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Old 12th June 2009, 11:36 PM   #321
Damien Evans
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Unusual to find a Brown there...

Here's a picture I think sums up Australia in the Great War:

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Old 13th June 2009, 01:28 AM   #322
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My daughter was gardening today and disturbed a rough skin water tiger, she held it down with a short garden fork, called me so dispatched it with my pocket knife. They are a very toxic snake but safe when you cut the head off. Lucky she is quick.They are protected but not at our place.
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Old 14th June 2009, 07:43 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
Unusual to find a Brown there...
Yes - the report I heard said that the most common snakes to find in the Melbourne CBD are red-bellied blacks.
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Old 14th June 2009, 09:26 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yes - the report I heard said that the most common snakes to find in the Melbourne CBD are red-bellied blacks.
I'd expect a few small pythons as well, but red bellied backs will live just about anywhere there's a steady supply of frogs and mice.
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Old 15th June 2009, 12:10 AM   #325
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To cold in Melbourne for pythons, Victoria has black snakes (not real dangerous) brown,tiger, (dangerous) and a few others really hard to find. eg copper head, bandi bandi, etc Does the list know black snakes are either getting legs or once had them, throw a black snake on the coals and the heat will pop out a couple of protrusions where front legs would be. They love milk,when I was a kid I have seen Dad lure a big black out from under the house with a saucer of milk while he sat in a deck chair with the shot gun. Took about a hour then "Bang" I get the unpaid job of getting snakes out of our neighbours houses every year.
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Old 15th June 2009, 04:57 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
To cold in Melbourne for pythons, Victoria has black snakes (not real dangerous) brown,tiger, (dangerous) and a few others really hard to find. eg copper head, bandi bandi, etc Does the list know black snakes are either getting legs or once had them, throw a black snake on the coals and the heat will pop out a couple of protrusions where front legs would be. They love milk,when I was a kid I have seen Dad lure a big black out from under the house with a saucer of milk while he sat in a deck chair with the shot gun. Took about a hour then "Bang" I get the unpaid job of getting snakes out of our neighbours houses every year.
How come we keep getting them near our place then?

There's only one species, yeah, but we still get them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morelia_spilota

All snakes used to have legs (they evolved from lizards), in fact on certain species of pythons you can still see a little spur where the rear legs used to be. Dunno about things popping out though, it must be the heat causing the vestigal legs bones to explode or something like that.
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Old 15th June 2009, 05:35 AM   #327
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Didn't know Victoria had pythons, never seen any down there. Lots in Queensland,had a big one living in my shed which I would feed a fresh parrot every so often to keep her there. Great rat trap. Staple the parrot on a stick hold it near snake named "Squeeze" and the strike would be so fast that the stick would go flying across the shed and squeeze would have the parrot with out me seeing her move. Tried to feed a cold parrot one day squeeze would not touch it so warmed it in the micro-wave(wife was out) but she just nudged it, think the singed feathers put her off. They will bite if annoyed and they have a dirty mouth, old timers say the bite will fester every year at about the same time. Don't know if thats all true. Squeeze was a good 12 ft and had bad toilet habits bigger than human.
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Old 15th June 2009, 04:01 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Didn't know Victoria had pythons, never seen any down there. Lots in Queensland,had a big one living in my shed which I would feed a fresh parrot every so often to keep her there. Great rat trap. Staple the parrot on a stick hold it near snake named "Squeeze" and the strike would be so fast that the stick would go flying across the shed and squeeze would have the parrot with out me seeing her move. Tried to feed a cold parrot one day squeeze would not touch it so warmed it in the micro-wave(wife was out) but she just nudged it, think the singed feathers put her off. They will bite if annoyed and they have a dirty mouth, old timers say the bite will fester every year at about the same time. Don't know if thats all true. Squeeze was a good 12 ft and had bad toilet habits bigger than human.
Ours don't get that big!

A big carpet python here would be 9 foot, and they're damn uncommon at even that length. 6 foot is more the usual size.
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Old 16th June 2009, 07:25 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
Ours don't get that big!

A big carpet python here would be 9 foot, and they're damn uncommon at even that length. 6 foot is more the usual size.
Back in the day Sydney used to have a lot of carpet pythons. Used to be the only defense against the larger rats and such that used to live around produce markets etc

I can not recall the last time I heard of one in the city - would have to be all the way back to the 70's
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Old 16th June 2009, 07:48 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
I mention this because I often here negative comments about the French in a number of areas, but one thing you can really say about them. They dont forget when you have helped them out
odd, in my experience the reverse is true, think about this, we (English) weren't officially invited to the french d day celebrations because the french wanted to keep them a strictly franco-american celebration

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Old 16th June 2009, 07:55 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
odd, in my experience the reverse is true, think about this, we (English) weren't officially invited to the french d day celebrations because the french wanted to keep them a strictly franco-american celebration

I don't confuse the mercurial shifting of attitude by a politican, with what a group of people feel in their hearts
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Old 17th June 2009, 07:16 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
odd, in my experience the reverse is true, think about this, we (English) weren't officially invited to the french d day celebrations because the french wanted to keep them a strictly franco-american celebration

Our situation is rather different.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-22242,00.html
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Old 4th July 2009, 12:32 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Didn't know Victoria had pythons, never seen any down there. Lots in Queensland,had a big one living in my shed which I would feed a fresh parrot every so often to keep her there. Great rat trap. Staple the parrot on a stick hold it near snake named "Squeeze" and the strike would be so fast that the stick would go flying across the shed and squeeze would have the parrot with out me seeing her move. Tried to feed a cold parrot one day squeeze would not touch it so warmed it in the micro-wave(wife was out) but she just nudged it, think the singed feathers put her off. They will bite if annoyed and they have a dirty mouth, old timers say the bite will fester every year at about the same time. Don't know if thats all true. Squeeze was a good 12 ft and had bad toilet habits bigger than human.
I've been surprised by the near-total lack of snakes here. I live about 200 metres from a really serious railway line and I assumed that there would be snakes living on the mice and rats that live on the spillage from passing grain trains. That was certainly the case when I lived near the Western line in Queensland, and, as I recall, similar to the situation around the Sydney suburban network where I used to play as a kid. In Sydney, I imagine the chain was based on discarded food scraps and the like, rather than grain, but in any case, there were lots and lots of rats and snakes. Carpet pythons and brown snakes mostly. Fun to catch and release, but we had to keep them secret from our hysterical suburban mothers, who would require any and all snakes to be killed on sight. Ignorant savages.

Anyway, my theory about this place being snake heaven was all wrong, since they seem to put lids on the trains or something, and no grain gets spilled. In over 20 years, I've never seen a single rat and only one snake on the railway reserve. It was an Olive Python, which I'd never expect to see here normally, so I think it was probably an escaped pet. Apart from that there are occasional smallish brown snakes about in Summer, but very few compared to the numbers I used to see in Queensland.

As a completely amateur observer, it seems to me in a cool to cold climate like we have here, the poor Joe Blakes would be suffering at the paws of the damned foxes, which seem to be everywhere lately. Rule 22 has been applied numerous times, but it's a losing battle I fear, without some help from the Government.

Thanks for the story about microwaving the parrot for the the snake's dinner. I can always count on you for a gem! I would have loved to have seen it.

I'm not sure about infections from python bites, but it wouldn't surprise me when you consider how bad a bite from a Goanna can be. Those buggers will have your leg off if an infected bite isn't treated.

I got bitten by a few little pythons when I was a kid, but they hardly, if at all, broke the skin, and I never had any infection problems. Their teeth seem to hook backwards and they cant really get a good stab at you like a venemous snake does, but still, it hurts. I imagine a 12-footer would give you a bite to remember, with or without the infection.

Cheers Mate,

Dave
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Old 5th July 2009, 04:44 AM   #334
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Great to have you back Dave as you are the whizz on detail. Cold here tonight in QLD and all the "Joe Blakes" are sleeping. A few dingo's around hope to apply rule 308. Four rabbit traps in a circle with a half buried staked down dead something or chook will bring a fox, but stand on a sheet of plastic while setting traps and water lightly over set traps(watering can) to rid scent. Back in the good old days we had a fox problem taking lambs so traps and poison. One way to make sure of getting a fox(because they will chew paws off to excape) is to rap stricknen soaked rag around the jaws of the trap and they poison themselves trying to chew free. Sounds a bit rough but it's them or little lambs. Bit late checking traps one morning only to find a fox that had been caught by all four feet and chewing his forth foot off and excape on the stumps, what a will to live. Two foxes will work together one distracts the ewe while the other rushes in to kill the young lamb. The old pink powder sorts them out. As a kid spent a lot of Sundays in the bush with a fox whistle and 22. Gov bounty was 7 shillings and 6 pence for a fox scalp and so was the cost of a packet of bullets. Cheers
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Old 5th July 2009, 09:46 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
Our situation is rather different.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-22242,00.html

Sorry I did not see this posted back when you did - Seriously what a beautiful story - one to keep for the next time an anti france thread erupts on here
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Old 14th July 2009, 04:43 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Great to have you back Dave as you are the whizz on detail. Cold here tonight in QLD and all the "Joe Blakes" are sleeping.

There's been cold snaps everywhere lately, it seems. Alice Springs had its coldest May day ever this year, and Melbourne has been icy, off and on. I wish all these experts working on the global warming problem could figure out a way to make it just happen in Winter.

Since I posted here last time about the local lack of snakes I've been thinking about it a bit more, and it really does seem curious. I'm going to ask around a bit and see if anyone else has seen any.



Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
A few dingos; around hope to apply rule 308.

It seems you can't be too careful. Here's a report from the Brisbane Courier Mail, published just yesterday. It has a picture that should silence most of the tree-huggers who say this sort of thing doesn't happen.

Attacks raise fears of dingoes mauling children

Quote:
A Vicious attack by a pair of young dingoes on a newborn calf has raised fears that children living nearby could become the animals' next targets.

The attack happened only 200m from new homes in the suburban hamlet of Kawana Forest, near Caloundra, an area with young families.

That's not going to end well.



Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Four rabbit traps in a circle with a half buried staked down dead something or chook will bring a fox, but stand on a sheet of plastic while setting traps and water lightly over set traps(watering can) to rid scent. Back in the good old days we had a fox problem taking lambs so traps and poison. One way to make sure of getting a fox(because they will chew paws off to excape) is to rap stricknen soaked rag around the jaws of the trap and they poison themselves trying to chew free. Sounds a bit rough but it's them or little lambs. Bit late checking traps one morning only to find a fox that had been caught by all four feet and chewing his forth foot off and excape on the stumps, what a will to live.

Yeah, I've seen what you're talking about. Years ago we used to trap lots of bunnies and foxes along the fence line of the Army base at Bandiana. We'd set the traps before dawn but we couldn't clear them until after work, and quite often we'd come across bits of fox that didn't take part in the main escape. As you say, they have an enormous will to carry on at all costs, and I find it hard not to respect.

As for the current situation, I can't use traps at all here. There's pets and kids all over the place, and while I'd be prepared to accept a bit of collateral damage, you know how people are about their pets sometimes, so I have to play it safe.



Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Two foxes will work together one distracts the ewe while the other rushes in to kill the young lamb.

This is the same sort of behaviour that you see with the dog/dingo hybrids that are causing problems for farmers. It seems to be getting worse, for my money.



Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
The old pink powder sorts them out. As a kid spent a lot of Sundays in the bush with a fox whistle and 22. Gov bounty was 7 shillings and 6 pence for a fox scalp and so was the cost of a packet of bullets. Cheers

We operated on a similar economy in the early 1970s. Foxes paid for the ammo we used and all the bunnies were lovely profit at 50 cents a pair. Of course, we were only really doing it as a public service, but the pocket money was an acceptable bonus.


Cheers Mate,

Dave


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Old 18th July 2009, 04:00 AM   #337
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Well Dave seems we have bored the hell out of the rest of the thread with the rabbit, dingo and fox stories. So here is a true account of how wild and rough the mountain areas were just a few generations back. Harrietville about 1913 a old fat Chinaman died out on the high plains,word came in and two locals were sent on horses with pack horse to bring the body back. Some days later they came down the mountain into town with the body and my father was there as a kid. The body was wraped up in a blanket and the local undertaker from Bright was there to recieve the body. The undertaker said "I thought that this was a big man?" as the blanket wraped body was quite slim and light. My father heard one of the riders say "Yer he was bloated and too heavy so we gutted him". End of story.
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Old 19th July 2009, 02:06 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Well Dave seems we have bored the hell out of the rest of the thread with the rabbit, dingo and fox stories.
On the contrary, Old Bob, I've been reading along. Just don't have any similar experiences to share (or with the war stories either), so I haven't said anything. I am curious what Akhenaten finds out about snakes.
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Old 19th July 2009, 07:18 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Well Dave seems we have bored the hell out of the rest of the thread with the rabbit, dingo and fox stories. So here is a true account of how wild and rough the mountain areas were just a few generations back. Harrietville about 1913 a old fat Chinaman died out on the high plains,word came in and two locals were sent on horses with pack horse to bring the body back. Some days later they came down the mountain into town with the body and my father was there as a kid. The body was wraped up in a blanket and the local undertaker from Bright was there to recieve the body. The undertaker said "I thought that this was a big man?" as the blanket wraped body was quite slim and light. My father heard one of the riders say "Yer he was bloated and too heavy so we gutted him". End of story.

Wait 'til we start telling Bunyip and Yowie stories mate. They'll be here in droves, like flies at a barbie.

Thanks for the story. A beaut, as usual. Here's one in return, that my Dad told me about when I was a kid. I didn't believe him at first.

Australian Broadcasting Commission - Dimensions in Time (Episode 12)

Originally Posted by (from transcript)
It’s 1935, Anzac Day. A shark on display at Coogee Aquarium disgorges a human arm which sets off a series of events too improbable for crime fiction. A medical examination of the arm reveals it was cut from the missing body with a knife, and the focus of the investigation turns to murder. This incredible story takes place among the backdrop of Sydney’s criminal underworld and proves that truth really is stranger than fiction

Originally Posted by Mandy Pearson (journalist)
The discovery of the arm caused a media sensation.

A vital clue to its identity was a tattoo of two boxers shaping up to fight. After reading one report in a Sydney newspaper, Edwin Smith contacted police claiming the arm belonged to his brother who had been missing for several weeks. Because of the well-preserved state of the arm police managed to obtain some fingerprints. These provided a match confirming the arm had in fact belonged to Jim Smith, former boxer and small-time criminal. But there was another gruesome aspect to the discovery of the arm. Medical examinations revealed it had not been bitten off by the shark but had been removed from the body by a knife, and not in a surgical procedure. Now it was a murder investigation.

Take that, CBS! We had CSI: Sydney in 1935! Another first for the Great Southern Land.


Cheers, fellow investigators,

Dave


ETA: Dammit. I forgot the good part. How they got fingerprints off the spare arm.

They skinned it, and one of the coppers inserted his hand into the skin, like a glove, and made the prints. Cool, eh?
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Old 19th July 2009, 10:16 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by HawaiiBigSis View Post
On the contrary, Old Bob, I've been reading along. Just don't have any similar experiences to share (or with the war stories either), so I haven't said anything. I am curious what Akhenaten finds out about snakes.

That's very nice of you, and quite heartening. Thank you. I'll bet you DO have some stories though. Don't forget that not EVERYTHING in this thread needs to be verified, so there's a bit of "artistic" licence granted

Anyway, it's snake time! I'll start with two of our most popular garden varieties, since others have mentioned them already.


Eastern Brown Snake


© Snake Catchers Brisbane


Red-bellied Black Snake


© Wildlife Qld


Distribution Map


© Imhotep's Maps for Chaps - all your cartographic needs in one convenient location. Pharaoh shops here!


As you can see from the maps above, the range of the Red-bellied Black snake lies totally within the range of the Eastern Brown Snake. You might think that would cause some problems, given that both are known to eat other snakes.

The fact is though, that they don't usually bump into each other, and from what I've observed it's because they have slightly different preferences for habitat.

The area depicted on the right-hand map contains most of what passes in Australia for mountains, including what we call the Great Dividing Range. In most areas, however, it's not so much a mountain range as a dissected plateau. As such, it contains at least two distinct habitats; the plateau itself and the valleys and gorges of various watercourses.

Up on top of the plateau, it's hot and dry in Summer, cool and dry in Winter. Open sclerophyl forest mainly. Down in the valleys, it's generally moist for most of the year, and the temperature range is much less severe. A lot of temperate rainforest

As a side note, they've re-created this effect on a small scale in the Botanical Gardens in Canberra. Arthwollipot is probably a more recent visitor than I, and may have pics to share. (hint )

Anyway, back to the snakes.

In Summer, snakes can be found just about anywhere, but I've noticed that if you're following a creekline and you're right down near the water, you're far more likely to encounter a Black than a Brown, while up on top of the ridges and in the more open areas of the plateau, the situation is reversed. In both areas, the prey available to opportunists like snakes is fairly similar, with the notable exception of frogs, which are (perhaps obviously) more common near the water.

In Winter, Brown Snakes become fairly inactive, but you can still find Black Snakes doing their thing down in the moist, warmish leaf litter.

It seems to me that the slightly warmer temperatures and available food are things that give the Black Snake some advantages in Winter, as well as keeping them within their niche. I can't say what it is that keeps the Browns where they are, but whatever the mechanism, it seems to have been in place long enough that even the colours the two species have evolved reflect their preferred environments - brown for the open, sandy uplands and black for the dark, shadowed valleys.

Having made these observations, I have to point out that urban growth is stuffing things up as usual. I made the point that snakes are opportunists, and like others of their ilk, such as foxes, dingoes and seagulls, they have discovered that people will provide all kinds of things for them to eat. So they've moved in with us.

Here's an interesting titbit from the CSL Antivenom Handbook


Quote:
Brown snakes are common throughout mainland Australia, in essentially all habitats, including urban areas. They are not present in Tasmania or the islands off the southern coast of Australia, such as Kangaroo Island (SA). They are relatively common in some urban and metropolitan areas. Hundreds of brown snakes are removed from houses and other properties each year in some capital cities and >10% of these snakes are found inside the house!

Where I lived as a kid, south of Sydney, NSW, this item would more likely have referred to Red-bellied Black Snakes.

What I mean to say, when saying that urbanisation has stuffed things up, is not that it's harmed the snakes at all, but it's mixed up their distribution because they both seem equally happy to move in wherever we go. Yay! (?) I think something similar is going on with the Currawongs, but that's for another post.



Sciency Stuff


Eastern Brown Snake


Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Reptilia

Order: Squamata

Suborder: Serpentes

Family: Elapidae

Genus: Pseudonaja

Species: P. textilis


Fun Fact

CSL Antivenom Handbook


Quote:
The venom is multicomponent and includes powerful presynaptic neurotoxins, procoagulants and possibly both cardiotoxins and direct nephrotoxins. There is no myolytic activity. The venom of the common brown snake is the second most potent snake venom in the world.
Apparently the most potent venom comes from Taipans. Guess where they come from.


Red-Bellied Black Snake


Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Reptilia

Order: Squamata

Suborder: Serpentes

Family: Elapidae

Genus: Pseudechis

Species: P. porphyriacus


Fun Fact

Wikipedia


Quote:
Although the Red-bellied Black Snake has the most toxic venom of the genus pseudechis, bites from Red-bellied Black Snakes are rarely lethal because of immediate medical attention. Tiger Snake antivenom is used to treat bites from red-bellied black snakes. While black snake antivenom can be used, tiger snake antivenom can be used at a lower dose. The smaller dose is cheaper to produce, and is less likely to cause a reaction in the patient.

That's convenient. How lucky we are to have lots of Tiger Snakes.


Cheerssssss,

Dave
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Old 19th July 2009, 11:08 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
As a side note, they've re-created this effect on a small scale in the Botanical Gardens in Canberra. Arthwollipot is probably a more recent visitor than I, and may have pics to share. (hint )
I'll make it my next project.
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Old 20th July 2009, 01:13 AM   #342
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Australian fokelore (can't guarantee this) Snake bitten, start the Holden and hold the spark plug leads in both hands. Toxin now destroyed, back to work. Bad luck if you have a deisel. New cars don't work with the differant systems.
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Old 20th July 2009, 01:45 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Australian fokelore (can't guarantee this) Snake bitten, start the Holden and hold the spark plug leads in both hands. Toxin now destroyed, back to work. Bad luck if you have a deisel. New cars don't work with the differant systems.
More often than not encounters with snakes would be in places you would not take the Commodore so do you know if this would this still work on the Tojo?
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Old 20th July 2009, 01:48 AM   #344
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Sounds like a recipe for death by snakebite. Or electrocution.

Seriously, there's no way that holding the spark plug leads could possibly destroy a toxin in the bloodstream. Get thee to a hospital for an antivenin!
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Old 20th July 2009, 02:24 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Sounds like a recipe for death by snakebite. Or electrocution.

Seriously, there's no way that holding the spark plug leads could possibly destroy a toxin in the bloodstream. Get thee to a hospital for an antivenin!
Absolutely. After applying a pressure bandage and immobilizing the limb.
http://www.medicineau.net.au/resourc...nake_bites.pdf
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Old 20th July 2009, 02:35 AM   #346
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My recollection is that the most potent snake venom comes from the inland taipan, otherwise known as the Fierce Snake. However, despite its deadliness deaths from this snake are extremely rare, as its natural habitat is far inland away from humans. Most of the recorded bites are in snake handlers who have them in their collection. I treated one handler who had been bitten attempting to pick up the snake with a golf club.
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Old 21st July 2009, 03:02 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Australian fokelore (can't guarantee this). Snake bitten, start the Holden and hold the spark plug leads in both hands. Toxin now destroyed, back to work. Bad luck if you have a deisel. New cars don't work with the different systems.


Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Sounds like a recipe for death by snakebite. Or electrocution.

Seriously, there's no way that holding the spark plug leads could possibly destroy a toxin in the bloodstream. Get thee to a hospital for an antivenin!

I wonder what the guy who tested the first defribrillator was thinking just before he pressed the button.

Anyway, myth, folklore or whatever, some people seem to think there's something in it.


Quote:
When no medical facilities nor antivenom are accessible, first aid electric shock has been touted as an acceptable alternative. However an adequate source and method of delivering the shock still remains a challenge.

That's from a web page called Electic Shock on Venomous Bites & Stings

I have no idea whether it's gobblydegook or not, but they seem serious about it. Cleverer people than me will tell us if it's all a crock of BS, but let's not get too derailed. There's almost enough on the web about this stuff that we could start a new thread about it.


Luckily, Pharaoh does not have this problem since snakes which attempt to bite him are instantly turned into sticks. I taught that trick to Aaron, Moshe's brother, many years ago, and he became pretty good with it.

Or as Cleopatra was once heard to ask of her i-Stela dealer, "Is there an asp for that?"


I'll just get my hat and coat . . .



ETA: When I started googling for this post I searched for "venom electricity". What an excelllent name for a band, IMO.
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Old 21st July 2009, 06:58 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
I have no idea whether it's gobblydegook or not, but they seem serious about it. Cleverer people than me will tell us if it's all a crock of BS, but let's not get too derailed. There's almost enough on the web about this stuff that we could start a new thread about it.
I'm not claiming to be cleverer than you (how can I when you make the sun rise every morning?) but it's a crock of BS. There is no physical mechanism by which an electric shock can destroy a toxin in the bloodstream. The best it could possibly do is provide... well, no. There is no possible benefit to electroshock therapy for snakebite.
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Old 21st July 2009, 08:44 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm not claiming to be cleverer than you (how can I when you make the sun rise every morning?) but it's a crock of BS. There is no physical mechanism by which an electric shock can destroy a toxin in the bloodstream. The best it could possibly do is provide... well, no. There is no possible benefit to electroshock therapy for snakebite.

I'm happy to agree. So are E Ben Welch and BJ Gales from the Department of Pharmacy Practice, School of Pharmacy, Southwestern Oklahoma State University, Weatherford, USA. (welchb@swosu.edu)

They have this to say in PubMed

Quote:
During the past 2 decades, articles suggesting that stun guns be utilized to treat venomous bites and stings have appeared in both the lay and medical press. Although never widely considered to be standard therapy for venomous bites and stings, stun guns are still considered to be a treatment option by some medical practitioners and outdoor enthusiasts. A Medline search was performed using these terms: venomous bites, venomous stings, snake bites, spider bites, electrical, stun gun, high voltage electricity, low amperage electricity, direct current, and shock therapy. Articles selected included laboratory-based isolated venom studies, animal studies, and case reports involving humans in which a stun gun or some other source of high voltage, low amperage direct current electric shocks were used to treat actual or simulated venomous bites or stings. We concluded that the use of stun guns or other sources of high voltage, low amperage direct current electric shocks to treat venomous bites and stings is not supported by the literature.
My bolding.


eMedicineHealth.com has this to say.


Quote:
A number of old first aid techniques have fallen out of favor. Medical research supports the following warnings:


◦Do NOT cut and suck. Cutting into the bite site can damage underlying organs, increase the risk of infection, and does not result in venom removal.


◦Do NOT use ice. Ice does not deactivate the venom and can cause frostbite.


◦Do NOT use electric shocks. The shocks are not effective and could cause burns or electrical problems to the heart.


◦Do NOT use alcohol. Alcohol may deaden the pain, but it also makes the local blood vessels bigger, which can increase venom absorption.


◦Do NOT use tourniquets or constriction bands. These have not been proven effective, may cause increased tissue damage, and could cost the victim a limb.
My bolding.


The Lancet has a couple of articles about this too, from 1986, but they want $50 each for the PDFs and I don't think this stuff needs such an expensive debunking.


In reading a few different items online, whilst I'm no closer to discovering where this "folk cure" started, I'd have to say that it probably wasn't Australia. It seems to have gained most traction in third world countries in Africa and Asia, where the cost of antivenom is prohibitive for most victims. Just the sort of situation where you'd expect a few scammers to be doing their thing.


Old Bob was just pullin' the hiss, I reckon.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 01:57 AM   #350
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Now the current topic (little pun) on snake bite. Yes the locals back then did believe the spark plug bit. One cold winter night about 1945 big ruckus in the chook house, Dad shoots a quoll (think that's spelt right) as it was killing chooks. Have never seen one since they are very rare, perhaps someone we know will provide a picture as he is very good at that. It was spotty black and white like a big cat from memory. Also in the dead of winter in north east Victoria a beautiful multi coloured bird would come down from the mountains into the sheltered vallies and I'm sorry I can't remember the name. Does any one know?( was it rainbow bird?) 1080 poisoning by the gov in the 50 ies wiped many creatures out and caused cancer in humans as it's made from sodium fluoride. (Bastards)
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Old 22nd July 2009, 03:15 AM   #351
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Google is your friend Bob:

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiv...uolls2004.html

Not that rare, and unlike many of your posts, I actually believe the first part of this post, but not the second.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 04:23 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Google is your friend Bob:

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiv...uolls2004.html

Not that rare, and unlike many of your posts, I actually believe the first part of this post, but not the second.
Lionking it matters not to me what you believe, I try to keep my posts free of lies. But you have found a good article on quolls. And as for disputing the 1080 program I was there and wittness the bush go quiet, they killed all mannor of creatures, even birds eating toxic maggots from dead rabbits with enough 1080 to kill them. Colourless odourless and tasteless, sent and sanctioned from Canberra by brainless shiney bums.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 05:45 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Google is your friend Bob:

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiv...uolls2004.html

Not that rare, and unlike many of your posts, I actually believe the first part of this post, but not the second.
I used to see a lot of them on sealed roads at night around the Top End - probably enjoying the warmth before inevitably becoming road kill.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 06:29 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Now the current topic (little pun) on snake bite. Yes the locals back then did believe the spark plug bit. One cold winter night about 1945 big ruckus in the chook house, Dad shoots a quoll (think that's spelt right) as it was killing chooks. Have never seen one since they are very rare, perhaps someone we know will provide a picture as he is very good at that. It was spotty black and white like a big cat from memory. Also in the dead of winter in north east Victoria a beautiful multi coloured bird would come down from the mountains into the sheltered vallies and I'm sorry I can't remember the name. Does any one know?( was it rainbow bird?) 1080 poisoning by the gov in the 50 ies wiped many creatures out and caused cancer in humans as it's made from sodium fluoride. (Bastards)

These?

Rainbow Lorikeets


Photo ©Mike Owen - Birds of Australia
Map by Akhenaten



Originally Posted by Mike Owen - Birds of Australia
The Rainbow Lorikeet is widely distributed along the coastal strip from Cape York south to Victoria and into South Australia. It is often abundant from Sydney northwards, but is becoming rarer south of Sydney. An increasing population around Perth, in Western Australia, is thought to be derived from escaped aviary birds. The prefered habitat is coastal forests as well as urban gardens. Noisy flocks of up to several hundred may congregate in flowering trees to feed and roost, at times in the company of Scaly Breasted Lorikeets. Breeding in the wild is from August to January.

There are billions of these at my daughter's place in Toowoomba when the gum trees are flowering. Your description of their behaviour of moving from the mountains to the valleys according to the seasons agrees with what I've observed myself, not just with Mountain (Rainbow) Loris, but with the Currawongs as well.

I have some idea of what's causing this behaviour to change, but I think it's more to do with urbanisation than with poisoning. I'll expand on this in a later post.

That's not to say that I don't agree with you about the 1080. It did (does) a lot of damage to our wildlife. I'll address this in a later post as well.



Quolls


Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Google is your friend Bob:

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiv...uolls2004.html

Not that rare, and unlike many of your posts, I actually believe the first part of this post, but not the second.

Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Lionking it matters not to me what you believe, I try to keep my posts free of lies. But you have found a good article on quolls. And as for disputing the 1080 program I was there and wittness the bush go quiet, they killed all mannor of creatures, even birds eating toxic maggots from dead rabbits with enough 1080 to kill them. Colourless odourless and tasteless, sent and sanctioned from Canberra by brainless shiney bums.

What I really like about you two blokes is that you're usually both right, so it makes it easy for me to find the middle ground.

I'll get started on a post about Quolls right away, and we'll get to the 1080 after that.

Thanks for the link, lionking. I'm going to shamelessly use it in my own post.


Cheers,

Dave
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Old 22nd July 2009, 06:47 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
Now the current topic (little pun) on snake bite. Yes the locals back then did believe the spark plug bit.

I thought I vaguely remembered something about it myself when you first mentioned it. From what I've read, the idea seems to have spread at the same rate as cars did (starting in about the 1940s), and I think we might be able to attribute it to the willingness of people to believe all sorts of things about new technologies.

It reminds me of the way that some people today are using lasers to remove excess body hair and other people are using lasers to grow hair. One or both of those groups is going to be very disappointed.

Have you heard about the two blokes that were out back o' Bourke when one of them was bitten on the arse by a Taipan? His mate rang the Flying Doc on his mobile phone and asked what he should do. "You'll have to make an incision and suck out the poison." says the Doc.

"What'd he say?" asks the first bloke when the mate gets off the phone.

"Geez, I'm sorry mate, but yer gonna die."
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Old 22nd July 2009, 07:28 PM   #356
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If the Taipan had bit his crank it would have been no problem.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 07:52 PM   #357
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The beautifull birds that came down in the dead of winter wern't parrots, much bigger and were chasing the last quince on the old tree. Only seen them as a kid, later years no see. Bit like the "ball bearing bird" Will ask my mother she may remember. Where I am now the magpie greese are showing up, they are rarely seen this far south, rumor has it that they taste good?
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Old 22nd July 2009, 09:05 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Jeff Corey View Post
If the Taipan had bit his crank it would have been no problem.

Funny you should point that out. The joke is usually told that way but I tidied it up for JREF.

I wonder if this is the origin of the expression "Fair suck of the sav."

Anyway, your grubby little insult is duly noted. It'll be boomerangs at dawn if this keeps up.


Cheers Cobber



Originally Posted by Old Bob View Post
The beautiful birds that came down in the dead of winter wern't parrots, much bigger and were chasing the last quince on the old tree. Only seen them as a kid, later years no see. Bit like the "ball bearing bird" Will ask my mother she may remember. Where I am now the magpie greese are showing up, they are rarely seen this far south, rumor has it that they taste good?

The Rainbow Lorikeets was just a guess, and I wasn't too confident since I figured you'd have seen heaps of them. As a matter of fact, Rachel has emailed me some photos of her Grandfather's place at Hervey Bay, just up the road from you.








I have no idea what your birds might have been at this stage, but I've got lots of bird books here so I'll keep looking.

As to the Magpie Geese, your rumour is correct, but you'll need to go to the Northern Territory to try it for yourself.


learningspark.com.au

Quote:
Indigenous people hunt Magpie Geese by various means: throwing sticks, from underwater using hollow reeds as snorkels or stalking and hand-catching. They are prized food and are usually roasted; the eggs are also eaten. Although protected from non-indigenous hunters in most of Australia, the Magpie Goose is a declared game species in the Northern Territory.


Smithy's Magpie Goose Stew

Quote:
Ingredients

2 x magpie geese
Soy Sauce
Vinegar
1 Onion
2 Potatoes
2 Garlic cloves
2 knobs of Fresh Ginger

Method

Cut up as much meat as possible

Cut up geese into cubes and marinate it in soy sauce and vinegar for the minimum of two hours. (Magpie geese are tough and this helps tenderize the meat). Save the carcasses..

In camp oven throw in diced onion and potato, garlic, ginger and a cupful of water

Toss in marinated geese pieces
Cook on fire until meat and potatoes are cooked through

While stew is simmering and cooking. Place the two geese carcasses on a grill on the fire. These will cook before the stew and are a good snack when all crisp and crunchy

Serve with boiled rice
©ABC Online


Cheers,

Dave
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Old 22nd July 2009, 10:06 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Criticalist View Post
My recollection is that the most potent snake venom comes from the inland taipan, otherwise known as the Fierce Snake. However, despite its deadliness deaths from this snake are extremely rare, as its natural habitat is far inland away from humans. Most of the recorded bites are in snake handlers who have them in their collection. I treated one handler who had been bitten attempting to pick up the snake with a golf club.

Kewl. I was going to do Taipans and Tiger Snakes next.

I think I remember reading somewhere that Indian Taipans have the most potent venom, but I'll have to check. I'll bet that when I call the Snake Help Desk an Indian will answer and I'll have an irony attack.

oo-ah. I'm telling on me.


Welcome to the thread, Criticalist. It's name is Bruce and it's very friendly.


Cheers,

Dave
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Old 23rd July 2009, 02:52 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
As to the Magpie Geese, your rumour is correct, but you'll need to go to the Northern Territory to try it for yourself.
I can confirm that the old magpie goose is pretty good roasted over hot coals. They seem to contain a lot of fat which drips through the grill into the fire for ages. They are rather tough eating though so the stew might be a great option. We went out with some police trackers once and they introduced us to the delicacies of the heart and windpipe. Great times!
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