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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 23rd January 2009, 10:53 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The only way the film near the end would be damaged by removing it from the camera would be if it weren't actually the end. These rolls of film have a length of opaque leader at each end that allow removal and installation of the roll in daylight without damage. Assuming you are at the actual beginning/end of the roll.
--------------
I think maybe some of you misunderstand.

Regarding what you all perceive as "overexposed frames" ...that isn't the case.

Viewers of this portion of the film frames are well able to decipher the anomaly and when it occurs for themselves... but some of us asked to have that moment of impact where the anomaly occurs "lightened in contrast" to "facilitate a better examination" of what may have been occurring at that exact moment....

What you all perceive as "overexposed frames" is simply an adjustment in "light contrast" to help the viewer see more clearly what was on that film strip. An old film meets up with modern technology revealing much of what really happened on that sandbar that week in Oct of 1967.

Also understand that ANYONE can make these determinations for themselves if they know what to look for... There are other moments in the Pat film where oddities like this one occur. I personally do not believe there was only one shot taken. In the right shoulder armpit for example if you want to have a look in that region. There is another anomaly that causes Patty's hair to fly dramatically forward, then of course there is the right thigh seen at clearer contrasts. There is another couple of frames where she falters, falling forward. Her struggle becomes more obvious.

It is a tedious job moving from one frame to another frame and making determinations of the changes that occur in each frame. But it can be done, new revelations are still being found...

These anomalies do not take away from the subject in the film itself; but it certainly DOES present the researcher with new questions. For example, if it was Heironimus in the suit, why would anyone unload with a rifle? What were the reasons Patty stayed out in the open when out of 4000 accounts, we know they duck for cover immediately or don't show themselves at all. Why was there a need for a packhorse on a day out shooting movies? What was in those boxes the packhorse was carrying? What was the point Titmus had for lying about tracking Patty? If he did track Patty, it was "at the time" not 9 days later as he testified. The questions are endless and I wrestle with them like anyone else.

I'll answer Drew Bot's questions in a while.....I'm at work.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 11:04 AM   #202
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Let me say this. I find it absolutely unbelievable that Bob Heironimus, any other person in a suit, or a genuine bigfoot, could shrug off multiple rifle shots and continue strolling along as casually as the figure in the purported reproductions of the PGF seems to. I don't believe there's any need to check to see if Bob Gimlin's rifle had been fired, or to check for the presence of a convenient grassy knoll (or gnoll or Noll for that matter).
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Old 23rd January 2009, 11:16 AM   #203
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I must be blind... I can`t see anything that`s being described...
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Old 23rd January 2009, 11:21 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
I must be blind... I can`t see anything that`s being described...
Oh that's standard for anything researchers "find" in the PGF. I gave up pointing out that the details simply aren't there and focus on pointing out the absurdity of the claims.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 11:41 AM   #205
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I'm gonna have to chime in here & agree with LT. Having put more than my fair share of 30-06 rounds into game, the damage would be really noticeable & I cannot see the creature shrugging off those impacts. Heck, Have you ever seen the blow through & meat damage cause by hitting a deer at 150 yards? I won't normally take a shot at under 225 yards because it ruins too much meat for my liking. To take multiple 30-06 hits AND keep moving, let alone walking...something smells funny...
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Old 23rd January 2009, 11:50 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Ravenwood View Post
I'm gonna have to chime in here & agree with LT. Having put more than my fair share of 30-06 rounds into game, the damage would be really noticeable & I cannot see the creature shrugging off those impacts. Heck, Have you ever seen the blow through & meat damage cause by hitting a deer at 150 yards? I won't normally take a shot at under 225 yards because it ruins too much meat for my liking. To take multiple 30-06 hits AND keep moving, let alone walking...something smells funny...
-----------------

How do you figure Patty "shrugged off the rounds?"
Show me where you see that.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 11:58 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Let me say this. I find it absolutely unbelievable that Bob Heironimus, any other person in a suit, or a genuine bigfoot, could shrug off multiple rifle shots and continue strolling along as casually as the figure in the purported reproductions of the PGF seems to. I don't believe there's any need to check to see if Bob Gimlin's rifle had been fired, or to check for the presence of a convenient grassy knoll (or gnoll or Noll for that matter).
------------

To "Hitch" I would say that there has been no manipulation in the film, again I tell you.....do the film work yourself, I'm not here to convince anyone, I'm just showing you what has been found on the film. Multiple people have uncovered the same image on frame and watched as the changes occur.

As far as Patty shugging off multiple shots, she most certainly did NOT shrug off the shots. You forget the split seconds in time in which this all happened, the shortness of the film frames, she does falter, trip and fall forward and then the film ends....conveniently I say because the whole matter is a mere what? 24 or 5 feet out of what was a hundred foot roll of film? You see very little of the event itself. I think I have (somewhere filed) the moment she falters and falls forward separated from the other frames...if you're interested in seeing her go down, Hitch I can produce those images. I suggest you do the film work yourself....it's all there and very clear. I can find no other explanation.

Daniel Perez got most of the event "facts" right in his pamphlet, "Bigfoot at Bluff Creek" if you care enough to do the research. It's interesting reading & only 23 pages of your time.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 12:13 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post

For example, if it was Heironimus in the suit, why would anyone unload with a rifle?
There is no reason to believe they did .

Quote:
What were the reasons Patty stayed out in the open when out of 4000 accounts, we know they duck for cover immediately or don't show themselves at all.
Because it's not a Bigfoot, but someone in a suit ?

Quote:
Why was there a need for a packhorse on a day out shooting movies?
As Bob G. explained in an interview on your web site, they started out that day in anticipation of camping overnight.

Quote:
What was in those boxes the packhorse was carrying?
Stuff for camping overnight?

Quote:
What was the point Titmus had for lying about tracking Patty? If he did track Patty, it was "at the time" not 9 days later as he testified.
We have no reason to believe that Titus was untruthful about what his interpretation of the site was. We do have reason to believe he didn't know squat about tracking.

Quote:
The questions are endless and I wrestle with them like anyone else.
Yes they are.. But most of them have mundane answers, that don't include anyone being shot in this film.

I have already pointed out, that the bulge you are saying is a bullet impact point, can be seen from the beginning and throughout the film.

P.S.
Yes changes occur from frame to frame. Those bulges, of whatever padding is underneath the fur, are moving around all over the place .
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Old 23rd January 2009, 01:49 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
I guess our saving grace, is that this is the paranormal forum...

I wonder where Bobbie received her ballistics/forensic ballistics training...
World of Warcraft.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 02:01 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
I must be blind... I can`t see anything that`s being described...
That's because you don't have your BF glasses on. If you had a pair you could see beyond the limit of resolution and all the details would be revealed. Bf glasses also allow you to understand the motivations and judge the truth of people you have never met.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 02:03 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Ravenwood View Post
I'm gonna have to chime in here & agree with LT. Having put more than my fair share of 30-06 rounds into game, the damage would be really noticeable & I cannot see the creature shrugging off those impacts. Heck, Have you ever seen the blow through & meat damage cause by hitting a deer at 150 yards? I won't normally take a shot at under 225 yards because it ruins too much meat for my liking. To take multiple 30-06 hits AND keep moving, let alone walking...something smells funny...
Esp. after two or three days.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 02:08 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
World of Warcraft.
....that's not even nice...

I posted back aways that I have no great knowledge of
firearms
- where did you get that idea? Because I said it was steel jacketed? .... I said I was checking that information. If it's wrong, I'll post it here. I'll say it again, I'm no weapons expert, never pretended to be expert at anything.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 02:39 PM   #213
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Bobbie,
You have a great web site .. There is a wealth of information there. We have been using it as a primary resource for some time.

That said - this stuff about the subject in the film being shot, with a 30.06 rifle, as we watch, is utter nonsense.

Morbid as it is, there are resources where you can actually see what such a rifle does to animal flesh.. It looks nothing like what we see in the film.

This is a no-brainer that anyone can easily research ..
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Old 23rd January 2009, 02:58 PM   #214
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you are aware that at 200 yards, a standard 30-06 round hits with around 2500 foot pounds? (not an exact number, I'll check my ballistics data when I go home) The fact that she was not knocked to the ground & left lying in a pool of blood just boggles the mind. A hit to the thigh should have spun her around & knocked her on that diaper butt of hers instead of making her falter...

edited to add: I was wrong, at the muzzle, 150gr winchester FMJ (full metal jacket) 30-06 produces 2600 some odd foot pounds of energy, at 200 yards it is only 2160 foot pounds with a velocity of 3100 feet per second. This is enough to drop an elk, let alone a humanoid...
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Last edited by Ravenwood; 23rd January 2009 at 03:06 PM. Reason: found some hard data
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Old 23rd January 2009, 03:14 PM   #215
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A Desert eagle .50 vs Patty Patterson= You got knocked the hell out, patty!

I seriously leans towards the possibility that Patterson used a hollywood big guy to try on the suit.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 03:56 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
I must be blind... I can`t see anything that`s being described...
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I didn't want to be the first one to admit to that!!! For the record I can't see it either.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 04:07 PM   #217
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It all depends on shot placement.
I have seen Bear "walk off" a bad placed shot to the thigh with a 180 grain.
We weren't even sure it had been hit. I've seen the same with Deer if the shot is just bad placement. But in most cases a hit to the thigh, especially in smaller animals is quite noticeable. Though a leg shot "to me" would be a bad placement.
And a heavy thigh shot would generally knock down a Deer, depends on the type of round being used to. I have seen light and fast bullets do little damage to internal organs and disintegrate on the hide of the animal if a tougher bullet is not used. Again I have seen animals run off after bad placed shots, or shots that had gone straight through non-vital areas including the thighs.
Nothing like tracking a wounded animal.
Now that being said, this scenario has Patty being shot numerous Times
and I don't see anything in this in this film to support this.
Other than fuzzy pixels.

Last edited by JcR; 23rd January 2009 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 04:09 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
A Desert eagle .50 vs Patty Patterson= You got knocked the hell out, patty!

I seriously leans towards the possibility that Patterson used a hollywood big guy to try on the suit.
Not even close to Gimlin's 30-06...with a factory load of .50AE (325gr) & a 6" barrel you are looking at only 1400 fps & 1,415 foot pounds at the muzzle...
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Old 23rd January 2009, 04:13 PM   #219
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Quote:
What you all perceive as "overexposed frames"
Actually only one of us thought that, and he isn't a regular on the bigfoot threads. The rest of us knew they had been brightened.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 23rd January 2009, 04:19 PM   #220
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And it ain't ' you all ' neither ... It's " Y'all "..
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Old 23rd January 2009, 04:24 PM   #221
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I do not see any evidence of Patty being shot, but I want to thank bobbie for the stabilized sections of the latter part of the PGF. They are quite interesting. I particularly like how they show the movement or lack thereof, of the cameraman.

The section where it appears the cameraman moves leftward, strangely interests me. Particularly since Roger appears to wait for Patty to emerge from behind the trees. Not quite sure why it interests me, though.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 23rd January 2009, 04:37 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
A Desert eagle .50 vs Patty Patterson= You got knocked the hell out, patty!

I seriously leans towards the possibility that Patterson used a hollywood big guy to try on the suit.
You suggesting Patty Patterson (who is a real person by the way).
Should be shot?
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Old 23rd January 2009, 05:16 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by JcR View Post
You suggesting Patty Patterson (who is a real person by the way).
Should be shot?
No, i call the subject in the film patty patterson, who shot the ambigious footage
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Old 23rd January 2009, 05:18 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Actually only one of us thought that, and he isn't a regular on the bigfoot threads. The rest of us knew they had been brightened.
Just ignore the s**t disturber behind the curtain. (referring to myself of course)

Last edited by inn; 23rd January 2009 at 05:21 PM. Reason: To clarify
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Old 23rd January 2009, 05:20 PM   #225
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So now patty is not only being pursued but she’s been shot multiple times, yet still, she continues to amble along like she’s walking in the park. Then at the end she’s hit in the lower right lung/kidney region and doesn’t go down. Take a look at what happens when animals are hit once in vital organ regions, they go down real fast.


Some of these clips are a bit scrambled. All are in 30 cal. range. Notice how the two other elk don’t flinch in the second to the last clip, pretty good indication that was a hell of a long shot.

http://manglertestsite.vndv.com/06.html

This current claim is beyond belief and could only be supported by people who have no understanding of ballistics, either in the lab or the real world.

There are hundreds of videos on line that show what a 30.06 round will do to a living subject. Start with something mild like how different velocities will effect how much meat you come home with, what happens to the projectile (or subject) when it hits bones, differences between entrance and exit wounds (again having to do with velocity).

BTW, video and images of standard sniper rifle (7.62, 7.65 etc.) results can be found quite easily, I simply don’t see the need.

UN-FRICKIN believable, this is bigfoot science at its all time best.


I'm done with this one, I have my own conspiracy theory I'm workin on.


m

Last edited by mangler; 23rd January 2009 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 05:29 PM   #226
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Do we know for sure that Patty was at 200 yards or thereabouts? Looks closer to me, but I'm a rank amateur and this sort of thing.

However, I do have enough firearms knowledge to know that nothing, but nothing, is going to take multiple 30-.06 hits from 200 yards and just walk away.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 05:54 PM   #227
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IMO the subject at the end of the film is 200-220 feet away.


m
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Old 23rd January 2009, 05:56 PM   #228
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I have no idea what the exact range claimed is, but I was using 200 yards as a reference point for the ballistic data (I zero my rifle at 225 yards)
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Old 23rd January 2009, 06:05 PM   #229
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Patty is either: A suited man, or a bigfoot. I dont accept BH's claims. I think that if it was a hoax, the man in the costume was the size of andre the giant
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Old 23rd January 2009, 07:24 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Bobbie,
You have a great web site .. There is a wealth of information there. We have been using it as a primary resource for some time.

That said - this stuff about the subject in the film being shot, with a 30.06 rifle, as we watch, is utter nonsense.

Morbid as it is, there are resources where you can actually see what such a rifle does to animal flesh.. It looks nothing like what we see in the film.

This is a no-brainer that anyone can easily research ..
-------------------------------
I appreciate your differing points of view, but I can upload frames, even stills that show the bulge is NOT present throughout the film...

For example, this page http://www.bigfootencounters.com/ima...tty_thorax.htm was upload some years ago in an effort to demonstrate where she (Patty) is devoid of hair mid-thorax due to friction between Patty's arm and the mid-section of her body where the two wear against one another causing the area to be devoid of hair. This demonstration takes place at Patty's first "look-back-over-the-shoulder" at Patterson & Gimlin in the frame 352 area of your film strip if you care to follow along on your own.

Notice there is no bulge here. In fact 352 occurs at the precise moment the thigh anomaly occurs, which "might" be a reason she looked back at them. So the bulge does not occur throughout the film as one might think; of course I understand that in the process of being right, you're going to be wrong a few times... the rights and the wrongs are necessary to sort out the facts.....

Repeating the link I provided in post # 155: I uploaded a 4th image for you. (Notice: -it's 4th image down, watch the right hand image) In this demonstration the right hand image DOES show a black area on the right side of Patty's back but it isn't in the same region of her anatomy as the above images. It's higher. Compare if you like, to image on the left. There is no delineated circular anomaly seen in the right image, Diogenes... http://www.bigfootencounters.com/images/JREFimage.htm

Anyway..fwiw, I'm pretty much done with this...it was prompted by my curious need to know if GL ever saw Heironimus without his shirt on. I mistakenly thought one of you was Greg Long. Make of it what you like
but study it for as long as others have before you make your conclusion and read Perez's summation of facts.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 07:51 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Patty is either: A suited man, or a bigfoot. I dont accept BH's claims. I think that if it was a hoax, the man in the costume was the size of andre the giant
No. Here is an effective way to show that if Patty made Patty's casts then Patty is about 6ft tall (same as BH):

Bigfoot Sasquatch Patty Patterson is about 6'2" short (The Too Big Foot Bigfoot Theory for Idiots)
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Old 23rd January 2009, 07:55 PM   #232
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Placement and Bullet construction is what counts.
A bad placed shot at any distance will cause hamburger meat.
You also have to consider some Deer can run 50 yards or more
even after a shot to the lungs with a 30.06 downloaded with a 170 grain.
Yes and "sometimes" with that good placed shot you get the drop on the spot.
Even if you use a Bigger load it does not mean an instant kill.
But This Bigfoot(Patty)doesn't appear to be affected in anyway.
I can buy a thigh shot that doesn't bring her down. Again it depends on the bullet
and how much damage it does.Penetration, expansion, or did it fly right through.
and miss bone and major muscles. Looks like it should of at least caused a buck or limp.
I've seen bullets explode when they hit the shoulder, and not penetrate vitals areas.
Just ask any good hunter who has had to track a animal after hitting the lung area.
You don't always get "that clean drop."
Some big animals have taken multiple shots to down, especially if they are just plain bad placed shots.

I would like to see where "Poor Patty" finally drops in the film.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 08:17 PM   #233
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Gimlin fired and hit Patty right. I'll say to Bobbi Short the same thing I said about MK Davis. What a crock ape ******
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Old 23rd January 2009, 08:26 PM   #234
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Here's a good video of the right slipper falling apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDkxX...eature=related
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Old 23rd January 2009, 08:39 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
Here's a good video of the right slipper falling apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDkxX...eature=related
They should have opted for some Converse Tie Dye shoes.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 11:13 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Crowlogic View Post
Gimlin fired and hit Patty right. I'll say to Bobbi Short the same thing I said about MK Davis. What a crock ape ******
It MAY NOT have been Bob Gimlin, you assume; more and more I think there may have been a third person there. Someone they felt they had to cover for.....
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Old 23rd January 2009, 11:32 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post
It MAY NOT have been Bob Gimlin, you assume; more and more I think there may have been a third person there. Someone they felt they had to cover for.....
Gunfire occuring during the PGF filming and aimed at the PFG figure by anyone already accounted for and or unaccounted for is preposterous and IMO boarders on the delusional.

Did it occur to anyone that Patterson's sudden unaccountable jerk of the camera was the result of something as innocuous as a sneeze?
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Old 24th January 2009, 12:02 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Crowlogic View Post
Gunfire occuring during the PGF filming and aimed at the PFG figure by anyone already accounted for and or unaccounted for is preposterous and IMO boarders on the delusional.

Did it occur to anyone that Patterson's sudden unaccountable jerk of the camera was the result of something as innocuous as a sneeze?
------------

Preposterous and delusional by what criteria?
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Old 24th January 2009, 03:59 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post
------------

Preposterous and delusional by what criteria?
Well, let me join in welcoming you and say that your site contains a wealth of information.

It boils down to ballistics and physiological responses. Assuming RP and BG's accounts are even partially true ( theres no proof they were armed and many of their other claims contradict) the caliber mentioned versus the mass and kinetic energy- there will be a physical reaction.

Its going to hurt, its going to cause massive damage and patty isnt going to be around much longer.

Heres more factual evidence refuting a bullet.

Contrary to "hollywood" , a bullets ENTRY site shows little to no damage whatsoever ( the pushing effect of the skin then the elastic snap back) and most times they dont bleed unless it was an angular shot or large caliber at close range.

The bulgeing doesnt happen immediately either. For what is described to be visible, the alleged "wounds" would have to be EXIT wounds ( placing the shooter in front of the film subject) ( makes me wonder if Zapruder didnt film the PGF too)

Thats without posting some pics from my training manuals when I was going thru 18D training to illustrate my point. I've seen bullets from 5.56 to .50 cal hit human and animal skin and the aftermath.

Patty wasnt shot. Theres no way possible.
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Old 24th January 2009, 07:07 AM   #240
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Here's an amazing feat...accomplished by Patty's amazing "fake" feet....

Her toes can flip (straight) up a few inches...





Yet, when her foot is in a vertical position.....those "fake" toes stay nicely curled-up close to the ball of her "fake" foot...






Just one more example of Roger's amazing talent with suit construction, I reckon.


I'm in the process of trying to replicate this with a fake foot, using wood dowels as toes. I'll post images and video of the result, as soon as I can.

It shouldn't be difficult to reproduce this effect..............right??!
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