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Old 3rd October 2009, 09:23 PM   #1
NorthMass
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Are the freemasons demonic?

I don't really know anything about them, some say they are good people others like this site say they are satanic, I have no clue lolz.

http://freemasonrywatch.org/lucifer.html

I also started watching this movie that alleges Jay-Z is a freemason who is demonic, don't know anything about freemasons to be honest. I have an open mind though so I'll watch anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDgUTQYEIas

In part 2 the narrarator alleges that the video of the solider getting his head cut off is the only time in history this was shown on cable television, is this true?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhS8-_KYTBo

Last edited by NorthMass; 3rd October 2009 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 09:44 PM   #2
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Yes.

They're coming for your children, and plan on making a nice meat pie out of them.

Your only hope is to summon a demonic entity with a higher Constitution - like one of the "Old Ones."
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Old 3rd October 2009, 09:51 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
Yes.

They're coming for your children, and plan on making a nice meat pie out of them.

Your only hope is to summon a demonic entity with a higher Constitution - like one of the "Old Ones."
Making fun of my honest questions is not going to get anyone anywhere, I don't know much of anything about freemasonry, I am just asking questions. For all I know they are the best organization in the world, or maybe they are demonic, I have no idea, I have no idea if these sources are accurate, I am just curious about the subject.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 09:53 PM   #4
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Do you mean demonic as in evil, or demonic as in controlled by demons?
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
Do you mean demonic as in evil, or demonic as in controlled by demons?
Demonic as in worshipping satan, or at least at the top level some worship satan. Doesn't mean they are evil per sey, it may simply be many masons being brainwashed into worshipping satan for example(hypothetically).
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:05 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by NorthMass View Post
Making fun of my honest questions is not going to get anyone anywhere, I don't know much of anything about freemasonry, I am just asking questions. For all I know they are the best organization in the world, or maybe they are demonic, I have no idea, I have no idea if these sources are accurate, I am just curious about the subject.
Oh really? So instead of actually trying to learn who they are and what they do, you automatically jump on the "demonic" thing?

How many freemasons do you know? There's a couple on this board, I'd imagine they'll post soon if they feel up to it.

Besides, for them to be demonic - demons would have to exist. I don't suppose you have a good reason for believing in that possibility?

And for future reference - YouTube isn't a reliable source for anything but 1980's music videos and cats doing funny things.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:08 PM   #7
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I think there just a club for old guys. I wouldn't trust a Fundamentalist Chrstian websites with a scary black background and no sources. My response to Freemason conspiracy theories is that Freemasons have been around for 400 years and everyone has heard of them, so if they are secretly planing to take over the world, then they are probably the worst conspirators ever.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:09 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by NorthMass View Post
Making fun of my honest questions is not going to get anyone anywhere, I don't know much of anything about freemasonry, I am just asking questions. For all I know they are the best organization in the world, or maybe they are demonic, I have no idea, I have no idea if these sources are accurate, I am just curious about the subject.
On the contrary, it's good for a chuckle and to let you know some at least find these concerns laughable. Take it as an FYI.

Others can also be more helpful. I don't know a lot myself except that most people concerned with Freemason spirituality are hardcore Christians who prescribe to a narrow view of being beset on all sides by "the world," inherently corrupt as it is. Or old line royalists. Freemasons historically supported anti-royalist revolustions, freedoms and constitutions, democracy, equality, etc. Then they got more powerful as this side of things won and spread. Now they're reviled as an insider's power club. They've toyed with unitarian/new-agey/religious interpretations, and do employ symbols that can have occult meanings. If all this means demonic to you, I guess it is a matter of opinion and definitions. I'm more worried about them bombing people just cause they're in power than raising the antichrist.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:10 PM   #9
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Oh pick me! Pick me!

As a freemason, I can assure you there is nothing demonic about the fraternity. Freemasonrywatch is a fear mongering site that was founded and run by a CTer who is, quite literally, mentally deranged. He has some mental disorders and needs to seek professional mental health.

All of the rituals of freemasonry - the real ones, not the made up ones you find on freemasonry watch - are available to the public. They have been in the public domain since around 1725, and you can buy a copy from Barnes and Noble or check it out from your local library. Or you can find it in 5 seconds on google. Read them - and you'll find that freemasonry isn't nearly as sexy as freemasonry watch makes it out to be.

Its a fraternity based on esoteric philosophy with a bit of charity. Nothing more, nothing less.

PS - Jay-Z isnt a freemason. Thats a conspiracy myth. He knows by using conspiracy symbolism he'll attract the nutters.

Last edited by LightinDarkness; 3rd October 2009 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
PS - Jay-Z isnt a freemason. Thats a conspiracy myth.
The man's married to Beyonce. Can't imagine him wanting to hang around a bunch of wheezing old guys in dresses.

Ooops. Sorry about that.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by NorthMass View Post
Demonic as in worshipping satan, or at least at the top level some worship satan. Doesn't mean they are evil per sey, it may simply be many masons being brainwashed into worshipping satan for example(hypothetically).
There is no "top level" (or "bottom level") of freemasonry. Its the #1 conspiracy myth about the fraternity, that some sort of levels exist- the entire point is that we meet on the same level.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
The man's married to Beyonce. Can't imagine him wanting to hang around a bunch of wheezing old guys in dresses.

Ooops. Sorry about that.
Dresses?

Hey! Just because we have a Scottish Rite doesn't mean we run around in kilts!
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Old 3rd October 2009, 10:18 PM   #13
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Also, Freemasons have been involved in conspiratorial stuff. They live in the world. Duh. Some have hated and mistrusted them. Check "Anti-Masonic Party" in American history, and note that John Adams, its most prominent member, had a royalist pro-British flavor to him.

LiD culd probably help with that chapter, and a good person to talk to, if you're not so creeped out at an actual Mason you have to run for an exit. "Oh my God, they're on the internet now? They're more powerful than I imagined..."
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Old 3rd October 2009, 11:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Caustic Logic View Post
Also, Freemasons have been involved in conspiratorial stuff. They live in the world. Duh. Some have hated and mistrusted them. Check "Anti-Masonic Party" in American history, and note that John Adams, its most prominent member, had a royalist pro-British flavor to him.

LiD culd probably help with that chapter, and a good person to talk to, if you're not so creeped out at an actual Mason you have to run for an exit. "Oh my God, they're on the internet now? They're more powerful than I imagined..."
*Insert evil, maniacal cackle* YES! The interwebs are the final chapter of our plan for world-domination by FISH FRIES!

It is true that freemasonry has been involved in real conspiracies. Like the conspiracy to overthrow Hitler, or the conspiracy against the British in the Revolutionary War.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 11:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
There is no "top level" (or "bottom level") of freemasonry. Its the #1 conspiracy myth about the fraternity, that some sort of levels exist- the entire point is that we meet on the same level.
Then why do people always bring up 32 degree or 33 degree masons or whatever that means lol. I don't believe the organization is bad but I always keep hearing these rumors so I just wanted to see if they for real or not.

So like the 32 degree masons and 33 degree masons are the same? I have heard the claim that the lower-level masons don't know the same amount the higher-levels do, but then again you just said that there is no different levels so that would debunk that claim.

Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
Oh pick me! Pick me!

As a freemason, I can assure you there is nothing demonic about the fraternity. Freemasonrywatch is a fear mongering site that was founded and run by a CTer who is, quite literally, mentally deranged. He has some mental disorders and needs to seek professional mental health.

All of the rituals of freemasonry - the real ones, not the made up ones you find on freemasonry watch - are available to the public. They have been in the public domain since around 1725, and you can buy a copy from Barnes and Noble or check it out from your local library. Or you can find it in 5 seconds on google. Read them - and you'll find that freemasonry isn't nearly as sexy as freemasonry watch makes it out to be.
Does freemasonrywatch base its evidence off of hear say from supposed former masons? I've noticed with a lot of conspiracies that this is the case, someone claims they used to be part of something and that something did something bad, etc.

Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
Its a fraternity based on esoteric philosophy with a bit of charity. Nothing more, nothing less.
So people just make up this demonic stuff I keep hearing or base it off of hearsay?

Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
PS - Jay-Z isnt a freemason. Thats a conspiracy myth. He knows by using conspiracy symbolism he'll attract the nutters.
That makes sense, just draws up attention for himself.

Last edited by NorthMass; 3rd October 2009 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 11:41 PM   #16
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No "former mason" involvement needed. Any time there is a group that meets in secret, is pretty old, and doesn't make its policies and procedures a matter of public knowledge, people are going to make up their own ideas about what goes on in there.

All the more so if they have an axe to grind.

The late-80's early 90's "Satanic Panic" pushed by the religious right saw a whole lot of people claim they were high-ranking Masons and worshipped Satan, etc...all B.S.

Check this website out. A lot of good information there to counter the Fundie Christian smear B.S.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/
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Old 3rd October 2009, 11:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by NorthMass View Post
Then why do people always bring up 32 degree or 33 degree masons or whatever that means lol. I don't believe the organization is bad but I always keep hearing these rumors so I just wanted to see if they for real or not.
Because people would generally rather believe what sounds sexy than the truth. People want to believe that degree numbers equate into some sort of rank, power, or authority. They do not. Never have.

The core of freemasonry is the 1st (Entered Apprentice), 2nd (Fellowcraft), and 3rd degrees (Master Mason). This is the original freemasonry before any side order, and all members reach the 3rd degree in 3-12 months, depending on their lodge and the candidate's desire to advance. Upon reaching the third degree the member is the highest degree in terms of rank, authority, and power. There is no higher degree.

The 32nd and 33rd degrees are offered by one side order of freemasonry, called the Scottish Rite. It is just ONE side order - there are quite a few. In the US, the main two side orders are the Scottish Rite and the York Rite. For sheer convenience sake, the Scottish Rite numerically orders its numerous side degrees (ending in 33). The York Rite does not, although it ends in a degree called Knights Templar. Members join either order based on their preference and a 32nd or 33rd degree mason of the Scottish Rite is no "higher" than a Knight Templar in the York Rite nor is either higher than a 3rd degree master mason.

In fact, in order to maintain membership in orders like the Scottish Rite (which have the 32 and 33 degree masons) you must remain in good standing with your blue lodge (where you received the 3rd degree).

Originally Posted by NorthMass View Post
So like the 32 degree masons and 33 degree masons are the same? I have heard the claim that the lower-level masons don't know the same amount the higher-levels do, but then again you just said that there is no different levels so that would debunk that claim.
The same in terms of what? Yes, they are the same in terms of rank, power, and authority - exactly equal. The only difference between a 32nd and 33rd degree mason is that the 33rd degree is by invitation of the Supreme Council to a brother mason who has made extraordinarily contributions to the fraternity or society. Its a honorary degree for doing a lot for your community - think of it as a community service award. There are no "lower level masons" or "higher level masons." Degrees beyond the third degree come from side orders and do not convey any additional knowledge, they simply build upon the first three degrees.


Originally Posted by NorthMass View Post
Does freemasonrywatch base its evidence off of hear say from supposed former masons? I've noticed with a lot of conspiracies that this is the case, someone claims they used to be part of something and that something did something bad, etc.
Freemasonrywach bases its claims on debunked hoaxes like the Leo Taxil hoax, which have been proven false for years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax

The Leo Taxil hoax is the source of these "demonic" claims, which Taxil later admitted he completely made up.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 11:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
No "former mason" involvement needed. Any time there is a group that meets in secret, is pretty old, and doesn't make its policies and procedures a matter of public knowledge, people are going to make up their own ideas about what goes on in there.

All the more so if they have an axe to grind.

The late-80's early 90's "Satanic Panic" pushed by the religious right saw a whole lot of people claim they were high-ranking Masons and worshipped Satan, etc...all B.S.

Check this website out. A lot of good information there to counter the Fundie Christian smear B.S.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/
I second that - masonicinfo is a excellent site. The creator is a very knowledgeable mason. The site is primarily dedicated to explaining freemasonry to non-masons (although masons love to read it as well). Hes done a lot of good and well sourced research, and hes a very humorous writer when it comes to exposing the conspiracy theories and freemason hoaxers.
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Old 4th October 2009, 12:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
Because people would generally rather believe what sounds sexy than the truth. People want to believe that degree numbers equate into some sort of rank, power, or authority. They do not. Never have.

The core of freemasonry is the 1st (Entered Apprentice), 2nd (Fellowcraft), and 3rd degrees (Master Mason). This is the original freemasonry before any side order, and all members reach the 3rd degree in 3-12 months, depending on their lodge and the candidate's desire to advance. Upon reaching the third degree the member is the highest degree in terms of rank, authority, and power. There is no higher degree.

The 32nd and 33rd degrees are offered by one side order of freemasonry, called the Scottish Rite. It is just ONE side order - there are quite a few. In the US, the main two side orders are the Scottish Rite and the York Rite. For sheer convenience sake, the Scottish Rite numerically orders its numerous side degrees (ending in 33). The York Rite does not, although it ends in a degree called Knights Templar. Members join either order based on their preference and a 32nd or 33rd degree mason of the Scottish Rite is no "higher" than a Knight Templar in the York Rite nor is either higher than a 3rd degree master mason.

In fact, in order to maintain membership in orders like the Scottish Rite (which have the 32 and 33 degree masons) you must remain in good standing with your blue lodge (where you received the 3rd degree).



The same in terms of what? Yes, they are the same in terms of rank, power, and authority - exactly equal. The only difference between a 32nd and 33rd degree mason is that the 33rd degree is by invitation of the Supreme Council to a brother mason who has made extraordinarily contributions to the fraternity or society. Its a honorary degree for doing a lot for your community - think of it as a community service award. There are no "lower level masons" or "higher level masons." Degrees beyond the third degree come from side orders and do not convey any additional knowledge, they simply build upon the first three degrees.




Freemasonrywach bases its claims on debunked hoaxes like the Leo Taxil hoax, which have been proven false for years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax

The Leo Taxil hoax is the source of these "demonic" claims, which Taxil later admitted he completely made up.
Well thank you for the responses, I had no idea about the freemasons coming into this thread really but it seems like the freemason conspiracy theories may simply not be accurate.
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Old 4th October 2009, 12:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
Its a fraternity based on esoteric philosophy with a bit of charity. Nothing more, nothing less.
I like this summary.

Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?
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Old 4th October 2009, 12:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by NorthMass View Post
Well thank you for the responses, I had no idea about the freemasons coming into this thread really but it seems like the freemason conspiracy theories may simply not be accurate.
And you are behaving like a genuine person that's learning. And it's not there's not some interesting things to learn about the 'brotherhood' and its history and whether or not it does signify something more concrete behind the scenes... but yeah, all that cartoony 'they worship goats and want a luciferian world order and draw their dark secrets from babylon...' motivates by scaring more than by educating.

Now, it was stated here there aren't all these levels, except then there are, but only with the Scottish Rite. So... there is a 33rd degree and those beneath it in the Scottish Rite brand of Freemasonry. And the original question was what's up with that? I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.
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Old 4th October 2009, 01:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Symbol View Post
Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?
They have horrendous gas, and they never own up to it, either.
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Old 4th October 2009, 06:08 AM   #23
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Why do I always miss the fun threads?
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Old 4th October 2009, 06:15 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by NorthMass View Post
[snip]...it seems like the freemason conspiracy theories may simply not be accurate.
Congratulations on the understatement of the week.

It seems that some groups take issue with Fremasonry's religious tolerance, seeing Evil© ahoof where men of good conscience work together for the betterment of society.

Sad really
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Old 4th October 2009, 06:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Symbol View Post
Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?
Not an official explanation but quite simply because Freemasonry's a fraternity, ergo male-only. And there are Masonic outlets for women either in the Order of the Eastern Star, Co-Masonry (mixed gender Masonry) or women's Masonry (women-only Masonry).
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Old 4th October 2009, 06:43 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Caustic Logic View Post
I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.
14 of 44 have been Masons, the most recent being Gerald Ford (33° BTW). If you want to stretch it, Clinton could be tarred Masonic for being involved in De Molay (Masonic boy's group).

From a quick boo around Google, it seems only two were 33° Masons:

Harry Truman and Gerald Ford

Information sourced from this site

HTH
Fitz
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Old 4th October 2009, 11:15 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
They have horrendous gas

It can barely power those stupid cars shriners drive.
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Old 4th October 2009, 11:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Symbol View Post
I like this summary.

Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?
When you ask whether freemasonry has an "official explanation", freemasonry is such an amorphous term that there really is no official organ to issue such statements.

The most widely known organization that represents mainstream freemasonry, the United Grand Lodge of England, has I believe stated now on several occasions that while the UGLE does not permit women to join UGLE affiliated lodges that it has no problem with females forming their own female-only or co-ed lodges. There are several organizations that have done just that. The UGLE recently put on a big exhibit about female freemasonry and the important role that it has had in the organizations development.

In the US and (I think) Scotland, the Order of the Eastern Stars exists which is a masonic organization that women can and do join. It isn't a lodge but is considered one of the many organizations that exist under the masonic umbrella like Jobs Daughters (childrens group for girls) or DeMolay (childrens group for boys).

Freemasonry is made up of so many disparate organizations - since no masonic organization holds a copyright to the term "freemason" and none of them have an interest in controlling who gets to claim the title. So what that results in is women creating female-only lodges, men and women creating co-ed lodges, and men creating men-only lodges. And none of them have any interest in changing how the other groups run their lodges. In that respect its really similar (although this is all Freemasonry has that is similar with greek organizations) to university greek groups - some are men only (fraternities), some are female only (sororities), and some are co-ed.

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Old 4th October 2009, 11:53 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
Now, it was stated here there aren't all these levels, except then there are, but only with the Scottish Rite. So... there is a 33rd degree and those beneath it in the Scottish Rite brand of Freemasonry. And the original question was what's up with that? I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.
Fitz has answered this well but there is another part I want to address on this, which is bolded.

No one has ever claimed that there are "levels" in the Scottish Rite except conspiracy theorists. Levels would mean that the degrees progress in a way which higher numbers grant additional power, authority, or rank. They do not, and they never have. The degrees are numbered because there are 30 of them and its easier to keep track of that way. Frankly, if the Scottish Rite had any idea a few hundred years ago how the numbers would be interpreted they probably would have dropped it or changed it to a letter system. IE, we'd have the A-Z degrees.

And as its been originally answered, the 33rd degree of the Scottish Rite is a community service award. Its given to those members who have made huge contributions through their profession, charity work, philanthropy, etc. to freemasonry and society at large. No one is "beneath" a 33rd degree mason. They have just as much power and authority as any 3rd degree mason. In fact, practically speaking I probably have more power than most 33rd degree masons because most are extraordinarily busy professionals who can't make it to most of the meetings and never vote on anything. Of course, then there are the 33rd degree retired farmers who show up to EVERYTHING...but their vote counts just as much as mine.

Last edited by LightinDarkness; 4th October 2009 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 4th October 2009, 11:57 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Why do I always miss the fun threads?
Now now, I was going to let you take this one but when I saw freemasonry watch I sort of pounced. That site and its spread of conspiracy hysteria gets to me.
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Old 4th October 2009, 12:16 PM   #31
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Oh yeah - is that the site that offers ex-Masons special prayers to get right with God again after being a Mason? Black background, very 90's? Man, that site's been around forever - I think I remember seeing it once while I was still in high school.

And yes, masonicinfo.com is a VERY good site. Looks to me like you got the bases covered here.
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Old 4th October 2009, 12:24 PM   #32
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Yep, that FreemasonryWatch. Offering Anti-Masonic Propaganda based in 18th century hoaxes with TERRIBLE website design since 1990!
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Old 4th October 2009, 01:17 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Drudgewire View Post
It can barely power those stupid cars shriners drive. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/eng101.gif
Stupid?!? The only reason I would ever profess belief in a Supreme Architect is so I'd' get to haul ass in one of those things wearing a totally sweet fez.
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Old 4th October 2009, 01:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
They have horrendous gas, and they never own up to it, either.
But there's always a telltale pile of rose petals and spice, if you care to look. And besides, they don't even get an ass until they get married.
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Old 4th October 2009, 02:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
Stupid?!? The only reason I would ever profess belief in a Supreme Architect is so I'd' get to haul ass in one of those things wearing a totally sweet fez.
Ya need the cigar to round out the image, Joey.

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Old 4th October 2009, 02:09 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by fitzgibbon View Post
14 of 44 have been Masons, the most recent being Gerald Ford (33° BTW). If you want to stretch it, Clinton could be tarred Masonic for being involved in De Molay (Masonic boy's group).

From a quick boo around Google, it seems only two were 33° Masons:

Harry Truman and Gerald Ford

Information sourced from this site

HTH
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I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.
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Old 4th October 2009, 03:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Caustic Logic View Post
I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.
In starting out, I would've expected more but that's what the numbers show. Not so surprising is the paucity of ebil Masons in the last generation which dovetails nicely wit Masonry falling out of favour with grown-ups ( non-Boomer grown-ups, that is to say). I also would've expected more to have been granted 33° by simple virtue of having achieved the States' highest public office. Obviously the Scottish Rite folks are a hardass, hard-to-please bunch.

The other thing to bear in mind is Masonry's popularity through the generations. You have to bear in mind that there was an anti-Masonic backlash in the States (and to a lesser degree in Canada) from about 1827 to the mid-1800s as a result of the Morgan Affair. And then with the Boomers rejecting the things their fathers held dear, there was also a dip there. However, everything runs in cycles and as many Masonic lodges are seeing an uptick in interest in Masonry (and religious and societal focus in general), it wouldn't surprise me to see another president of the States who's a Mason (or has Clinton-like Masonic connections) within the next decade or so.

Freemasonry's acceptance of religious equality may (over the long term) prove prescient. Hopefully mankind will live up to its potential in that regard
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Old 4th October 2009, 03:54 PM   #38
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You know, the Nazis hated the Freemasons as well.
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Old 4th October 2009, 04:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Caustic Logic View Post
I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.
Its a common conspiracy myth that most presidents are "33rd degree masons." Its a lie - it has never been true. The "they have all been masons by Kennedy!" lie comes from the CT mischaracterization of his secrecy speech - which they claim was talking about secret societies, but really was talking about free press and communism. Only a handful of presidents have ever been masons, and of those, only a few were 33rd degree masons.

The levels don't indicate power OR dedication. It takes 2 days to go from the 3rd degree to the 32nd degree, they do it in a weekend. Some people choose to take their time and only see a few degrees each year. Some decide to do it all in that weekend. It takes far more work to apply and receive the 1st degree than it does the 32nd degree of the Scottish Rite. They just aren't level in any sense of the word - they are a numbering system. That is all.

CTs envision freemasonry as some sort of pyramid structure with 1st degree at the bottom and 33rd degree at the top. The only place such a structure exists is in CT fantasy worlds. In reality, the 3rd degree is the highest masonic degree at all levels. In many places outside of the US people haven't even HEARD of the Scottish Rite.

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Old 4th October 2009, 04:21 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
You know, the Nazis hated the Freemasons as well.
Good company to be in in that regard. Too bad they were no more right than most conspiracy theorists
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