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Old 30th April 2010, 04:07 AM   #4001
MaGZ
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think it is to show any third parties looking in how full of crap people like 9/11 Investigator really are. You are probably not going to get anywhere with a hard core bigot.They are too emotionally commited.
What is unusual about our investigator is how open he is about his hatred for the Jews. Most of his ilk make some effort to hide it,like the old "it's only the Zionist Jews I am against".
I prefer more honesty on the Jewish Question. The Jews should be criticized directly. This was a point made time and again with Dr. William Pierce.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of...erce_(part_two)
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Old 30th April 2010, 04:12 AM   #4002
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I have been following this thread since it started. A hundred pages of sickening crap from holocaust deniers, who clearly don't know when they are totally beaten. They make 9/11 truthers look reasonable by comparison.
How do you explain the fantastic growth in holocaust denial over the years?
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Old 30th April 2010, 04:48 AM   #4003
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
Never happened
Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
But I have to agree with TSR, killing these children was a big crime.
A little dissention in the ranks here. Is their forum down for maintenance?

Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
How do you explain the fantastic growth in holocaust denial over the years?
I'm slightly gratified that you refer to it as "denial" rather than some pseudo-legitimate BS like "revisionism". But to answer your question, I guess that anti-semites have naturally migrated to a movement which lends their views the weakest of illusions of acadmia.

Thank you. /leaves






...some bigoted holocaust denier...

Sorry, my microphone was still on.
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Old 30th April 2010, 02:03 PM   #4004
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
Never happened
.
Jäger was lying to his superiours, then?

Got any, you know, *proof* of this?
.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:01 PM   #4005
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
(the translation I gave was not false in the slightest - except I
.
added the bolded: "we are sending you plans to install the 30 ovens from Krema II and III at Mauthausen" which does not appear in the "original".
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:30 PM   #4006
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
.
added the bolded: "we are sending you plans to install the 30 ovens from Krema II and III at Mauthausen" which does not appear in the "original".
.
And that was not a translation I provided here, that was a quote taken from another bulletin board where I discussed this letter. It was a one line summary of the multiple page letter delivered an audience that mostly can understand german and not one of them complained that I had inaccurately summarized the letter. I find translating German laborious and since most of the participants in that discussion can read it themselves, a one line summary was sufficient.

I have proved the accuracy of that one line summary (given on a different bulletin board about 6 months ago), by providing a quote which discusses this letter from a book published by the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation - according to Mr Ellard, a hotbed of holocaust denial.

Such dishonesty on your part is breathtaking TSR. You understand my interest as to whether this is a deliberate debating tactic or simply a genuine reflection of your ignorance.
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Old 30th April 2010, 10:42 PM   #4007
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Can't argue with realizing the holocaust is a gigantic lie changing people.

I'd, for one, be very angry with quite a few relatives of mine who, apparently, decided to disappear and start life in some mysterious unknown country, despite those surviving relatives desperately looking for them for decades.

A real nasty bunch, those jokers.

By the way, I looked at google earth and to see if they can find some previously-unknown cities somewhere where all those millions of missing Jews got to to start their new life.

Found nothing.

There is only one explanation.

Google earth is controlled by the Jews and is part of the NWO propaganda.
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Old 30th April 2010, 11:25 PM   #4008
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Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
Can't argue with realizing the holocaust is a gigantic lie changing people.

I'd, for one, be very angry with quite a few relatives of mine who, apparently, decided to disappear and start life in some mysterious unknown country, despite those surviving relatives desperately looking for them for decades.

A real nasty bunch, those jokers.

By the way, I looked at google earth and to see if they can find some previously-unknown cities somewhere where all those millions of missing Jews got to to start their new life.

Found nothing.

There is only one explanation.

Google earth is controlled by the Jews and is part of the NWO propaganda.
Fair enough, tell us what was the last you heard of these missing relatives, where you think they died and the steps you have untertaken to try and find them.
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Old 1st May 2010, 08:27 AM   #4009
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
I have proved the accuracy of that one line summary (given on a different bulletin board about 6 months ago), by providing a quote which discusses this letter from a book published by the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation - according to Mr Ellard, a hotbed of holocaust denial.
.
No, you have asserted that the BMF supports your "translation" without actually *citing* the passage that does so.

And since Mr Ellard has made no such claim, I note yet another lie on your part.
.
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Old 1st May 2010, 01:36 PM   #4010
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another truly offensive post

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Fair enough, tell us what was the last you heard of these missing relatives, where you think they died and the steps you have untertaken to try and find them.
Wow. Just wow.
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Old 1st May 2010, 06:18 PM   #4011
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Wow. Just wow.
Are Jewish deaths somehow far more precious and sacred than gentile deaths? My family lost someone during WW2 and I can assure you if anyone is interested I can tell you about it. It's something that affected my parent's generation and my grandparent's, but TBH is really of little meaning to me.

For my part, I am quite willing to believe that a lot of Jews died during WW2, but I notice repeatedly that Jews can become very vague when confronted with a knowledgeable denier. I have yet to find online any Jew who claims to have lost relatives even the most cursory description - just as Skeptic has appears to run away here. And on the few occasions that they have, they provided details that were manifestly incorrect by the orthodox narrative.

One example went like this:
My family lived in Poland (not specified where), they were transported to Treblinka and gassed.
My response: Many thousands were transported to Treblinka as part of what was called a resettlement program, however how can you be sure that they were gassed and not transported onwards.
His response: That is where you are wrong. The Germans kept excellent records and I have been to Yad Vashem and seen the document where it says they were gassed.
My response: Can you be more specific, there are no lists of people who were gassed in Treblinka. Hypothetically there might be some lists of people who were deported there, but even those are very rare. Can you describe this document in more detail.
His response: You are just a lying hate-filled anti-semite.


You see my confusion: I didn't ask this person to lie about seeing a German document that stated his family was gassed, but he went and did so anyway. It seems to me that relocating relatives after WW2, especially considering all the emigration that took place, would be a massive and on-going process. Yet there doesn't seem to be much evidence of such activity. Hence I was hoping Skeptic, since he claimed that his family had been searching, would tell us what organisations there were that actually deal with this.

It doesn't really seem such an unreasonable request to me, and probably of general interest to many people.
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Old 1st May 2010, 06:26 PM   #4012
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
.
No, you have asserted that the BMF supports your "translation" without actually *citing* the passage that does so.
Actually a cite and provided the direct quote where they did so on post 3990. It wouldn't be that they support my "translation", rather I first saw the document and the universally accepted explanation that it refers to supposedly 30 muffles evacuated from Birkenau.

Quote:
And since Mr Ellard has made no such claim, I note yet another lie on your part.
.
mr Ellard did indeed makes such a claim, allow me to quote him in all his magnificent lack of knowledge again:

"2) If the camp was evacuated by the Germans on 17th January 1945 and captured on the 27th of January by the Russians how could Topf and Sons write a letter dated Feb 1945 selling the Krema II and III ovens? (You are not great at history are you?)

3) There were only 5 x 3 ovens ever at Krema II and III according to Pressac. So how could they sell more ovens than actually existed?

It seems to me that you have either a holocaust denier's forgery in your paws or Topf & Sons were not aware that Poland had fallen the previous month ( like the rest of Germany, when Army group centre collapsed during Bagration) "
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Old 1st May 2010, 06:34 PM   #4013
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
My response: Many thousands were transported to Treblinka as part of what was called a resettlement program, however how can you be sure that they were gassed and not transported onwards.
.
Because there is not a single record of *anyone* being resettled anywhere from Treblinka.

In fact, and in direct contradiction to your completely unsupported and unsupportable "resettlement" crap, Jews were shipped from Białystok *west* to Treblinka.

So prove me wrong: document a *single* shipment of Jews from Treblinka to anywhere further east.

And while you are at it, feel free to *cite* this conversation so we can see all of the context it is more than likely you have left out given your history of inventing conversations -- or are you prepared to apologize to Mr Ellard?
.
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Old 1st May 2010, 06:35 PM   #4014
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
How do you explain the fantastic growth in holocaust denial over the years?
I'd like to see some proof of this, as your assertions are somewhat lacking in credibility.

But even if there has been growth, Fundamantalist Christian churches are growing as well. There are a lot of gullible idiots in the world.
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Old 1st May 2010, 06:48 PM   #4015
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Actually a cite and provided the direct quote where they did so on post 3990. It wouldn't be that they support my "translation", rather I first saw the document and the universally accepted explanation that it refers to supposedly 30 muffles evacuated from Birkenau.
.
Oh, I see: you are pretending to unaware of what a citation is, allow me to help: according to the standard used by historians, the CMOS, a citation includes such things as the page number.

Try again.

Oh, and you have yet to explain why Topf would be selling parts that they did not own at the time, from a camp that had already been liberated (or are you pretending that the Krema were only being leased and that the Soviets were going to allow a repossession?)
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
mr Ellard did indeed makes such a claim, allow me to quote him in all his magnificent lack of knowledge again:

"2) If the camp was evacuated by the Germans on 17th January 1945 and captured on the 27th of January by the Russians how could Topf and Sons write a letter dated Feb 1945 selling the Krema II and III ovens? (You are not great at history are you?)

3) There were only 5 x 3 ovens ever at Krema II and III according to Pressac. So how could they sell more ovens than actually existed?

It seems to me that you have either a holocaust denier's forgery in your paws or Topf & Sons were not aware that Poland had fallen the previous month ( like the rest of Germany, when Army group centre collapsed during Bagration) "
.
And where in this exerpt does Mr. Ellard assert that the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation is "a hotbed of holocaust denial?"

Tell me, bunny: what is it called when you say something you know isn't so?
.

Last edited by TSR; 1st May 2010 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 1st May 2010, 10:45 PM   #4016
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
.
Because there is not a single record of *anyone* being resettled anywhere from Treblinka.

In fact, and in direct contradiction to your completely unsupported and unsupportable "resettlement" crap, Jews were shipped from Białystok *west* to Treblinka.

So prove me wrong: document a *single* shipment of Jews from Treblinka to anywhere further east.
.
Which makes it all the more surprising that this person felt the need to lie about seeing a document in Yad Vashem saying his family had been gassed.

Why not just say the truth? "They were in such and such ghetto. I know that this ghetto was emptied by being shipped to Treblinka on these dates. We have never heard of them since and there have been numerous books, studies and trials about what went on in Treblinka, therefore I am certain my relatives are dead." It would be utterly reasonable, it seems to be me.

But its a repeating pattern, whenever you ask for details, they always shy away.

For my part, I am interested in what steps Jewish families took after the war to locate missing relatives. I was hoping Skeptic might tell us.
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Old 1st May 2010, 10:52 PM   #4017
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
.
Oh, I see: you are pretending to unaware of what a citation is, allow me to help: according to the standard used by historians, the CMOS, a citation includes such things as the page number.
http://www.topfundsoehne.de/download...appe_ef_en.pdf
Quote:
Accompanying book

The Engineers of the "Final Solution".Topf & Sons - Builders of the Auschwitz Ovens.
Accompanying book on behalf of the Buchenwald and Mittelbau-Dora Memorials Foundation
published by Volkhard Knigge in collaboration with Annegret Schüle and Rikola-Gunnar Lüttgenau and
with the assistance of Johanna Wensch and Friedemann Rincke,
70 ill., ISBN 3-935598-10-6, 7,90 Euro

The book can be ordered on-line: www.topfundsoehne.de
Knock yourself out.

Quote:

Oh, and you have yet to explain why Topf would be selling parts that they did not own at the time, from a camp that had already been liberated (or are you pretending that the Krema were only being leased and that the Soviets were going to allow a repossession?)
.
So you think the letter is a forgery or do you think all the experts have got it wrong in saying it was about the 30 muffles of Krema II and III?

Quote:
.
And where in this exerpt does Mr. Ellard assert that the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation is "a hotbed of holocaust denial?"
When he suggested I was using a document forged by holocaust deniers.
Quote:
Tell me, bunny: what is it called when you say something you know isn't so?
.
If you are Goy, its called lying
If you are Jewish, its called midrash
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Old 1st May 2010, 11:14 PM   #4018
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Which makes it all the more surprising that this person felt the need to lie about seeing a document in Yad Vashem saying his family had been gassed.
.
Is there a reason other than the obvious why you won't link to this discussion so we can see if this person actually made the claim you attribute to them? It has been demonstrated that you are not above lying about such things...
.
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Old 1st May 2010, 11:26 PM   #4019
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
.
Is there a reason other than the obvious why you won't link to this discussion so we can see if this person actually made the claim you attribute to them? It has been demonstrated that you are not above lying about such things...
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No just the obvious reason, that this particular bulletin board doesn't archive its discussion for more than about 6 months.

Although someone there was kind enough to inform me once, that all my posts were engraved on gold plates and kept in the basement of the Smithsonian.

It costs an extra 2 dollars to see them, but well worth the expense.
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Old 1st May 2010, 11:34 PM   #4020
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
.
Funny, that PDF returns zero matches for the phrase "important components of the extermination," just to choose a distinctive combo at random.

It *does* however, in a search for "1945" state
Quote:
In view of the advancing Red Army, the crematoria there had been blown up in January 1945 in an effort to conceal evidence.
.
...which makes your claim even less likely to accurate.
.
Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
So you think the letter is a forgery or do you think all the experts have got it wrong in saying it was about the 30 muffles of Krema II and III?
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You have yet to actually *cite* this letter, or any experts who hold that opinion.
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
When he suggested I was using a document forged by holocaust deniers.
.
Even if all you claim regarding this letter and "the experts'" opinion thereof turns out being accurate, being taken in by a forgery would not make them a "hotbed of holocaust denial" and no reasonable person would make that assumption. One would have to assume that Mr. Ellard meant that they were aware that it was a forgery and were still actively promoting the letter -- and given that you *still* have not substantiated that this letter even exists ...

But let's run with this while you rig up a citation which actually supports your claims: what is *your* explanation for the fact that these muffles were not Topf's to sell, and that they were behind "enemy" lines as of the date the letter was supposed to have been written?
.
Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
If you are Goy, its called lying
If you are Jewish, its called midrash
.
No, it would be called lying when *anyone* does it -- too bad you're the only so engaged in this thread...
.

Last edited by TSR; 1st May 2010 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 1st May 2010, 11:36 PM   #4021
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
No just the obvious reason, that this particular bulletin board doesn't archive its discussion for more than about 6 months.
.
And that bulletin board would be ... ?

Just to see if anyone there (perhaps your correspondant?) will confirm your story.

Not that I don't believe you, necessarily -- just that there is no Earthly reason why I should...
.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 09:15 AM   #4022
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Are Jewish deaths somehow far more precious and sacred than gentile deaths?
No. This is called a non-sequitur. I think that the rest of your lies, half truths and unsourced allegations have been addressed well enough since this post.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 04:32 PM   #4023
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post

PS. Mr Ellard, regarding SMERSH.....google is your friend before making an idiot of yourself online.
Smersh is was an anti spy organisation. (Smersh is the russian acronym for "Death to spies") It had nothing to do with holocaust investigations. Reading is your friend before making an idiot of yourself on the internet.

Last edited by Matthew Ellard; 2nd May 2010 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 04:48 PM   #4024
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Did anyone notice that Whitney Harris died last week? Harris was the prosecutor who interrogated Rudolf Hoess for three days in April 1946. He discusses this in his book Tyranny on Trial: The evidence at Nuremberg"

Holocaust deniers claim that british guards kept Hoess awake for three day to force him to confess to the crimes at Auschwitz. Sadly for holocaust deniers, Harris was American and became the national director of the USA Bar association and was never a private in the British army. Facts don't really seem to bother holocaust deniers when they can make stuff up.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 04:55 PM   #4025
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Smersh is was an anti spy organisation. (Smersh is the russian acronym for "Death to spies") It had nothing to do with holocaust investigations. Reading is your friend before making an idiot of yourself on the internet.
Mr Ellard juts out his jaw and says "Hit me"
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...ations-of.html
Quote:
In March of 1946 the Soviet counterintelligence agency SMERSH arrested four men directly responsible for the ovens and gas chambers of Auschwitz. They were engineers Kurt Pruefer, Karl Schultze, Fritz Sander and Gustav Braun, employees of "Topf und Soehne", the German firm specializing in construction of crematoria. All of them were interrogated at length. Sander soon died, and the rest were sentenced in 1948 to 25 years of labor camps. Pruefer died in 1952, Schultze and Braun were amnestied in 1955 and deported to East Germany.
Can I assume that you concede you just made an idiot of yourself?
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Old 2nd May 2010, 05:13 PM   #4026
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
.
Funny, that PDF returns zero matches for the phrase "important components of the extermination," just to choose a distinctive combo at random.

It *does* however, in a search for "1945" state
Quote:
In view of the advancing Red Army, the crematoria there had been blown up in January 1945 in an effort to conceal evidence.
.
...which makes your claim even less likely to accurate.
.

.
You have yet to actually *cite* this letter, or any experts who hold that opinion.
.

.
Even if all you claim regarding this letter and "the experts'" opinion thereof turns out being accurate, being taken in by a forgery would not make them a "hotbed of holocaust denial" and no reasonable person would make that assumption. One would have to assume that Mr. Ellard meant that they were aware that it was a forgery and were still actively promoting the letter -- and given that you *still* have not substantiated that this letter even exists ...

But let's run with this while you rig up a citation which actually supports your claims: what is *your* explanation for the fact that these muffles were not Topf's to sell, and that they were behind "enemy" lines as of the date the letter was supposed to have been written?
.


.
No, it would be called lying when *anyone* does it -- too bad you're the only so engaged in this thread...
.
.
The bunny is strangely silent on these points today -- along with the address of the forum on which he supposedly had the Treblinka conversation...

How utterly ... expected.
.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 05:22 PM   #4027
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Mr Ellard juts out his jaw and says "Hit me"
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...ations-of.html


Can I assume that you concede you just made an idiot of yourself?
Nice try but you obviously cannot read. Smersh means "death to spies" and is "the counter-intelligence departments in the Soviet Army formed in late 1942" These departments of the NKVD, when still controlled by the GRU were given the popular nickname SMERSH "death to spies". The GRU did not have any department called "death to spies" as it is just a nick name. Ian Fleming used this nick name in his early books.

The arrests were by the NKVD. To say some one was arested by SMERSH is like saying they were arrested by "american anti spy teams". The actual sub divisions who did these activities are quite detailed in the KGB's Mitrokhin archives.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrokhin_Archive
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Old 2nd May 2010, 06:54 PM   #4028
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Nice try but you obviously cannot read. Smersh means "death to spies" and is "the counter-intelligence departments in the Soviet Army formed in late 1942" These departments of the NKVD, when still controlled by the GRU were given the popular nickname SMERSH "death to spies". The GRU did not have any department called "death to spies" as it is just a nick name. Ian Fleming used this nick name in his early books.

The arrests were by the NKVD. To say some one was arested by SMERSH is like saying they were arrested by "american anti spy teams". The actual sub divisions who did these activities are quite detailed in the KGB's Mitrokhin archives.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrokhin_Archive
Thank you, Mr Ellard, for jamming your foot further down your throat
What do you make of this:
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...Prufer&f=false
Gerald Fleming: Hitler and the Final Solution page 209
Quote:
On 28 March 1946, by order of Lt General Selenin, chief of the USSR's main Department of SMERSH in Germany, the following decision was made: Order regarding ther termination of the investigation, as a result of the death of the accused. On 27 March, Captain Kasazev had acquainted himself with the files of Pruefer, Schultze and Sander and noted that Fritz Sander, taken into SMERSH custody on 9 March 1946, had been brought into the main administration of SMERSH in Germany on 25 March
Say those 3 little words I want to hear, Mr Ellard. Say "I was wrong."

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Old 2nd May 2010, 07:59 PM   #4029
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The bunny is still running from zir knowingly false statements...
.

Last edited by TSR; 2nd May 2010 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 08:40 PM   #4030
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Thank you, Mr Ellard, for jamming your foot further down your throat
What do you make of this:

Here is your quote.. "on the 28th of March 1946, by order of Lt Selenin, Chief of the USSR's main department of Smersh in Germany, the following decisions were made". from Hitler and the Final Solution, by Gerald Fleming.

There is no department called Smersh and never was. There is no Russian document that refers to any department in the NKVD called Smersh. "death to spies" The Russian General in charge of NKVD/MVD counter intelligence forces in Germany from 4/7/1945 to 22/4/1947 was actually Ivan Alexadrovich.Serov. (who went on to fame in Hungary) Pytor.W Selenin was a normal Lt General officer in the GRU ( Russian military intelligence) interviewing Germans from 17/12/1945 to 1/4/1947. This is detailed in the Mitrokhin Archives which are available to purchase. However you can check the details in Anatomie der Parteizentrale: die KPD/SED auf dem Weg zur Macht By Manfred Wilke, 1998 for details.

The "buzz term" Smersh came from a russian expression by Russian POWs who were sent to forced labour camps by Stalin and pops up in books by English people who did Russian prisoner interviews.

When google says SMERSH ended in 1946 they mean the NKGB was separated from the GRU in 1946 after briefly being renamed the NVD in March 1946. Smersh is just a collective name for anti-spy activities in Russian.

Do you think I'm wrong? Well please feel free to find me any russian, German or English document which states exactly what subdivision of the NKVD or MVD was called SMERSH "death to spies"?

I'll just wait until you can name the exact division called SMERSH shall I?


Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Say those 3 little words I want to hear, Mr Ellard. Say "I was wrong."
No, I'm going to say that trawling Google doesn't seem to be helping you and now you have to do some real research to back up your claim that SMERSH is a real entity and not just a buzz phrase.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 08:53 PM   #4031
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Can I assume that you concede you just made an idiot of yourself?
Well it seem to me that your problems are growing....

1) If the camp was evacuated by the Germans on 17th January 1945 and captured on the 27th of January by the Russians how could Topf and Sons write a letter dated Feb 1945 selling the Krema II and III ovens?

Please explain

2) What exact subdivision or indeed any division of the NKVD was called SMERSH?

Please explain.

3) Where on earth does the following translation say anything about Krema II & III as you claim?

Neubau Krematorium (Sonderanlage).

In der Anlage übersenden wir Ihnen durch unseren Herrn Polier Koch eine Zeichnung D 61 654. Aus dieser Zeichnung wollie Sie die Hälfte der Gesamtanlage ersehen.
Das mittlere Hauptgebäude enthält zweimal 5 stück Dreimuffel-Einäscherungs-öfen, die an 2 Stück dreiröhrigen Schornsteinen angeschlossen sind. Der Mittelbau erhält nach der Aussenseite den Raum für die Aufsichtspersonen. Auf der gegenüberliegenden Seite liegt der Kohlenraum


Please explain
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Old 2nd May 2010, 09:04 PM   #4032
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Reading is your friend before making an idiot of yourself on the internet.
Too late.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 09:37 PM   #4033
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Here is your quote.. "on the 28th of March 1946, by order of Lt Selenin, Chief of the USSR's main department of Smersh in Germany, the following decisions were made". from Hitler and the Final Solution, by Gerald Fleming.

There is no department called Smersh and never was. There is no Russian document that refers to any department in the NKVD called Smersh. "death to spies" The Russian General in charge of NKVD/MVD counter intelligence forces in Germany from 4/7/1945 to 22/4/1947 was actually Ivan Alexadrovich.Serov. (who went on to fame in Hungary) Pytor.W Selenin was a normal Lt General officer in the GRU ( Russian military intelligence) interviewing Germans from 17/12/1945 to 1/4/1947. This is detailed in the Mitrokhin Archives which are available to purchase. However you can check the details in Anatomie der Parteizentrale: die KPD/SED auf dem Weg zur Macht By Manfred Wilke, 1998 for details.

The "buzz term" Smersh came from a russian expression by Russian POWs who were sent to forced labour camps by Stalin and pops up in books by English people who did Russian prisoner interviews.

When google says SMERSH ended in 1946 they mean the NKGB was separated from the GRU in 1946 after briefly being renamed the NVD in March 1946. Smersh is just a collective name for anti-spy activities in Russian.

Do you think I'm wrong? Well please feel free to find me any russian, German or English document which states exactly what subdivision of the NKVD or MVD was called SMERSH "death to spies"?

I'll just wait until you can name the exact division called SMERSH shall I?




No, I'm going to say that trawling Google doesn't seem to be helping you and now you have to do some real research to back up your claim that SMERSH is a real entity and not just a buzz phrase.
Dunno, it seems to have its own wikipedia and you will excuse me I take Gerald Fleming, author of Hitler and the Final Solution, as a greater authority than you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH

Quote:
As the requirements of the war expanded and the Soviet armies began their conquest of previously occupied German territory, the complexities of counter-espionage, counter-insurgency, and occupation were sufficiently large to encourage Stalin to consolidate all of SMERSH under his direct control. On April 15, 1943, CI was again transferred to the People's Commissariats of Defense (NKO) and the Navy (NKF), becoming SMERSH within NKO. The full name of the head entity was Главное управление контрразведки СМЕРШ Народного комиссариата обороны СССР, or USSR People's Commissariat of Defense Chief Counterintelligence Directorate "SMERSH".
How much further do you intend to push this foot of yours down your throat?
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Old 2nd May 2010, 09:50 PM   #4034
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
How much further do you intend to push this foot of yours down your throat?
.
My guess? Not as far as you will from your deliberate untruths in this thread.

What is it called when you say something you know it isn't so, bunny?
.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 09:59 PM   #4035
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Dunno, it seems to have its own wikipedia and you will excuse me I take Gerald Fleming, author of Hitler and the Final Solution, as a greater authority than you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH

That's fine. The limit of your "research skills" is Wikipedia. (We already knew that). However you haven't answered my question. So what is the exact division or subdivision of the NKVD called SMERSH? According to Wikipedia it is the entire GRU counter intelligence division of the NKVD which is actually called the "GRU" or Glavnoye Razvedyvatel'noye Upravleniye (in Russian) andf indeed is still called the GRU.

So I'm waiting...What is the exact department? ( It doesn't exist)


Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
How much further do you intend to push this foot of yours down your throat?
Well you haven't done anything yet. I keep catching out your fabrications and you keep avoiding the questions. Let us try again

1) If the camp was evacuated by the Germans on 17th January 1945 and captured on the 27th of January by the Russians how could Topf and Sons write a letter dated Feb 1945 selling the Krema II and III ovens?

Please explain


2) What exact subdivision or indeed any division of the NKVD was called SMERSH?

Please explain.


3) Where on earth does the following translation say anything about Krema II & III as you claim?

Neubau Krematorium (Sonderanlage).

In der Anlage übersenden wir Ihnen durch unseren Herrn Polier Koch eine Zeichnung D 61 654. Aus dieser Zeichnung wollie Sie die Hälfte der Gesamtanlage ersehen.
Das mittlere Hauptgebäude enthält zweimal 5 stück Dreimuffel-Einäscherungs-öfen, die an 2 Stück dreiröhrigen Schornsteinen angeschlossen sind. Der Mittelbau erhält nach der Aussenseite den Raum für die Aufsichtspersonen. Auf der gegenüberliegenden Seite liegt der Kohlenraum

Please explain

4) Are you a Sth Australian?
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Old 2nd May 2010, 10:16 PM   #4036
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
And that bulletin board would be ... ?
http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/245...l#reply-245649

You will see Little Grey Bunnies fantastic claim "The reason why everyone says the Krema II and III (gas chambers) looked like bakeries is because they were bakeries" in his opening bunny post.

However of more interest to JREF members may be this comment from Little Grey Bunny on the RODOH Holocaust Denial forum where he states "Besides i am getting too much entertainment playing rope-a-dope over at JREF. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=172517
so they are fair game to wind up as much as possible

You can read Little Grey Rabbits "right" to fib to JREF members here http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10626/t/Roll-Call.html?page=3

Last edited by Matthew Ellard; 2nd May 2010 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 3rd May 2010, 12:52 AM   #4037
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post

You can read Little Grey Rabbits "right" to fib to JREF members here http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10626/t/Roll-Call.html?page=3
Oh the chutzpah of Mr Ellard saying I believe in a "right to fib". Exactly where in this quote do I say I have a "right to fib"?
Quote:
Besides i am getting too much entertainment playing rope-a-dope over at JREF.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=172517
I mean if they genuinely believed in Elie Wiesel I might have some sympathy for them, but the dishonest way they argue shows they clearly don't, so they are fair game to wind up as much as possible. I seriously don't understand the psychology of defending something you know is false.

I only made the post about the Krematoria-Bakeries so I could give it a Stundie nomination. I trust, if it makes the cut, Krema Denial will get Dr Terry's vote.
and Mr Ellard has the mendacious gall to say the I claim a right to fib?

Have you no shame, Mr Ellard, have you no shame?tr

I repeat: I seriously don't understand the psychology of defending something you know is false. But Mr Ellard, I believe you do, perhaps you can explain it to me?
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Old 3rd May 2010, 01:10 AM   #4038
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
I repeat: I seriously don't understand the psychology of defending something you know is false. But Mr Ellard, I believe you do, perhaps you can explain it to me?
Well that's easy. You are a holocaust denier who makes up facts in support of the holocaust denial cult. Nick Terry pulled your arguments apart on the Rodoh forum so you are repeating your lies here, as you say, getting too much entertainment playing rope-a-dope over at JREF,where we are fair game to wind up as much as possible

Now that I have answered your question how are you going on my three simple questions to your fibs on this forum? You do have answers? Don't you?

May I point out how you have gone from claiming Krema II & II were "really bakeries" on that forum to "where are the missing muffles from Krem II & III" on this forum which sort of indicates your conviction to any story that assists holocaust denial, no matter what it is.

Last edited by Matthew Ellard; 3rd May 2010 at 01:17 AM. Reason: english spelling
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Old 3rd May 2010, 01:28 AM   #4039
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I am playing rope-a-dope with you too, Mr Ellard.

You have in a very short space in time claimed there was no organisation called SMERSH, said that a letter published by the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation was a forgery and watched you hilariously ignorant of German claim that I had falsely translated something.

On top of that you energized me into posting all the Elie Wiesel documents I have in the thread you linked to.

Now please explain the psychology of why you loudly, albeit foolishly, defend something you know is false? It is honestly a mystery to me.

Last edited by little grey rabbit; 3rd May 2010 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 3rd May 2010, 03:58 AM   #4040
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I imagine it's like trying to argue with dedicated flat-earthers, continuing to argue with them gives them a sense that they have a valid point, discontinue an argument with them and they declare victory, even though they clearly don't have the truth on their side.

Hey, bunny, think it's time to declare your victory? I know it's premature, but it's inevitable that you will so you might as well, so we can take a nice break before the next bit of hateful Holocaust denial comes along.
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