skeptisim of EVPs

mercury451

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M
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Recently I've been present when several EVPs were captured on mini tapeless recorders. I am skeptical of this evidence but havn't quite figured out how these EVP's were produced. I would like to get feedback of some plausible explanations and also what I need to look for in the future to possibly debunk these recordings.
Thanks for any feedback
 
Need info on the recording device. Manufacturer and model will help. There are some mini digital recorders that use software compensation for low digital conversion rates that will produce sounds errantly. Panasonic has several models that do this.
 
It depends on so many factors.

For starters, are these 'ghost voices' fully comprehensible words which sound as if being uttered from a human mouth? Or are they simply noises which you are able to attribute words to after close scrutiny?

I find that the general 'theory' is that spirits are capable of recording themselves directly onto the medium of the tape. Therefore, their 'voice' is not an acoustic waveform.

Following this train of thought, I find it odd that the majority of 'evidence' seems to consist of noises which reverberate within their environment, something only a waveform is capable of. Clear hoaxes.
 
thanks for the responses,

I will try to find out the model number and make of the recorder being used.

I feel like the EVP is totally understandable. Its been uploaded to youtube and you can listen to it here:

(can't post the youtube site...am told I need post 15 X before I'm able...but it you go to youtube and search for HPI, Jamestown you should find it)

the footage including the audio is raw not enhanced. I have the audio person put his mic down next to the recorder and its played back.
I've heard that one possibility for EVPs is that they are pick up of a radio transmission...but I don't think this fits as an explanation.
the man who recorded the EVP is in the dark when its supposedly recorded. I know him personally and don't believe that he has the technical ability to pre-record and EVP and play it back.

I wanted to debunk this in a few ways but am having problems. One thing is if you hear him ask "Is there anyone here" then when its played back...the inflections in his voice sound slightly different...like it may HAVE been recorded at another time. But I might be too skeptical at this point. It may just sound slightly different through the recorder.
 
Hmm, I can see what you mean about the reply. The original voice is deeper and has a different inflection. But to be honest, I don't think I could take anything like that as evidence. It's evidence that someone has put a voice on tape, that's all.
 
The Master Cat said:
Hmm, I can see what you mean about the reply. The original voice is deeper and has a different inflection. But to be honest, I don't think I could take anything like that as evidence. It's evidence that someone has put a voice on tape, that's all.
Click to expand...

That's the big problem with attempts to independently verify the nature of sounds claimed to be EVPs. How are we certain that the sound wasn't produced normally by somebody in the room?

I was present during a case where several hand-held digital recorders were active, and one person reported an EVP at a certain point during the vigil. We all reviewed our recordings and found the same voice - does this mean that it was spoken by somebody present or that the spirit implanted the EVP simultaneously in all the devices? Hard to say.

Generally, EVP is not very good for convincing skeptics of anything because the key fact that needs to be demonstrated is that it's "impossible" for a person to have produced this sound intentionally or by accident. I can't see that happening.
 
blutoski said:
Generally, EVP is not very good for convincing skeptics of anything because the key fact that needs to be demonstrated is that it's "impossible" for a person to have produced this sound intentionally or by accident. I can't see that happening.
Click to expand...

Adding: your colleague may very well be sincere and may not have done anything to produce a counterfeit EVP - he may simply be a victim of a prank, or even an innocent misunderstanding with an unknown bystander.

I'm not a professional magician, but most of my best tricks have been opportunity, and there are many that have involved strangers, for which I have never taken credit.

Just to give you one example: I had a friend with a Polaroid, and slipped an acetate with an illustration in it - the image appeared on the photo. I removed the acetate between the time they took the photo and the time it developed. Classic spirit photo.
 
mercury451 said:
I've heard that one possibility for EVPs is that they are pick up of a radio transmission...but I don't think this fits as an explanation.
the man who recorded the EVP is in the dark when its supposedly recorded. I know him personally and don't believe that he has the technical ability to pre-record and EVP and play it back.
Click to expand...

I think you've dismissed the possibility of picking up radio signals prematurely. It needn't be that the guy who did the recording did anything dishonest. I'm not sure of the reasons, but various things can receive the radio signals that are pretty ubiquitous. I once had a small amplifier that picked up radio stations quite clearly.

If what you're talking about is recording "nothing" and then playing it back with the gain as high as possible and amplified, you could be hearing weakly received radio stations (picked up by either the recorder or the amplifier), or you could just be seeing pareidolia based on the over-amplified white noise. Have you seen these YouTube videos where you listen to a song, for example, but they display words for you to read? When you're reading the words, you really seem to hear those exact words, but then you find out that's not what they were singing at all.

That's why someone earlier in the thread asked which sort of voices you're talking about--a very clear and obvious voice or something on the margin of discernibility in the white noise?
 
Over and above that, let's assume that EVP supporters have the best case possible.
1)The sounds were not recorded from the room, or faked.
2)They were not radio signals.
3) They are clear, unmistakable voices with clear messages.

Giving them every benefit of the doubt, this proves one thing, a voice appeared on the tape through unknown means. To jump from that fact to the existence of ghosts or spirits, isn't rational, there's no evidence to make that leap even if you clearly have a recording that can't be explained by conventional means.

As much evidence that there is that such recordings are "ghosts" you could equally say that they are aliens, or the voice of GOD, or that broadcasting devices from the future send signals back in time. All of these are extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence.

The best you could say of EVPs, if all were conducted with honesty and conventional explanations were all ruled out, is that voices appeared on a tape for unknown reasons.
 
mercury451 said:
(can't post the youtube site...am told I need post 15 X before I'm able...but it you go to youtube and search for HPI, Jamestown you should find it)
Click to expand...

Is it this one?



I'm less than impressed. I don't hear any voice at all. I hear a little sound of the device being turned off.

What's on this YouTube is a video recording of the live time of the recording (nothing is audible at all after the guy says "Is there anyone here?") which is then played back into the mic which is either a separate amplifier or just connected to the camera. I think it's a separate amp because everyone in the room reacts as if they hear the louder version--which probably means what we're hearing is what's picked up by a condenser mic on the camera.

Seriously--have them record nothing with that same device and turn it off. Then play it back under the same conditions. I think that little sound is what the device makes when you press "stop recording". Under ordinary circumstances, it's barely audible. You only think it's a voice if 1) you've got a really active imagination and 2) you amplify the thing a lot.

ETA: Another possibility is that as the person is turning off the recording device he moved or covered the mic. (If it's a mini device, the mic is probably a built in condenser mic, and may have put his finger or hand right over it.) It sort of sounds like that to me. At any rate, given how fast he replayed it, I think it's something caused by turning the device off.

For that matter, we don't see the recording device during the recording on the video. Was he holding it in his hand? If so, you could get quiet sounds like that just moving it around. If it's sitting on his lap, just shifting a leg might make that sound. If it's sitting on a table or something, the sound could have been made by picking it up to turn it off.
 
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Why are ghosts so much shyer now than they once were? They used to make full-blown appearances, throw things around, rattle chains, shout, write on the walls, and so on. Now they make a tiny, fleeting sound undetectable to human ears that gets picked up on sensitive recording devices.
 
thanks for all your responses. I realize completely that from your perspective, this could be easily hoaxed. an audio dub could have been edited into the video. So I'm not presenting this as "evidence". I am the person who is holding the camera. and I have the raw tapes. but I wouldn't expect anyone to take my word that this wasn't hoaxed in the edit room. I've only posted here to try to find out what may have caused this. so far I've taken this away from the thread:
1. Don't discount it being a radio transmission
2. It may be something rubbing over top of the record mic
3. Could have been a prank unknown to me

All something to keep in mind. I want to continue to be a skeptic on this stuff....and yes absolutely you can't jump from a voice to ...OMG a Ghost! And that isn't what I'm doing either.
 
blutoski said:
That's the big problem with attempts to independently verify the nature of sounds claimed to be EVPs. How are we certain that the sound wasn't produced normally by somebody in the room?

I was present during a case where several hand-held digital recorders were active, and one person reported an EVP at a certain point during the vigil. We all reviewed our recordings and found the same voice - does this mean that it was spoken by somebody present or that the spirit implanted the EVP simultaneously in all the devices? Hard to say.

Generally, EVP is not very good for convincing skeptics of anything because the key fact that needs to be demonstrated is that it's "impossible" for a person to have produced this sound intentionally or by accident. I can't see that happening.
Click to expand...

Why were the mics enabled if the entitity can record it directly?
 
mercury451 said:
thanks for all your responses. I realize completely that from your perspective, this could be easily hoaxed. an audio dub could have been edited into the video. So I'm not presenting this as "evidence". I am the person who is holding the camera. and I have the raw tapes. but I wouldn't expect anyone to take my word that this wasn't hoaxed in the edit room. I've only posted here to try to find out what may have caused this. so far I've taken this away from the thread:
1. Don't discount it being a radio transmission
2. It may be something rubbing over top of the record mic
3. Could have been a prank unknown to me

All something to keep in mind. I want to continue to be a skeptic on this stuff..
Click to expand...
I don't think it was hoaxed.

I think they're just make a lot out of a very minor little sound that coincided with the guy turning off the recorder.

..and yes absolutely you can't jump from a voice to ...OMG a Ghost! And that isn't what I'm doing either.
Click to expand...
You also can't jump from a tiny little sound to "a voice" either.
 
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Ghosts can never be proven because either:

1. They can not be caught

2. They just dont exist

I side with option 2
 
The problem is, as many have noted, is that we are good at picking up patterns, even when there isn't a pattern to be picked up. Add into that the fact that as soon as you are told that the noise was a voice saying, "I'm here," that's all you're ever going to hear again. I heard a weird whoosing noise the first time that sounded nothing like words. The second time around I'll admit that (probably because it was louder) it sounded more like words, but I still didn't actually hear anything intelligible. After the guy said, "I'm here!" I played it again and that's all that I hear now...

So what we have seems to be a group of 'ghost investigators' who are already convinced that there is a ghost present turning a strange whooshing noise into a message from beyond the beyond.
 
I think the timing is the strongest clue. After the guy says, "Is there anyone here?" there's about a 5 second pause. In the live-time and first playback, there isn't much more than that time between the two, so I think the sound coincides with turning the recorder off.

It doesn't sound even remotely like a voice. It sounds like an airy sound, like moving one's hand near the mic or even moving the recorder as he's turning it off.

If you think this sounds like a voice, put the recorder out in a windy area and record "nothing", then play it back amplified. You'll be able to hear all sorts of "voices". That's just pareidolia.
 
Hello...

You are correct about the pareidolia. The "Class A" EVP's ( yes there is a rating system )
that people claim to have are usually sent with an explanation of what is being said in them. This allows the listener to "understand" what being said on the recording.
There are even wilder stories about some of these different types of recording devices such as "there are only 30 people who can translate the voices" so it allows for an "Expert" to tell you what the spirits are saying without any way to confirm what the recording might have said.

If you look at the origins of E.V.P. you will find that the person who discovered this type of recording was recording bird song. I would like to conduct a study to see how many different types of bird can emulate the human voice. Maybe this entire E.V.P. thing is based on a recording of a bird mimicking a human voice?

The problem that you will run into when trying to discuss any of this type of "Evidence" is that the people involved call themselves researchers but because they want it to be real so badly it has become a belief system.
 
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