Set up a proxy for Iran citizens!

ravdin · 15th June 2009, 08:08 PM

If you have geek skills, an extra machine, and an interest in undermining fascist censorship, please help! Here's how you can set up an anonymous proxy server to help Iranians bypass the Internet barriers:

Windows
Linux
Mac OS X

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

If you have geek skills, an extra machine, and an interest in undermining fascist censorship, please help! Here's how you can set up an anonymous proxy server to help Iranians bypass the Internet barriers:

Windows
Linux
Mac OS X

Um, no one in Iran has heard of Tor?

MattusMaximus · 15th June 2009, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

If you have geek skills, an extra machine, and an interest in undermining fascist censorship, please help! Here's how you can set up an anonymous proxy server to help Iranians bypass the Internet barriers:

Windows
Linux
Mac OS X

Thanks, I'll pass it along. I know someone who can probably use this

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 10:40 PM

Ok some security concerns here, now that I have read this...

I see where they set trusted IPs incoming as what is presumably Iranian IPs, however I don't see where this proxy is anonymizing. IE: This doesn't seem to be distributed, you're providing direct 1:1 proxy for someone, and don't have much control over what they do.

This concerns me greatly. The point of Tor is that no one can be tracked back through the proxy, and the list of nodes is massive. This seems to me, on quick review, a process by which anyone tracking activity would see my IP and only if they followed up would notice a squid proxy running. This has legal implications for those in the US. Be forewarned of that. While I support the circumventing of oppressive censorship, I'm not sure I want to assume a legal liability to running an open proxy on this basis.

Why, exactly, has Tor not been suggested? This is already in place, already gets the Chinese folks around the great firewall of China, and is very effective. On top of that, I don't have to assume liability for use of tor nodes, since I don't know where the traffic comes from when I run it.

ravdin · 15th June 2009, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ducky

Ok some security concerns here, now that I have read this...

I see where they set trusted IPs incoming as what is presumably Iranian IPs, however I don't see where this proxy is anonymizing. IE: This doesn't seem to be distributed, you're providing direct 1:1 proxy for someone, and don't have much control over what they do.

This concerns me greatly. The point of Tor is that no one can be tracked back through the proxy, and the list of nodes is massive. This seems to me, on quick review, a process by which anyone tracking activity would see my IP and only if they followed up would notice a squid proxy running. This has legal implications for those in the US. Be forewarned of that. While I support the circumventing of oppressive censorship, I'm not sure I want to assume a legal liability to running an open proxy on this basis.

Why, exactly, has Tor not been suggested? This is already in place, already gets the Chinese folks around the great firewall of China, and is very effective. On top of that, I don't have to assume liability for use of tor nodes, since I don't know where the traffic comes from when I run it.

Agreed, there are some security concerns. These people are risking their lives, so I'm prepared to risk a little legal liability. If you would rather not, then don't.

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

Agreed, there are some security concerns. These people are risking their lives, so I'm prepared to risk a little legal liability. If you would rather not, then don't.

You obviously miss my point. If you want to trust that an entire country now getting full internet access won't find CP somewhere on the net and it be tracked to your proxy, fine. Tor is an answer to do exactly what they want to do, it's in place, it works, and it protects those that run tor nodes by having the ability to deny knowledge as to where traffic comes from and what it is (the proxy can't tell much.)

As I said, I am all for helping circumvent oppressive censorship, but there is a smarter way to do this.

ETA: If I were an iranian government official and I wanted this to stop, all I would have to do is use the system to go get illegal content for those running the proxy and cause legal problems for these proxy owners. Tor stops that by only making the end point (which can be any point in the network) the only part that can be compromised, leaving thousands of other endpoints to use.

Ps: the cheap attempt at a guilt trip is obnoxious.

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 11:00 PM

Is there a link to the organizers of this, so we can make suggestions that will help them accomplish what they want to without running risks as they are? Or is it just the guy's blog who you linked to?

ravdin · 15th June 2009, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ducky

You obviously miss my point. If you want to trust that an entire country now getting full internet access won't find CP somewhere on the net and it be tracked to your proxy, fine. Tor is an answer to do exactly what they want to do, it's in place, it works, and it protects those that run tor nodes by having the ability to deny knowledge as to where traffic comes from and what it is (the proxy can't tell much.)

As I said, I am all for helping circumvent oppressive censorship, but there is a smarter way to do this.

ETA: If I were an iranian government official and I wanted this to stop, all I would have to do is use the system to go get illegal content for those running the proxy and cause legal problems for these proxy owners. Tor stops that by only making the end point (which can be any point in the network) the only part that can be compromised, leaving thousands of other endpoints to use.

Ps: the cheap attempt at a guilt trip is obnoxious.

The message came across wrong: no guilt trip was intended. You're right that someone could cause problems for me if my public server address were to fall into the wrong hands. I'm willing to take a risk with the anonymity. The proxy doesn't need to be up long, and I'm trying to make it easy on non-experts trying to get the word out under less than ideal circumstances.

ravdin · 15th June 2009, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ducky

Is there a link to the organizers of this, so we can make suggestions that will help them accomplish what they want to without running risks as they are? Or is it just the guy's blog who you linked to?

The blog has a comment section, if you want to contribute. You can also tweet the organizer (@austinheap).

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

The message came across wrong: no guilt trip was intended.

Fair enough, I'll try not to be thin skinned

To the rest: It has implications for the success of this, though. What I'm worried about isn't just your legal problems, it's the success of the movement in a sustainable way. Eventually this needs to move to a system (like tor) that can survive attacks on end points or it will fail.

drainbread · 15th June 2009, 11:12 PM

Why not tor?

Because it's dog slow, the idea is to let the Iranians get their stories out in a timely manner and tor can't really handle that, could you imagine uploading a 40+ MB vid to Youtube at 5-15 kb/s max?

Tor is great for getting information in an anonymous fashion(good or bad) but sucks at providing information to the rest of the interwebs.

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by drainbread

Why not tor?

Because it's dog slow, the idea is to let the Iranians get their stories out in a timely manner and tor can't really handle that, could you imagine uploading a 40+ MB vid to Youtube at 5-15 kb/s max?

Tor is great for getting information in an anonymous fashion(good or bad) but sucks at providing information to the rest of the interwebs.

Ok the OP didn't mention what this is for. It said to help circumvent the firewalls, not that there is a timely immediate need for this.

You're right, Tor is slow. If you weren't trying to push large things out fast it would be the better answer. I was under the impression this was a generic need (like China's) and not a time-sensitive large-volume need.

That said, the risk is still there.

ravdin · 15th June 2009, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ducky

Fair enough, I'll try not to be thin skinned

To the rest: It has implications for the success of this, though. What I'm worried about isn't just your legal problems, it's the success of the movement in a sustainable way. Eventually this needs to move to a system (like tor) that can survive attacks on end points or it will fail.

That was my real concern- not that the mullahs will download CP, but that my proxy would be hit with DOS attacks. I see this as a temporary measure in any case- there's a short but critical window of opportunity for the uprising to work. I don't plan on keeping the proxy running for very long.

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 11:20 PM

ravdin: I'm apparently not getting the full picture here (as evidenced by drainbred's post) can you detail what the specific need is here? My responses were under the assumption this was like helping the Chinese people get around the great wall, which is a general and sustained need. This appears more immediate, can you detail what the goals/technical needs are for me?

(ETA: Also what is going on. I have been face deep in a bash shell on a deadline for the past week or so and am totally out of touch.)

ETA2: Ok so apparently there's something between a riot and a revolution going on and some contention about a fixed election (color me unsurprised.) I assume then, that this is in place as a temporary measure to move large files (video, audio, pictures etc.) to blogs to document what's going on, not a suggestion to help subvert government oppression in a sustained and permanent way (like my example of China.)

In that case the security needs are still valid, however the time sensitive nature of what is going on may outweigh the issues and Tor may well indeed be completely ineffective for large volume traffic. I would, however, caution that a DDoS response either from sheer traffic pointed at your proxy, or in a way to cause you legal problems, is probably a real issue and should be mitigated. I'd love to suggest to the organizers a way to more quickly use a central registry to bring up more nodes and down ones attacked in the list. Who do I email these scripting ideas to (and they wouldn't take long to script with squid.)

ravdin · 15th June 2009, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ducky

ravdin: I'm apparently not getting the full picture here (as evidenced by drainbred's post) can you detail what the specific need is here? My responses were under the assumption this was like helping the Chinese people get around the great wall, which is a general and sustained need. This appears more immediate, can you detail what the goals/technical needs are for me?

(ETA: Also what is going on. I have been face deep in a bash shell on a deadline for the past week or so and am totally out of touch.)

Ah! I forget this is not the Politics section.

Long story short: The Iranians recently held a fake "election" over the weekend. Even though the poll was a sham, there was an 85% turnout (compared to a 63% turnout with our last election in the USA). The current President, Mahmoud Ahmadinijad, was reportedly reelected in a landslide. The supposed results are highly dubious. A lot of angry protesters took to the streets today, even though the government imposed a ban. The police have been using live ammunition and beating protesters. There will certainly be more happening tomorrow.

Most significantly, the protesters have been using Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube to get the story out to the world. The regime is trying to block these sites, but they are failing miserably. Hence the call for proxy servers.

A bit more background:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8102224.stm
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/ (live blogging the revolution).

ETA: Going to bed now, so I may not respond to your next post for a while.

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 11:37 PM

hahaha we cross posted.

Is there a central contact for this proxy movement?

drainbread · 15th June 2009, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ducky

ravdin: I'm apparently not getting the full picture here (as evidenced by drainbred's post) can you detail what the specific need is here? My responses were under the assumption this was like helping the Chinese people get around the great wall, which is a general and sustained need. This appears more immediate, can you detail what the goals/technical needs are for me?

(ETA: Also what is going on. I have been face deep in a bash shell on a deadline for the past week or so and am totally out of touch.)

ETA2: Ok so apparently there's something between a riot and a revolution going on and some contention about a fixed election (color me unsurprised.) I assume then, that this is in place as a temporary measure to move large files (video, audio, pictures etc.) to blogs to document what's going on, not a suggestion to help subvert government oppression in a sustained and permanent way (like my example of China.)

In that case the security needs are still valid, however the time sensitive nature of what is going on may outweigh the issues and Tor may well indeed be completely ineffective for large volume traffic. I would, however, caution that a DDoS response either from sheer traffic pointed at your proxy, or in a way to cause you legal problems, is probably a real issue and should be mitigated. I'd love to suggest to the organizers a way to more quickly use a central registry to bring up more nodes and down ones attacked in the list. Who do I email these scripting ideas to (and they wouldn't take long to script with squid.)

It's is like a mirror image of the China situation where as people in China can't get information the people in Iran can't release information.

ravdin · 15th June 2009, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ducky

hahaha we cross posted.

Is there a central contact for this proxy movement?

me@austinheap.com. So far, the only person who has my proxy address- so I hope he is reliable.

Ducky · 15th June 2009, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

me@austinheap.com. So far, the only person who has my proxy address- so I hope he is reliable.

Thanks. I'll contact and see how things are handled and if there's a way I can help.

Ducky · 16th June 2009, 12:00 AM

Sent the following:

Quote:

Hi,

I'm a unix admin and have some questions before I throw up a proxy service for this cause.

I'm confused as to why these proxies are being set up in the manner they are, since Tor exists and is much less of a security risk for those running the node. I'll explain: If the Iranian government wises up slightly, in the set up I'm reading about that you have created, all they would need to do is point massive traffic at nodes to down them or more deviously use them to hit child porn and cause legal issues for the proxy owners. Tor exists to not only protect the end user, but all those running nodes on their network by not only encrypting the data but not allowing (within reason) node admins to see where the traffic comes from. This means an attack on an endpoint is not detrimental to the network as a whole. In the model you've created it would seem anyone running this is vulnerable to a myraid of legal and technical problems.

Also, I am curious how the central registry for this list of nodes is handled (which is automatic on Tor) and whether there is fast ability to manipulate network traffic to and from specific nodes in case of attack. Since your system doesn't seem to have much redundancy this could be an issue, but again, I'm not privy to how you're handling the central registry.

The install for tor is pretty easy, by the way. You can find info at:

http://www.torproject.org/

Install instructions for linux, mac and windows.

The drawback is this: Tor is pretty damned slow compared to a straight proxy. If you're trying to move things at lightning speed (which may or may not be a reasonable goal in this situation) Tor isn't the answer.

So I guess the questions is: Why not tor, and if not tor how can I help build some bulletproofing and security into the system you have in place so that we also are not subject to legal and technical problems? I'm happy to script some configs that would involve ssl connections and central registry, etc if I can...

Travis · 16th June 2009, 07:30 AM

From what I'm seeing on the news it's looking like things are degenerating fast and there may very well be a government toppling revolution happening in Iran that is being organized largely on the internet. Would this be the first time something like this has happened?

MattusMaximus · 16th June 2009, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

From what I'm seeing on the news it's looking like things are degenerating fast and there may very well be a government toppling revolution happening in Iran that is being organized largely on the internet. Would this be the first time something like this has happened?

I think so. If the Chinese student protesters in Tianeman (sp?) Square had Twitter back in 1989, things may have gone differently.

GreNME · 16th June 2009, 11:33 AM

There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting.

ravdin · 16th June 2009, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by GreNME

There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting.

Already done.

Ashles · 16th June 2009, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by GreNME

There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting.

Done.

realpaladin · 16th June 2009, 12:21 PM

4 Tor nodes fired up as well as having had good 'talks' with 'friendly' sysadmins.

MattusMaximus · 16th June 2009, 04:27 PM

I'm blogging about this right now, so as to spread the word as widely as possible.

boloboffin · 16th June 2009, 07:59 PM

I've done the Twitter change too.

Cleon · 16th June 2009, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by GreNME

There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting.

Done.

The Central Scrutinizer · 17th June 2009, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by GreNME

There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting.

Wouldn't that be lying?

MattusMaximus · 17th June 2009, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Wouldn't that be lying?

Yes, and I don't care.

I signed up on Twitter last night just to do this.

ravdin · 17th June 2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by GreNME

There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting.

Done here as well. Hey, you never know!

Ducky · 17th June 2009, 04:36 PM

I have yet to receive a reply from the guy I emailed re: proxy servers.

GreNME · 18th June 2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Wouldn't that be lying?

Right, because no one ever lies on the intarwebs.

Honestly, at this point, if the choice is between a small lie and someone getting tracked down and kidnapped or killed-- I kid you not, people are being taken from dorms, from hospitals, and from public places-- you can bet your patootie that I'll sing a song so sweet yet untrue.

GreNME · 18th June 2009, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ducky

I have yet to receive a reply from the guy I emailed re: proxy servers.

If it helps, you should know that there are now also several Tor proxies being used out there right now along with all the rest. At this point people are using whatever possible method they can to get messages out, because the windows for people to send out any information is getting smaller and smaller due to crackdowns.

As to a lack of reply to your e-mail, the guy could just be paranoid or very busy (or both).

Audible Click · 18th June 2009, 11:52 AM

Kudos to all of you for making this effort.

Ducky · 19th June 2009, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by GreNME

If it helps, you should know that there are now also several Tor proxies being used out there right now along with all the rest. At this point people are using whatever possible method they can to get messages out, because the windows for people to send out any information is getting smaller and smaller due to crackdowns.

As to a lack of reply to your e-mail, the guy could just be paranoid or very busy (or both).

I am pretty scary...

...After all I count in binary. With my fists.

GreNME · 19th June 2009, 08:55 AM

That's certainly scary. I wouldn't eff wit' ya.

Note to proxy-ers: a few people running proxies have reported being harassed and threatened. While the risk isn't as great as it is to those in Iran, be aware of the risks.

nathan · 19th June 2009, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Wouldn't that be lying?

Yes. What's your point?

kittynh · 19th June 2009, 01:18 PM

I'm twittering from "Tehran" now. Should we perhaps write pretend twits, like "nice fallafel for lunch today"?

15th June 2009, 08:08 PM	#1
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Set up a proxy for Iran citizens! If you have geek skills, an extra machine, and an interest in undermining fascist censorship, please help! Here's how you can set up an anonymous proxy server to help Iranians bypass the Internet barriers: Windows Linux Mac OS X
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

15th June 2009, 09:19 PM	#2
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Originally Posted by ravdin If you have geek skills, an extra machine, and an interest in undermining fascist censorship, please help! Here's how you can set up an anonymous proxy server to help Iranians bypass the Internet barriers: Windows Linux Mac OS X Um, no one in Iran has heard of Tor?
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

15th June 2009, 10:28 PM	#3
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,948	Originally Posted by ravdin If you have geek skills, an extra machine, and an interest in undermining fascist censorship, please help! Here's how you can set up an anonymous proxy server to help Iranians bypass the Internet barriers: Windows Linux Mac OS X Thanks, I'll pass it along. I know someone who can probably use this
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We *** up the air, the water, we **** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?"* -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness

15th June 2009, 10:40 PM	#4
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Ok some security concerns here, now that I have read this... I see where they set trusted IPs incoming as what is presumably Iranian IPs, however I don't see where this proxy is anonymizing. IE: This doesn't seem to be distributed, you're providing direct 1:1 proxy for someone, and don't have much control over what they do. This concerns me greatly. The point of Tor is that no one can be tracked back through the proxy, and the list of nodes is massive. This seems to me, on quick review, a process by which anyone tracking activity would see my IP and only if they followed up would notice a squid proxy running. This has legal implications for those in the US. Be forewarned of that. While I support the circumventing of oppressive censorship, I'm not sure I want to assume a legal liability to running an open proxy on this basis. Why, exactly, has Tor not been suggested? This is already in place, already gets the Chinese folks around the great firewall of China, and is very effective. On top of that, I don't have to assume liability for use of tor nodes, since I don't know where the traffic comes from when I run it.
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

15th June 2009, 10:44 PM	#5
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Ducky Ok some security concerns here, now that I have read this... I see where they set trusted IPs incoming as what is presumably Iranian IPs, however I don't see where this proxy is anonymizing. IE: This doesn't seem to be distributed, you're providing direct 1:1 proxy for someone, and don't have much control over what they do. This concerns me greatly. The point of Tor is that no one can be tracked back through the proxy, and the list of nodes is massive. This seems to me, on quick review, a process by which anyone tracking activity would see my IP and only if they followed up would notice a squid proxy running. This has legal implications for those in the US. Be forewarned of that. While I support the circumventing of oppressive censorship, I'm not sure I want to assume a legal liability to running an open proxy on this basis. Why, exactly, has Tor not been suggested? This is already in place, already gets the Chinese folks around the great firewall of China, and is very effective. On top of that, I don't have to assume liability for use of tor nodes, since I don't know where the traffic comes from when I run it. Agreed, there are some security concerns. These people are risking their lives, so I'm prepared to risk a little legal liability. If you would rather not, then don't.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

15th June 2009, 10:48 PM	#6
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Originally Posted by ravdin Agreed, there are some security concerns. These people are risking their lives, so I'm prepared to risk a little legal liability. If you would rather not, then don't. You obviously miss my point. If you want to trust that an entire country now getting full internet access won't find CP somewhere on the net and it be tracked to your proxy, fine. Tor is an answer to do exactly what they want to do, it's in place, it works, and it protects those that run tor nodes by having the ability to deny knowledge as to where traffic comes from and what it is (the proxy can't tell much.) As I said, I am all for helping circumvent oppressive censorship, but there is a smarter way to do this. ETA: If I were an iranian government official and I wanted this to stop, all I would have to do is use the system to go get illegal content for those running the proxy and cause legal problems for these proxy owners. Tor stops that by only making the end point (which can be any point in the network) the only part that can be compromised, leaving thousands of other endpoints to use. Ps: the cheap attempt at a guilt trip is obnoxious.
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Last edited by Ducky; 15th June 2009 at 10:56 PM.

15th June 2009, 11:00 PM	#7
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Is there a link to the organizers of this, so we can make suggestions that will help them accomplish what they want to without running risks as they are? Or is it just the guy's blog who you linked to?
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

15th June 2009, 11:08 PM	#8
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Ducky You obviously miss my point. If you want to trust that an entire country now getting full internet access won't find CP somewhere on the net and it be tracked to your proxy, fine. Tor is an answer to do exactly what they want to do, it's in place, it works, and it protects those that run tor nodes by having the ability to deny knowledge as to where traffic comes from and what it is (the proxy can't tell much.) As I said, I am all for helping circumvent oppressive censorship, but there is a smarter way to do this. ETA: If I were an iranian government official and I wanted this to stop, all I would have to do is use the system to go get illegal content for those running the proxy and cause legal problems for these proxy owners. Tor stops that by only making the end point (which can be any point in the network) the only part that can be compromised, leaving thousands of other endpoints to use. Ps: the cheap attempt at a guilt trip is obnoxious. The message came across wrong: no guilt trip was intended. You're right that someone could cause problems for me if my public server address were to fall into the wrong hands. I'm willing to take a risk with the anonymity. The proxy doesn't need to be up long, and I'm trying to make it easy on non-experts trying to get the word out under less than ideal circumstances.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

15th June 2009, 11:10 PM	#9
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Ducky Is there a link to the organizers of this, so we can make suggestions that will help them accomplish what they want to without running risks as they are? Or is it just the guy's blog who you linked to? The blog has a comment section, if you want to contribute. You can also tweet the organizer (@austinheap).
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

15th June 2009, 11:11 PM	#10
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Originally Posted by ravdin The message came across wrong: no guilt trip was intended. Fair enough, I'll try not to be thin skinned To the rest: It has implications for the success of this, though. What I'm worried about isn't just your legal problems, it's the success of the movement in a sustainable way. Eventually this needs to move to a system (like tor) that can survive attacks on end points or it will fail.
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

15th June 2009, 11:12 PM	#11
drainbread Scholar Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 101	Why not tor? Because it's dog slow, the idea is to let the Iranians get their stories out in a timely manner and tor can't really handle that, could you imagine uploading a 40+ MB vid to Youtube at 5-15 kb/s max? Tor is great for getting information in an anonymous fashion(good or bad) but sucks at providing information to the rest of the interwebs.
drainbread Scholar Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 101

15th June 2009, 11:14 PM	#12
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Originally Posted by drainbread Why not tor? Because it's dog slow, the idea is to let the Iranians get their stories out in a timely manner and tor can't really handle that, could you imagine uploading a 40+ MB vid to Youtube at 5-15 kb/s max? Tor is great for getting information in an anonymous fashion(good or bad) but sucks at providing information to the rest of the interwebs. Ok the OP didn't mention what this is for. It said to help circumvent the firewalls, not that there is a timely immediate need for this. You're right, Tor is slow. If you weren't trying to push large things out fast it would be the better answer. I was under the impression this was a generic need (like China's) and not a time-sensitive large-volume need. That said, the risk is still there.
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

15th June 2009, 11:16 PM	#13
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Ducky Fair enough, I'll try not to be thin skinned To the rest: It has implications for the success of this, though. What I'm worried about isn't just your legal problems, it's the success of the movement in a sustainable way. Eventually this needs to move to a system (like tor) that can survive attacks on end points or it will fail. That was my real concern- not that the mullahs will download CP, but that my proxy would be hit with DOS attacks. I see this as a temporary measure in any case- there's a short but critical window of opportunity for the uprising to work. I don't plan on keeping the proxy running for very long.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

15th June 2009, 11:20 PM	#14
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	ravdin: I'm apparently not getting the full picture here (as evidenced by drainbred's post) can you detail what the specific need is here? My responses were under the assumption this was like helping the Chinese people get around the great wall, which is a general and sustained need. This appears more immediate, can you detail what the goals/technical needs are for me? (ETA: Also what is going on. I have been face deep in a bash shell on a deadline for the past week or so and am totally out of touch.) ETA2: Ok so apparently there's something between a riot and a revolution going on and some contention about a fixed election (color me unsurprised.) I assume then, that this is in place as a temporary measure to move large files (video, audio, pictures etc.) to blogs to document what's going on, not a suggestion to help subvert government oppression in a sustained and permanent way (like my example of China.) In that case the security needs are still valid, however the time sensitive nature of what is going on may outweigh the issues and Tor may well indeed be completely ineffective for large volume traffic. I would, however, caution that a DDoS response either from sheer traffic pointed at your proxy, or in a way to cause you legal problems, is probably a real issue and should be mitigated. I'd love to suggest to the organizers a way to more quickly use a central registry to bring up more nodes and down ones attacked in the list. Who do I email these scripting ideas to (and they wouldn't take long to script with squid.)
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Last edited by Ducky; 15th June 2009 at 11:36 PM.

15th June 2009, 11:35 PM	#15
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Ducky ravdin: I'm apparently not getting the full picture here (as evidenced by drainbred's post) can you detail what the specific need is here? My responses were under the assumption this was like helping the Chinese people get around the great wall, which is a general and sustained need. This appears more immediate, can you detail what the goals/technical needs are for me? (ETA: Also what is going on. I have been face deep in a bash shell on a deadline for the past week or so and am totally out of touch.) Ah! I forget this is not the Politics section. Long story short: The Iranians recently held a fake "election" over the weekend. Even though the poll was a sham, there was an 85% turnout (compared to a 63% turnout with our last election in the USA). The current President, Mahmoud Ahmadinijad, was reportedly reelected in a landslide. The supposed results are highly dubious. A lot of angry protesters took to the streets today, even though the government imposed a ban. The police have been using live ammunition and beating protesters. There will certainly be more happening tomorrow. Most significantly, the protesters have been using Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube to get the story out to the world. The regime is trying to block these sites, but they are failing miserably. Hence the call for proxy servers. A bit more background: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8102224.stm http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/ (live blogging the revolution). ETA: Going to bed now, so I may not respond to your next post for a while.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan Last edited by ravdin; 15th June 2009 at 11:37 PM.

15th June 2009, 11:37 PM	#16
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	hahaha we cross posted. Is there a central contact for this proxy movement?
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

15th June 2009, 11:39 PM	#17
drainbread Scholar Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 101	Originally Posted by Ducky ravdin: I'm apparently not getting the full picture here (as evidenced by drainbred's post) can you detail what the specific need is here? My responses were under the assumption this was like helping the Chinese people get around the great wall, which is a general and sustained need. This appears more immediate, can you detail what the goals/technical needs are for me? (ETA: Also what is going on. I have been face deep in a bash shell on a deadline for the past week or so and am totally out of touch.) ETA2: Ok so apparently there's something between a riot and a revolution going on and some contention about a fixed election (color me unsurprised.) I assume then, that this is in place as a temporary measure to move large files (video, audio, pictures etc.) to blogs to document what's going on, not a suggestion to help subvert government oppression in a sustained and permanent way (like my example of China.) In that case the security needs are still valid, however the time sensitive nature of what is going on may outweigh the issues and Tor may well indeed be completely ineffective for large volume traffic. I would, however, caution that a DDoS response either from sheer traffic pointed at your proxy, or in a way to cause you legal problems, is probably a real issue and should be mitigated. I'd love to suggest to the organizers a way to more quickly use a central registry to bring up more nodes and down ones attacked in the list. Who do I email these scripting ideas to (and they wouldn't take long to script with squid.) It's is like a mirror image of the China situation where as people in China can't get information the people in Iran can't release information.
drainbread Scholar Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 101

15th June 2009, 11:41 PM	#18
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Ducky hahaha we cross posted. Is there a central contact for this proxy movement? me@austinheap.com. So far, the only person who has my proxy address- so I hope he is reliable.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

15th June 2009, 11:47 PM	#19
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Originally Posted by ravdin me@austinheap.com. So far, the only person who has my proxy address- so I hope he is reliable. Thanks. I'll contact and see how things are handled and if there's a way I can help.
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

16th June 2009, 12:00 AM	#20
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Sent the following: Quote: Hi, I'm a unix admin and have some questions before I throw up a proxy service for this cause. I'm confused as to why these proxies are being set up in the manner they are, since Tor exists and is much less of a security risk for those running the node. I'll explain: If the Iranian government wises up slightly, in the set up I'm reading about that you have created, all they would need to do is point massive traffic at nodes to down them or more deviously use them to hit child porn and cause legal issues for the proxy owners. Tor exists to not only protect the end user, but all those running nodes on their network by not only encrypting the data but not allowing (within reason) node admins to see where the traffic comes from. This means an attack on an endpoint is not detrimental to the network as a whole. In the model you've created it would seem anyone running this is vulnerable to a myraid of legal and technical problems. Also, I am curious how the central registry for this list of nodes is handled (which is automatic on Tor) and whether there is fast ability to manipulate network traffic to and from specific nodes in case of attack. Since your system doesn't seem to have much redundancy this could be an issue, but again, I'm not privy to how you're handling the central registry. The install for tor is pretty easy, by the way. You can find info at: http://www.torproject.org/ Install instructions for linux, mac and windows. The drawback is this: Tor is pretty damned slow compared to a straight proxy. If you're trying to move things at lightning speed (which may or may not be a reasonable goal in this situation) Tor isn't the answer. So I guess the questions is: Why not tor, and if not tor how can I help build some bulletproofing and security into the system you have in place so that we also are not subject to legal and technical problems? I'm happy to script some configs that would involve ssl connections and central registry, etc if I can...
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

16th June 2009, 07:30 AM	#21
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 23,932	From what I'm seeing on the news it's looking like things are degenerating fast and there may very well be a government toppling revolution happening in Iran that is being organized largely on the internet. Would this be the first time something like this has happened?
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale Humor blog

16th June 2009, 07:54 AM	#22
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,948	Originally Posted by Travis From what I'm seeing on the news it's looking like things are degenerating fast and there may very well be a government toppling revolution happening in Iran that is being organized largely on the internet. Would this be the first time something like this has happened? I think so. If the Chinese student protesters in Tianeman (sp?) Square had Twitter back in 1989, things may have gone differently.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We *** up the air, the water, we **** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?"* -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness

16th June 2009, 11:33 AM	#23
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,276	There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting.
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,276	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

16th June 2009, 12:03 PM	#24
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by GreNME There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting. Already done.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

16th June 2009, 12:19 PM	#25
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,689	Originally Posted by GreNME There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting. Done.
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell It is obvious to any scientist that the bumblebee can fly because experiment proves it. - Zetie 1996

16th June 2009, 12:21 PM	#26
realpaladin Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,585	4 Tor nodes fired up as well as having had good 'talks' with 'friendly' sysadmins.
	__________________ "All is needed (and it is essential to my definitions) is to understand the actuality beyond the description, for example: Nothing is actually" - Doron Shadmi "But this means you actually have nothing." - Realpaladin ---

16th June 2009, 04:27 PM	#27
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,948	I'm blogging about this right now, so as to spread the word as widely as possible.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We *** up the air, the water, we **** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?"* -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness

16th June 2009, 07:59 PM	#28
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,986	I've done the Twitter change too.
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,986

16th June 2009, 08:54 PM	#29
Cleon King of the Pod People Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 25,662	Originally Posted by GreNME There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting. Done.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

17th June 2009, 08:46 AM	#30
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 52,940	Originally Posted by GreNME There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting. Wouldn't that be lying?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

17th June 2009, 09:13 AM	#31
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,948	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Wouldn't that be lying? Yes, and I don't care. I signed up on Twitter last night just to do this.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We *** up the air, the water, we **** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?"* -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness

17th June 2009, 04:13 PM	#32
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by GreNME There are people calling for anyone with a twitter account to change their location to Tehran and their time to +3:30 GMT in order to throw off government searches for Iranian students who are tweeting. Done here as well. Hey, you never know!
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

17th June 2009, 04:36 PM	#33
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	I have yet to receive a reply from the guy I emailed re: proxy servers.
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

18th June 2009, 11:41 AM	#34
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,276	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Wouldn't that be lying? Right, because no one ever lies on the intarwebs. Honestly, at this point, if the choice is between a small lie and someone getting tracked down and kidnapped or killed-- I kid you not, people are being taken from dorms, from hospitals, and from public places-- you can bet your patootie that I'll sing a song so sweet yet untrue.
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,276	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

18th June 2009, 11:43 AM	#35
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,276	Originally Posted by Ducky I have yet to receive a reply from the guy I emailed re: proxy servers. If it helps, you should know that there are now also several Tor proxies being used out there right now along with all the rest. At this point people are using whatever possible method they can to get messages out, because the windows for people to send out any information is getting smaller and smaller due to crackdowns. As to a lack of reply to your e-mail, the guy could just be paranoid or very busy (or both).
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,276	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}