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Old 21st August 2009, 07:06 AM   #1
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Toronto 9/11 truth update - the insanity continues

Hello everyone!

Been a while since I posted here and I see little has changed with our pals in the TM: their numbers continue to dwindle, Steven Jones is still peddling his fraud in the Bentham and....well that's about it.

Here in Toronto things are getting even funnier on the truth front. I've been a member of my Toronto truth chapter for a few years now and get to read their hilarious e-mail list (I can't tell you how hard it is to not respond sometimes, since that would blow my cover).

Anyway....In July they changed their name to "Toronto Truthseekers" on meetup. That way they could include chemtrails, vaccines, NAU, global warming, weather modification and a host of other things in addition to 9/11.

They're still doing their weekend "street actions" downtown, and attendance has been low to say the least; always the same diehard folks, generally in the range of 3-6 people - sometimes not even that.

Here's group leader "Black Krishna" (real name Vijay) after their July 19 event:

Originally Posted by Black Krishna
I lugged a table, megaphone and bag of 5000 flyers to dundas square by 1:30 pm. then i waited until 3:30 pm to set-up because nobody else was there.
Bummer

Lately the group's e-mail list has seen more infighting than a Somali tribal conference due to endless conflicts over strategy, claims and the growing insanity of member like Victor Fletcher (who endlessly rants about the "Zionist" plots against him), "Glenn" (a 40 year old who was expelled from the group due to his bizarre public gestures towards teenage girls) and Black Krishna (BK), whose decent into madness has become especially comical.

BK raised a few eyebrows when he told fellow members that police crowd control methods at local street festivals are part of practice drills for the day when the NWO rounds us all up into camps.

Then on August 4, author and journalist Eric Margolis gave a talk at the Gladstone Hotel, hosted by anti-war group "Real News." BK and several other truthers showed up and here is some of what BK had to say about it afterwards (my emphasis):

Originally Posted by Black Krishna[COLOR=black
]the place was 20 - 50% spooks, kind of like a training session, but open to the public…....there were even fake conspiracy theorists there to yell crazy things to make sure mainstream liberals continue to think "truthers" are crazy, and perhaps worse, annoying as hell…....when a guy yelled a standard "the rothschilds!" line with a little puffed-up outrage i nearly cracked up. he smiled back at me with a bit more of a knowing smile than you'd expect. then he left. we're both in the game…....no worries, we have a professional relationship with the spooks at this point….it was interesting, but my guess is "the real news" is a real CSIS operation.[/color]
This prompted several members to reply:

Originally Posted by Don Chisholm
Got to say Vijay; That's quite a skill you have there being able to point out agents in a crowd like that and to determine that the the whole setup was put on by CISIS. The conspiracy grows
Originally Posted by Don Draper
Are you suggesting that the government dispatched tons of spooks to an Eric Margolis appearance that 99.9% of Toronto didn't even know was going on?.....Frankly BK, your remarks were so absurd and your attempts to defend them so non-existent that if I were so paranoid as to accuse people of being agents you'd be candidate #1.
And then, after accusing a crowd of people of being "agents" with no proof, BK then had the gall to write this:

Originally Posted by Black Krishna
the fact that many truthers don't trust other truthers supposedly telling the truth is a crippling paradox that would make any social circle look like a joke to others, so it's important for us to bond socially to build the trust and relationships that we can use to act.


After this produced more howls of outrage over such laughable hypocracy, BK was joined by Victor Fletcher, and Chris ("shivvy")in denouncing all group critics as "agents" working for the enemy.

In the end a few people quit and at least one person was tossed out of the group. Sigh.....

Oh and the best part? BK also anncouced that he's going to run for Mayor of Toronto!!! Can't wait for that.

For those wanting to see this moron in action, here he is getting told off by a local anti-war group.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQlMFIsr46Y

Yes, that video was posted by the truthers.

Last edited by CHF; 21st August 2009 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 21st August 2009, 07:19 AM   #2
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Interesting read,but you have duplicate entire post. (Text and then pasted same text again...)
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Old 21st August 2009, 07:21 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
Hello everyone!
(snipped for length)
good stuff
lots o lols

the video is great
"19 islams attacked us" "they didnt attack us" "o yeah the americans"
he doesnt even know what country he is in lmao
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Old 21st August 2009, 07:22 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Interesting read,but you have duplicate entire post. (Text and then pasted same text again...)
Whew. Thanks for the heads up
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Old 21st August 2009, 09:45 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
Hello everyone!

Been a while since I posted here and I see little has changed with our pals in the TM: their numbers continue to dwindle, Steven Jones is still peddling his fraud in the Bentham and....well that's about it.

Here in Toronto things are getting even funnier on the truth front. I've been a member of my Toronto truth chapter for a few years now and get to read their hilarious e-mail list (I can't tell you how hard it is to not respond sometimes, since that would blow my cover).

<snip>

Yes, that video was posted by the truthers.
Wow. It actually heartens me to realize that these idiots represent 9/11 'Truth'. It demonstrates just how superficial and ignorant the movement is.

Likewise on the JREF 9/11 conspiracy forums, the best they've got is Heiwa and bill smith!!!
Yep, this is a movement in deep trouble, folks. Let's keep it that way!
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Old 21st August 2009, 09:50 AM   #6
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Is there any chance we could get some of these email exchanges for humor value?

McHrozni
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Old 21st August 2009, 10:02 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Is there any chance we could get some of these email exchanges for humor value?

McHrozni
A lot of it is just mindless babble that is of no interest to anyone, so I tried to give you the best parts.

If you want a live feed of their insanity, I would suggest signing up to the group. Checking one's e-mail account in the is like reading the morning funnies in the paper, only better.

BK really is a true believer and he loves to type long messages about the great struggle he and his friends are fighting. He's the kind of person who literally sees conspiracies EVERYWHERE.

Victor Fletcher, meanwhile, is a tad scary the way he somehow works the "Zionists" into every issue.
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Old 21st August 2009, 10:11 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Wow. It actually heartens me to realize that these idiots represent 9/11 'Truth'. It demonstrates just how superficial and ignorant the movement is.
Back in 2007 I actually showed up at a couple of their "street actions" in order to debate/make fun of them (one encounter was filmed by them but never uploaded for some reason....).

But since then their attendance has dwindled from about a dozen down to 1-6, the younger truthers have grown up and moved on (or found girlfriends?), and the group has become more and more dominated by a handful of raving lunatics who scared everyone else way.

The group really has become a microcism of the TM as a whole. It peaked in late 2006-early 2007 and has been crashing faster than free fall speed since then as a result of its own insanity and failure to achieve anything of value.

I actually suggested to them in June 2007 that they contact the engineering departments of local universities in order to enlist their support. They agreed it was a good idea and yet none of them have lifted a finger. It's all about keeping the fantasy alive.

At this point there's nothing to do except laugh.

Last edited by CHF; 21st August 2009 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 21st August 2009, 10:14 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
At this point there's nothing to do except laugh.
As far as the Toronto group goes, you need to POINT and laugh to distinguish them from all the other crazies in Dundas Square.
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Old 21st August 2009, 10:22 AM   #10
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ahhh its refreshing to know that although I live in Ontario these characters live 1000 miles from my town.

Now the Winnipeg TM is too close...................

oh, Eric Margolis, from "W5" ?

Last edited by jaydeehess; 21st August 2009 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 21st August 2009, 11:10 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQlMFIsr46Y

Yes, that video was posted by the truthers.
Wow. Cui bono, indeed.
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Old 21st August 2009, 11:25 AM   #12
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I don't know about y'all..but at the end of the video, I wanted to buy the older anti-war protester a beer..or even several. I love seeing common sense just pummel insanity.

So many great lines... "After 6 years you've convinced exactly no one" "Your a loser" and "F off".

Kinda creepy how fast old Tupac talks...betcha 100 bucks he's under some sort of psychiatric care.
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Old 21st August 2009, 11:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQlMFIsr46Y

Yes, that video was posted by the truthers.
WOW Aldo has a brother?
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Old 21st August 2009, 11:20 PM   #14
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"retarded ass college kid"
in reference to Avery.
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Old 22nd August 2009, 12:18 AM   #15
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Victor Fletcher is nut case. He is an astrologer in Toronto who claims to have predicted 911 http://www.torontostreetnews.com/article.asp?id=155
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Old 22nd August 2009, 01:05 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
But since then their attendance has dwindled from about a dozen down to 1-6,
You'd think that any form of insanity would draw ten times that many people in a city of 2.5 million.
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Old 22nd August 2009, 01:52 AM   #17
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One of things that's been weighing on me is the future of these guys. What will these 911 Truth Twits be doing in 10 years? But I just went through a whole bunch of videos produced by local Truth organizations showing their 5 man demonstrations and fights with legitimate anti-war groups. The answer is clear. For those who are left in 10 years, in 20, they'll still be on Youtube claiming the evidence is overwhelming, bazillions of engineers believe it, and only the few remaining debunkers deny this.

The guys I saw on these videos are loonies. They are absolutely nuts. I doubt anyone would hire them for a job. I'm no psychiatrist or clinical psychologist, but I did volunteer work with mentally ill adults for many years. It seems that most of those left have some sort of compulsive disorder.

Last edited by Scott Sommers; 22nd August 2009 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 22nd August 2009, 08:24 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
...What will these 911 Truth Twits be doing in 10 years?
This looks about right.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:10 AM   #19
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When it comes to Victor Fletcher, anti-semestism and astrology are just scratching the surface. He's also into chemtrails.

He's a conspiracy nut who propagandizes his views through his paper "Toronto Street News". It's distributed by homeless people. Yes, he actually exploits homeless people to spread his views.

He rants so much about the Zionist conspiracies that I fully expect him to be a holocaust denier.

The national Post article on him is amusing:

Quote:
Victor Fletcher is dying of cancer. He has only a matter of months to live.

"I'm just going to let it develop. I'm just tired of living. I'm so depressed," he said. "I wish I didn't know what I know... I'm disgusted with the world, you know? I don't want to go through operations and stuff. I've done my thing in this life. That's it. Goodbye. Goodbye, Charlie."

He said he has read about cancer of the bowel on the Internet, and his symptoms seem to match it. He has not been to a doctor for a diagnosis. He does not trust them.
A self diagnosis. Keep in mind that this was published in Aug. 2008.

Here's some more quotes from the mailing list. In response to this thread:

Quote:
Hello Folks,

In my opinion...............don't let these guys get to you. My guess is that they are very jealous and envious, because Truth prevails when it's put out there, with good intention. Which is what you're doing. They'll fall away.

Peace & Light..............Marcia Walsh
Quote:
The usual propaganda from the same gang that has been bothering us. We must be so effective they have to launch campaigns everywhere! When the public sees these morons at work they will keep coming over to our side.

I wonder what it's like to be a paid disinfo agent and realize you're not dealing with reality?

They twist the fact that there were arguments in the group -- the arguments that were all about exposing themselves as disinfo agents. Someone has to be paid to do this bizarre and self-evident twisting.

-- Victor / Toronto Street News.
I wish I were a paid disinfo agent! Then I wouldn't have to worry about the debt that uni's gotten me into.

Last edited by Havermayer; 23rd August 2009 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 05:57 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
Victor Fletcher is nut case. He is an astrologer in Toronto who claims to have predicted 911 http://www.torontostreetnews.com/article.asp?id=155
OK, so it is the same Victor Fletcher who used to blab mindlessly about astrology in USENET back in the 90's. He would happily accuse his opponents of send him child pornography among other happy methods.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 04:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
I don't know about y'all..but at the end of the video, I wanted to buy the older anti-war protester a beer..or even several. I love seeing common sense just pummel insanity.
I hardly think he qualified for a beer. I might have bought him a coffee, maybe ... until he started accusing the twoofer of &quot;working for THEM&quot;. At that point it became clear that he isn't much better than the lunatics.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 09:52 PM   #22
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No wait, it gets funnier!!!

I was hoping the Toronto truthers would post some follow-up humour and sure enough, they came through with flying colours:

Originally Posted by Black Krishna
This was sent to me by one of our Canadian 9/11 Truth friends....They found someone who's apparently a member of TTS talking bad about us -- and me in particular -- on a message board, it looks like a neo-liberal organization that doesn't want people finding out about the NWO.

As we become more successful we can expect this nonsense, or people trying to tear us down without proposing that anyone build or do anything. Why people with a limited amount of time would focus on this task is a mystery, but as you know I have my public suspicions about this type of activity, especially when it's consistent.

Frankly, if we have a consistent and intelligent response, this stuff just serves as advertising, like the MSM and others bashing Infowars.com, people can see for themselves who's lying and who's not.
So to sum up, BK thinks that...

a) the Toronto truthers are "successful" (by what measure, one wonders)

b) that I'm just another of the spooks he sees everywhere he goes, and

c) that this mockery HELPS the TM. As if people will read the deranged ramblings of BK and will then say: "hey, now there's a club I wanna join!"



Then there's Victor Fletcher, the Zionist hunter, as pointed out by Havermayer above:

Originally Posted by Victor Fletcher
The usual propaganda from the same gang that has been bothering us. We must be so effective they have to launch campaigns everywhere! When the public sees these morons at work they will keep coming over to our side.

I wonder what it's like to be a paid disinfo agent and realize you're not dealing with reality?

They twist the fact that there were arguments in the group -- the arguments that were all about exposing themselves as disinfo agents. Someone has to be paid to do this bizarre and self-evident twisting
Yet again we see the same phenomenon that caused the group to lose several members in the past few weeks: the belief that any opposition = disinfo agent.

As for public support, the average folk on the street tend to look upon such mental illness rather unfavorably.

But wait! BK has a positive spin:

Originally Posted by Black Krishna
no worries, the spooks aren't homogenous and a few might be trying to steer positive attention our way

Last edited by CHF; 23rd August 2009 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 24th August 2009, 01:16 AM   #23
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Keep it coming, CHF! These guys are batcraptastically crazy!

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Old 24th August 2009, 10:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
...

As we become more successful we can expect this nonsense, or people trying to tear us down without proposing that anyone build or do anything. Why people with a limited amount of time would focus on this task is a mystery, but as you know I have my public suspicions about this type of activity, especially when it's consistent.

..............
We must be so effective they have to launch campaigns everywhere! When the public sees these morons at work they will keep coming over to our side.

Nary a thought that their own actions are what draws the derision...
Nope, if anyone is opposed to them it can only be that the person is a paid agent, a dupe of the paid agents or a simpleton.

Quote:
no worries, the spooks aren't homogenous and a few might be trying to steer positive attention our way
Wow! that is reminiscent of the Apollo Hoax story that has a coke bottle bounce accross the screen while the astronauts wlked on the Moon.
The explanation is that someone working along the video streamm inserted a coke bottle into the video(or threw it into the scene live) in order to send a message that it was faked. Pure unadulterated nonsense.

,,,,,,, and how ironic given the utter non-homogeneousness of the 911 conspiracy.

Quote:
I wonder what it's like to be a paid disinfo agent and realize you're not dealing with reality?
Am I alone in wondering what its like being a 911 conspiracy theorist and having a tenuous grasp of reality at all?
How tiring it must be to look under every bed and around every corner for the spooks out to cause havoc in your life.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 24th August 2009 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 24th August 2009, 10:47 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Wow. It actually heartens me to realize that these idiots represent 9/11 'Truth'. It demonstrates just how superficial and ignorant the movement is.

Likewise on the JREF 9/11 conspiracy forums, the best they've got is Heiwa and bill smith!!!
Yep, this is a movement in deep trouble, folks. Let's keep it that way!
Personally I don't think we had anything to do with it. Their lack of theories (or evidence) and actual physical commitment doomed them from the beginning.
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Old 24th August 2009, 07:17 PM   #26
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This is what passes for motivational speech among Toronto truthers.

Yet again, BK (my emphasis):

Originally Posted by Black Krishna
While some people may be able to repair a car, cook a quiche, snowboard, whittle, twitter or raise a child better than us, there's nobody in the world capable of explaining our problems, reactions and solutions with respect to the New World Order better than we can.

I know, I've heard lots of smart truthers say lots of smart stuff.

Seriously.

If the public heard them they'd be impressed.

Seriously.

If truthers carefully organized their thoughts instead of randomly getting into arguments.

Seriously.

Thousands of YouTube videos, flyers, DVD's and more already prove this, so we know it.

Seriously.

If anyone knows anything about anything that everyone offline should know, then make a poster or flyer.

Seriously.
"Seriously."

It's as if he knows his fellow truthers don't even believe it.

Last edited by CHF; 24th August 2009 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 24th August 2009, 10:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
This looks about right.


Yes it does! That gave me a real good laugh for today.
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Old 24th August 2009, 10:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post

Yes, that video was posted by the truthers.
I have to say CHF, those guys had to have been residents at a nuthouse some time in their lives. Wow!
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Old 15th September 2009, 07:17 AM   #29
Captain.Sassy
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Hey CHF,

I read your description of the Torono truth movement and Black Krishna with delight. Good job on infiltrating their network. I'm sure they'd be less than thrilled to find that there are actually moles within their organization, but that these moles are more concerned with gathering hilarious quotes than photos and addresses.

The little corner of the internet where I usually hang out is called HipHopCanada.com. It's a Canadian rap-related discussion forum. Black Krishna comes on there to minister conspiracy gobbledygook to rap fans. There are many of us who oppose and ridicule his insanity, but since it's a music discussion board, there are some people on there who aren't particularly educated and who tend to fall for the seductive simplicity of his conspiracy theories.

Anyways, consider this an open invitation to come by sometime and say hi to Black Krishna. He tends to avoid questions he can't answer, and be prepared to be called (according to his mood) a snitch or a spy.

Here's the URL:
[double yoo double yoo double yoo] [DOT] hiphopcanada [DOT]com/_site/community/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=30

Best regards, and hope to see you there,

Your pal,

Captain.Sassy

p.s. since I'm new I can't post URLS, so replace the [DOT] with '.'

Last edited by Captain.Sassy; 15th September 2009 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 15th September 2009, 07:20 AM   #30
Captain.Sassy
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ermmm ditto the [double yoo]s.
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Old 15th September 2009, 08:04 AM   #31
Horatius
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Originally Posted by Captain.Sassy View Post
ermmm ditto the [double yoo]s.


I'm sorry, around here, we must spell that [double joo]s.



I'll get me hat.


ETA: Welcome to the forum!
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Old 15th September 2009, 08:51 AM   #32
Longfellow
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Originally Posted by Captain.Sassy View Post
Hey CHF,

...(snip)

The little corner of the internet where I usually hang out is called HipHopCanada.com. It's a Canadian rap-related discussion forum. ...(snip)
First, welcome.

Second . . . I'm sorry but for some reason when I read that the thought 'what if Eminem had been born in Toronto?' popped into my head.

I got places to go, I got people to see, eh?
The penitentiary, ain't the place for me, eh?
I'm warnin you do, not tempt me, eh?
I'll run up and squeeze, eh?
And put a hole in you, hole in you, eh?

Third

Quote:
Here's the URL:
[double yoo double yoo double yoo] [DOT] hiphopcanada [DOT]com/_site/community/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=30

Link. Until you get enough posts in, I believe that if you excise the http: bit you can post the links (you might have to lose the WWW bit as well).
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Old 15th September 2009, 09:12 AM   #33
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Thanks posting up the link for me and for the welcomes guys.

And Longellow, you might actually be surprised at the quality of some of the rap coming out of Toronto these days (if rap's your thing). Check out the Poor Man Militia, K.O., or anything by Empire (esp. Scandalis and Adam Bomb) (again, if rap's your thing). There are also great rappers in Ottawa and Montreal: Flight Distance, Hindu Kush (SamOsa and Loes, though they may have disbanded I'm not sure), and so forth. But in any case, I'm not here to promote Canadian rap...

Cheers,
CS.
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Old 15th September 2009, 11:43 AM   #34
CHF
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Originally Posted by Captain.Sassy View Post
Anyways, consider this an open invitation to come by sometime and say hi to Black Krishna. He tends to avoid questions he can't answer, and be prepared to be called (according to his mood) a snitch or a spy.

Here's the URL:
[double yoo double yoo double yoo] [DOT] hiphopcanada [DOT]com/_site/community/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=30

Best regards, and hope to see you there,

Your pal,

Captain.Sassy
Hey there Sassy.

Yes, BK is indeed in a class by himself - a guy who believes every conspiracy theory he stumbles on and who has no concept of just how silly he sounds. He continues to be a never-ending source of hilarious quotes.

And I hope he stays with it! I don't think anyone has done more to alienate people from the Toronto truth club (even TM members complain about his insanity and condesending holier-than-though attitude).

Can't wait to see his mayoral campaign! I wonder of he'll do better than Doug Plumb's 97 votes in a city riding a few years back.

As for chatin' on Hiphopcanada, I can't say I'm all that interested, although I will sming on by to see what it's like.

No offense intended to the intelligent hiphop fans out there (there certainly are a few) but genrally speaking I find that hiphop/rap music is little more than a celebration of ignorance and it attracts much of who you'd expect in terms of fans.

I can see why BK views the rap community as fetile recruiting grounds for the TM. After all, these are the same morons who refer to women as "b*tches" and "hos," and to everyone else as a "n***a."

Even the more peaceful characters like MosDef are proud of their ghetto upbringing and equally proud of having no education to speak of. The TM can have these fools. I wouldn't want them on my side even I felt they were worth the trouble of converting.

That said, I do like artists like K-os, and know hiphop fans who simply like the beat but not the message.

Maybe I'm selling hiphop fans short, but I just don't put much stock in the intellectual capacity of the average fan. Going on their message board sounds to me a lot like going on FreeRepublic to debate the crazy Republican Christan right-wing. A colossal waste of time.

Am I wrong?
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Old 15th September 2009, 03:05 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
Hey there Sassy.



Maybe I'm selling hiphop fans short, but I just don't put much stock in the intellectual capacity of the average fan. Going on their message board sounds to me a lot like going on FreeRepublic to debate the crazy Republican Christan right-wing. A colossal waste of time.

Am I wrong?
yeah
its probably not good to lump a whole genre of fans into the "stupid" category

ETA: welcome Sassy
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Old 15th September 2009, 03:13 PM   #36
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one more thought:
can you see Heiwa bumpin down the avenue to 2 LIVE CREW?

lol
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Old 15th September 2009, 04:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Justin39640 View Post
one more thought:
can you see Heiwa bumpin down the avenue to 2 LIVE CREW?

lol

I strongly suspect that ABBA is more his speed.
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Old 15th September 2009, 04:45 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
I strongly suspect that ABBA is more his speed.
Maybe the Village People?
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Old 15th September 2009, 05:32 PM   #39
Justin39640
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Maybe the Village People?
thats too funky for Hman

i think its more along the lines of:
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Old 15th September 2009, 06:21 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
Anyway....In July they changed their name to "Toronto Truthseekers" on meetup. That way they could include chemtrails, vaccines
So, what do they think the "Truth" is in regards to vaccines? That they don't work? That they're secretly full of mind control and infertility drugs? That they'll be used to kill of 80% of the global population?
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