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Sylvia Browne useless again: Rochelle Robinson and Michael Johnston

Questioninggeller

Illuminator
Q
Joined
May 11, 2002
Messages
3,048
First, a report about the murder and Sylvia Browne's appearance:

FAMILIES OFFER $15,000 REWARD IN DOUBLE SLAYING
The News Tribune
Thursday, July 14, 1994
Author: John Hubbell

A television psychic and a steep reward were added Wednesday to the hunt to solve a double murder near Spanaway.

Families of Rochelle Robinson and Michael Johnston have stitched together a $15,000 reward in their search for clues about the June 27 slayings.

The reward announcement followed by a day an appearance by Johnston's widow, Janet, on a Seattle television talk show, where psychic Sylvia Browne offered astrological advice on the killing.
...
Exasperated by a lack of apparent progress as public attention wanes, Rochelle Robinson's father said he hoped the reward will attract new interest in the killing.
...
Tuesday, Janet Johnston appeared on KOMO-TV's "Northwest Afternoon" with Browne, the psychic.

She told Johnston the killings were a "crime of passion" committed by someone who wrongly believed the two were romantically linked. Several friends of Johnston and Robinson have told investigators the two were dating.

Browne also said she thought the killings relate to a man she called "Paul L.P."

Benson said investigators' leads don't correspond to Browne's revelations, and referenced similar Pierce County cases where psychics were consulted fruitlessly.

Robinson said he hopes the case avoids tabloid turns.

"I just don't want to turn it into a circus sideshow," Robinson said. "If (the psychic ) makes Janet feel better, then more power to her. We each handle these tragedies in a different way, and we've got to do what makes us feel comfortable."
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Full article: Source

Two years later:

AS PSYCHIC SEES IT, THERE'S LITTLE HOPE FOR MISSING 3-YEAR-OLD TACOMA GIRL
The News Tribune
Thursday, January 25, 1996
Author: C.R. Roberts; The News Tribune columnist

...
A vision of murder: Pennsylvania psychic Nancy Meyer recently has been working with a Tacoma private investigator on two local cases - the 1994 double homicide of Michael Johnston and Rochelle Robinson, and the 1992 disappearance of Misty Copsey - preparing for appearances on TV's "Unsolved Mysteries" and the new "Psychic Detectives."
...
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Full article: Source

Four years since the crime with the "help" of two "psychics":

FAMILY STILL WANTS ANSWERS - DROPPED CASE OF DAUGHTER'S SLAYING IS FINALLY BACK ON
Seattle Post-Intelligencer - Friday, November 20, 1998
Author: LISE OLSEN P-I Reporter

Jerry and Lynn Robinson cannot let go of their daughter Rochelle, though the 19-year-old was stabbed to death four years ago.
...
The Robinsons refuse to let go because Rochelle's killer has never been found - and the family has evidence that short staffing in the Pierce County Sheriff's Department is partly to blame.

"What we want is a comprehensive and thorough review of Rochelle's murder, and that hasn't happened,'' said her father, Jerry Robinson.

Until recently, the Rochelle Robinson case had been dropped by overworked investigators who cannot routinely handle ``cold cases'' - but it was recently reassigned to Detective Keith Barnes full time after the Post-Intelligencer interviewed the family.
...
Anyone with information about the case can contact Detective Barnes at the Pierce County Sheriff's Department, 253-798-2971.
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Full article: Source
 
Unsolved Mysteries

Unsolved Mysteries, not the most reasonable and respected source, did an episode on Rochelle Robinson & Michael Johnston's murder. According to TV.com:

Season 8, Episode 20 – Aired: 3/15/1996
Episode #367
Cases include:
...
Unexplained Death: Two lovers, Michael Johnston and Rochelle Robinson were murdered in 1994 in Tacoma, Washington. Investigators that elements of the occult were involved and enlist the help of a psychic to try to help solve the murders.
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remirol said:
Could you at least try to make these post-count bumps relevant to 2009?
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I, for one, find Q's posts interesting and informative. I doubt he does this to raise his post count and Robert Lancaster has been reading these Sylvia Browne threads and has said that he appreciates Q's work and will be using some of his stuff on his stopsylviabrowne website.
 
Audible Click said:
I, for one, find Q's posts interesting and informative. I doubt he does this to raise his post count and Robert Lancaster has been reading these Sylvia Browne threads and has said that he appreciates Q's work and will be using some of his stuff on his stopsylviabrowne website.
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If he wishes to contribute to Robert's website he should mail them to Robert. My point is that this is ostensibly a discussion forum, and there's nothing to discuss here, it's just preaching-to-the-choir and basking in the glow of past triumphs -- something which is done far too often by skeptics anyway. Let's be honest, Sylvia is as debunked as she's ever going to be (in large part _because_ of Robert's past work). There will always be people who will believe in her lies no matter what we say, and those people are still rather numerous and are not about to change their minds. There's nothing to say about her anymore of substance; if I need to bring up Sylvia in a discussion with a non-skeptic, I point that person to Robert's site, which will do a far better job of proving the case than I ever could. It's like the 9/11 CTs in a way -- it's faster and more effective to point that person to Gravy's work than it ever will be for me to bother learning how to explain it.

This is what I mean by basking in the glow of past triumphs. There's nothing to say other than "Sylvia? Yup, still a fraud". Can't we as a group find some people who are new to talk about, rather than banging out thread after thread of what's effectively ancient, irrelevant history? Perhaps as a compromise, a single thread with each new case posted to it, so that those of us who think these threads are even more meaningless than the Bigfoot threads can use the "Ignore Thread" tool effectively.
 
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Audible Click said:
That would be up to the mods. Why don't you suggest it?
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There are no rule breaches involved here, so it's inappropriate to involve the moderators until such time as everyone involved agrees (or doesn't) that all these threads should be merged.
 
remirol said:
Could you at least try to make these post-count bumps relevant to 2009?
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So skepticism must be related to 2009? I find information related to the paranormal and post it. If you don't care then use the ignore feature.

You think this research is for "post counts"? That's too funny. I could care less about such childish things. I've been on the JREF for seven years, why should I care about the number of posts?

Since you are concerned about post-counts I just look at your JREF contributions since you may be projecting. Your recent posts include:

remirol said:
YHBT. YHL. HAND. :oldroll:
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and

remirol said:
I thought you liked being exploited?

(Also, that explains the Charmin fetish.)
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and

remirol said:
Oh yeah? Well, your mama's a poop head.
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and
remirol said:
I'd rather have a ticket to the moon.
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And you accuse me of wasting forum space by posting cited material about a famous psychic? Please, no lectures from you. Our interests on the forum are different.

remirol said:
If he wishes to contribute to Robert's website he should mail them to Robert. My point is that this is ostensibly a discussion forum, and there's nothing to discuss here, it's just preaching-to-the-choir and basking in the glow of past triumphs -- something which is done far too often by skeptics anyway.
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You do realize who "QG" is who is credited on many articles on Robert's website? Maybe I am in contact with Robert and wish to share the yet to be published articles with the JREF board. Ever think about that?

There are more Browne cases and related issues then what's already published. Some people, as demonstrated above, are interested.

remirol said:
Let's be honest, Sylvia is as debunked as she's ever going to be (in large part _because_ of Robert's past work). There will always be people who will believe in her lies no matter what we say, and those people are still rather numerous and are not about to change their minds. There's nothing to say about her anymore of substance...
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I'd say all psychics are debunked as they're going to be and still people will believe them. Yet, there is plently more to say.

remirol said:
Can't we as a group find some people who are new to talk about, rather than banging out thread after thread of what's effectively ancient, irrelevant history?
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I think I speak for many people when I say Browne isn't anymore irrelevant than any other best-selling 'psychic' author. You feel otherwise, fine. Thanks for sharing.
 
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Questioninggeller said:
So skepticism must be related to 2009? I find information related to the paranormal and post it. If you don't care then use the ignore feature.
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Good example of how to respond to criticism like a mature adult. :oldroll:

I wish you'd bothered to respond to the actual issues I raised (preaching to the choir and basking in the glow of past triumphs) rather than just strawmanning up the place with a bunch of quote-mining and personal attacks. But it doesn't seem that you really "get it", so -- on ignore you go, per your request.

I'll put it more simply for you, just in case: Sylvia Browne is old news. We make ourselves look like obsessive nutjobs by chasing after her in this fashion. Robert's work was superb in providing anyone who's willing to listen a comprehensive resource. But it's time to move on.
 
remirol said:
Good example of how to respond to criticism like a mature adult. :oldroll:
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Do "mature" people like yourself usually quote out of context or did you do that just to attack me? There was more to my post.

remirol said:
I wish you'd bothered to respond to the actual issues I raised (preaching to the choir and basking in the glow of past triumphs) rather than just strawmanning up the place with a bunch of quote-mining and personal attacks.
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You've actually laid out the personal attacks and poor reasoning. The skepticism sub-forum as well as skeptic resources, all by and large, preach to the choir. But here's some posts from yesterday in this thread I started:

Audible Click said:
Good job. It's always interesting when you post. Thank you for your time and effort in further exposing the fraud named Sylvia Browne.
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EeneyMinnieMoe said:
Great job, QG! Some really fine work. :)

It's wrong but I'm almost happy to discover that a victim has been found dead or ruled to have been murdered when it proves Sylvia Browne incorrect.

And to think that all of those 110 cases are just the ones we have been able to find...how many times has she lied to a victim's family and collected money from them and it wasn't reported in the media? Or we only ended up with partial information and an incomplete case when we researched a murder? Or we weren't able to find out anything at all?
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Or as for members not in the choir, here is a post in another thread of mine:

Roma Hart said:
True, true, However my mother is a fervent believer in Sylvia Browne.
I am going to try to get her to read this thread, maybe she'll consider the evidence against Browne posted here. At the very least it might stop her from trying to convert me to the church of Sylvia. One can hope.

Thanks for the ammunition guys.
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remirol said:
I'll put it more simply for you, just in case: Sylvia Browne is old news. We make ourselves look like obsessive nutjobs by chasing after her in this fashion. Robert's work was superb in providing anyone who's willing to listen a comprehensive resource. But it's time to move on.
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As I said above, which you didn't address:

Questioninggeller said:
You do realize who "QG" is who is credited on many articles on Robert's website? Maybe I am in contact with Robert and wish to share the yet to be published articles with the JREF board. Ever think about that?

There are more Browne cases and related issues then what's already published. Some people, as demonstrated above, are interested.

I'd say all psychics are debunked as they're going to be and still people will believe them. Yet, there is plently more to say.

I think I speak for many people when I say Browne isn't anymore irrelevant than any other best-selling 'psychic' author. You feel otherwise, fine. Thanks for sharing.
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ETA: Those were your FULL posts. When you wrote, for example, "Oh yeah? Well, your mama's a poop head" that was your entire post. Cry quote-ming all you want, but when you post like that without quoting someone else or adding serious responses, don't complain about others' posts, which actually enter into a serious dialog with other people.
 
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I always appreciate these threads. Obviously I have a personal bias. Then again, I enjoy those on Altea, JE and JVP also. As long as these psychics are still in business, as Sylvia Browne still is, they are fair game for skeptics. Evidently, they still have fans or they would not be, so we still have work to do, and the more evidence the better.
 
QG is right to keep hammering at Browne. And the forum certainly isn't flooded with threads on Browne- it's only when QG and I get time and the energy to research that there are three or four on the forum.

One, as ExMinister pointed out, she is still in buisness. Someone's still buying her books, tapes, readings, etc. and while they are, it's our job to inform them. The enormous mountain of evidence against her is a good thing, not a bad thing. The sheer size of it speaks for itself- so throw a few more stones on.

Two, she needs to be held accountable. If she halted a search in 1995, was never publically accused of it by her victims, the people hurt suffered in silence and she actually got more publicity and fame because of it and everyone including herself has long since forgotten about it, she needs to be reminded of it. One's sins should come back to haunt.

Three, it might give the missing persons/murder victim's relatives a chance to come out and tell their side of the story and provide details about what went on with Browne and Williams. It gives them the opportunity to finally say "I was deceived" and tell others about it, as happened with Weyman Robbins' mother and Angie Lee's mother.
 
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EeneyMinnieMoe said:
QG is right to keep hammering at Browne. And the forum certainly isn't flooded with threads on Browne- it's only when QG and I get time and the energy to research that there are three or four on the forum.
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Perhaps it's unusual that I just saw 3-4 in the last day then?

One, as ExMinister pointed out, she is still in buisness. Someone's still buying her books, tapes, readings, etc. and while they are, it's our job to inform them. The enormous mountain of evidence against her is a good thing, not a bad thing. The sheer size of it speaks for itself- so throw a few more stones on.
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That, to me, is what Robert's site is for. I am not advocating abandoning Robert's site or stopping work on it, as it is the premier resource for such information -- but why post them here? I wouldn't mind seeing a single "sticky" thread on it either, but a whole bunch of threads effectively from the distant past simply brings up the points I made earlier in the thread. I simply think there are far too many _current_ things that need active focus on, and getting caught up in a "Get Sylvia" mentality simply detracts time and energy from those.

Two, she needs to be held accountable. If she halted a search in 1995, was never publically accused of it by her victims, the people hurt suffered in silence and she actually got more publicity and fame because of it and everyone including herself has long since forgotten about it, she needs to be reminded of it. One's sins should come back to haunt.
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The habit of trying to "punish" others is a poor one to get into. It leads to dogmatism and crusading, can detract from rational thought, and can be used to attack our own cause (promoting critical thinking) by portraying us as all of the above.

Our goal should be to inform and encourage informed decision-making, not to punish. I think you and QG long ago stepped across the line, judging from the bolded part and his emotional reaction to criticism; we should be pro-truth and pro-facts, not anti-(person).

Three, it might give the missing persons/murder victim's relatives a chance to come out and tell their side of the story and provide details about what went on with Browne and Williams. It gives them the opportunity to finally say "I was deceived" and tell others about it, as happened with Weyman Robbins' mother and Angie Lee's mother.
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And Robert's site is excellent for that. But here? Honestly, do we really think Sylvia is anything remotely in the forefront of the news? The only place I ever hear or read about her is here. Yes, she's still in business and she always will be until someone can successfully prosecute her for fraud, because her supporters long ago closed their mind to criticism of her. But the point is that bringing up old mistakes from the past isn't ... well, it isn't current, simply put! The lies she told then are appropriate to add to the litany of mistakes, simply so that someone can be referred to the sheer volume of misinformation she has handed out... but I think the Forum should be for more current information, something that can actually be _discussed_. It is no accident that this thread is the longest of these in recent history, and it's completely off-topic -- is that perhaps because there just isn't anything to say about Sylvia anymore?
 
Remirol, I have to respectfully disagree. These threads are not about the past. They are about events that happened in the past, being researched in the present, to help to debunk Sylvia Browne in the present, and are therefore relevant to the present.

Besides, it's not like there's a limited amount of room here for threads. Nor are we in danger of taking valuable space for more important topics. Unless you are a Bigfoot enthusiast, it's not like we've had an onslaught of cool threads here lately. I couldn't be less interested in Bigfoot. I prefer these threads. So... a little something for everyone. :)
 
ExMinister said:
Remirol, I have to respectfully disagree. These threads are not about the past. They are about events that happened in the past, being researched in the present, to help to debunk Sylvia Browne in the present, and are therefore relevant to the present.
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But that's the point I'm trying to get across, as mentioned above: she's been debunked as much as she ever will be. There's no shortage of evidence that she's a fraud. The believers, at this point, are there because they won't ever be listening to any of that evidence. Isn't it time to move on?

Besides, it's not like there's a limited amount of room here for threads. Nor are we in danger of taking valuable space for more important topics.
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Except in our minds... I simply think that focusing any more _mental_ effort on Sylvia at this point is a waste. Again, it's fine to collect these anecdotes and add them to the list on Robert's site, but I just can't see how these can generate any productive discussion -- which means that the appropriate spot for these is in an "archive" or "reference" thread, as suggested frequently.

And yes, the Bigfoot threads are a bunch of junk too, but there are a lot of blobsquatch supporters who come to this site to debate, and thus can actually be educated; witness the amount of activity in the threads, sad as it makes me. When did we last see a Sylvia supporter here? (And this is what I mean by "basking in past triumphs".)

I just see us as kicking the corpse of her career. Big deal. Let's move on.
 
ExMinister said:
Remirol, I have to respectfully disagree. These threads are not about the past. They are about events that happened in the past, being researched in the present, to help to debunk Sylvia Browne in the present, and are therefore relevant to the present.
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Indeed. As often as not, the psychic gets the headlines and the glory when they first offer to help, but the results of said "help" usually don't surface for a long time. I think it's a great idea to keep tracking these stories.

Also, QG has been a big part of Robert's efforts to stop Sylvia Browne.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
Indeed. As often as not, the psychic gets the headlines and the glory when they first offer to help, but the results of said "help" usually don't surface for a long time. I think it's a great idea to keep tracking these stories.
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*sigh*

remirol said:
That, to me, is what Robert's site is for. I am not advocating abandoning Robert's site or stopping work on it, as it is the premier resource for such information -- but why post them here? I wouldn't mind seeing a single "sticky" thread on it either,...
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remirol said:
I just see us as kicking the corpse of her career. Big deal. Let's move on.
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What's with all this "us" stuff? What do you actually do? This is only the third thread in GS&P you've posted in within the last three months. What makes you think anybody is going to follow your lead?

You started off quite rudely by publicly accusing QG of trying to boost his post count. Way to win friends and influence people. His posts are appropriate for this forum. People, myself included, like to read them. Yours is the only voice complaining about them.

Quite frankly, you look like a crank in a bad mood.

As for her "corpse of a career" do a Google news search for Sylvia Browne. I wouldn't call appearing on national TV, getting written up in US News and World Report, and doing a lecture tour ($25 to $65 a head) a dead career. I'd say she's doing pretty good for a 72 year old psychic.

Thing is, nobody needs to justify to you what should and shouldn't be posted here. If you don't like, don't read it. If you think the threads should be merged, report them. It's not a democracy where we all need to agree on it. It's up to the Mods to make those decisions regardless of your campaigning.

You should apologize to QG and then drop it.
 
Everyone stop the bickering about side issues, and stick to discussing the topic of the thread
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Professor Yaffle
 
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