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Tags bill maher , christianity , judaism

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Old 10th August 2009, 03:09 PM   #1
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Do only one half of Americans know Judaism is older than Christianity?

On Bill Maher's program (Aug 7) he made the claim that
Quote:
And I haven't even brought up Religion. But here's one Fun Fact I'll leave you with: Did you know only about half of Americans are aware that Judaism is an older Religion than Christianity? That's right, half of America looks at books called the Old Testament and the New Testaments and cannot figure out which one came first.
Is that true? Do only one half of Americans know Judaism is older than Christianity?

ETA: wrong forum, sorry
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Old 10th August 2009, 03:18 PM   #2
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I saw Maher for the first time in a while and HE looked like he's older than Christianity.
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Old 10th August 2009, 03:20 PM   #3
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I'm not sure, but I'd actually say far less than that actually know that Christianity evolved from Judaism. The first five books of the Bible are the Torah.
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Old 10th August 2009, 04:49 PM   #4
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Maher made the joke that there's a "old testament" and a "new testament," and half the people apparently don't know which one is older. But that joke prefigures that people know that the "old testament" is the Jewish one. I wouldn't assume that.

But what of the basic (I think) information that their own god-man, Jesus Christ, was a Jew? Do they really not know that? Or do they not realize that he's the beginning of their religion. It's hard to explain.

Brings to mind that moron (let's be nice) savant Sherri Shepard, on The View, (the one who wouldn't admit to definite knowledge that the Earth is round) who proclaimed with certainty that Christians were around before everyone else, Greeks, etc.
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Old 10th August 2009, 05:24 PM   #5
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You have to be a real moron to not know that Judaism is older then Christianity.
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Old 10th August 2009, 05:50 PM   #6
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Why would a person have to be a moron? It is something that is generally just not taught, so with a lack of information, how could they know it? When something isn't taught, or is not widely known, it just doesn't really occur to people that there may be additional information they're unaware of. Teaching about Judaism is simply not a priority. I know growing up I was never exposed to it. Even in Sunday School, they never mentioned Judaism at all or the Torah and I never even knew about Judaism until I was 25.
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Old 10th August 2009, 05:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Eyeron View Post
Why would a person have to be a moron? It is something that is generally just not taught, so with a lack of information, how could they know it? When something isn't taught, or is not widely known, it just doesn't really occur to people that there may be additional information they're unaware of. Teaching about Judaism is simply not a priority. I know growing up I was never exposed to it. Even in Sunday School, they never mentioned Judaism at all or the Torah and I never even knew about Judaism until I was 25.
Jesus was a Jew. As was Paul, Peter, John, Marc, Mary, Joseph, King Herod, and most of the other folks in the New Testament.

How could Christianity possibly be older then Judaism...with this in mind?

Hence....morons.
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Old 10th August 2009, 06:02 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
Jesus was a Jew. As was Paul, Peter, John, Marc, Mary, Joseph, King Herod, and most of the other folks in the New Testament.

How could Christianity possibly be older then Judaism...with this in mind?

Hence....morons.
Ignorance (in its 'true' meaning) of a fact, such as that Jesus was Jewish, does not mean aperson is a moron. It just means s/he is ignorant of that fact.
If a person is unaware that jesus was Jewish, there is no reason s/he should know that Judaism predates Chrisitanity.
The millions upon millions of facts you are ignorant of do not mean that you are a moron.
It takes other attributes to merit that epithet.
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Old 10th August 2009, 06:39 PM   #9
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ok nitpick time.

The character in the writings "jesus" is a jew. It has never been proven he was or wasn't a Jew or anything else in reality as his physical existance has never been established. Lets argue about what color Santa claus hat is instead....

Certainly the Jesus movement was formed as a subset of the already existing Jewish community... But hey, so what if many people don't know that. Many people don't know Australia is not in europe or that donuts don't contain nuts.
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Old 10th August 2009, 06:50 PM   #10
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Oy. Oy vey.
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Old 10th August 2009, 07:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
Oy. Oy vey.
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Old 10th August 2009, 08:04 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
On Bill Maher's program (Aug 7) he made the claim that
Do you and Bill Maher routinely beg questions?

(How does one poll for this, I wonder?)
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Old 10th August 2009, 08:06 PM   #13
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Fool, why are you intentionally obtuse? Do you think that anyone is dazzled by your mundane observation, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand?
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Old 10th August 2009, 08:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Do you and Bill Maher routinely beg questions?
I do not understand you.
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Old 10th August 2009, 08:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I do not understand you.
DR is on a roll. Several of his posts the last few days have struck me as quite funny (in that I think he meant them to be so), and this is some more pith for the pot (so to speak).


This post brought to you by the letters K, T, and no-offense-intended-to-DR.
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Old 10th August 2009, 10:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by hgc View Post
Fool, why are you intentionally obtuse? Do you think that anyone is dazzled by your mundane observation, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand?
well I'm fairly sure you are not dazzled. I invite you to take advantage of the fine ignore button JREF has provided you.

not quite so sure about why you think that my post had nothing to do with the topic?? Is providing comments on the Jesus movement being obtuse? In a thread about americans level of knowledge of thier own religion which is decended from the Jesus movement?
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Old 10th August 2009, 10:44 PM   #17
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I have no difficulty believing Maher's convenient (to his lame joke) statistic, but I'd still, in my best skeptic mode, like to see the survey or study he got it from,.... if one exists.

OTOH, I have no difficulty believing it because I can recall doing a training session in the midwest for my company in the 90s, and at lunch somehow a conversation about liability got crossed over into morality and we wound up discussing the historical context and I said something to the effect of, ".... but I'm sure the Torah says XXX..."
One of them responded, "We don't read the Jewish bible."
When I pointed out that they knew various translations of it (with inconvenient words like "Jewish" removed) but all learned it all in Sunday School as "The Old Testament", they looked at me like I'd just bitten the head off a puppy.

A lot of bible belt and fundy Christians go straight from Genesis with all those cool stories right over to Revelations or whatever other NT book their particular sect follows. They really don't know much else as they're uneducated on the topic, and they've spent so many years thinking about and hearing about the differences between Jews and Christians that the thought that Christianity was a progression (if not a logical progression at least one that makes sense in some terms) from Judaism is totally bewildering to them. (Ask the same people if they know that Islam also sort of sprang from the same roots for a real laugh riot. Hell, ask that of some uneducated Muslims and they'll turn purple.)

The operative word in all of this being "uneducated". Poorly informed. Not read up on the subject. Haven't bothered looking into it.

Not "morons".
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Old 11th August 2009, 12:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
Jesus was a Jew. As was Paul, Peter, John, Marc, Mary, Joseph, King Herod, and most of the other folks in the New Testament.

How could Christianity possibly be older then Judaism...with this in mind?

Hence....morons.
You missed the point entirely. Most people don't know it because it isn't widely taught. That doesn't make them morons. How can a person be aware of something if they've never come across it in the first place?
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Old 11th August 2009, 12:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Eyeron View Post
You missed the point entirely. Most people don't know it because it isn't widely taught. That doesn't make them morons. How can a person be aware of something if they've never come across it in the first place?
But it kinda says so in the one book they supposedly reads, i.e. the bible.
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Old 11th August 2009, 03:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by GreNME View Post
DR is on a roll. Several of his posts the last few days have struck me as quite funny (in that I think he meant them to be so), and this is some more pith for the pot (so to speak).


This post brought to you by the letters K, T, and no-offense-intended-to-DR.
Sorry, but your post did not aid in my understanding at all. Why is the comment clever or witty?
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Old 11th August 2009, 06:02 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Eyeron View Post
Why would a person have to be a moron? It is something that is generally just not taught, so with a lack of information, how could they know it? When something isn't taught, or is not widely known, it just doesn't really occur to people that there may be additional information they're unaware of. Teaching about Judaism is simply not a priority. I know growing up I was never exposed to it. Even in Sunday School, they never mentioned Judaism at all or the Torah and I never even knew about Judaism until I was 25.
Where did you go to school, might I ask? In NYC (largest school district in the U.S.) kids are not only taught that Judaism is older than Christianity but that Hinduism is older than Judaism. One of the major areas of the 9th grade Social Studies curriculum is world religions and every year there are religion questions on the state-wide standardized exam.

This link provides sample questions on religion and philosophy that 10th grade students (about age 15) are asked on the state-wide exam. I wonder how many Maher would get right?

http://www.regentsprep.org/Regents/c...QNum=1&Wrong=0
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Old 11th August 2009, 06:12 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I do not understand you.
If the joke didn't work, it might have been my delivery.

Back to the topic at hand, as I fear the dreaded rule 11 hammer.
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Old 11th August 2009, 06:15 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
ok nitpick time.

The character in the writings "jesus" is a jew. It has never been proven he was or wasn't a Jew or anything else in reality as his physical existance has never been established. Lets argue about what color Santa claus hat yarmulke is instead....
Fixed it for you.
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Old 11th August 2009, 06:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
Where did you go to school, might I ask? In NYC (largest school district in the U.S.) kids are not only taught that Judaism is older than Christianity but that Hinduism is older than Judaism. One of the major areas of the 9th grade Social Studies curriculum is world religions and every year there are religion questions on the state-wide standardized exam.

This link provides sample questions on religion and philosophy that 10th grade students (about age 15) are asked on the state-wide exam. I wonder how many Maher would get right?

http://www.regentsprep.org/Regents/c...QNum=1&Wrong=0

Don't know about Bill but I got them all correct. Now I have to get ready to help a lady from my wife's church with a computer problem she has.

May the IPU (Blessed be Her name) provide you with an interesting day.
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Old 11th August 2009, 09:47 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by hgc View Post
But what of the basic (I think) information that their own god-man, Jesus Christ, was a Jew?
Now you're just talking crazy talk! Everyone knows Jesus was an American!


The evidences:

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Old 11th August 2009, 10:03 AM   #26
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Judaism -- what's that? God created the world, then his friends wrote it all down and handed it to Billy Graham. This book is known as "the word of God," and I think it took about a week and half.
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Old 11th August 2009, 01:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Lemastre View Post
Judaism -- what's that? God created the world, then his friends wrote it all down and handed it to Billy Graham. This book is known as "the word of God," and I think it took about a week and half.
Moses, not Billy.

If you'd party less with Dr Frank N. Furter, you'd not have this Time Warp thing going.
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Old 12th August 2009, 05:44 AM   #28
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I saw the same episode and wondered the same thing: "where did he get this information from?". I have been able to track down some of the other stats he mentioned in various other polls (Gallup and NYTimes), but haven't been able to find this one. (sadly most of the other stats he quotes appear to be correct with only slight exaggerations for a few).

So, does anyone know what the source of this stat is?
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Old 12th August 2009, 06:04 AM   #29
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And for our next trick, watch a fundie explode when he's told Jesus wasn't white.
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Old 25th August 2009, 06:16 AM   #30
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Maher repeated the statistic on Conan last night. I am still no closer to finding the source. Does anyone have googling advice?



. . . . . . . .
ETA: I'd love to have this thread moved to another forum but have no idea how to do that. Who can help?
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Old 26th August 2009, 12:14 PM   #31
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I think that the majority of the people that were asked which religion was older may not have been terribly interested/educated in religion itself. Among Christians I have heard Jesus referred to as the King of Jews multiple times, which I feel should be an obvious clue as to which is older (my explanation is shaky at best, but it makes sense in my head).

Of course, I could always be 100% wrong, but the idea that half of Americans wouldn't know this thing just floors me. To me, it seems like the kind of info you simply "pick up" over time, even if you don't have any particular connection with Judaism or Christianity.

Originally Posted by Eyeron View Post
I know growing up I was never exposed to it. Even in Sunday School, they never mentioned Judaism at all or the Torah and I never even knew about Judaism until I was 25.
I can recall being taught about it when I was younger and attended a Christian Sunday School. Not that I'm trying to invalidate what you've said, of course, since I'm sure that all Sunday Schools vary in their teachings to some degree.
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