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Old 14th January 2009, 08:29 PM   #1
kitakaze
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*groan* Jim Callahan: Adept Psychological Manipulator? Prove It!

While I am loathe to start another Jim Callahan thread, out of respect for daSkeptic's Subliminal Compliance thread and the discussion he intended to have there, I am removing the posts regarding challenging Jim Callahan to demonstrate his prowess at psychological manipulation here.

I have a general request that we be at our JREF best in being civil, particularly to Mr. Callahan. If you find yourself typing a post directed at Callahan that contains words such as "fool," "buffoon," etc, try to think are you getting more value out of that or is Jim.

I would like to note that I fully expect Mr. Callahan to decline, refuse, or ignore our invitation. I submit that that will speak volumes about what he leads you to think he is capable of. Also please remember that this thread has nothing to do with the MDC, Callahan's challenge to Randi, or any paranormal claims whatsoever. This is to focus on a completely non-paranormal skill that he advertises.

Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Callahan is throwing up the smoke now. He's trying to find a way to dance through this and once again he thinks he sees the JREF spotting him. He's happy that people have begun to discuss his attempts at manipulation. They help him by suggesting possibilities which Callahan goes ahead and endorses if he likes the feel of it. If he can maybe get people to think it's all part of a funky plan, maybe they will become distracted from the huckster maneuvers.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
BTW, this is the only reaction I have. What Jim is doing is retconning - retroactively claiming that he did or said certain things for certain purposes, when at the time he had no such purpose in mind. Jim says something, Alex replies, then Jim says "I totally manipulated you into saying that." It's a pretty ordinary tool, and not very clever.
Originally Posted by skeptigirl View Post
I'm out of this loop. I challenge Mr Callahan to PM me with his planned manipulation prior to implementing it. Then we can see if he indeed was successful.

Caveat: predicting a typical response will be considered a valid criticism if that's all one can say about the supposed planned manipulation. I will be neutral in reporting the PM prediction. In fact, I'll be happy to just post the PM after the fact if that is what Mr Callahan agrees to.
Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
I'm very pleased to see this post as it was this type of idea that brought me over from the other thread to post.

Let's take this suggestion a bit further. First, let's up the impartiality element. Instead of using you, let's use moderator Chillzero as the person Callahan can PM with his planned manipulation.Second, and I mean this with no offense to Alex I suggest the following people as targets:

skeptigirl

Arthwollipot

Myself

Jim may choose one or all three of us if he is half as adept as he would have you believe.

I'm am quite confident he is unable. What's more, I predict he will ignore or shirk off an invitation to display the Subliminal Compliance techniques he leads you to believe he has. This should be taken as evidence that Callahan is not any kind of adept manipulator at all and the discussion can be concluded thereby robbing him of further opportunities to push the idea.

Callahan says he likes puzzles and tries to create the impression that he is a skilled manipulator in creating realities he chooses.

Bring it on, Callahan.
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
For anyone that has noted the transparency of Jim Callahan's claims to be in control and manipulating others in some type of thought provoking performance and has been wondering what is the best solution to counter his games without feeding into them I have some good news.

Both Arthwollipot and myself have noted that Callahan uses a very silly type of retconning to re-enforce the idea that he is successfully manipulating people. He sees suggestions by various members of what he may have been doing. If he likes the feel of a certain suggestion, he will latch on to it and add some embellishment and back story to make it appear as though he was employing it all along. When people respond to this objectionably he simply says that the person is further showing his abilities.

Both myself and another member, skeptigirl, noted in the Subliminal Compliance thread that any real adeptness at psychological manipualtion could be tested and should be easy to show. We both independantly suggested that to eliminate the obvious retconning that Callahan was using, that he inform a neutral person by pm of his planned manipulation before doing so. I took the suggestion further and offered that to ensure impartiality in the observer that moderator chillzero be designated as the one to receive the pm of Callahan's planned manipulation.

In skeptigirl's line of suggestion the target would have potentially been a teenaged boy. With no offence intended to that young man, I suggested that the targets be Arthwollipot, skeptigirl, and myself; there are definitely others but we are the first three that came to mind for examples of people that were not playing into Callahan's games. I suggested that Callahan could choose one but given the kind of proficiency he indicates he has for this non-paranormal psychological technique that he advertises on his website, he should very easily be able to manipulate the three of us either separately or in a collective fashion. I also suggested that if Callahan either declined, refused, or ignored the invitiation that it would qualify as more than sufficient evidence that he is full of it in terms of his claims of being in control and that the question would reach conclusion.

I think we can put an end to this kind of silliness and do so in a manner that doesn't involve pleasing Jim with the insults and personal comments that he is baiting. Also note that Jim claims to be creating realities and in doing so creating value. Jim has no claim to or control of any value to be gained in any of the discussions or activities I refer to. These things are accomplished not because of Jim's desires but rather in spite of them. Any claim otherwise is semantic and another example of the retconning he employs.

I would ask that anyone who would like to comment on this post please quote it then respond in the Subliminal Compliance (aka psychological manipulation thread) as it is just meant as a heads up.
As an alternative to revealing the claim in advance to a neutral person, Mr. Callahan could simply write his claim in a brief sentence, then use this site: http://www.ideaspace.net/misc/hash/ to generate a hash code for it, and post the hash code here.

For example, at that site, I have entered my prediction for the results of this test, in a simple sentence in the field labeled "Enter your e-mail address here:". I then click the "MD4" button, and the following code appears in the Hashed Result field:

17107100441d367217263e17099c32d5

The prediction I made cannot be decoded from the hash result, because the hash result is not unique to any one sequence of characters. However, it would be extremely difficult or impossible to create a different prediction that would yield the same hash code. (Changing any part of the input text results in a completely different code sequence.) So, by posting it in this message, I have created a way to verify, in the future, that I made that prediction today.

Once I reveal the prediction, anyone else can put that same sentence into the hash code generator, and determine whether or not the resulting MD4 hash code is the same as the one I posted here. (I had better write down the exact sequence of characters, including case, spaces, and punctuation, because changing any character will change the hash code completely.) If the same hash code comes out, then it is extremely strong evidence that I really did make the prediction at the time of this post.

If I later refuse to reveal the exact prediction text, or if the prediction text I report does not match the hash code, then that would mean I have failed to verify my prediction, and (were I trying to convince anyone of my ability to make accurate predictions) strongly suggest that I made a wrong prediction or no prediction at all.

This method removes the trustworthiness of the neutral person from consideration in this test. Mr. Callahan need only write a brief sentence describing his plan; that is, what result he intends to achieve using psychological manipulation during a certain future time period; and then post the hash code for that sentence in this thread. At the end of the stated time period, he can then reveal the exact text of his plan, and we can observe whether those results have occurred. By checking the hash code against his posted one, we can also all verify individually, each to his or her own satisfaction, that the plan he reveals at the end is the same as the one he began with.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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Old 14th January 2009, 08:32 PM   #2
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I'm quivering with antici...



...pation!
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Old 14th January 2009, 08:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm quivering with antici...



...pation!
Sounds like a bad case of the ague. Take two homeopathetic tablets and call me in the next century.
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Old 14th January 2009, 08:43 PM   #4
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DaSkeptic's links from the Subliminal Compliance thread:

Originally Posted by daSkeptic View Post
Sorry for the ugly links. Wanted to be sure I used no-follow.

www.jimclass.com/subliminal_compliance_technologi.html - Subliminal Compliance Technologies
www.jimclass.com/lecture.html - Lecture
www.jimclass.com/ATTbeginning.html - The Beginning

virus.lucifer.com/virus.2Q99/author.html#2471 - Several posts made by Jim to a mailing list of the Church of Virus

www.youtube.com/user/goalie309 - A comment (bottom of the page) on a YouTube profile
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Old 14th January 2009, 09:06 PM   #5
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On the subject of employing a message digest for authentication, I would suggest a couple of changes:
  1. MD4 is rather weak. I recommend the use of something stronger.
  2. To reduce the chance of errors during verification, I suggest the explanation be published in something other than plain-text. A PDF would be a sufficient, platform-agnostic choice. A digest of the file could be posted here in the forums before the test, and then the PDF posted to Callahan's website afterward.
  3. (ETA) After the test, Callahan should post the digest on his site along with the PDF. This will eliminate the possibility of the JREF post being changed to give a false negative.

Last edited by not daSkeptic; 14th January 2009 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 15th January 2009, 12:10 AM   #6
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May I also mention to Jim, if I may:

No more dodging, delaying, explaining, excusing or trolling. Yes or no, is what we're looking for, not anything else.

I'm not the only one who'll be hoping this goes ahead.

Alex.
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Old 15th January 2009, 09:20 AM   #7
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Let's face it. Jim Callahan's "psychological manipulation" AKA "subliminal compliance" is indistinguishable from "internet trolling." Not only that, but he's shown he's, on one hand not particularly good at it, but also completely capable of being a victim of it.

It's even less impressive than the "paranormal events" he creates with his none-too-impressive stage magic.
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Old 15th January 2009, 10:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Let's face it. Jim Callahan's "psychological manipulation" AKA "subliminal compliance" is indistinguishable from "internet trolling." Not only that, but he's shown he's, on one hand not particularly good at it, but also completely capable of being a victim of it.

It's even less impressive than the "paranormal events" he creates with his none-too-impressive stage magic.
He's good enough to have made himself a centre of attention on this forum for quite some time. Getting up people's noses doesn't take much talent though.
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Old 15th January 2009, 10:53 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
He's good enough to have made himself a centre of attention on this forum for quite some time. Getting up people's noses doesn't take much talent though.
I'm not sure that "posting inane messages" and "getting replies" on a forum is an example of psychic manipulation, though. Not one that can't be done by just about anybody, anyway.
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Old 15th January 2009, 11:03 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
I'm not sure that "posting inane messages" and "getting replies" on a forum is an example of psychic manipulation, though. Not one that can't be done by just about anybody, anyway.
As Hitch said, "Indistinguishable from trolling." Calling it trolling requires a whole lot less assumptions so Iím going with that.
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Old 15th January 2009, 11:12 AM   #11
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I also agree with your statement that it doesn't take much talent to get up people's noses. Seems to be in inverse proportion, in fact.
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Old 18th January 2009, 12:49 PM   #12
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Jim was last online at 7pm today and as his none participation stands out on this thread I assume he is full of hot air.
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Old 18th January 2009, 04:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
Jim was last online at 7pm today and as his none participation stands out on this thread I assume he is full of hot air.
Since you wrote that at 2:49pm today, are you claiming to be able to see the future, and thus know what he won't be doing when he logs in this evening?

Let the MDC protocol creation begin!
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Old 19th January 2009, 04:20 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by TheSkepticCanuck View Post
Since you wrote that at 2:49pm today, are you claiming to be able to see the future, and thus know what he won't be doing when he logs in this evening?

Let the MDC protocol creation begin!
Let's roll!!
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Old 19th January 2009, 06:59 AM   #15
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Sounds like everyone wants to see a MDC claim go forward... except one person.
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Old 19th January 2009, 07:03 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by TheSkepticCanuck View Post
Since you wrote that at 2:49pm today, are you claiming to be able to see the future, and thus know what he won't be doing when he logs in this evening?

Let the MDC protocol creation begin!
Time zones, man. From here he posted at 1:49pm. SInce he's in the UK, he may well have been referring to a past event (7 in his time zone would have been before his post).

Last edited by Hellbound; 19th January 2009 at 07:03 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 20th January 2009, 06:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Time zones, man. From here he posted at 1:49pm. SInce he's in the UK, he may well have been referring to a past event (7 in his time zone would have been before his post).
You're right. My bad. I forgot to take that into account. I keep forgetting that this forum software normalizes the posting times. I'll try to avoid this error in the future.
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Old 21st January 2009, 06:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by TheSkepticCanuck View Post
You're right. My bad. I forgot to take that into account. I keep forgetting that this forum software normalizes the posting times. I'll try to avoid this error in the future.
No problem. You're allowed one mistake. I'm watching you now, though...

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Old 21st January 2009, 09:40 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
He's good enough to have made himself a centre of attention on this forum for quite some time. Getting up people's noses doesn't take much talent though.
Well apparently not for everybody. Up to now I had now idea who he was. Now, in addition, I am not sure I want to find out.
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Old 30th January 2009, 12:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Well apparently not for everybody. Up to now I had now idea who he was. Now, in addition, I am not sure I want to find out.
I fear it may be to late.

You allready know what others think of what I may be just from reading this thread.

Best Wishes,

J im
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Old 30th January 2009, 01:03 PM   #21
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Old 1st February 2009, 05:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jim Callahan View Post
I fear it may be to late.

You allready know what others think of what I may be just from reading this thread.

Best Wishes,

J im
I made you say that.
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Old 1st February 2009, 09:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I made you say that.
Bit late on that clever post.

Have a good night man,

J im

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Old 1st February 2009, 09:09 PM   #24
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Ah but by posting late he made you say that too.
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Old 1st February 2009, 09:10 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Seanrmr View Post
Ah but by posting late he made you say that too.
Well played.

J im
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Old 1st February 2009, 10:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jim Callahan View Post
Well played.

J im
"Well played".

This is the EXACT response the EVPs told me you would post and at the exact time you posted it!
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Old 1st February 2009, 11:24 PM   #27
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Old 2nd February 2009, 12:24 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Pogo View Post
"Well played".

This is the EXACT response the EVPs told me you would post and at the exact time you posted it!
Anyone can manipulate Jimbo into posting what he has posted so far, but it takes real talent to manipulate you into manipulating him.


And even greater talent to manipulate the next person into claiming that they have manipulated me.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 12:31 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Anyone can manipulate Jimbo into posting what he has posted so far, but it takes real talent to manipulate you into manipulating him.


And even greater talent to manipulate the next person into claiming that they have manipulated me.
I didn't manipulate you. I manipulated your parents into meeting and having you so that one day their child would join the jref and make the post you have just made.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 05:19 AM   #30
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Question for the Moderators: If you deem it necessary to move the silliness from this thread to AAH, what exactly would be left?
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Old 2nd February 2009, 05:29 AM   #31
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Old 2nd February 2009, 06:04 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Question for the Moderators: If you deem it necessary to move the silliness from this thread to AAH, what exactly would be left?
The original poster exhibited a fundamental misunderstanding of the subject.

That being said I do think the silliness of the thread is warranted and proves other felt the same.
They recognized the first post to be what it was and is.

Best Wishes have a good week,

J im

H.o.A-X
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Old 2nd February 2009, 06:13 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jim Callahan View Post
The original poster exhibited a fundamental misunderstanding of the subject.
I think I understood fine. I'm sure Banacheck could have predicted his outcomes. Here at the JREF saying "you don't understand" doesn't really mean very much without clear explanations. You'll remember what those are... the thing you can't do very well.

Quote:
That being said I do think the silliness of the thread is warranted and proves other felt the same.
They recognized the first post to be what it was and is.
It's called troll-gagging. Did you know your avatar looks better when seen as a person doing a hand-stand?
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Last edited by kitakaze; 2nd February 2009 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 06:23 AM   #34
skeen
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Originally Posted by Jim Callahan View Post
J im

H.o.A-X
Is this supposed to be the manipulation? He keeps posting weird things like these, but I've just ignored them. If so, that's...silly. Jim is a very silly man.

I'll tell you who he reminds me of, to just some extent: me. As a child. We used to make up all kinds of things, like if we held a plastic bag and jumped off a stump, we could fly off to Santa Claus, and whatnot.

What Jim is doing is no different. I feel sorry for him, this is the standard by which he lives his life. And I do wonder about people like his wife, who must be privy to his silliness and fraudulent nature. How can you live with that? It's almost a depressing thought.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 05:18 PM   #35
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by skeen View Post
Is this supposed to be the manipulation? He keeps posting weird things like these, but I've just ignored them. If so, that's...silly. Jim is a very silly man.
I have a feeling that it's supposed to be a form of priming. But it's hard to be sure.

Jim, does "H.o.A-X" actually stand for anything?
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Old 2nd February 2009, 05:43 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I have a feeling that it's supposed to be a form of priming. But it's hard to be sure.

Jim, does "H.o.A-X" actually stand for anything?
Until he gives a definite answer, I think I'll just use the original definition.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 06:51 PM   #37
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How about manipulating "J im" into thanking you for insulting him? Does that count for anything?
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Old 2nd February 2009, 07:02 PM   #38
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Y'know, Jimbo-I don't think throwing a handful of stones into a pond gives you the right to claim that you personally designed whatever results from said action.
Just sayin'.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 10:05 PM   #39
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Until he gives a definite answer, I think I'll just use the original definition.
Yeah, but I'd actually like him to give an answer. I'm genuinely curious. I wonder whether he'll actually give an answer, or just ignore the request, or respond without any real answer.

Here's what I'd like to see from Jim:

Quote:
Yes, arthwollipot, H.o.A-X does mean something. It stands for "Heroes of Aachen-Xerutych" which was the name of the roleplaying group that I was part of in 1989, who not only stopped the Giants, but ventured into the underworld and killed Lolth in her demonweb before returning in triumph to the metropolis of Aachen-Xerutych to accolades and tickertape parades.
Or something like that anyway. Something that indicates that it does actually have a meaning. Similarly, the space between the "J" and the "im". If there is actually a story behind that, I'd like to hear it.

'Cause otherwise it's just wankery.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 10:50 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
'Cause otherwise it's just wankery.
I really don't think this would be a bad assumption, considering the majority of his posts here and elsewhere.
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