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Tags 9/11 commission , NARA

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Old 16th January 2009, 02:59 AM   #121
MikeW
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Jeffery Philips, Indianapolis ATC, is another example of how it took a while to realise what was going on:

Quote:
Philips was at a radar position in area 7 when coworkers came back from break and informed him about the WTC. He was then told by his supervisor to begin looking for AA77. Philips then began to clear the predicted path of AA77. He thought AA77 had an electrical failure; even though this is not common in a 757, it could have happened.

When Philips heard about the Pentagon crash, he still thought AA77 was airborne but he quickly drew the parallel and thought it was a hijack situation.
So he hears about the WTC, doesn't make the connection when AA77 goes missing, and only begins to think it's hijacked after the plane has crashed.
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Old 16th January 2009, 03:05 AM   #122
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Linda Povinelli, Indianapolis Air Traffic Control Supervisor, seems to be the one who decided AA77 has most probably crashed:

Quote:
Povinelli recalls that there were 15 people scheduled for the day shift and John Thomas was her supervisor. While in the supervisor's office, Povinelli received a page form the floor that read "think we lost an aircraft." She then ran down to Area 3 and started an assessment of the situation. Povinelli called American Airlines to report the NaRDO and loss of transponder and also called the other sectors in front of AA77' s flight path.

On the scope, she saw a slight tum in the path of AA77 before it lost communication but
assumed that the tum was an ordinary correction. Her first thought was a crash, so
Povinelli called the state police for a search and rescue of the area where AA77
disappeared.

At this time, the controllers had already hit the all primary. Povinelli was not. aware that
AA77 had reappeared in' the Henderson sector of Indi's airspace.
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Old 16th January 2009, 04:20 AM   #123
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Professor Robert Jervis of Columbia University offers this take on the idea that warnings should have let people to anticipate the nature of the 9/11 attack:

Quote:
Prof. Jervis criticized the notion that 'dots were there but we did not connect them' as being totally irrelevant. He speculated that, if a different terrorist group had detonated a radiological dispersion device on September 10, there probably would be 'dots' about that incident as well. He said that the problem is that there are so many dots about so many potential threats, and that most of the dots are unreliable, false, or late. He asked rhetorically when the IC should have begun to focus on al-Qa'ida rather than other groups. He suggested that we look at whether a large percentage of information coming into CTC is misleading or otherwise very difficult to verify. More generally, he noted that the more information the IC collects, the harder it is to analyze due to the volume. He also noted that the Ie sometimes becomes so invested in certain sources that it is hard for the IC to accept that the sources are unreliable (this phenomenon occurred in World War II when German intelligence refused to believe that its agents in Britain had been compromised) .
However Jervis also says:

Quote:
According to Prof. Jervis, outgoing National Security Adviser Sandy Berger told incoming National Security Adviser Condi Rice that al Qa'ida was the number-one threat, yet she did not act on this information.

Last edited by MikeW; 16th January 2009 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 16th January 2009, 04:34 AM   #124
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Tom Kinton, Director of Aviation for Massport, on the post-9/11 bin Laden flight:

Quote:
Kinton recalled the September 19, 2001 charter flight to Logan to pick up Bin Laden family members. There was much confusion at that time with respect to air space and he wanted to make sure everyone that needed to know was involved (State Department, FBI and the State police). The FBI advised him to let the flight come. He remembered that the flight came out of Los Angeles going on to Orlando, Dallas, Boston, Gander and London, that a police officer got off in Boston, and that the FBI and Customs were there
to meet the airplane. He saw the manifest, and will provide a copy to the Commission.

Kinton stated that there were some flights he was concerned with coming out of Canada in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, but nothing related to the Bin Laden family. He felt they needed to watch the Canadian border carefully because there had been many overseas flights grounded in Canada and he wanted to make sure individuals coming into the U.S. from those flights were on the approved list to come in here.
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Old 16th January 2009, 04:38 AM   #125
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The 9/11 Commission encounter another truther, Dave Klotzman:

Quote:
On July 26, 2004, Commission staffer Graham Giusti advised Commission staffer
Marco A. Cordero that an individual identified as Dave Klotzman, telephone number
(xxx) xxx-xxxx had been contacting Commission staffer Al Felzenberg telephonically,
leaving messages which contained vicious anti Semitic epithets. Guisti asked Cordero to
contact Klotzman to ascertain whether he had any information of interest which he
wanted to pass on to the Commission.

On July 26, 2004, Cordero called Mr. Klotzman's telephone number and an
answering machine picked up. Cordero did not leave a message, deciding it would be
best to speak directly to Mr. Klotzman. Upon hanging up, Mr. Klotzman returned
Cordero's phone call. Cordero identified himself to Mr. Klotzman and told him he was
calling on behalf of the Commission and in response to his messages to Felzenberg. Mr.
Klotzman advised that he had been attempting to contact someone from team 8. Mr.
Klotzman advised that-he had begun to read the Commission's report and was
disappointed to notice that the Commission had continuedto "cover up" the real issues.
Mr. Klotzman stated that he had provided Felzenberg with information which suggested
the Pentagon was initially struck by a missile and later crashed into by the fighter jet
which shot the missile. Cordero advised Mr. Klotzman that the Commission had
previously received very similar information. Mr. Klotzman advised that he did not
believe the Commission had adequately complied with its mandate ifit refused to
consider the missile attack. Cordero advised him that the Commission had reviewed
countless-documents to complete its work and that the report reflected the Commission's
findings. Mr. Klotzman advised the book was incorrect and demanded to speak to
someone who could answer his questions, specifically someone from team 8 because he
knew issues were ignored. Cordero advised him that he would be unable to speak to
anyone from team 8 and he would also not be allowed to see the investigative reports
which were used to draft the Commission's report. Cordero asked Mr. Klotzman to use
more diplomacy and restraint when contacting Felzenberg as Felzenberg and the
Commission receive numerous phone calls from countless citizens. Mr. Klotzman
advised that he would be more diplomatic when contacting the Commission staff. Phone
call lasted approximately 26 minutes.
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Old 16th January 2009, 04:45 AM   #126
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One or two people have said there's a minor mystery in a report of a 9/11 fire at the White House, or more specifically the Old Executive Office Building. It's always made more sense that this was a mistake, though, people not recognising where the Pentagon smoke was coming from, and that's an interpretation that George Lannon of the State Department shares:

Quote:
Lannon was in Washington on 9-11 and acting in Mk's absence. He had a T.V. on and saw one of the planes hit the WTC live. He went upstairs to the moming meeting. Then, they saw smoke on a camera and thought it was coming from the OEOB (it was a camera angle picking up the Pentagon smoke). The building was ordered evacuated around 10 a.m.
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Old 16th January 2009, 04:52 AM   #127
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The investigative report on what the hijackers did in Las Vegas is interesting, even if they don't come up with any answers.
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Old 16th January 2009, 05:03 AM   #128
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Some interesting snippets from the Commission site visit to Logan:

Quote:
Kinton described that ATTA's car was found because after the attacks a citizen called to report an encounter he had with the hijackers in the airport parking garage that morning. Apparently one of the hijackers opened his car door and hit the citizen's car. The citizen then opened his car door and purposely let it hit the hijackers' car. He reported how odd it was that they just sat in the car and didn't react to his provocation. This report helped identify the car and the evidentiary material found inside. The FBI interviewed the informant...

On 9-11 there were no surveillance cameras at the checkpoint or in the terminal.
Cameras have since been deployed...

The briefers pointed out that it took exceptional weather for the hijackers to pull off what they did. They could not have executed the plot if the weather were cloudy or visibility poor.
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Old 16th January 2009, 05:09 AM   #129
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Bizarre testimony by Lee Longmire of the TSA:

Quote:
Longmire recalled that Monte Belger was Acting Administrator that morning because Administrator Garvey was away from the building. Most of Longmire's dealings with senior officials on 9/11 were with Belger and Lynne Osmus. As indicated previously,
Belger came to the Command Center between the crashes of Flights AAL #11 and VAL
#175. Ms. Garvey returned to the FAA building shortly thereafter, with Secretary
Mineta.
Garvey came to the FAA HQ with Mineta? Perhaps he said/ meant Garvey had been with Mineta, and this got misinterpreted.
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Old 16th January 2009, 05:20 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
The 9/11 Commission encounter another truther, Dave Klotzman:
Poor Mr Cordero, that phone call was 26 minutes of his life wasted that he'll never get back.
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Old 16th January 2009, 05:50 AM   #131
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Marty Miller provides lots of detail about Unocal and the Afghanistan pipeline project.
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Old 16th January 2009, 06:01 AM   #132
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Peter Mulroy gives lots of information about WTC7, including: Advantage Security provided guards for the building; windows were cracked on floor 47 after the first impact; an announcement was made not to evacuate WTC7 after the second WTC impact; some people left anyway; "all the people except himself and one other person (that he knew of) were out of the building before the first tower collapsed. He did not leave until the fire department rescued him at 12:15 that day. He was in the building for the first and second tower collapsing, could not breath or see anything. He had no flashlight, just the bullhorn."

Also:

Quote:
Peter mentioned that there were a number of security and safety issues that had been raised over the years, but were ignored by Silverstein, SSB or the Port Authority. He said that Jim Corrigon had asked the Fire Dept. to examine the 2 diesel tanks which were on the ih and 8th floors because he knew that was not approved by code. The fire department could not do anything about it because the Port Authority was immune from building code, so they were left as it. The other tanks were in the basement. He also spoke about the issue of having guards check ID' s, which Silverstein didn't want to spend the money on, but SSB insisted. He also spoke about the fact that no one checked people entering the cafeteria so anyone could get into the building that
way. He was again told to leave that issue alone.

At one point, OEM asked Peter for chairs because they were going to set up a triage center in the loading dock. This in the end was not done as the building had suffered damage.

In terms of collapsing, Peter wondered when they merged two buildings (at some point earlier), how the steel was impacted. He wasn't sure. He did mention, the building had a lot of problems with systems.
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Old 16th January 2009, 10:37 AM   #133
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Joe McCain of NEADS gives an interesting account of what NORAD knew, and when, on 9/11. If you're interested in the stand down arguments then you need to read this.
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Old 16th January 2009, 10:49 AM   #134
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Bob Marr (NEADS) discusses whether he really did see flight 93:

Quote:
Marr commented that he distinctly remembers watching the flight UAL 93 come west, and tum over Cleveland. He noted that he does not know if he transposed this with Delta 1989. Marr noted that he was watching an aircraft squawk, and this would indicate it was Delta 1989...
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Old 16th January 2009, 11:29 AM   #135
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Dr Garth Nicolson & his wife supposedly had advance knowledge of the attacks. It turns out the Commission did look into the claims, but discovered they also said other things: his wife said her real father was Lucky Luciano; there had been frequent attacks on her life, normally by poison; the real 9/11 masterminds included those who controlled the Vatican bank, and the Mafia; the NY financial district would shortly face a second, biological attack; someone connected to the Joint Chiefs of Staff said she often leaves him voice mails about Area 51 and her conversations with extraterrestials; and more.

I can't see the individual file for this, unfortunately, but it is saved in this file (87 MB, unfortunately). Page 851 in the PDF file.
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Old 16th January 2009, 12:19 PM   #136
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Good work MikeW, keep 'em coming. And any references to Barbara Olsen's phone call?
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Old 16th January 2009, 12:47 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel View Post
Good work MikeW, keep 'em coming. And any references to Barbara Olsen's phone call?
Not yet. We've had the first FBI interviews with Ted Olsen and people from his office released already, though, so I'm not sure there will be much else useful in the Commission's own files.
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Old 17th January 2009, 02:51 AM   #138
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The Commission speculate that Atta and a-Shehhi may have visited Virginia Beach to look at the possibility of hitting a naval target, like an aircraft carrier.
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Old 17th January 2009, 02:54 AM   #139
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Richard Baltimore (State Department) on the US attitude to Saudis looking for vistas:

Quote:
Baltimore concurred with our assertion that Saudi's were generally considered to be good risks for becoming intending immigrants, and for this reason were not generally interviewed. Before 9-11, Baltimore said, it "wasn't likely" that a Saudi could be a terrorist. Moreover, the visa adjudication system was not designed to catch terrorists. Rather,it was designed to catch intending immigrants.
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Old 17th January 2009, 03:08 AM   #140
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Ken Breen (US Attorney's Office) talks briefly about the 9/11 insider trading investigations, and also talks about his prosecution of Amir Elgindy, someone the truthers allege may also have had foreknowledge of the attacks.
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Old 17th January 2009, 03:14 AM   #141
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The unnamed official who issued Hani Hanjour's visa is asked about errors and omissions in his application form, whether there was pressure to issue visas, more.
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Old 17th January 2009, 03:23 AM   #142
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A former controller at Boston Centre....:

Quote:
...thought that active air scrambles occurred "5-10" times a year, but never against hijacked aircraft (other than the Lufthansa incident [discussed earlier in this document]. He did not recall any drug interdiction scrambles and thought that many scrambles involved Navy P-3 submarine hunters working at low altitude for long periods and then showing up unexpectedly at higher altitude. He did not remember scrambles against air defense targets of any sort over land.
Some other interesting observations, too.
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Old 17th January 2009, 03:37 AM   #143
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Mike Catalano, head of security for Solomon Smith Barney in WTC7 on 9/11, says: the official WTC7 evacuation order was made after the second tower was hit, before the first tower fell; he assisted in setting up the loading dock triage centre but no-one came; then:

Quote:
He was out on Vesey Street helping set this up when he was told to call Ed Campbell, the head of the building. He walked inside to call him and the
tower fell. There were 6 people at the phone center and they all lay on the floor while the building shook. It sounded like a missile or an earthquake ... twisting metal he thought. The vents on the top of the building and on the 5th floor sucked in the air and jammed the generators and caused them to burn.

He went to the 4th floor cafeteria where he knew there was an emergency door. In fact, there were two emergency exits. The one door had a broken handle so it couldn't be used. The other door, when opened was full of fire and smoke (colored). He also looked out the window to see if they could jump onto the ConEd building but there was a huge fire there. So they chose to wrap their heads in wet towels and make the escape through the smoky stairwell. The stairwell was below the generators that were burning. They went through the stairwell and made it to the street. They climbed up to Barclay Street when the second tower fell and chased them through
the streets. He said large debris, the size of buses, was following them down the street.

He said the generators automatically went on for 27 minutes when the building shakes. So once the first tower fell and the smoke cleared, the building was lit. He said there were no tunnels out of WTC7 in spite of reports. He said the city people were the first to evacuate. He said that the
repeater system worked perfectly and their radios were blaring the entire time. Unfortunately, there is no tape of those calls.

Mike said that WTC7 would have collapsed even if the other towers had not collapsed because of the fires. He said there were 50,000 gallons of diesel fuel and 20,000 gallons of coolant. This was a huge fire.
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Old 17th January 2009, 03:46 AM   #144
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The SEC's Joe Cella does a brief follow-up on insider trading, explaining why the number of puts vary depending on the report you read. Examples:

Quote:
On May 10, 2004, Cella called back with Eric Ribelin, who worked on the investigation for him. Cella confirmed that generally the OCC volume figures double the actual trading volume by counting the buy and sell sides as separate trades. There were several other anomalies in the data, explaining the discrepancies. Cella said that he spoke with John Fennel of the OCC, who confirmed Cella's reconciliation.

As to 9/6 UAL trading, the actual put volume was 1575 (1/2 the OCC figure) and not 2075 as indicated in the SEC report. Cella explained that the SEC relied on various sources of information to double check the volume data, including a Customer/Firm Market Watch Report. This report included the 1575 puts, but also included a 500 put sale that was canceled. The SEC failed to notice the cancellation and included the trade in the volume. As to 9/10, AMR trading, the SEC's 2,282 number was almost exactly half the OCC's 4,516, with the difference being the SEC's inclusion of certain LEAP options. Cella said neither these differences nor any similar differences in the volume ..
data changed the SEC's conclusion that no illicit trading occurred in advance of 9111. He faxed over some materials supporting his reconciliation.
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Old 17th January 2009, 03:51 AM   #145
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Matt Barnik, Cleveland ATC ops supervisor, provides a lot of detail about what Cleveland knew of the hijackings (plus DAL1989) and when they knew it.
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Old 17th January 2009, 03:57 AM   #146
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Mark Evans, another supervisor at Cleveland, says:

Quote:
He did not think anyone at the Center was responsible for notifying the military.
"Nothing in the requirements that he knows of to put military on alert right away," he
said. Commission staff asked if guidance would be given to the person in mil operations
position to call the military in the event of hijacking? Evans said that "Analytical
thinking is not what controllers are supposed to do. Even today, they wouldn't make that
decision. "
...
Even if he wanted to notify the military on that day, he would not have known who to
call. He reiterated that he would notify the Command Center, and focus on isolating the
plane.

He reported to have "Inquired numerous times if fighters were on the way." The response
he received is, "Higher authorities looking into it." Evans commented, "that didn't give
me a warm fuzzy at the time."
...
Since the primary target was firmly established at Cleveland Center and was heading
eastbound, Evans queried several times whether or not military assets had been scrambled. "It was clear that it was going to DC. I told CC that it was. They could not
have seen it on their TSD. CC was blind," Evans said...
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Old 17th January 2009, 04:03 AM   #147
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Kim Wernica, ops manager at Cleveland, says she never thought the screaming heard over the radio (from flight 93) was Delta 1989. But she reports this curious phone call (not sure who made it):

Quote:
At one point, Greg Dukeman received a call (he was in the position of Military
Operations in the TMU that day) and handed it off to her. Wemica remembers the call
was from a female. She told her Delta 1989 was a confirmed hijack.
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Old 17th January 2009, 04:05 AM   #148
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John Werth, the controller handling Flight 93 when it was hijacked, recalls what happened.
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Old 17th January 2009, 04:07 AM   #149
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Leo Wolbers, former ops manager at Cleveland, says "Notifications to NORAD, Pentagon, and the Command Center were sent as soon as he heard the [flight 93] screaming over the frequency". This alone would contradict the claim that the military didn't know until later, but then he says: "About the te1con; Wolbers was only certain that the Center reported the hijacking of UA 93 over it. He was not sure who was on the telcon and who notified the military."

Last edited by MikeW; 17th January 2009 at 04:09 AM.
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Old 17th January 2009, 04:13 AM   #150
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Carl Cockburn, former consular section chief in Jeddah, is asked why so many of the hijackers visa application forms were incomplete:

Quote:
We asked why so many of the hijacker visa applications were allowed to be processed even though they were so incomplete. Cockburn said that unfortunately, Saudis were "very bad at filling out forms and didn't think they needed to." It was "a constant battle to have people fill out applications completely. 1'd get a bundle of applications and circle them and give them back to our local employees and have folks come back to fill in, but usually the applicant didn't come back, and their employee would fill it back in." Often, you would get an application containing the signature of applicant, but their employee would do all the filling out, so generally the application was not even filled out in the applicant's own handwriting.
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Old 17th January 2009, 04:30 AM   #151
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Col Scott of CONR prepared a briefing for the 9/11 Commission on the timeline of events, who knew what about the hijackings and when. This was notoriously inaccurate & helps prop up truther arguments even today... So where did he get his information from? It must have been reliable, based on insider interviews and triple-checked logs, right? Well, not entirely:

Quote:
Scott noted that when he built the brief for the Commission based off his earlier material he checked to make sure that the NORAD timeline and the NEADS 84th RADES data that he originally used were still the official sources of information. He explained to Commission staff that the briefing he gave to the Commission was built directly from his original briefing presentation. Thus the material given to the Commission was consistent with his earlier briefing. The reason he checked for the NORAD official timeline was to make sure that nothing more current had been issued by NORAD to supplant the earlier timeline. He noted to Commission staff that he did pull times from online websites run by NBC, ABC and CBS in order to fill in gaps for events that NORAD did not account for. He used his own judgment for what sources of information were reputable. He further commented that he trusted NORAD to have the larger, more accurate time, but if NORAD did not have a time then he trusted the reputable source.
He's supposed to be delivering the definitive word to a national Commission regarding the most important defence event in his entire career, and in some cases he just reproduces what he finds online? I don't say this often, but what a *********** idiot.
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Old 17th January 2009, 04:34 AM   #152
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Kathy Boden of Con Ed shows that Bush isn't the only one with false memories re: the first impact:

Quote:
On September 11, 2001, Kathy Boden saw the first plane hit on a television screen and called Louis Rana who immediately set up their control center are Irving Place. They had been through the 1993 bombing and they had faced many crises so they had an emergency plan and crisis management team ready to perform. When the second plane hit, they knew it was not an accident so they mobilized for a major emergency.
From the same report:

Quote:
Con Ed reps who were in WTC 7 said that there was a fire, but they did not think the building would collapse. Since Con Ed had two substations in the WTC 7, this was an important point for the future electricity.

However, at 4:15 p.m., Con Ed employee Fred Sims had spoken to the fire department and told Con Ed headquarters that they thought WTC 7 would collapse. The fire department asked Con Ed to shut down the power to WTC 7 which they did.

Last edited by MikeW; 17th January 2009 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 17th January 2009, 04:48 AM   #153
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I just had a thought, and I'll grant this is just speculation, but bear with me.

From a variety of sources such as The Looming Tower we know that Al Qaeda's deception in preparing this attack was very sophisticated. The "muscle hijackers", for example, were trained in an enormous variety of different skills solely so that if they were caught they would not be able to reveal what the nature of the attack was, and a replacement could simply be slotted in. Apparently right up until the last moment only the pilots knew what the plan was.

Further, the nineteen were divided into to separate teams and the teams did not interact at all, thus if one team was compromised the other would be safe. According to the FBI the operatives did not leave a single piece of primary evidence referring to the plot itself - again an example of disciplined operational security.

We have sharply conflicting accounts of Hani Hanjour's piloting ability prior to 9/11 - one person testing him in an aircraft determined he was a good pilot, who landed without problem on a difficult runway, and rental was granted. Another person testing him on the same aircraft said his skill level was very poor, he had trouble landing and managing basic handling of the aircraft, and rental was denied.

What is significant is that both of these assessments occurred in about mid August 2001.

It leads me to wonder, did Hani Hanjour intentionally fluff a flight assessment to lay a false trail that he was a poor pilot in order to mislead any investigation?
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Old 17th January 2009, 04:54 AM   #154
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Ron Ruggeri of the FAA reports:

Quote:
Ruggeri called the watch desk at ZNY, and was informed from Bruce Barrett that the [first] impact was a terrorist event. Barrett checked a Situational Display per Ruggeri's request .to locate AA 11, and it showed AA 11 in Whiskey 105 but on a coast track (since the computer was searching for the target, and projecting its flight path).
So there were some people thinking "terrorist attack" immediately, even after the first impact. And just because something is on the TSD, doesn't mean it's still flying.

He adds this thought:

Quote:
Ruggeri noted that he holds the belief that the hijackers of UAL 93 overheard a FAA controller mentioning there was "something" approaching VAL 93's location "moving quickly", and that the hijackers thought this was a military response. Thus the hijackers crashed the aircraft .

Last edited by MikeW; 17th January 2009 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 17th January 2009, 05:01 AM   #155
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Useful summary of flight 11-related events taken from FAA audio tapes.

More FAA timeline snippets in this memorandum.

Last edited by MikeW; 17th January 2009 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 17th January 2009, 05:14 AM   #156
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The Dulles site visit includes lots of information on what Dulles knew of the hijackings (especially flight 77), and when.
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Old 17th January 2009, 05:22 AM   #157
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Okay, that's 3 out of the 4 big files skimmed! Just boxes 16-21 to go. I'll see if I can do those later.
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Old 17th January 2009, 10:42 AM   #158
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Final run, hopefully. And we'll kick off with this foreknowledge curiosity, ripe for truther cherry-picking, where a passenger says airport security in Paris was unusually high on 9/11, even though the attacks had yet to take place:

Quote:
She indicated that she had never seen security at the airport as
rigorous as it was on the morning of 9/11 (prior to the attacks in the United States). She said that the authorities double and triple checked passports., The atmosphere was tense and the security people appeared to be on a high level of alert.. "They obviously 'knew something was going on." (This took place prior to the attacks in the United States later that day).
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Old 17th January 2009, 10:48 AM   #159
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Scott Phillpott of the DoD provides the Commission with information about Able Danger. Too important to summarise, go read it if you're interested (two pages only).
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Old 17th January 2009, 10:57 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
Final run, hopefully. And we'll kick off with this foreknowledge curiosity, ripe for truther cherry-picking, where a passenger says airport security in Paris was unusually high on 9/11, even though the attacks had yet to take place:
And offcourse completely fail to explain what the link is between a hightened level of security on a Paris airport in the morning, with the attacks that occured in the US later that afternoon (CET).
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