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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 24th January 2009, 07:14 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Here's an amazing feat...accomplished by Patty's amazing "fake" feet....

Her toes can flip (straight) up a few inches...

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...Gif6Repeat.gif



Yet, when her foot is in a vertical position.....those "fake" toes stay nicely curled-up close to the ball of her "fake" foot...


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...oes/PFoot2.jpg



Just one more example of Roger's amazing talent with suit construction, I reckon.


I'm in the process of trying to replicate this with a fake foot, using wood dowels as toes. I'll post images and video of the result, as soon as I can.

It shouldn't be difficult to reproduce this effect..............right??!
Don't forget to replicate the wrist band!!!
Attached Images
File Type: gif handmove1.gif (45.5 KB, 164 views)
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Old 24th January 2009, 10:43 AM   #242
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Bobbie- are you going to answer my questions? You said you would.
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Old 24th January 2009, 11:08 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post
------------

Preposterous and delusional by what criteria?
Just about any criteria you want to bring to the table.
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Old 24th January 2009, 11:15 AM   #244
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Gimlin claims to have 180 grain load in his 30.06 that day.
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Old 24th January 2009, 02:10 PM   #245
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A nice good heavy load...if he hit her multiple times, he would have had more than film footage & prints...
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Old 24th January 2009, 02:29 PM   #246
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GT/CS wrote:
Quote:
Don't forget to replicate the wrist band!!!

Don't worry about the "wrist bands", GT!
If what I highlighted cannot be replicated with a fake foot....then Patty is a real, live Sasquatch! It's as simple as that!
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Old 24th January 2009, 02:37 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
GT/CS wrote:



Don't worry about the "wrist bands", GT!
If what I highlighted cannot be replicated with a fake foot....then Patty is a real, live Sasquatch! It's as simple as that!
What you highlighted can be replicated with a hockey stick. I don't know what that says about Patty.
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Old 24th January 2009, 02:39 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
GT/CS wrote:



Don't worry about the "wrist bands", GT!
If what I highlighted cannot be replicated with a fake foot....then Patty is a real, live Sasquatch! It's as simple as that!
This again? Why didn't you show both feet? Also, if Patty's foot really is bending like that yet the toes are as short as they are, what the heck joint in the foot bones is that and whatever would be the anatomical purpose/advantage of backwards bending feet? I know it could easily happen in a bad suit but real feet?
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Old 24th January 2009, 03:02 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
<snip>... whatever would be the anatomical purpose/advantage of backwards bending feet? <snip>
Much easier to trim toenails...
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Old 24th January 2009, 03:33 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
This again? Why didn't you show both feet?

The view of the right foot is better than the view of the left foot, as least as far as the toes, goes.


Quote:
Also, if Patty's foot really is bending like that yet the toes are as short as they are, what the heck joint in the foot bones is that and whatever would be the anatomical purpose/advantage of backwards bending feet?

Maybe it's the mid-tarsel break, in action??? Or maybe it's just the toes bending.

Again...the significant thing is that if the combination of toe movement (with the foot horizontal) and toe positioning (with the foot vertical) cannot be replicated with loosely-hinged fake toes.....then it cannot be a fake foot w/fake toes.

Like it or not.




Quote:
I know it could easily happen in a bad suit....

Sure you do, kitty.

You "know" it....you just can't show it.
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Old 24th January 2009, 03:48 PM   #251
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Once again, Sweaty seems to be under the impression that rubber doesn't bend...
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Old 24th January 2009, 04:20 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Once again, Sweaty seems to be under the impression that rubber doesn't bend...
If anything, seems to me his evidence is evidence for a suit, not against it. I know my toes don't flop about like a pair of clown shoes when I walk.
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Old 24th January 2009, 04:43 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Maybe it's the mid-tarsel break, in action??? Or maybe it's just the toes bending.
I'm not so sure it's either one of those. Here is a sequence of frames from an animated gif. We see the thing that is proposed to be splaying or upwards bending toes in #3 - but then in #4 we see that the same thing is there, but it is ghostly. IMO, the foot and toes should be already planted flat on the sand in #4, and maybe already even in #3.

If you look at #2-5 frames, you see that the toe-splaying/bending thing only shows up in two frames. I guess this might be a super rapid Bigfoot reflex like a rattlesnake strike or anglerfish gulp.

I don't really know what is going on here, but it doesn't seem right that that big thing in front is actually the toes (or entire ball) bending upwards.

If you get bored looking at the feet, you might check out the fingers to see what might be going on there. I can't see anything with the feet or fingers that would properly rule out a guy in a costume.






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Old 24th January 2009, 04:46 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
This again? Why didn't you show both feet? Also, if Patty's foot really is bending like that yet the toes are as short as they are, what the heck joint in the foot bones is that and whatever would be the anatomical purpose/advantage of backwards bending feet? I know it could easily happen in a bad suit but real feet?
Kitakaze, don't you see that such a foot would leave perfect footprints!
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Old 24th January 2009, 04:49 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm not so sure it's either one of those. Here is a sequence of frames from an animated gif. We see the thing that is proposed to be splaying or upwards bending toes in #3 - but then in #4 we see that the same thing is there, but it is ghostly. IMO, the foot and toes should be already planted flat on the sand in #4, and maybe already even in #3.

If you look at #2-5 frames, you see that the toe-splaying/bending thing only shows up in two frames. I guess this might be a super rapid Bigfoot reflex like a rattlesnake strike or anglerfish gulp.

I don't really know what is going on here, but it doesn't seem right that that big thing in front is actually the toes (or entire ball) bending upwards.

If you get bored looking at the feet, you might check out the fingers to see what might be going on there. I can't see anything with the feet or fingers that would properly rule out a guy in a costume.


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/18c138f1.jpghttp://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/71c66ab2.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/db6ab01b.jpghttp://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/ea604f3b.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/30012e9e.jpghttp://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/c388d921.jpg
Those are great shots of the diaper-butt!!!!
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Old 24th January 2009, 04:55 PM   #256
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You're gonna need a diaper when high-powered rifle rounds start plowing through your flesh.
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Old 24th January 2009, 04:58 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
You're gonna need a diaper when high-powered rifle rounds start plowing through your flesh.
Right......to absorb the blood. That's why there was none. Now I get it.

Wow, this bigfoot stuff is real easy!!!
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Old 24th January 2009, 06:51 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
Right......to absorb the blood. That's why there was none. Now I get it.

Wow, this bigfoot stuff is real easy!!!
Good ol bob.
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Old 24th January 2009, 07:29 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Bobbie- are you going to answer my questions? You said you would.
Sure, sorry about that...it got by me.

Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Bobbie Short- Thanks for you info on the bullets hitting Patty. But I have a couple questions:

1. Why didn't Patty take off running when the gunshots started popping off?

I don’t know the reason, but here is something interesting that might be applicable. Recently (Oct 2008) M.K. Davis sat down in Al Hodgson’s living room and recorded an interview with him and his wife. According to that interview, Patterson cast juvenile tracks off the sandbar at Bluff Creek. We know nothing about the tracks of a little one cast that day in Bluff Crk. In another 2008 interview with Patricia Patterson in her home, the following photograph was giving to M.K. Davis…it shows the juvenile casts. http://www.bigfootencounters.com/images/JREFimage.htm (Pictures #5 & #6 on that page, scroll down) It shows her husband posing with the Laird Meadow track; another pair that I assume is the same as the Laverty track and unknown multiple Bluff Creek tracks, some of them different from Patty’s imprints. The juvenile tracks can be seen on the ground next to Patterson. In reviewing that photograph of Roger with his California tracks, what other explanation can you have than there existed other individuals on that sandbar in Oct of 1967?? Was Patty trying to lead Patterson’s party away from others? A juvenile? I simply do not know, I cannot account for all the tracks cast on the sandbar that day, the Laird Meadow Rd tracks notwithstanding… It was cast on a different date.

2. Couldn't Patty just jump dimensions and save herself? Evidently it wasn’t an option.

3. How far do you think bobG was from Patty when he shot? Like the story we were told, the figure varies … I would have to look up that video again…I’m not sure where to look, chk Murphy’s book, he has all those dimensions published and BG’s interviews are easily Googled or are on YouTube. There are discrepancies there too.

4. IF they murdered a Bigfoot, wouldn't it have behooved Rog and BobG to put Heironymous at the scene, and tell everyone it was a hoax instead of saying it was a real animal that got away? Why not either just A. Go public with the Bigfoot body, or B. Say it was a hoax with BobH in the suit?
I have no idea what must have gone through their heads. Roger (it appears) was looking for a windfall, he thought finding & photographing a BF “in those days” would mean fortune and fame. There is no money in a hoax, although I guess plenty has been made off the MDF & the asscast….

Does that answer all your questions, Drewbot??

Somebody else made a comment a few posts back about the use of the packhorse. I tell you, it wasn’t carrying gear to make “camp” with… Patterson & Gimlin had already been in that area, they had a main camp constructed less than two miles away. Again I ask, what was the need for a pack horse with double side boxes? I’ve bothered with packhorses, they’re a nuisance if all you’re going to do is photograph something and the camera is in the saddlebags. I want to know what was in those wooden boxes.
See packhorse photo at the bottom of this page: http://www.bigfootencounters.com/images/JREFimage.htm (last photo)
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Old 24th January 2009, 08:55 PM   #260
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Quote:
Again I ask, what was the need for a pack horse with double side boxes? I’ve bothered with packhorses, they’re a nuisance if all you’re going to do is photograph something and the camera is in the saddlebags.
But that isn't all they were doing. They were making a bigfoot movie. The packhorses and their gear were props, just like you'd see in most any other film. Making movies is a nuisance, but the payoff at the end makes it all worth it.
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Old 25th January 2009, 12:39 AM   #261
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Patty's defense against a .30-06
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Old 25th January 2009, 12:50 AM   #262
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Poor Patty Nopoops. She thought she had to go but it was just a fart.
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Old 25th January 2009, 04:35 AM   #263
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Bobbie

>>>According to that interview, Patterson cast juvenile tracks off the sandbar at Bluff Creek. We know nothing about the tracks of a little one cast that day in Bluff Crk.

How do we know those were juvenile BF tracks and not from human feet?

>>>In reviewing that photograph of Roger with his California tracks, what other explanation can you have than there existed other individuals on that sandbar in Oct of 1967??

Heres one, RP was building a case for his documentary. There is no "evidence" ( by the accepted definition of the word) that anything other than a film crew was at Bluff Creek

>>>Like the story we were told, the figure varies … I would have to look up that video again…

I wouldnt invest any time with that because ( given the description of the load) a few feet wouldnt make any difference. It could have been 25 feet or 250 yards- the result would be the same.

>>> I want to know what was in those wooden boxes.

I believe we all share that sentiment but in the absence of factual information, its logical to accept ( if you believe their "storyline" that they were on a mission to search for tracks) that those boxes contained digging tools, plaster,water,mixing containers and such.
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Old 25th January 2009, 07:14 AM   #264
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Bobbie Short:
Quote:
Roger (it appears) was looking for a windfall, he thought finding & photographing a BF “in those days” would mean fortune and fame. There is no money in a hoax, although I guess plenty has been made off the MDF & the asscast….
If he thought that, why didn't he return to the site with more resources and actually look for the creature ?

A site where he could now be sure was the home of a family of Bigfoots...

( Please don't give me : ...." He asked for tracking dogs from Canada, but they wouldn't come .. " )
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Old 25th January 2009, 09:11 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE View Post
>>> I want to know what was in those wooden boxes.

I believe we all share that sentiment but in the absence of factual information, its logical to accept ( if you believe their "storyline" that they were on a mission to search for tracks) that those boxes contained digging tools, plaster,water,mixing containers and such.
...which they left behind at the camp when they finally actually found something. D'OH!
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Old 25th January 2009, 09:14 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
...which they left behind at the camp when they finally actually found something. when they finished planting the fake footprints so there would be something to find later. D'OH!
Much better LOL
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Old 25th January 2009, 09:23 AM   #267
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I was going with the "official storyline." Which in this case is the one most likely to be wrong.

There's no official account (even cherry picking Roger and Bob G's statements to get the best fit) of the time of filming, what they did afterward, how the film was transported, when and where it was developed, and delivered for the first showing, that seem even remotely possible, let alone likely.
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Old 25th January 2009, 12:41 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post
<Snip>
I don’t know the reason, but here is something interesting that might be applicable. Recently (Oct 2008) M.K. Davis sat down in Al Hodgson’s living room and recorded an interview with him and his wife. According to that interview, Patterson cast juvenile tracks off the sandbar at Bluff Creek. We know nothing about the tracks of a little one cast that day in Bluff Crk. In another 2008 interview with Patricia Patterson in her home, the following photograph was giving to M.K. Davis…it shows the juvenile casts. http://www.bigfootencounters.com/images/JREFimage.htm (Pictures #5 & #6 on that page, scroll down) It shows her husband posing with the Laird Meadow track; another pair that I assume is the same as the Laverty track and unknown multiple Bluff Creek tracks, some of them different from Patty’s imprints. The juvenile tracks can be seen on the ground next to Patterson. In reviewing that photograph of Roger with his California tracks, what other explanation can you have than there existed other individuals on that sandbar in Oct of 1967?? Was Patty trying to lead Patterson’s party away from others? A juvenile? I simply do not know, I cannot account for all the tracks cast on the sandbar that day, the Laird Meadow Rd tracks notwithstanding… It was cast on a different date.
<Snip>

Why do people automatically assume that just because someone says something that it is true? (especially someone who has a vested interest in stirring up interest)

Other than Hodgson saying the "juvenile cast" was made at Bluff Creek that day - what actual corroborating evidence do we have?
When/where was that photo taken of Patterson and the tracks?
Patterson said nothing about juvenile tracks. Gimlin said nothing. Patterson's wife said nothing.
Now, 40 years later, somebody says something and we must believe it?

As far as the photo - the small cast shown in the photo means nothing. Patterson could have made that at anytime - anywhere.

This whole thing with MK Dufus Davis sounds like another attention grabbing scheme by a person who has demonstrated a vivid imagination or severe psychological problems.

Massacre at Bluff Creek - give me break!
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Old 25th January 2009, 01:04 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Why do people automatically assume that just because someone says something that it is true? (especially someone who has a vested interest in stirring up interest)

Other than Hodgson saying the "juvenile cast" was made at Bluff Creek that day - what actual corroborating evidence do we have?
When/where was that photo taken of Patterson and the tracks?
Patterson said nothing about juvenile tracks. Gimlin said nothing. Patterson's wife said nothing.
Now, 40 years later, somebody says something and we must believe it?

As far as the photo - the small cast shown in the photo means nothing. Patterson could have made that at anytime - anywhere.

This whole thing with MK Dufus Davis sounds like another attention grabbing scheme by a person who has demonstrated a vivid imagination or severe psychological problems.

Massacre at Bluff Creek - give me break!
Agreed and let me add some more

>>>Patterson said nothing about juvenile tracks. Gimlin said nothing. Patterson's wife said nothing.

Put on your RCMP harness and look at it from the other side- it gets worse.

"IF" RP had so many varied tracks that he "believed" were really from a BF ( as an innocent person would)- he would have to realize there was at least a small community of them locally. ( that many varied tracks, if real could indicate nothing less)

OK, he was on a "mission" to find tracks and he "found" them. The next logical step would be to find the owner of the feet that made them. THAT would be the 'money" shot and he would know that science ( and everyone else) would be on his bandwagon and throwng money at the "find of the century" and not only would he make money ( and maybe a spot on Marlin Perkins Wild Kingdom) but would go down in legitimate history.

The biggest indicator of hoax ( in addition to everything else) isnt so much what RP did as what he didnt do ( that would normally be expected)

I would strongly move the PGF from the hoax column to at least the legitimately undecided column IF RP had

continued the everlasting search

produced multiple PGF's ( different but similar type creatures)

All he did from the PGF forward ( other than a token effort when needed) was go to the market. Thats what one expects of a con and not what one expects from a person who actually "found" what he dedicated so many years searching for.

After all, Robert ballard was an explorer and he didnt stop with the Titanic.
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Old 25th January 2009, 01:23 PM   #270
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After all, Robert ballard was an explorer and he didnt stop with the Titanic.
But understandable if he had, since he did actually find it, and others were subsequently able to retrieve pieces of it ..
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Old 25th January 2009, 02:51 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
<snip>
This whole thing with MK Dufus Davis sounds like another attention grabbing scheme by a person who has demonstrated a vivid imagination or severe psychological problems.

Massacre at Bluff Creek - give me break!
----------------------
You know Rockinkt, you criticize a man for his opinions and hide behind an avatar name. It’s easy to attack man ad hominem (& hide behind an avatar) than it is to look at his work and decide for yourself what the images show.

Anyman is entitled to his opinion, at least Davis is participating in research; I don’t know what qualifies you.

“Massacre at Bluff Creek”……so what?
Is that pronouncement any worse than the MDF nonsense, the asscast overkill and that ridiculous midtarsal break pronouncement. Come on….
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Old 25th January 2009, 03:05 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post
----------------------
You know Rockinkt, you criticize a man for his opinions and hide behind an avatar name. It’s easy to attack man ad hominem (& hide behind an avatar) than it is to look at his work and decide for yourself what the images show.

Anyman is entitled to his opinion, at least Davis is participating in research; I don’t know what qualifies you.

“Massacre at Bluff Creek”……so what?
Is that pronouncement any worse than the MDF nonsense, the asscast overkill and that ridiculous midtarsal break pronouncement. Come on….
>>>It’s easy to attack man ad hominem (& hide behind an avatar) than it is to look at his work and decide for yourself what the images show.

I've seen his work and not commenting on him personally but his "work" and conclusions are pretty much an insult to human intelligence.

>>>Anyman is entitled to his opinion, at least Davis is participating in research; I don’t know what qualifies you.

In all honesty, "researcher" and "research" in ( you guessed it) BIGFOOT Science has a definition all its own and NOT shared or accepted in quality,standards,methods, training, or anything else by any legitimate established science. Not speaking for Rock but what qualifies him ( as well as myself) is that we are legitimate investigators with extensive LE backgrounds. Both of us have advanced degrees and decades of doing "real" investigations in the "real" world. Its easy to spot a flawed one when you know how a real one is supposed to work.

This is not directed at you, MK or anyone specific but is true in the world of BF.

>>>Is that pronouncement any worse than the MDF nonsense, the asscast overkill and that ridiculous midtarsal break pronouncement. Come on

In the way you put that, no I agree- they are all equally unsupported by any legitimate evidence.
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Old 25th January 2009, 03:24 PM   #273
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Is that pronouncement any worse than the MDF nonsense, the asscast overkill and that ridiculous midtarsal break pronouncement. Come on….
I applaud you and find it interesting that you feel free to make such a pronouncement in a skeptical venue.

Did I miss where you made similar comments over at BFF ?

There was even one thread where Dr. Meldrum himself was participating. I suspect your ' midtarsal break ' comment, would create quite a buzz over there, even today ..
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Old 25th January 2009, 04:01 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Why do people automatically assume that just because someone says something that it is true? (especially someone who has a vested interest in stirring up interest)

Other than Hodgson saying the "juvenile cast" was made at Bluff Creek that day - what actual corroborating evidence do we have?
When/where was that photo taken of Patterson and the tracks?
Patterson said nothing about juvenile tracks. Gimlin said nothing. Patterson's wife said nothing.
Now, 40 years later, somebody says something and we must believe it?

As far as the photo - the small cast shown in the photo means nothing. Patterson could have made that at anytime - anywhere.

This whole thing with MK Dufus Davis sounds like another attention grabbing scheme by a person who has demonstrated a vivid imagination or severe psychological problems.

Massacre at Bluff Creek - give me break!
It should be the same for bob h.
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Old 25th January 2009, 04:39 PM   #275
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This one reminds me of the Wallace Alderfoot...


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Old 25th January 2009, 04:48 PM   #276
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Actually, my dog is named dufus. I'm thinking about trading names with him though, he's not nearly as foolish as I am. M.K.
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Old 25th January 2009, 04:50 PM   #277
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How could anyone believe the one on the far right, came from a real animal of any kind, except maybe a clown ..


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Old 25th January 2009, 05:05 PM   #278
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Old 25th January 2009, 05:58 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by M.K.Davis View Post
Actually, my dog is named dufus. I'm thinking about trading names with him though, he's not nearly as foolish as I am. M.K.
Glad to hear that...

Care to answer the questions in my post?

I'll add to them these two questions:

What is your training/experience in conducting investigative interviews?

What training/experience qualifies you to ascertain something is a bullet strike on film?
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Old 25th January 2009, 06:07 PM   #280
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I thought Davis was primateer on JREF. Is there a conspiracy theory involving a switch of name that we should be aware of?


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