ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags copyright

Reply
Old 7th June 2009, 11:59 AM   #1
Ducky
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
An email to me Re: WikiSynergy

Quote:
On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Purple Scissor <email> wrote:

Hello Mr. (name),

We are producing an article on electronic voice phenomena, and would
like to ask for your help. I am the webmaster for WikiSynergy.com, a
site dedicated, among other things, to producing articles which fully
represent both sides of debates on fringe subjects. We have borrowed
some of the content of Skepticwiki, for instance your EVP article. I
have formatted the article as a criticism and response page here:

http://wikisynergy.com/~wikisyne/w/i...oice_Phenomena

I also found your quote in the Skeptic's Dictionary and I am using it.

Tom Butler, head of the AA-EVP, has agreed to respond to criticisms in
our article, and he will be posting shortly. Since we wish to present
both sides of the subject as thoroughly and with as much intellectual
force as possible, I hope you will come by and help us to make the
article the very best possible.

Also, if you know of any other skeptical expert in EVP besides
yourself, it would help greatly if you could tell us who to contact.
PuRple scissor

--
Purple Scissor for WikiSynergy.com

They've pretty much used my real name and more than fair use. I'm not sure what I will respond with.
Ducky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2009, 12:36 PM   #2
Ducky
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
So any thoughts?
Ducky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2009, 05:37 PM   #3
Audible Click
The gap in the plot
 
Audible Click's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: BFE
Posts: 3,634
Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
So any thoughts?
I guess the question is: Are you comfortable with the way your article was obtained and also are you willing to let this person post your article. As to the fair use question..I think that would irritate me enough that I'd not give that person the right to use my article.
__________________
"Thank you, darling heart.
Love you." Baba
Australasian Skeptics Forum
Audible Click is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2009, 05:54 PM   #4
kittynh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,634
I don't know. People seem to think they can just take stuff off the internet. Kitten had stuff of hers that was posted on skepchick just appear elsewhere. They gave her credit but she was really shocked by it. Never even contacted her.
kittynh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2009, 06:24 PM   #5
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
 
Hokulele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Biggest Little City in the World
Posts: 29,576
I have two questions:

1) Did you write the entire article on SkeptiWiki, or was it done by several authors?

2) This little blurb at the bottom of the page concerns me:

Originally Posted by WikiSynergy, I mean really, Synergy? Couldn't you find something a little more quantum-like?
Content is available under our copyrights policy.

I followed the link to their copyrights policy and have no clue what they are and aren't trying to protect. Does this makes sense to someone who has better grasp of copyright issues?
__________________
"Oh god...What have you done, zooterkin? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!?!" - Cleon
Hokulele is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2009, 06:38 PM   #6
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
geni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 28,185
Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
I followed the link to their copyrights policy and have no clue what they are and aren't trying to protect. Does this makes sense to someone who has better grasp of copyright issues?
They are trying for a GFDL CC-BY-SA-NC mix which is interesting.

GFDL will mean they want to copy stuff from wikipedia and means that most of their material is avialible under the same terms as wikipedia.

Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike is where they import stuff under that license and basicaly means the material can be used for anything except comercial use as long as you credit the author.
geni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2009, 06:47 PM   #7
Axiom_Blade
Master Poster
 
Axiom_Blade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,979
Interesting!
I looked around SkepticWiki, and couldn't find any copyright notices. I think printed works are automatically copyrighted, even if you don't provide a notice, and that extends to webpages. (I Am Not A Lawyer, etc.)

Wikipedia uses the GNU FDL, which pretty much allows you to copy anything, anywhere. I wonder if some people, used to the permissive nature of WP licenses, just assume that if it's on a wiki, it's free to use as they like.
Caveat scriptor!
Axiom_Blade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th June 2009, 08:30 PM   #8
Uncayimmy
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,345
Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
Interesting!
I looked around SkepticWiki, and couldn't find any copyright notices. I think printed works are automatically copyrighted, even if you don't provide a notice, and that extends to webpages. (I Am Not A Lawyer, etc.)
Under the law in the USA, everything you write the moment you write it is protected by copyright. There's no publishing requirement. There's no requirement about posting a copyright notice. Unlike a trademark, you don't need to defend your copyright to maintain it. In fact, you need to take active steps to reqlinquish your rights. The only exception is "work-for-hire" which has to do with being hired to write, and that's just a matter of who owns the copyright - you or the entity writing the check.
Uncayimmy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2009, 04:33 AM   #9
Cuddles
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,539
Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
They've pretty much used my real name and more than fair use. I'm not sure what I will respond with.
Well, the copyright notice at Skepdic is pretty clear. I'd tell them to take it off their site unless they want a lawsuit. Personally I wouldn't recommend actually starting a lawsuit over something so minor, but they need to have it made clear that they can't just steal someone else's work.

I think it's especially cheeky of them to email you saying they are asking for your help, when what they're actually doing is informing you that they've already taken your work.
Cuddles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2009, 01:08 PM   #10
Ducky
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
So, anyone on the forum a lawyer in the US? I could use a consult.
Ducky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2009, 01:49 PM   #11
Axiom_Blade
Master Poster
 
Axiom_Blade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,979
Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
So, anyone on the forum a lawyer in the US? I could use a consult.
Sorry, I'm having a little trouble understanding your position. You're not making any money off of the article, they're not making any money off of it. Why don't you just ask them to take it down, before you start making legal threats? It's probably a simple misunderstanding. I really doubt they would've e-mailed you if they knew what they were doing was illegal.
Axiom_Blade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2009, 01:52 PM   #12
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
 
Hokulele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Biggest Little City in the World
Posts: 29,576
Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
So, anyone on the forum a lawyer in the US? I could use a consult.

Send a PM to RSL and/or his better half. Loss Leader did some work for him regarding the cease and desist from Hay House, way back when, so they should have his IRL contact info. LL hasn't posted in a while, so I doubt that PMing him would work.
__________________
"Oh god...What have you done, zooterkin? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!?!" - Cleon
Hokulele is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2009, 02:02 PM   #13
Cavemonster
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,395
The "response" doesn't seem to have anything to do with the "according to skipticwiki" part.

Ducky, if you're not pleased to have your content there (and I wouldn't be if it were mine) I would send them a polite message letting them know that their reposting exceeds fair use, they should have asked beforehand, and they should take it down as soon as possible. Let them know that it is perfectly legal for them to link to your page where users can read your writing in context, but that reproducing large blocks of content out of context and without permission is a breach of copyright and a bit rude.
__________________
The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon.
-G.K. CHESTERTON
Cavemonster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2009, 10:17 PM   #14
Ducky
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
Sorry, I'm having a little trouble understanding your position. You're not making any money off of the article, they're not making any money off of it. Why don't you just ask them to take it down, before you start making legal threats? It's probably a simple misunderstanding. I really doubt they would've e-mailed you if they knew what they were doing was illegal.
The observation of a lack of copyright notice is what drives this. I don't give a crap what some odd nutjob posing as a "fair and balanced" website does, but I do need to find a way to craft a copyright notice that would actually hold weight.

I'm not even sure I care what this person does. I'm not to the point of addressing them, I'm still considering what needs to be in place to protect the wiki.
Ducky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2009, 02:44 AM   #15
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
geni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 28,185
Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
The observation of a lack of copyright notice is what drives this. I don't give a crap what some odd nutjob posing as a "fair and balanced" website does, but I do need to find a way to craft a copyright notice that would actually hold weight.

I'm not even sure I care what this person does. I'm not to the point of addressing them, I'm still considering what needs to be in place to protect the wiki.
Under US law copyright notices hold exactly as much weight as you are prepared to put behind them. If you really wanted to put some weight behind it you would have to register your copyright. The cheapest way to do this is at the end of the year you create the stuff burn everything you want to protect onto a single CD and send it to the copyright office with your 50$ fee. That will allow you to apply for statutory damages in a court case.

In practice if you want the stuff taken down just ask them and if that doesn't work send a DMCA notice.
geni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2009, 04:22 AM   #16
Salerio
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 288
Send them an invoice for your work. Make it reasonable say $100/hour and demand they also pay you 10c for every time it was viewed.

Then issue a DMCA takedown notice to the hosting company or ISP. I'd be livid if someone stole my work.
Salerio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th June 2009, 02:08 PM   #17
Axiom_Blade
Master Poster
 
Axiom_Blade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,979
Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
The observation of a lack of copyright notice is what drives this. I don't give a crap what some odd nutjob posing as a "fair and balanced" website does, but I do need to find a way to craft a copyright notice that would actually hold weight.

I'm not even sure I care what this person does. I'm not to the point of addressing them, I'm still considering what needs to be in place to protect the wiki.
I think most wikis use GNU FDL, or some kind of Creative Commons license.

I'm assuming that you're the webmaster for SkepticWiki, correct?
If you use standard copyright, doesn't that mean that any content I add to your wiki automatically becomes your property? What's my motivation to contribute, then?
Axiom_Blade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th June 2009, 06:02 AM   #18
Ducky
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
I think most wikis use GNU FDL, or some kind of Creative Commons license.

I'm assuming that you're the webmaster for SkepticWiki, correct?
If you use standard copyright, doesn't that mean that any content I add to your wiki automatically becomes your property? What's my motivation to contribute, then?
Which is the reason I'd prefer to have a copyright in place that isn't all-or-nothing, and hence my need for a lawyer to help me word it. While I'd like to keep other sites from doing what these guys did, I don't want to own your work.
Ducky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th June 2009, 09:56 AM   #19
Axiom_Blade
Master Poster
 
Axiom_Blade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,979
Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
Which is the reason I'd prefer to have a copyright in place that isn't all-or-nothing, and hence my need for a lawyer to help me word it. While I'd like to keep other sites from doing what these guys did, I don't want to own your work.
Please check out the link to the CC licenses in my post.
Unfortunately, they all allow redistribution, so you couldn't stop websites from copying your wiki. However, if you used CC-Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives, that would deter other wikis from copying (because wikis create derivatives, almost by definition).

Copyright is already complicated enough, but when you add in the multiple authorships of a wiki...OY VEY. I suggest picking one of the CC licenses and saving yourself the grief.
Axiom_Blade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:28 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.