Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't speak in whole sentences

BigAl · 24th June 2009, 09:25 AM

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

Quote:

As official videographer for the U.S. government, Kurt Sonnenfeld was detailed to Ground Zero on September 11, 2001, where he spent one month filming 29 tapes: "What I saw at certain moments and in certain places ... is very disturbing!"

We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing.

As for claims of censorship, images of bodies are always withheld.

There were lots of bodies at WTC.

J. Wellington Wimpy · 24th June 2009, 09:27 AM

Ah, yes. Kurt Sonnenfeld, currently cowering in an undisclosed Argentinian location while desperately attempting to avoid extradition charges re: the shooting murder of his wife (whose final words to her hubby/slayer, evidently, were "Kurt, please get help"), the bloody carrying out of which he foolishly confessed to his old cellmates.

Interesting (although certainly not unexpected) "source" for the Twoof Movement to cite, by way of back-up for their increasingly spastic claims.

RedIbis · 24th June 2009, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by BigAl

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing.

As far as claims of censorship. Images of bodies are always withheld. There were lots of bodies at WTC.

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

johnny karate · 24th June 2009, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

Great question. Hopefully this thread will devolve into another pointless semantics debate. Be sure to check the OP for proper punctuation and grammar while you're at it.

Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw?

J. Wellington Wimpy · 24th June 2009, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw?

Knowing the Twoofers...? "Dick Cheney, draped in a handstitched, still-bloody skinsuit, a la Ed Gein, romping amongst the high-piled corpses and debris and cackling like an amphetamined Chupacabra."

RedIbis · 24th June 2009, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Great question. Hopefully this thread will devolve into another pointless semantics debate. Be sure to check the OP for proper punctuation and grammar while you're at it.

Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw?

What exactly is wrong with questioning a claim in the thread title?

johnny karate · 24th June 2009, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

What exactly is wrong with questioning a claim in the thread title?

Because it has no bearing on the topic at hand. Did Sonnenfeld actually use a full sentence? Technically, yes. So what? Does the OP's claim about the sentence structure of his statement have any impact on its content? Not in the slightest. At worst, it's an issue of imprecise language.

The real issue here is how The Truth Movement is taking one man's incredibly vague remark and pretending it has any significance. It's a non-story, and the website linked is treating it like it has substance. You nitpicking the wordage of the thread title is nothing more than a smokescreen and a derail.

jaydeehess · 24th June 2009, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought.

Is that better RI?

jaydeehess · 24th June 2009, 11:08 AM

BTW, I thought that Sonnefeld's big claim was that 911 was a LIHOP in which the admin knew the hijackers were coming but just allowed it to go forth.

RedIbis · 24th June 2009, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought.

Is that better RI?

He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either.

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

johnny karate · 24th June 2009, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either.

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note.

BigAl · 24th June 2009, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note.

If he was working for FEMA, if tapes exist FEMA would have them and a FOIA request should pry them loose.

It's not nice to steal government property.

RedIbis · 24th June 2009, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by BigAl

If he was working for FEMA, if tapes exist FEMA would have them and a FOIA request should pry them loose.

It's not nice to steal government property.

He's in Argentina.

T.A.M. · 24th June 2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note.

exactly. Funny that...he will claim the tapes contain something revolutionary, yet will he tell us what is on them???

I am calling bullcrap on this one...we will see.

TAM

T.A.M. · 24th June 2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either.

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

What more could be to the story that his accusers are providing?

TAM

T.A.M. · 24th June 2009, 11:45 AM

Let me guess...all the evidence of these attempts to harrass him, this sacking of his office, etc... is not available because they are covering it up...part of the grand conspiracy.

The man may have been innocent of murder, that I have not read on beyond his comments in the article, but the rest is gonna require a LOT MORE than his "account" of things. We've all seen these type of allegations before...I haven't seen a single one turn out to be true with evidence to back it.

TAM

This stuff is old sure...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...555425,00.html

T.A.M. · 24th June 2009, 11:54 AM

Interesting parts from the above article (in my last post),

Quote:

The charges against Sonnenfeld were dismissed just before trial in June 2002 after a note written by Nancy Sonnenfeld was found that supported Kurt Sonnenfeld's contention that she took her own life.

New charges were filed in 2004, however, after two Denver jail inmates came forward to say Sonnenfeld had confessed to them during his time in custody. By then, Sonnenfeld had remarried and was living in Argentina.

He has been fighting extradition ever since, describing the warrants against him as "a false pretext for other darker motives."

That drew a sharp rebuke Tuesday from Chief Denver District Attorney Michelle Amico.

"I have heard that nonsense from him . . . but then he has nothing to back it up," she said.

An Argentine judge refused to extradite Sonnenfeld in 2005 because of concerns that he could face the death penalty.

The U.S. Department of Justice appealed that decision, assuring the court that no death sentence would be sought, Amico said. The Justice Department has since been notified that the extradition is on hold while an asylum request is pending, a process that could take months or even years.

In a series of recent e-mails to the Rocky Mountain News, Sonnenfeld said Argentina's highest court had rejected the appeal and had sent his case back to the presiding judge for ratification.

Sonnenfeld did not bring up 9/11 when the initial murder case was pending against him or during a lengthy interview with the Rocky on the day he was released from jail.

He also declined to specifically discuss the World Trade Center in a 12-page, single-spaced document he sent to the newspaper in late-night e-mail sessions Sunday and Monday.

"You are asking me to antagonize the very people who, for whatever reason, desperately want me destroyed," Sonnenfeld wrote. "Frankly, I am afraid for the safety of my family. Please don't ask me about what information I have. This is not really the time or the forum."

TAM

Bobert · 24th June 2009, 12:31 PM

Interesting that he would choose to move to a foreign country after his wifes alleged suicide.
Of course this doesn't prove he actually murdered her but still an interesting decision.
Too bad that they didn't have his cell tapped to obtain his confession in my former capacity we would pair up high profile murders with another cell mate and record, hoping for a confession.
BIG SHOCKER to learn that he had a heroin habit.

johnny karate · 24th June 2009, 12:32 PM

What a joke. So apparently a guy who has yet to reveal any incriminating information, and has repeatedly expressed his disinclination to do so, is being publicly threatened and framed in an elaborate set-up to ensure that he continues not talking.

I'm not sure if the NWO experienced a lot of turn over after 9/11, but the clods running this operation certainly can't be the same precision black-ops superninjas who managed to secretly blow up a bunch of skyscrapers in broad daylight. Don't evil governments just assassinate people anymore?

Bobert · 24th June 2009, 12:46 PM

Maybe he is a shill who they had implanted into the truth movement but he turned so they murdered his wife to keep him quiet?
I am just asking questions.
MAYBE they tried to turn her against him but she refused so they faked her murder and gave her a PHAT CHECK and now she is living a wonderful life on an exotic island?
I think the Coen Bros should make a movie about the truth movement a la Burn After Reading

theprestige · 24th June 2009, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by J. Wellington Wimpy

"Dick Cheney, draped in a handstitched, still-bloody skinsuit, a la Ed Gein, romping amongst the high-piled corpses and debris and cackling like an amphetamined Chupacabra."

Best. Vice President. EVER.

Walter Ego · 24th June 2009, 12:59 PM

Sonnenfeld's 9/11 CTs re the CIA were featured on Latin American television.

(The video clip is in Spanish.)

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Bable Fish translation of the You Tube description of the video:

Kurt Sonnenfeld, camarografo that filmed 90% of images that passed on reporters 11 of September of 2001, and that Internet continues passing on, also it worked in position in house white, and not him pulse shakes when to declare that 11-s was car-attack, and that tried to shut up it by means of murder accusations (of which it allied frees for obvious reasons), toturas, and imprisonments.

Alt+F4 · 24th June 2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

On September 11, 2001, the area known as “Ground Zero” was sealed from the public eye.

Lie number 1.

Quote:

It was odd to me that all cameras were so fiercely prohibited within the secured perimeter of Ground Zero...

Lie number 2.

Quote:

FEMA and several other federal agencies had already moved into position at their command center at Pier 92 on September 10th, one day before the attacks!

Lie number 3.

Quote:

We are asked to believe that all four of the “indestructible” black boxes of the two jets that struck the twin towers were never found because they were completely vaporized

Lie number 4.

Quote:

I have video that shows how curiously small the rubble pile was, and how the buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed.

Lie number 5.

And that was just with a quick reading.

T.A.M. · 24th June 2009, 02:44 PM

oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo.

TAM

Thunder · 24th June 2009, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by BigAl

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

I see nothing interesting or ground-breaking in his interview.

I guess we will just have to wait for 2010 for something magical to happen.

Or maybe 2011.

jaydeehess · 24th June 2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought.

Is that better RI?

Originally Posted by RedIbis

He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either.

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

You really did not answer my question RI.

I asked if the thread title was that Sonnenfeld could not complete a thought , would that have been more to your liking?

K.S. says that he saw things on 9/11 that indicated to him that the gov't had foreknowledge but he will not say what those things are. He says that items were removed from CIA offices before 9/11 but will not explain how, in filming the debris of 7 buildings he managed to discover that there were things missing from one office.
He says a lot of things but fails to give the complete story on everything he says. He is a heroin addict (by his own admission) and there is evidence (though not enough to convict him) that he killed his wife. Is there a reason why anyone should find him credible?

jaydeehess · 24th June 2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo.

TAM

The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy.

RedIbis · 24th June 2009, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

You really did not answer my question RI.

I asked if the thread title was that Sonnenfeld could not complete a thought , would that have been more to your liking?

K.S. says that he saw things on 9/11 that indicated to him that the gov't had foreknowledge but he will not say what those things are. He says that items were removed from CIA offices before 9/11 but will not explain how, in filming the debris of 7 buildings he managed to discover that there were things missing from one office.
He says a lot of things but fails to give the complete story on everything he says. He is a heroin addict (by his own admission) and there is evidence (though not enough to convict him) that he killed his wife. Is there a reason why anyone should find him credible?

You're so conditioned to debunk that you failed to see that I've not defended his position even once. In fact I stated quite clearly,

Quote:

His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.

Edx · 24th June 2009, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy.

Its like in 91 Mysteries which says its both an implosion and an explosion in the same damn film!

T.A.M. · 24th June 2009, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy.

The size of the rubble pile would not be effected by "controlled" versus "uncontrolled" collapse, so it is a nonstarter, IMO, unless you are a Judy "space beam" Wood.

TAM

BigAl · 24th June 2009, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?

In my OP, I was making a reference to the ellipses in the quote. Early in the debunking business, I realized that whenever a Truth Quote has "..." in it, the meaning when the unedited quote is found very likely reverses the intended meaning or makes it somehow irrelevant.

This google search will show that as of today, j911s has 141 ellipses on it's website. Some of them are innocent but lots of them are used to obscure words that contradict Truther claims. I've read many of them.

"..." site:http://www.journalof911studies.com/

It was this search that changed my opinion of the "Truth Movement" from "people that are ignorant of lots of things" to "people that are intentional intellectual liars and frauds."

Bobert · 24th June 2009, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

You're so conditioned to debunk that you failed to see that I've not defended his position even once. In fact I stated quite clearly,

Redibus,
Hmmmm take your pick
a) be part of a group that is accused of being, "conditioned to debunk"
b) be part of a group that goes on shooting sprees (2 that I know of so far), murders their own father, and may have murdered their own wife.

Cl1mh4224rd · 24th June 2009, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo.

Actually, I'm pretty sure bill smith was arguing that insanity just last month...

RedIbis · 24th June 2009, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bobert

Redibus,
Hmmmm take your pick
a) be part of a group that is accused of being, "conditioned to debunk"
b) be part of a group that goes on shooting sprees (2 that I know of so far), murders their own father, and may have murdered their own wife.

I try not to divide the human race into two distinct groups, but I'll try and understand you here. How does "a group" murder its own father?

I know you guys don't like to pick on your own but if anyone was looking for a truly stundilious example of bifurcated logic, you won't find one better.

Horatius · 24th June 2009, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

I try not to divide the human race into two distinct groups, but I'll try and understand you here. How does "a group" murder its own father?

"Family"?

Athyrio · 24th June 2009, 06:30 PM

They call this guy a "whistleblower" yet he is not claiming to have been one of the conspirators. There hasn't been such a whistleblower yet. Give me one of the guys who "emptied" the vault or one of the guys that "trucked" the contents of it away - somebody who was issued a real whistle to blow, not somebody whistling their conspiracy theories through their teeth.

J. Wellington Wimpy · 24th June 2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

He is a heroin addict (by his own admission) and there is evidence (though not enough to convict him) that he killed his wife. Is there a reason why anyone should find him credible?

It's like annointing Iggy Pop or Phil Spector as your movement's ethical or intellectual avatar.

Orphia Nay · 25th June 2009, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by BigAl

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing.

As for claims of censorship, images of bodies are always withheld.

There were lots of bodies at WTC.

Quote:

Kurt Sonnenfeld lives in exile in Argentina, where he wrote "El Perseguido" (the persecuted). His recently-published book tells the story of his unending nightmare and drives another nail into the coffin of the government’s account of the 9/11 events. Below is an exclusive interview by The Voltaire Network.

So to find out what "evidence" he's got, we have to buy his book, which he's published to profit from 9/11, like all the Twoof leading ~~lights~~ dimwits.

That proves he's scum enough for me.

McHrozni · 25th June 2009, 01:52 AM

According to this guy the 9/11 conspirators let an uninitiated man roam free with a camera to document the aftermath of their crimes, and failed to kill or otherwise silence him afterward.

Yeah. That makes a whole lot of sense.

McHrozni

jaydeehess · 25th June 2009, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

You're so conditioned to debunk that you failed to see that I've not defended his position even once. In fact I stated quite clearly,

What does it say about you that I now have to state again that you have still not answered my question.
I did not originally (in post 8) ask you about anything referring to defending Sonnefeld.
I asked you whether or not my change to the title would have been more to your liking.

Only later did I ask if his story should be credible to anyone. This was more an editorial of my own on the subject. Sorry that it does indeed appear that I was addressing you directly with it. I had gathered by your first response that you found his story rather fantastic(using the fantasy connotation).

24th June 2009, 09:25 AM	#1
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,397	Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't speak in whole sentences http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html Quote: As official videographer for the U.S. government, Kurt Sonnenfeld was detailed to Ground Zero on September 11, 2001, where he spent one month filming 29 tapes: "What I saw at certain moments and in certain places ... is very disturbing!" We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing. As for claims of censorship, images of bodies are always withheld. There were lots of bodies at WTC.
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,397	__________________ ------ Eric Pode of Croydon Chief Assistant to the Assistance Chief, Dept of Redundancy Dept. Last edited by BigAl; 24th June 2009 at 09:51 AM.

24th June 2009, 09:27 AM	#2
J. Wellington Wimpy Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 354	Ah, yes. Kurt Sonnenfeld, currently cowering in an undisclosed Argentinian location while desperately attempting to avoid extradition charges re: the shooting murder of his wife (whose final words to her hubby/slayer, evidently, were "Kurt, please get help"), the bloody carrying out of which he foolishly confessed to his old cellmates. Interesting (although certainly not unexpected) "source" for the Twoof Movement to cite, by way of back-up for their increasingly spastic claims.
	__________________ "There is a fine line between climate science and climate evangelism. I am for climate science." -- Indian Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh "I have a doctorate and I can KICK YOUR ASS!!!" -- Harley Quinn, Batman #663

24th June 2009, 09:36 AM	#3
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	Originally Posted by BigAl http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html We never find out what he found to be "disturbing". Normal people find mutilated bodies disturbing. As far as claims of censorship. Images of bodies are always withheld. There were lots of bodies at WTC. I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there?
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

24th June 2009, 09:55 AM	#5
J. Wellington Wimpy Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 354	Originally Posted by johnny karate Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw? Knowing the Twoofers...? "Dick Cheney, draped in a handstitched, still-bloody skinsuit, a la Ed Gein, romping amongst the high-piled corpses and debris and cackling like an amphetamined Chupacabra."
	__________________ "There is a fine line between climate science and climate evangelism. I am for climate science." -- Indian Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh "I have a doctorate and I can KICK YOUR ASS!!!" -- Harley Quinn, Batman #663

24th June 2009, 09:58 AM	#6
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	Originally Posted by johnny karate Great question. Hopefully this thread will devolve into another pointless semantics debate. Be sure to check the OP for proper punctuation and grammar while you're at it. Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw? What exactly is wrong with questioning a claim in the thread title?
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

24th June 2009, 09:49 AM	#4
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 16,209	Originally Posted by RedIbis I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there? Great question. Hopefully this thread will devolve into another pointless semantics debate. Be sure to check the OP for proper punctuation and grammar while you're at it. Back on topic: The Truth Movement is aware that hundreds of people were all over Ground Zero all day on 9/11, right? What do they think this guy witnessed that no one else saw?

24th June 2009, 10:55 AM	#7
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 16,209	Originally Posted by RedIbis What exactly is wrong with questioning a claim in the thread title? Because it has no bearing on the topic at hand. Did Sonnenfeld actually use a full sentence? Technically, yes. So what? Does the OP's claim about the sentence structure of his statement have any impact on its content? Not in the slightest. At worst, it's an issue of imprecise language. The real issue here is how The Truth Movement is taking one man's incredibly vague remark and pretending it has any significance. It's a non-story, and the website linked is treating it like it has substance. You nitpicking the wordage of the thread title is nothing more than a smokescreen and a derail.
	Last edited by johnny karate; 24th June 2009 at 10:58 AM.

24th June 2009, 11:07 AM	#8
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 40 miles north of the border Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by RedIbis I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there? Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought. Is that better RI?

24th June 2009, 11:08 AM	#9
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 40 miles north of the border Posts: 20,848	BTW, I thought that Sonnefeld's big claim was that 911 was a LIHOP in which the admin knew the hijackers were coming but just allowed it to go forth.

24th June 2009, 11:11 AM	#10
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	Originally Posted by jaydeehess Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought. Is that better RI? He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either. His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

24th June 2009, 11:21 AM	#11
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 16,209	Originally Posted by RedIbis He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either. His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far. Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note.

24th June 2009, 11:28 AM	#12
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,397	Originally Posted by johnny karate Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note. If he was working for FEMA, if tapes exist FEMA would have them and a FOIA request should pry them loose. It's not nice to steal government property.
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,397	__________________ ------ Eric Pode of Croydon Chief Assistant to the Assistance Chief, Dept of Redundancy Dept.

24th June 2009, 11:34 AM	#13
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	Originally Posted by BigAl If he was working for FEMA, if tapes exist FEMA would have them and a FOIA request should pry them loose. It's not nice to steal government property. He's in Argentina.
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

24th June 2009, 11:36 AM	#14
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	Originally Posted by johnny karate Hopefully sometime this decade he'll get around to actually letting the world know what's on his tapes. I know how people can get busy and sometimes forget to present their evidence of a massive goverment conspiracy to commit mass murder. I often find it helpful to leave myself a post-it note. exactly. Funny that...he will claim the tapes contain something revolutionary, yet will he tell us what is on them??? I am calling bullcrap on this one...we will see. TAM

24th June 2009, 11:38 AM	#15
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	Originally Posted by RedIbis He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either. His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far. What more could be to the story that his accusers are providing? TAM

24th June 2009, 11:45 AM	#16
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	Let me guess...all the evidence of these attempts to harrass him, this sacking of his office, etc... is not available because they are covering it up...part of the grand conspiracy. The man may have been innocent of murder, that I have not read on beyond his comments in the article, but the rest is gonna require a LOT MORE than his "account" of things. We've all seen these type of allegations before...I haven't seen a single one turn out to be true with evidence to back it. TAM This stuff is old sure... http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...555425,00.html
	Last edited by T.A.M.; 24th June 2009 at 11:51 AM.

24th June 2009, 11:54 AM	#17
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	Interesting parts from the above article (in my last post), Quote: The charges against Sonnenfeld were dismissed just before trial in June 2002 after a note written by Nancy Sonnenfeld was found that supported Kurt Sonnenfeld's contention that she took her own life. New charges were filed in 2004, however, after two Denver jail inmates came forward to say Sonnenfeld had confessed to them during his time in custody. By then, Sonnenfeld had remarried and was living in Argentina. He has been fighting extradition ever since, describing the warrants against him as "a false pretext for other darker motives." That drew a sharp rebuke Tuesday from Chief Denver District Attorney Michelle Amico. "I have heard that nonsense from him . . . but then he has nothing to back it up," she said. An Argentine judge refused to extradite Sonnenfeld in 2005 because of concerns that he could face the death penalty. The U.S. Department of Justice appealed that decision, assuring the court that no death sentence would be sought, Amico said. The Justice Department has since been notified that the extradition is on hold while an asylum request is pending, a process that could take months or even years. In a series of recent e-mails to the Rocky Mountain News, Sonnenfeld said Argentina's highest court had rejected the appeal and had sent his case back to the presiding judge for ratification. Sonnenfeld did not bring up 9/11 when the initial murder case was pending against him or during a lengthy interview with the Rocky on the day he was released from jail. He also declined to specifically discuss the World Trade Center in a 12-page, single-spaced document he sent to the newspaper in late-night e-mail sessions Sunday and Monday. "You are asking me to antagonize the very people who, for whatever reason, desperately want me destroyed," Sonnenfeld wrote. "Frankly, I am afraid for the safety of my family. Please don't ask me about what information I have. This is not really the time or the forum." TAM

24th June 2009, 12:31 PM	#18
Bobert Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,126	Interesting that he would choose to move to a foreign country after his wifes alleged suicide. Of course this doesn't prove he actually murdered her but still an interesting decision. Too bad that they didn't have his cell tapped to obtain his confession in my former capacity we would pair up high profile murders with another cell mate and record, hoping for a confession. BIG SHOCKER to learn that he had a heroin habit.
Bobert Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,126

24th June 2009, 12:32 PM	#19
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 16,209	What a joke. So apparently a guy who has yet to reveal any incriminating information, and has repeatedly expressed his disinclination to do so, is being publicly threatened and framed in an elaborate set-up to ensure that he continues not talking. I'm not sure if the NWO experienced a lot of turn over after 9/11, but the clods running this operation certainly can't be the same precision black-ops superninjas who managed to secretly blow up a bunch of skyscrapers in broad daylight. Don't evil governments just assassinate people anymore?
	Last edited by johnny karate; 24th June 2009 at 12:38 PM.

24th June 2009, 12:46 PM	#20
Bobert Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,126	Maybe he is a shill who they had implanted into the truth movement but he turned so they murdered his wife to keep him quiet? I am just asking questions. MAYBE they tried to turn her against him but she refused so they faked her murder and gave her a PHAT CHECK and now she is living a wonderful life on an exotic island? I think the Coen Bros should make a movie about the truth movement a la Burn After Reading
Bobert Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,126	Last edited by Bobert; 24th June 2009 at 12:48 PM.

24th June 2009, 12:47 PM	#21
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 66,691	Originally Posted by J. Wellington Wimpy "Dick Cheney, draped in a handstitched, still-bloody skinsuit, a la Ed Gein, romping amongst the high-piled corpses and debris and cackling like an amphetamined Chupacabra." Best. Vice President. EVER.

24th June 2009, 02:12 PM	#23
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10,017	Quote: On September 11, 2001, the area known as “Ground Zero” was sealed from the public eye. Lie number 1. Quote: It was odd to me that all cameras were so fiercely prohibited within the secured perimeter of Ground Zero... Lie number 2. Quote: FEMA and several other federal agencies had already moved into position at their command center at Pier 92 on September 10th, one day before the attacks! Lie number 3. Quote: We are asked to believe that all four of the “indestructible” black boxes of the two jets that struck the twin towers were never found because they were completely vaporized Lie number 4. Quote: I have video that shows how curiously small the rubble pile was, and how the buildings to either side were untouched by Building Seven when it collapsed. Lie number 5. And that was just with a quick reading.
	Last edited by Alt+F4; 24th June 2009 at 02:48 PM.

24th June 2009, 02:44 PM	#24
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo. TAM

24th June 2009, 03:09 PM	#25
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 34,918	Originally Posted by BigAl http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html I see nothing interesting or ground-breaking in his interview. I guess we will just have to wait for 2010 for something magical to happen. Or maybe 2011.
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 34,918

24th June 2009, 03:33 PM	#26
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 40 miles north of the border Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by RedIbis I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there? Originally Posted by jaydeehess Kurt Sonnenfeld, FEMA videographer at GZ goes public, can't complete a thought. Is that better RI? Originally Posted by RedIbis He gave an extensive interview, I don't see much evidence of that either. His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far. You really did not answer my question RI. I asked if the thread title was that Sonnenfeld could not complete a thought , would that have been more to your liking? K.S. says that he saw things on 9/11 that indicated to him that the gov't had foreknowledge but he will not say what those things are. He says that items were removed from CIA offices before 9/11 but will not explain how, in filming the debris of 7 buildings he managed to discover that there were things missing from one office. He says a lot of things but fails to give the complete story on everything he says. He is a heroin addict (by his own admission) and there is evidence (though not enough to convict him) that he killed his wife. Is there a reason why anyone should find him credible?

24th June 2009, 03:37 PM	#27
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 40 miles north of the border Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by T.A.M. oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo. TAM The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy.

24th June 2009, 03:41 PM	#28
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	Originally Posted by jaydeehess You really did not answer my question RI. I asked if the thread title was that Sonnenfeld could not complete a thought , would that have been more to your liking? K.S. says that he saw things on 9/11 that indicated to him that the gov't had foreknowledge but he will not say what those things are. He says that items were removed from CIA offices before 9/11 but will not explain how, in filming the debris of 7 buildings he managed to discover that there were things missing from one office. He says a lot of things but fails to give the complete story on everything he says. He is a heroin addict (by his own admission) and there is evidence (though not enough to convict him) that he killed his wife. Is there a reason why anyone should find him credible? You're so conditioned to debunk that you failed to see that I've not defended his position even once. In fact I stated quite clearly, Quote: His story is straight out of a Ruppert book. Interesting, but I'm suspicious until he releases his videotapes. Until then there's more to the story than he or his accusers have led on to so far.
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

24th June 2009, 03:41 PM	#29
Edx Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,642	Originally Posted by jaydeehess The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy. Its like in 91 Mysteries which says its both an implosion and an explosion in the same damn film!
Edx Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,642

24th June 2009, 03:45 PM	#30
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	Originally Posted by jaydeehess The cognitive dissonance of the TM shines through when on the one hand they have the buildings falling in their own footprints making a small rubble pile, while also have columns ejected for hundreds of feet and impacting other buildings, and both of these mutually exclusive features are seen as evidence of a conspiracy. The size of the rubble pile would not be effected by "controlled" versus "uncontrolled" collapse, so it is a nonstarter, IMO, unless you are a Judy "space beam" Wood. TAM

24th June 2009, 03:48 PM	#31
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,397	Originally Posted by RedIbis I'll probably regret getting involved in this thread, but what is the incomplete sentence you see there? In my OP, I was making a reference to the ellipses in the quote. Early in the debunking business, I realized that whenever a Truth Quote has "..." in it, the meaning when the unedited quote is found very likely reverses the intended meaning or makes it somehow irrelevant. This google search will show that as of today, j911s has 141 ellipses on it's website. Some of them are innocent but lots of them are used to obscure words that contradict Truther claims. I've read many of them. "..." site:http://www.journalof911studies.com/ It was this search that changed my opinion of the "Truth Movement" from "people that are ignorant of lots of things" to "people that are intentional intellectual liars and frauds."
BigAl Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,397	__________________ ------ Eric Pode of Croydon Chief Assistant to the Assistance Chief, Dept of Redundancy Dept. Last edited by BigAl; 24th June 2009 at 03:49 PM.

24th June 2009, 05:05 PM	#32
Bobert Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,126	Originally Posted by RedIbis You're so conditioned to debunk that you failed to see that I've not defended his position even once. In fact I stated quite clearly, Redibus, Hmmmm take your pick a) be part of a group that is accused of being, "conditioned to debunk" b) be part of a group that goes on shooting sprees (2 that I know of so far), murders their own father, and may have murdered their own wife.
Bobert Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,126

24th June 2009, 05:22 PM	#33
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,778	Originally Posted by T.A.M. oooh...small rubble pile. We haven't seen those allegations since ACE baker and the space beams disintigrated all the steel line of Woo. Actually, I'm pretty sure bill smith was arguing that insanity just last month...
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,778

24th June 2009, 05:32 PM	#34
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	Originally Posted by Bobert Redibus, Hmmmm take your pick a) be part of a group that is accused of being, "conditioned to debunk" b) be part of a group that goes on shooting sprees (2 that I know of so far), murders their own father, and may have murdered their own wife. I try not to divide the human race into two distinct groups, but I'll try and understand you here. How does "a group" murder its own father? I know you guys don't like to pick on your own but if anyone was looking for a truly stundilious example of bifurcated logic, you won't find one better.
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

24th June 2009, 05:53 PM	#35
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,690	Originally Posted by RedIbis I try not to divide the human race into two distinct groups, but I'll try and understand you here. How does "a group" murder its own father? "Family"?
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

24th June 2009, 06:30 PM	#36
Athyrio Hipster Doofus Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Nutsack, FL Posts: 2,502	They call this guy a "whistleblower" yet he is not claiming to have been one of the conspirators. There hasn't been such a whistleblower yet. Give me one of the guys who "emptied" the vault or one of the guys that "trucked" the contents of it away - somebody who was issued a real whistle to blow, not somebody whistling their conspiracy theories through their teeth.
	__________________ Knowledge is good.... Emil Faber