brent D was the cable guy. Bill Munns knows. So what cable guy is there other than Brent D? So then, he described servicing a mansion that the suit was in. Who amongst the players has a mansion? DeAtley. Kit said it was complicated. IMO, that's because Kit wasn't dealing with Al DeAtley himself. He could only have been dealing Alan DeAtely, big Al's son. This is the complication Kit talks about. Alan has a strained relationship with his father and access to the suit would be behind big Al's back. But that's just my take. No hubris involved.
I think your reasoning is sound. GT/CS seems to think otherwise, which is what I was responding to. I apologize for bashing you, even in jest.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 06:05 AM   #10154
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Am I the only one who remains a tad bit skeptical about KK and his "suit"? I'm not willing to blindly accept KK's word that he has found the suit.

KK's obsession with BF and the PGF, apparent by his gazillion posts, is enuff for me to question if his suit find wasn't some sort of hoax aimed at the bleevers.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 07:29 AM   #10155
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I'm guessing you're not a hoaxer by nature because such a hoax makes no sense.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:09 AM   #10156
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At this point, I suspect the KK documentary and the reveal of the suit has about as much chance of happening as a DNA paper by TheMelba has of being published.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 07:00 PM   #10157
AlaskaBushPilot
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Originally Posted by clayflingythingy View Post
Am I the only one who remains a tad bit skeptical about KK and his "suit"? I'm not willing to blindly accept KK's word that he has found the suit.

KK's obsession with BF and the PGF, apparent by his gazillion posts, is enuff for me to question if his suit find wasn't some sort of hoax aimed at the bleevers.
Who could blame you for being skeptical? You aren't alone.

Generally past behavior is an excellent prediction of future behavior. So with KK, a good question to ask is whether he's done such a thing before. From what little I have seen of him here that would be out of character. But many here have way, way more experience on two forums with him and also correspond privately so they would know him better.

I have a great deal of empathy for wanting to be the first person to break news of a find like this. I doubt I would be able to keep my mouth shut. So geez, I don't fault the guy for it.

Believing the suit is still around is a lot more reasonable than believing in an undiscovered 800 lb primate species running loose all over the country. The strongest candidate location is with Al DeAltey and the story of its discovery is pretty reasonable. It is also reasonable understanding why the cable guy would be fired for having a picture published without the permission of the owner.

In statistics we would say there is an observational equivalence between the two explanations. Consistent with both. If we don't bring priors into it. But if we're Bayesians then it matters very much what our priors are on KK. If he's been a little hoaxer himself over the years then you have to come down on the hoaxing side. If he's been forthright in all things then the posterior is on the side of a true find.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 07:21 PM   #10158
Sonny2
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Where does DeAltey live?
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Old 22nd November 2012, 07:54 PM   #10159
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Which Deatley?
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
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Old 22nd November 2012, 08:07 PM   #10160
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Sorry, the one who supposedly has the suit, Al.
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