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Old 13th July 2009, 07:05 PM   #41
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I wonder why Eichmann, on trial for his life, never thought of pretending that the genocide never occurred. Why did he claim that he had just followed orders if he wasn't guilty of anything. Must have slipped his mind.
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Old 13th July 2009, 09:41 PM   #42
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Prove to me that Holland exists. The whole concept seems ridiculous. Windmills and wooden shoes? Signs for a red-light district, and hash smoking in the bars? Absurd! Yes, I was there in my college days, but it could have been a movie set that was placed there just to fool me.

So I deny completely this absurd farce of Holland. For that matter, all of Europe seems to be an Illuminati plot to convince us that there are whole countries that are more liberal than the Democrats in Congress. Hogwash! I know that the world ends about 15 blocks from where I live, and after that the movie just repeats with a bit of variation.

And don't get me started on the World Trade Center. Twin towers 110-stories high? Never happen; they'd melt at the top. Yeah, melt. You don't really think the sun is 93 million miles away, do you?
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Old 13th July 2009, 09:48 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Establish that guilt for me, here for everybody to see. Come on then, don't hide behind sophistry. Or admit that you cannot prove it, and that is precisely the case.
Here are roughly 19,000 pieces of evidence

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php...&text=overview

And the 42 volumes of trial transcripts

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_L...criminals.html

Please feel free to refute this body of work - I dont have to prove anything, that was done 60 years ago. You unfortunately have the burdon of proof squarely at your feet
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Old 13th July 2009, 10:08 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
Please feel free to refute this body of work - I dont have to prove anything, that was done 60 years ago. You unfortunately have the burdon of proof squarely at your feet

I have the feeling the over/under on the refutation is not favourable...
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:24 AM   #45
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Quote:
February 14, 1942: The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.

March 27, 1942: The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.
-Goebbels' diary
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:38 AM   #46
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Doesnt matter if it was 1 million or 6 million or 12 million.
it doesnt matter if they was gassed or shot.
It doesnt matter if they were jews or roma , they are Human beeings.

not like you.
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Old 14th July 2009, 06:10 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I have more than in your worst nightmares. But I am not going to take the bait. I'll repeat:

Somebody is innocent until proven guilty.
... except the Nazis, who are innocent even after proven guilty.
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Old 14th July 2009, 07:09 AM   #48
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didnt the Nazis report that Lithuania was "Judenrein"? did they accomplish this by sending der Juden to Disneyland?

its one thing to debate the exact number of Jewish Holocaust deaths. it is between 4.5 million and 7 million.

but to say that the Holocaust didn't happen or that only 200,000 died..is the height of absurdity.
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Old 14th July 2009, 07:25 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
didnt the Nazis report that Lithuania was "Judenrein"? did they accomplish this by sending der Juden to Disneyland?

its one thing to debate the exact number of Jewish Holocaust deaths. it is between 4.5 million and 7 million.

but to say that the Holocaust didn't happen or that only 200,000 died..is the height of absurdity.
It certainly is (completely absurd), but for a forum based on skeptical analysis and critical thinking, particularly on a subforum where history is regularly discussed, I find a lot of the replies here to be precisely the kind of overly-emotional, venomous, and anger-addled invective that these revisionist trolls are fishing for in the first place.

Seriously, if someone pops up with this nonsense, then if you feel up to it have them go through the 66 Questions gamut first and foremost. More often than not, the intellectual dishonesty in their trolling will shine through and they no longer have to be taken seriously (or ignored if you want). If they want to bring up nonsense pieces of paper like the one linked in the image earlier-- which dates to the 1970's and is not a full accounting of all who died, despite what the revisionists want to clip-n-quote as their "evidence"-- then take apart the veracity of their supposed evidence. If one feels up to the task, take them through the (literally) reams of evidence (German translation required), particularly volumes 28 through 42 (the evidence and evidential documents).

I'll be honest: nine out of ten times the revisionist dips deeply into the realm of intellectual dishonesty within the first few presented (and typically pre-packaged) "arguments" that they make, and once that happens they dig their own hole.
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Old 14th July 2009, 07:59 AM   #50
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Tomwaits asks: "What would you accept as proof? "

Well, the usual holocaust denier would accept, say, a video of someone who looks just like Hitler who was pushing the button to release the gas, who then identifies him or herself as Hitler by name, date of birth, grandma's middle name, etc., and then the camera shifts so that we see someone inside the gas chamber choking, then lying still, and then Hitler swabs the inside of his own cheek with a q-tip and puts the contents into a bottle and then does the same for the corpse and then puts the corpse into an oven and switches it on and we watch the body burn to ashes through a glass door in the oven. Then Hitler signs a confession and puts all the evidence into a time capsule and tells us where we can find it.

And then we go and find the time capsule and test the DNA and it's Hitler's or a close relative and the gassee is a Jewish person and the signature on the confession checks out as Hitler's and ...

... but wait! It's all fake. The 'Jewish person' was an actor who did a good job of faking choking to death. The corpse was real, but brought in and switched for the live person while 'Hitler' was swabbing his cheek. 'Hitler' was a actor, too, and the DNA sample was switched with that of a descendant of Hitler's sister, who was paid to donate it and keep his mouth shut. The signature was a fake, generated by a master-forger who got hooker-visitation rights in return for the signature, and the documents were switched when the camera was on the oven door.

So, no, tomwaits, that's no good. Oh, and by the way, the world will end on July 15, 2009. And the south won the civil war. And the Republicans didn't screw up: George W. was a crypto-Communist ringer whose assignment was to discredit the Repub's and make them look like fools and greedy idiots who think you can wage hi-tech war without raising taxes to pay for it.

Oh, and by the way. I don't think six million died. That's a calculation based on demographics. The Nazis didn't keep documentation of all the killing. Towards the end, they just didn't have time to do the paperwork.

Last edited by babbits; 14th July 2009 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 14th July 2009, 08:24 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
didnt the Nazis report that Lithuania was "Judenrein"? did they accomplish this by sending der Juden to Disneyland?

its one thing to debate the exact number of Jewish Holocaust deaths. it is between 4.5 million and 7 million.

but to say that the Holocaust didn't happen or that only 200,000 died..is the height of absurdity.
No, Walt Disney wasn't the biggest fan of the Jews.

The biggest injustice is that some people forget about all of the non-Jews that died in the camps. I think it was roughly another 5 million people.
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Old 14th July 2009, 08:27 AM   #52
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This is what 9-11 investigator wants, to continue this argument, having made it completely circular. There is only one piece of evidence that will be accepted which is autopsies and this cannot be provided, if the rules were different and other evidence was accepted then we enter an argument that can be won. Revisionist history can be used to prove or disprove anything. Once the history is reported and time moves on 60 years it becomes easier and easier for a circular argument like this to be used by someone with an agenda like 9-11 investigator to make statements about horrific crimes. You take far too much pleasure from this argument 9-11 it's one thing to make claims about the past it's another to take enjoyment from the fact that people can't win a circular argument about something so disgusting. The only reason autopsies are the only evidence you require is because you know no-one will be able to turn round and produce one. That's a debating style with so many holes it isn't funny. Also please do not try and turn this argument into one that involves European law v American law, as someone from this side of the Atlantic, I completely reject that you are representing European law in any way, in many places in Europe it is a completely illegal crime to deny the Holocaust in any way, even calling it the Bunnycaust is about as gross as it comes. Plus the far right is on the increase in Europe far more than America, something that sickens me to my stomach, and wherever we see the BNP or the far right in other countries they should be reviled and rejected. Oh for time machines to prove all this to you and dump you back with the Nazis so you could really experience the period first hand. So you don't believe it happened, that doesn't change anything. What sickness do you have that means you enjoy this so much?
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Old 14th July 2009, 09:50 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by lightfire22000 View Post
The biggest injustice is that some people forget about all of the non-Jews that died in the camps. I think it was roughly another 5 million people.
That's actually the real horror of it all. So many people were killed with such dispassionate lack of any regard to humanity (and plenty of passionate hate in some circles), that someone could spend their whole lives trying to track down every case involved in the massive killings and still barely make a dent in the numbers. The numbers themselves even seem unreal-- millions of people, at least 10 or 11 million total, were non-combatant victims. Even in these days where 'million' has been replaced by 'billion' and 'trillion' as the 'unreal' number, the number of deaths is staggering.
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Old 14th July 2009, 10:05 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
In Europe we hold the view that somebody is innocent until proven guilty
Are you quite sure about that? Surely you meant "in European countries that use the adversarial system...", yes?

Quote:
The goal of both the adversarial system and the inquisitorial system is to find the truth. But the adversarial system seeks the truth by pitting the parties against each other in the hope that competition will reveal it, whereas the inquisitorial system seeks the truth by questioning those most familiar with the events in dispute. The adversarial system places a premium on the individual rights of the accused, whereas the inquisitorial system places the rights of the accused secondary to the search for truth.
http://law.jrank.org/pages/7663/Inqu...al-System.html
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Old 14th July 2009, 10:38 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by GreNME View Post
...

I'll be honest: nine out of ten times the revisionist dips deeply into the realm of intellectual dishonesty within the first few presented (and typically pre-packaged) "arguments" that they make, and once that happens they dig their own hole.
.
The theological term "invincible ignorance" can be applied in a modified version to describe the Holocaust denier.
Invincible -stupidity-!
As such, not worth the time to even discuss the subject with those self-proclaimed retards.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:05 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Justin39640 View Post
maybe you should look into it a bit more
Of course I should and I will after 9/11 is solved.

Quote:
what about the other 5 million they executed that werent jewish?
when they shot people in the streets, death marches, etc
There were tens of millions people killed on all sides.

Quote:
id say that you need to prove that a single jew (or political prisoner, gypsy, etc) wasnt killed and how it was fabricated - in your opinion
That's easy then: nobody claims that the icon of the holocaust, Anne Frank, was killed. Nor was her sister or her father. The Germans even tried their best to save him in their hospital. That's 3 for you.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:06 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by FineWine View Post
Nobody thinks that Anne Frank was gassed.
Very good, FineWine, she was not. She died from typhus like most inmates who died in the camps.

But how many people know that?

So why is it that of all persons they choose her as the icon of the holocaust, where she was killed as a consequence of the war effort of the Allies. A good laywer could defend the case that she was (indirectly and unintentionally) killed by the Allies rather than the Germans. Her sister, same story. Her father, Otto Frank, was even treated in a hospital and survived the war and the camps. But that doesn't match at all with the conventional horror explanation of what happened in the camps.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:12 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Ah, look, the Hitler Fanboy
Quote, link, proof?

Zero, nada. The usual slander.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:13 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by tomwaits View Post
"What would you accept as proof?" is the question that Michael Shermer asks deniers in his book, and it is a good one. The point is that holocaust deniers will never accept any proof...in their mind it's never good enough, which helps explain the bizarre chant "No holes, no Holocaust!" Their beliefs are non-falsifiable.
I gave you a template: Katyn Forest. But you choose to ignore it.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:13 AM   #60
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Notice how carefully the evil Holocaust-denier steps around the elephant in the parlor. Adolf Eichmann, on trial for his life, never thought to deny the reality that formed the basis for the charges against him.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:15 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by FineWine View Post
Performing autopsies on the ashes raked out of crematoria is bit tricky.
Fair enough. But that doesn't discharge you or the Nuremberg judges of the necessity to prove the crime.

Oh yes and torture doesn't count. Neither with Auschwitz commandant Hoess nor with KSM.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:20 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am in charge of the US Government???
Gee, and I am only a GS 11. Wow, am I underpaid.
Not you but your fellow tribesmen.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

Dutch documentary from leftwing broadcast organisation VPRO about the Israel Lobby that rules the US:

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?doc...el+lobby&hl=nl
English spoken. Got worldwide acclaim.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:22 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Perhaps you can convince yourself of this by typing it out, but I can promise that nobody else here is going to buy your evil nonsense.
Not very likely on a debunker forum, indeed.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:28 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by FineWine View Post
It has been established that the Nazi death machine was nothing if not efficient. Prisoners were worked to death (those too sick or weak to work were culled early on), gassed, and their bodies were burned. The perpetrators were not eager to leave behind documentation or physical evidence. Anecdotal evidence, of course, gets hand-waved away by your side, but the experience of one of my best friends, now deceased, is relevant. Her name was Mia Immerman. She was an accomplished painter, and a prominent figure in Holocaust-remembrance groups. Her story is typical. She, a nine-year-old girl, and her parents were on a train in Belgium, attempting to reach France, and from there, England. The SS removed her parents from the train--they were never heard from again--but she managed to hide. Through the help of strangers, she found the home of relatives in Holland. They, too, were rounded up and removed to the camps. She, miraculously, reached England, and years later, America. All of Mia's aunts and uncles, her grandparents, the parents of her childhood friends, the friends themselves--everybody in the closely-knit Jewish community she grew up in--died in the camps.

Perhaps she was lying?
Nobody denies the massive deportation programs the Nazis carried out. But how do you know these people died?! Did the evil Nazis send a card? Of course not. They were missing. There was no internet back then to make it easy for people to find each other again. You yourself give the example of people from Belgium ending up in Britain and America. How should they be able to find each other once separated? Almost impossible. You are assuming they died but you do not know.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:29 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Not you but your fellow tribesmen.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

Dutch documentary from leftwing broadcast organisation VPRO about the Israel Lobby that rules the US:

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?doc...el+lobby&hl=nl
English spoken. Got worldwide acclaim.
Notice how anybody who attacks this guy's holocaust denial idiocy becomes a Jew in his book.
FYI, my family background is German-Irish (just like Tom Hagen in "The Godfather"). I could probably have qualified as an "aryan" under the Third Reich's inane laws. Although I am now a skeptic as to religon in general, my background is Catholic.
This guy gets more and more disgusting with each post.

I will think I will let Jack Kirby speak for me in my general opinion of Neo Nazis:



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Old 14th July 2009, 11:32 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Death Machine was one of the few efficient things in Nazi Germany.
Historians have established that one of the reasons Nazi Germany lost the war was that their economic system and war industry was very badly managed...a constant welter of bureacratic infighitng and empire building that badly and probably fatally hurt war production. The idea the Nazi Economic System was wonderfully efficient is a myth .
But, yeah, when it came to pure slaughter Himmler did manage to devise a very good system.
Balloney. It took the combined effort of Russians, British and Americans to bring them down, outnumbering 1:7. So if the Germans were inefficient than the Allies must have been real incompetents. Anyway, the Germans had to lose. That's why Hess flew to Britain, to avoid a 2-front war. Hitler pressed ahead anyway.

Last edited by 9/11-investigator; 14th July 2009 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:36 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Fair enough. But that doesn't discharge you or the Nuremberg judges of the necessity to prove the crime.

Oh yes and torture doesn't count. Neither with Auschwitz commandant Hoess nor with KSM.

As you know, KSM detailed his role in the planning of the 9/11 attacks on Middle Eastern news outlets long before he was tortured.

None of the Nazi war criminals denied the reality the accusations were based on. They made legal arguments to exculpate themselves. They most assuredly did NOT pretend that the charges were fabrications.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:38 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
wrong...wrong...wrong.

about 300,000 Jews remained in Germany by the time the ability to leave was ended.
Fine with me. That means half rather than most.

Quote:
before ww2, poland had around 3 million jews. after ww2, only around 300,000 remained. only 3,000 remained in Germany.

where did the missing 2.7 million Polish Jews go? they didnt go to Israel..and they didnt go to the USA. only 300,000 Polish Jews came to Israel. less went to the USA.
Perhaps they fled to the East, just like many German Jews fled to Britain or America during the thirties.


Quote:
Ukraine is also missing about one million Jews. again, they did not go to the USA or Israel.
Same story. We cannot decide here where they did go to.

Quote:
every other nation lost Jews..and many lost a whooooole lot.
That's true. So where did they go, that's the question.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:43 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
My position on the bunnycaust is that I will believe that it happened if somebody can demonstrate it to me that it happened.

In Europe we hold the view that somebody is innocent until proven guilty very unlike jungles like the US (jungle, because the dudalbs, the dtuggs, the parkys and the finewines are in charge) where the rule is: 'listen pall, we're going to throw you in jail for 4 years. However, if you confess being guilty we'll reduce your sentence to 2 years' ('fleabargain').

So here is my request to the local Israel-Lobby here on this forum (dudalb, dtugg, parky, finewine and a few hundred more): demonstrate to me that 6 million people were gassed in WW2 under the Nazis.


Wait, I'll make it easy for you: prove that only one person was gassed.

Success (you may use a calculator for this exercise).
BIGOT TROLL!!! *draws Claymore*

Museums, the death camps themselves, people confessing to killing them, Jews talking about how their family members would brutally murdered, Hitler papers talking about them doing it...
What more proof do you need? Here's an idea.
1. Go to google
2. Search "Holocaust"
3. Read
4. Stop being ignorant.

*Slays Troll*
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:45 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Nobody denies the massive deportation programs the Nazis carried out. But how do you know these people died?! Did the evil Nazis send a card? Of course not. They were missing. There was no internet back then to make it easy for people to find each other again. You yourself give the example of people from Belgium ending up in Britain and America. How should they be able to find each other once separated? Almost impossible. You are assuming they died but you do not know.

You are an evil liar and an extremely foolish one. Mia devoted her life to searching for lost relatives. For decades, she scoured Western Europe, tracking down non-Jewish family friends. Absolutely no one had ever heard from ANY of the dozens of people she tried to find. These people are not "missing"; they were murdered!
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:45 AM   #71
Denver
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Originally Posted by FineWine View Post
Notice how carefully the evil Holocaust-denier steps around the elephant in the parlor. Adolf Eichmann, on trial for his life, never thought to deny the reality that formed the basis for the charges against him.
That is an interesting point.

I also find it hard to keep up with all the twists, turns, and references here. Has it been covered that if there were gas chambers, and no one was gassed, why were they built?
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:47 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Fine with me. That means half rather than most.



Perhaps they fled to the East, just like many German Jews fled to Britain or America during the thirties.




Same story. We cannot decide here where they did go to.



That's true. So where did they go, that's the question.

The Jewish population of the world decreased by roughly six million, monster.
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:50 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Denver View Post
That is an interesting point.

I also find it hard to keep up with all the twists, turns, and references here. Has it been covered that if there were gas chambers, and no one was gassed, why were they built?


The tedious, day-by-day proceedings of the Eichmann trial destroy these evil Holocaust-deniers. Eichmann twisted and turned, tried every legalistic trick in the book to save his hide, but it NEVER occurred to him to deny the reality on which the charges against him were based. Eichmann's son forgave the Israeli government for executing his father, saying he agreed with their decision. Perhaps he was "tortured."
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Old 14th July 2009, 11:52 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
Mr/Ms 9/11 Investigator: if you are so inclined here is one place to start.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/aus...and-operation/
I'm out now, that is a sufficient answer for anyone.
I know if that doesn't prove it that nothing will in the neo-nazi mind.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:19 PM   #75
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I have walked through the "locker room", gas chamber, and crematorium in Dachau.
To 9/11-investigator the building must be a later construction or what?

It was a bit unreal, I got a better understanding standing on the appelplads / roll call square, in a nice leather jacket with a sweater under, in january, and freezing my butt off, while the guide explained the roll call procedure* and described prisoners uniforms**.
*Lenghty
**Not leather jackets or sweaters
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:32 PM   #76
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9/11-investigator, as usual, skimmed over the volumes of evidence that disprove your misguided conspiracy theory.

E.g. MG1962's post.

Go look at it, make a rebuttal or just run off back to stormfront.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:35 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
That's true. So where did they go, that's the question.
they are in Heaven.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:54 PM   #78
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I don't believe that 9/11 investigator exists, the concept is ridiculous. While many other people have replied to what are supposedly his posts, they have simply been brainwashed by the politically correct historians.

I see no evidence beyond his posts of his existence. Has anyone ever seen him or spoken to him? You may think that I'd be required to give an alternate explanation as to why his posts appear here, but I think that I'd rather be humble and state that they are a mystery for the ages.

To prove my intelligence, I will henceforth refer to him by a series of demeaning names, and continuously indicate that everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot or a conspirator.
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:06 PM   #79
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there used to be 18 million Jews on Earth. now there are maybe 14 million Jews. where are the missing Jews?

all logic and rational research suggests they were killed between 1938 and 1945. until someone can come up with a better idea of where the missing 4-6 million Jews went, we must assume they died in the Holocaust.
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:29 PM   #80
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9/11 investigator you suck at this holocaust denial game. Learn from a pro. http://www.prothink.org/holohoax/
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