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Tags controlled demolition , inside job , thermite , wtc7

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Old 19th June 2009, 08:48 PM   #1
alienentity
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New Video on Barry Jennings and Michael Hess

I've just finished a little video examining the testimony of Barry Jennings and Michael Hess. The purpose is to corroborate their stories with known times and events.

I got interested in doing this when I came across the 2007 interview of Mr. Jennings by Dylan Avery, and noticed that Mr. Jennings seemed to contradict himself in some important ways.

The most problematic statement he makes is that when he broke a window with a fire extinguisher and looked outside, he saw burning police cars and buses.
Mr. Hess corroborates this observation as well.

It is very difficult to come to any other conclusion but that the two men in fact had just experienced the collapse of Tower one. (having just emerged from the stairwell collapse/explosion).

It is not possible to interpret this as having occurred at 9:00am.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Last edited by alienentity; 19th June 2009 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 19th June 2009, 09:49 PM   #2
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What they experienced was the second plane impact, not the collapse of a tower.
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Old 19th June 2009, 09:57 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
What they experienced was the second plane impact, not the collapse of a tower.
Huh? Did you watch the video? Hess and Jennings report police vehicles and buses on fire, dust and office paper flying around. That's post-tower collapse stuff.

Also WTC7 was experiencing fire as well after WTC 2 collapsed. It's all on the video.

This is just the sort of weird confusion I was trying to clear up. Damn. Here we go again...
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:07 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Huh? Did you watch the video? Hess and Jennings report police vehicles and buses on fire, dust and office paper flying around. That's post-tower collapse stuff.
Obviously, if the event Jennings is talking about occurred at 9 am it can't be the tower collapse. The second plane hit at 9:03, though.
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:10 PM   #5
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The first fire alarm was reported at about 10:00am, around the time the power shut off.

There was no fire when the second plane hit.

Besides, WTC 1,the closest building, was hit first, while Jennings was driving to work. The large debris from the second plane impact (landing gear etc) didn't go anywhere near the NW side of WTC7.
It landed on WTC5 and a couple of blocks NE of WTC7.

Hess clearly stated that the power went out while they were on the 23rd floor. that happened around 10:00am. I included the Sept 11, 2001 interview with Hess to corroborate exactly that point!
There is no other explanation for this.
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Obviously, if the event Jennings is talking about occurred at 9 am it can't be the tower collapse. The second plane hit at 9:03, though.
Jennings is clearly confused about the exact time. It is not possible according to his timeline. Sorry.

You should watch the video before making more erroneous statements.
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:13 PM   #7
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=116661

Discussed here.

ETA: Also here.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=85646

ETA2: I apologize for my hasty and erroneous statements.
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Old 19th June 2009, 10:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
For the last time. The power to the elevators was gone. That happened when the S. Tower collapsed at roughly 10:00am.

Case closed. I don't need to read another thread, I already have these facts.
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Old 19th June 2009, 11:21 PM   #9
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Excellent job, I have posted to SLC.
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Old 20th June 2009, 12:11 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Excellent job, I have posted to SLC.
Thanks!

AE
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Old 20th June 2009, 03:35 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
For the last time. The power to the elevators was gone. That happened when the S. Tower collapsed at roughly 10:00am.

Case closed. I don't need to read another thread, I already have these facts.
jhunter is on your side, so even though you may have things correct, it never hurts to read the discussion others here have had on the matter...might help clear other things up, etc...

just a thought.

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Old 20th June 2009, 07:20 AM   #12
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That was one of the best videos I have seen on the subject of WTC 7 on all of YT. THe content and the production values far surpass most of the postings there. I applaude your work most enthusiasticly.

It might now be worthwhile to compare the accounts of fire fighters who responded to the strikes to get a timeline on some other events. As adddled as he may seem, I think that parts of Schroeder's statements contradict Willie's, if you lay them out against a similar ruler of time.
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Old 20th June 2009, 07:33 AM   #13
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brilliant work btw alienentity, just finished. Hope you keep making videos
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Old 20th June 2009, 06:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
That was one of the best videos I have seen on the subject of WTC 7 on all of YT. THe content and the production values far surpass most of the postings there. I applaude your work most enthusiasticly.

It might now be worthwhile to compare the accounts of fire fighters who responded to the strikes to get a timeline on some other events. As adddled as he may seem, I think that parts of Schroeder's statements contradict Willie's, if you lay them out against a similar ruler of time.
Do you have a favorite source for Schroeder's story? I'd love to have a link.

thx
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Old 20th June 2009, 08:12 PM   #15
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Brilliant video.
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Old 21st June 2009, 12:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Do you have a favorite source for Schroeder's story? I'd love to have a link.

thx
Schroeder is discussed at some length here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=89612

I bring it up here to point out how the same event will be observed differently from different locations. Trauma often clouds what we percieve in a chaotic situation.

But this may be a slight derail if we discuss Schroeder much further at this point.
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Old 21st June 2009, 01:25 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
I've just finished a little video examining the testimony of Barry Jennings and Michael Hess. The purpose is to corroborate their stories with known times and events.

I got interested in doing this when I came across the 2007 interview of Mr. Jennings by Dylan Avery, and noticed that Mr. Jennings seemed to contradict himself in some important ways.

The most problematic statement he makes is that when he broke a window with a fire extinguisher and looked outside, he saw burning police cars and buses.
Mr. Hess corroborates this observation as well.

It is very difficult to come to any other conclusion but that the two men in fact had just experienced the collapse of Tower one. (having just emerged from the stairwell collapse/explosion).

It is not possible to interpret this as having occurred at 9:00am.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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You are very good at making videos I must say.v That's a very classy production. I haven't really studied the content yet. I'll get back to you on that.
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Old 21st June 2009, 01:48 AM   #18
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Nice video. Did you get permission from Loose change to use their video?
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Old 21st June 2009, 03:00 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
I've just finished a little video examining the testimony of Barry Jennings and Michael Hess. The purpose is to corroborate their stories with known times and events.

I got interested in doing this when I came across the 2007 interview of Mr. Jennings by Dylan Avery, and noticed that Mr. Jennings seemed to contradict himself in some important ways.

The most problematic statement he makes is that when he broke a window with a fire extinguisher and looked outside, he saw burning police cars and buses.
Mr. Hess corroborates this observation as well.

It is very difficult to come to any other conclusion but that the two men in fact had just experienced the collapse of Tower one. (having just emerged from the stairwell collapse/explosion).

It is not possible to interpret this as having occurred at 9:00am.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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This is Hess's original statement where he does mention an explosion. Interestingly the reporter goes on to refer to explosionS...plural which some might think a little odd.

'' Anchor: 'Frank go ahead'...Reporter: 'That's right, I'm standing here right now just off broadway by City hall with Michael Hess who is the City's corporation ouncel' . 'Mr Hess', 'you were trapped I believe in Seven World Trade Centre,,,go ahead Sir'. ..Hess: 'Yes I was', 'I was up in the EOM on the 23rd floor and when all the power went out in the building another gentheman and I walked down to the 8th floor where here was an explosion and we were trapped on the 8th floor with smoke, thick smoke all around us for about an hour and a half hut the NYFD, as terrific as they are just came and got us out' Reporter: . 'Why did you happen to be at that particular place when the explosions took place '? Hess: 'Well the EEOM is where Ciry officials go when there is any emergency such as this one' Reporter: . ''How do you feel that the emergency management is going to be handling the situation ....it seems like they are still trying to arrange triage areas and areas of command [unintelligible]'...Reporter: 'where will they be now '? Hess; 'I don't know where the centres will be but obviously the mayor and commissioner Sheirer of OEM are watching the situation carefully, taking all the right moves and everything's under control' . Reporter: 'Where is the Mayor located now ' ? Hess: 'I don't know myself...as I say I was trapped in seven world trade centre for the last hour and a half'. Reporter: 'Thank you very much'...''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfiLbXMa64
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Old 21st June 2009, 03:58 AM   #20
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Yep, and that interview is timed at approximately 11:57 am. Hess's estimate of being trapped in the building for an hour and a half fits very nicely with the explanation that his 'explosion' was in fact the collapse of WTC1.
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Old 21st June 2009, 04:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Tweeter View Post
Nice video. Did you get permission from Loose change to use their video?
Funny thing that you bought this up, since they didn't get Barry Jennings permission to use his video but uploaded shortly after he died.

Some respectable people these guys are.
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Old 21st June 2009, 05:07 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by MarkyX View Post
Funny thing that you bought this up, since they didn't get Barry Jennings permission to use his video but uploaded shortly after he died.

Some respectable people these guys are.
That is funny, a truther asking someone if they got permission from the "great rapers of copyright" to use their footage.

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Old 21st June 2009, 05:14 AM   #23
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Dylan was probably afraid that if he got caught trying to warp Jennings' words he would have to eat them. Kind of like Miller putting orio Palmer's last transmission on his site as proof that the fires were going out, and that "patriots" argree with the twoofers.

I don't think Dylan and his punk buddies have ever met a real hero whom they have not in some way abused.
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Old 21st June 2009, 05:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by sleahead View Post
Yep, and that interview is timed at approximately 11:57 am. Hess's estimate of being trapped in the building for an hour and a half fits very nicely with the explanation that his 'explosion' was in fact the collapse of WTC1.
Personally I doubt that you would mistake the continuing rumble and roar of 500,000 tons of rubble continuously crashing down for a minimum of 10 long seconds for an explosion. An explosion is always of short duration.

Explosion,n.....def...[A violent release of energy caused by a chemical or nuclear reaction]
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Old 21st June 2009, 05:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Personally I doubt that you would mistake the continuing rumble and roar of 500,000 tons of rubble continuously crashing down for a minimum if 10 long seconds for an explosion. An explosion is always of short duration.
But he might, as did several hundred other witnesses, mistake a moving mass of air filled with dust and smoke that knocked him off his feet for an explosion.

Having never experienced the collapse of a skyscraper, accompanied by a massive turbidity flow before, most people are probably going to describe it as an "explosion" rather than as "a total collapse of the building, followed by a turbidity flow."

ETA:Note that, in the Naudet film, Chief Pfeifer also mistakes the collapse of the south tower for an explosion of some sort until he gets outside and has a look at the big gap in the sky.

Last edited by leftysergeant; 21st June 2009 at 05:23 AM. Reason: Completing a thought.
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Old 21st June 2009, 05:28 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
But he might, as did several hundred other witnesses, mistake a moving mass of air filled with dust and smoke that knocked him off his feet for an explosion.

Having never experienced the collapse of a skyscraper, accompanied by a massive turbidity flow before, most people are probably going to describe it as an "explosion" rather than as "a total collapse of the building, followed by a turbidity flow."
'Might' and 'possibly' are the first words in the 9/11 debunkers lexicon. Apparently if 'might' or 'possibly' ,however unlikely can be used to explain an event...why then ?...that's how it was obvously..

You would be amazed how many incidents on 9/11 tteceive this treatment. Never mind, we will get there anyway.
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Old 21st June 2009, 05:40 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Tweeter View Post
Nice video. Did you get permission from Loose change to use their video?
why don't you report him to the FCC if you are that concerned.
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Old 21st June 2009, 05:53 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
'Might' and 'possibly' are the first words in the 9/11 debunkers lexicon. Apparently if 'might' or 'possibly' ,however unlikely can be used to explain an event...why then ?...that's how it was obvously..

You would be amazed how many incidents on 9/11 tteceive this treatment. Never mind, we will get there anyway.
My point, and the point that idiots like Graeme MacQueen miss, is that we can never be sure what a person is describing if we did not see the same event. But, when we have the statements of several people who witnessed the same thing from different positions, we can get a better idea of what they observed.

We can rule out certain events on the basis of the evidence. We can, for instance, rule out the use of thermite on the basis of there having been no evidence of its use.

We long speculated here that Jennings might have been referring to the collapse as an "explosion," but needed corroboration that the collapse did occur at the same time. Now we have it. So now we say "apparently" or "obviously" Jennings is referring to the collapse.

As to what the fire fighters were doing when he called out to them can only be addressed in terms of "might" and "possibly."
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Old 21st June 2009, 08:33 AM   #29
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Bill Smith.

Ummm.. you realize there are dozens of things which explode in office fires right?

As for the 8th floor collapsing, it fits the time line for the collapse of the first tower.
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Old 21st June 2009, 09:15 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
This is Hess's original statement where he does mention an explosion. Interestingly the reporter goes on to refer to explosionS...plural which some might think a little odd.

'' Anchor: 'Frank go ahead'...Reporter: 'That's right, I'm standing here right now just off broadway by City hall with Michael Hess who is the City's corporation ouncel' . 'Mr Hess', 'you were trapped I believe in Seven World Trade Centre,,,go ahead Sir'. ..Hess: 'Yes I was', 'I was up in the EOM on the 23rd floor and when all the power went out in the building another gentheman and I walked down to the 8th floor where here was an explosion and we were trapped on the 8th floor with smoke, thick smoke all around us for about an hour and a half hut the NYFD, as terrific as they are just came and got us out' Reporter: . 'Why did you happen to be at that particular place when the explosions took place '? Hess: 'Well the EEOM is where Ciry officials go when there is any emergency such as this one' Reporter: . ''How do you feel that the emergency management is going to be handling the situation ....it seems like they are still trying to arrange triage areas and areas of command [unintelligible]'...Reporter: 'where will they be now '? Hess; 'I don't know where the centres will be but obviously the mayor and commissioner Sheirer of OEM are watching the situation carefully, taking all the right moves and everything's under control' . Reporter: 'Where is the Mayor located now ' ? Hess: 'I don't know myself...as I say I was trapped in seven world trade centre for the last hour and a half'. Reporter: 'Thank you very much'...''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfiLbXMa64
Bill, I don't usually respond to your posts, nor read them. But you have correctly quoted Hess' 9/11 interview. Of course I couldn't include much of it, nor the Jennings interview, in a 10-minute video. As you may recall, I did include the Jennings description, which already has the term 'explosion', and the BBC Hess interview is far more descriptive (even though I did edit his 'five things' omitting the description of the sprinklers, etc..) so I used that instead.
The purpose of the first interview clip was to establish that the power went out while they were in the OEM Command Center.

The video is not intended to inquire into the semantics of the word 'explosion', as clearly this is largely irrelevant when establishing the timeline; there is already more than sufficient testimony to explain the stairwell collapse, 'earthquake-like' shaking, dust and smoke etc... to rule this out as any type of explosive detonation.
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Old 21st June 2009, 09:19 AM   #31
alienentity
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Originally Posted by Tweeter View Post
Nice video. Did you get permission from Loose change to use their video?
My understanding of the video's posting on the internet was that it was a public release. There is a LooseChange watermark on the video, but no copyright warning, if you view Avery's own post. You may notice that I also fully credited Avery for the footage (when was the last time anyone bothered to do that on a youtube video?)

The video has already appeared on youtube anyway, which allows for reuse for commentary.
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Old 21st June 2009, 11:14 AM   #32
leftysergeant
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Actually, unless the little creep has a signed release from Jennings to use the footage, he has no ownership rights to it anyway. Let him sue. I am sure that the Jennings estate would love to join the counter-suit and make a few extra dollars and get the twoofers out of their lives.
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Old 21st June 2009, 12:38 PM   #33
bill smith
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Bill, I don't usually respond to your posts, nor read them. But you have correctly quoted Hess' 9/11 interview. Of course I couldn't include much of it, nor the Jennings interview, in a 10-minute video. As you may recall, I did include the Jennings description, which already has the term 'explosion', and the BBC Hess interview is far more descriptive (even though I did edit his 'five things' omitting the description of the sprinklers, etc..) so I used that instead.
The purpose of the first interview clip was to establish that the power went out while they were in the OEM Command Center.

The video is not intended to inquire into the semantics of the word 'explosion', as clearly this is largely irrelevant when establishing the timeline; there is already more than sufficient testimony to explain the stairwell collapse, 'earthquake-like' shaking, dust and smoke etc... to rule this out as any type of explosive detonation.
I would have thought it was important to play the Hess clip where he mentions 'explosion'. Especially as the mention was made about a half-hour or so after he had actually experienced it. I can't quite remember now ?....right after Jennings disappeared and Hess made a new statement- did he mention the word 'explosion' when he revisited the story on some interview ?

If he didn't and then video historians like you also forget to mention it you vcan see how easily the authentic historical record might beome distorted or skewed ?

I hope you will consider a Temporary withdrawal while the necessary corrections are made. Or perhaps an early addendum ?
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Last edited by bill smith; 21st June 2009 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 21st June 2009, 05:13 PM   #34
leftysergeant
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I hope you will consider a Temporary withdrawal while the necessary corrections are made. Or perhaps an early addendum ?
Take your finger out of your ears and stop singning. Hess has busted the chops of anyone who claims he heard or experienced anything remotely similar to bombs.

Live with it.
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Old 21st June 2009, 05:49 PM   #35
Rogue1stclass
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I once had an F-16 fighter jet crash in my neighborhood.

It clipped a tree and a telephone pole, bounced twice off the street before smashing into a house. The house caught fire and burned to the ground. This all happened two blocks away.

I would describe what I heard as an explosion. "Explosion" is descriptive and relatable in a way that "plane falling out of the sky" isn't.
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Old 21st June 2009, 07:12 PM   #36
leftysergeant
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Originally Posted by Rogue1stclass View Post
I would describe what I heard as an explosion. "Explosion" is descriptive and relatable in a way that "plane falling out of the sky" isn't.
I have actually heard both and they are totally different to me.

But that is just me, because I have heard both and most people haven't.

Nobody had heard what Hess and Jennings heard before, but a lot of them, including Hess and Jennings had heard explosions before. This was just another variety of explosion. Jennings had heard boilers explode, and stated categorically that it did not sound like a boiler exploding.

I have heard those, too.

The explosion of a bomb would sound more like a boiler than a skyscraper. I do not know, off hand, whether either Hess or Jennings was ever in the military, so it would be largely speculation on my part whether they had any other frame of referrence.

I do know that the way that Hess compared the impact of his "explosion" to a wind is consistant with a collapse, and with Jennings' statement thast it blew them up the stairs. (And yet, both of them came out with no obvious impairment of their senses or thought processes. Definitely un-bomb-like event.)
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Old 21st June 2009, 09:29 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I would have thought it was important to play the Hess clip where he mentions 'explosion'. Especially as the mention was made about a half-hour or so after he had actually experienced it. I can't quite remember now ?....right after Jennings disappeared and Hess made a new statement- did he mention the word 'explosion' when he revisited the story on some interview ?

If he didn't and then video historians like you also forget to mention it you vcan see how easily the authentic historical record might beome distorted or skewed ?

I hope you will consider a Temporary withdrawal while the necessary corrections are made. Or perhaps an early addendum ?
Bill. Please stop doing this. I gave you a comprehensive answer, and I don't really care if you can't deal with it.
Your last post is rather incoherent, IMHO a waste of time to respond to. I'm sorry for the bluntness.

If you feel motivated, please feel free to make your own video. You insult everyone's intelligence when you start insinuating that somehow the historical record is skewed because of the non-inclusion of a particular descriptor; I have Hess a very long quote where he describes, in great detail and clarity, exactly what he experienced.

If you can't accept his testimony, that's your problem. Get over it.

I'm not going to apologize to the 'truth' movement and its various minions, yourself prime among them, who have done a vast amount of vicious distortion and prevarication in order to push a mythological story. It is the truther movement which has created the misconceptions surrounding the collapse of WTC7 and the testimony of Mr. Jennings.

You show me, once again, why I have you on ignore. You are a complete waste of time.
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mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon'
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Old 21st June 2009, 11:08 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Bill. Please stop doing this. I gave you a comprehensive answer, and I don't really care if you can't deal with it.
Your last post is rather incoherent, IMHO a waste of time to respond to. I'm sorry for the bluntness.

If you feel motivated, please feel free to make your own video. You insult everyone's intelligence when you start insinuating that somehow the historical record is skewed because of the non-inclusion of a particular descriptor; I have Hess a very long quote where he describes, in great detail and clarity, exactly what he experienced.

If you can't accept his testimony, that's your problem. Get over it.

I'm not going to apologize to the 'truth' movement and its various minions, yourself prime among them, who have done a vast amount of vicious distortion and prevarication in order to push a mythological story. It is the truther movement which has created the misconceptions surrounding the collapse of WTC7 and the testimony of Mr. Jennings.

You show me, once again, why I have you on ignore. You are a complete waste of time.
You may give Hess a long passage but you excised probably the most important piece of evidence that he gave- that of him having experienced an explosion. This provided vital corobberation for Barry Jennings's account of having heard multiple explosions. You excluding this information when you don't have to shows an attempt to distort the historical record. I invite any poster to read back over our last couple of exchanges and to play the two videos to establish this fact for themselves beyond doubt.

For a videographer the sin by omission is as great as the sin by commission. You have shown where you stand on 9/11 and how far you are prepared to go to promote a skewed and distorted view of the events. At least these posts will be here for people to judge for hemselves whether or not you are being wholly honest in the video you made.
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*A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough
* To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'

Last edited by bill smith; 21st June 2009 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 21st June 2009, 11:55 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
You may give Hess a long passage but you excised probably the most important piece of evidence that he gave- that of him having experienced an explosion. This provided vital corobberation for Barry Jenning's acount of having heard multiple explosions. You excluding this information when you don't have to shows an attempt to distort the historical record. I invite any poster to read back over our last couple of exchanges and to play the two videos to establish this fact for themselves beyond doubt.

For a videographer the sin by omission is as great as the sin by commission. You have shown where you stand on 9/11 and how far you are prepared to go to promote a skewed and distorted view of the events. At least these posts will be here for people to judge for hemselves whether or not you are being wholly honest in the video you made.
You have had 7 years to figure out 911 and you failed.

Too bad you can't do research as alienentity does. You lost this argument due to ignorance on the topic, no logic, and overall failure to understand reality. After a few years of education you could try to research and understand 911 with a fresh start. Your present comprehension of 911 events is dismal. Good luck
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Old 22nd June 2009, 02:24 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
For a videographer the sin by omission is as great as the sin by commission. You have shown where you stand on 9/11 and how far you are prepared to go to promote a skewed and distorted view of the events. At least these posts will be here for people to judge for hemselves whether or not you are being wholly honest in the video you made.
This paragraph made me laugh. You just described Loose Change.
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