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Old 10th October 2009, 04:00 PM   #1
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911 Audio Debates Thread!

Hey all,

I became interested in 911 CT because I love listening to debates. The more debates I listen to, the more I go and look up the topics debated over and that is part of the reason why I started posting on JREF. Googling these topics kept sending me to old JREF threads.

The following are 14 different debates between various debunkers and various Truthers. They all very in quality (content wise), but I think that listening to these debates is a good way of getting people interested in the subject matter.


Richard Gage vs Ron Craig

This debate is pretty good. Ron Craig is an explosives expert and every response he gives to Gage is super concise and simple. Also the moderator was pretty fair, I read here that he was a Truther so I think it was pretty cool that despite his own opinion he stayed pretty neutral.

John Brown vs Kevin Barrett part 1. and part 2.

I made a thread about this guy John Brown a while back. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds Barrett as annoying as all hell and these mp3s only support that opinion. He says over and over and over that no one will want to debate him and I guess John Brown is the one debunker who he hasn't said should hang for treason.


John Brown vs the entire TM


John Brown again, only this time it is him against Steven Jones, Richard Gage and Tony Szamboti. And those are just the Truthers that I remember, I think there were more.


David Ray Griffin vs Chip Berlet


I think I know the reason why DRG is so sketchy about debating opponents of his claims and that reason rhymes with zip Chevrolet. Berlet does an awesome job in this debate. I caution people, this debate was back in 2004 and THE EXACT CLAIMS THAT ARE BEING USED STILL TO THIS DAY, are spewed out by DRG for the first part of the mp3.


Jack Beacon vs Chip Berlet


I don't think Berlet does as well in this debate as he did in the one with DRG. He kind of trails off on a tangent about antisemitism. Also it just seems like Beacon is there to promote his event he is going to have later on.


David Ray Griffin vs George Monbiot


The other reason why DRG is so smarmy yet scared of debating comes from across the pond. Monbiot is a British journalist and he seriously devastates Griffin in this one.


Michael Berger vs Matthew Rothschild


This one I haven't listened to in a long time. I think Berger comes across as the 'winner' in this debate. Berger who is not nearly as prominent as the other top TM folks is probably the best debater the TM's got. I'm surprised he isn't more known.

Michael Berger vs. SezMe part 1. and part 2.

Michael Berger again, this time against JREFer SezMe. Berger still comes off the way he does in the previous debate only this time I don't think he comes off as the 'winner'. SezMe keeps reminding Berger about how many people are needed in order to pull 911 off and this just makes Berger look like he is digging himself further and further into the ground. Especially when Reggie (the host) starts sighing when he knows that Berger just made a claim that would require hundreds more people to be in on the conspiracy.

Shyam Sunder vs Graham Macqueen

I feel bad because I don't recall too much about this debate. It seemed to have gone nowhere for me. I mainly put this one up because it features Sunder. I'm gonna listen to all these again to give more proper reviews at a later date.


Steven Jones vs Leslie Robertson


This one is pretty well rounded. Both Jones and Robertson are civil and it seems like a discussion more than a debate. You still get a great audio source of Robertson stating what he really thinks about the collapses.


Kevin Ryan vs Michael Shermer


Poor Michael Shermer. Shermer did awful in this because he just doesn't know a lot about the specific arguments of 911. He is a skeptic in general and can use common sense to show a person how 911 CT are absurd but we all know that that isn't enough to get a CT like Ryan shaking in his boots.


Loose Change vs Popular Mechanics


Avery and Bermas take on those evil yellow journalists at PM. The PM people sound like they know their stuff but the two issues that I have with this debate is that they were always on the defensive, they never got to ask Avery or Bermas any questions. Also it is super short.


Loose Change vs Mark Roberts


I think we all know about this one. Do I need to say the specifics?

Mike McConnell vs 3 Cincinnati Truthers part 1. and part 2.

McConnell is the epitome of talk radio hosts but he does pretty good against three Truthers. He uses some cheap arguments against the Truthers but I think over all he did a great job. It is also kind of funny listening to him getting frustrated with the Truthers for not knowing how to act on a talk radio show.

------

There are a couple more that I know of that I couldn't find today so I'm going to try and update this list as much as possible. And there were a lot in general that I didn't post because they aren't available as mp3s.

I would also LOVE it if any of you guys want to post reviews of these debates or links to other debates in any format and review them too if you want.

I also should thank all the sites that I mooched these links from. A lot of them were actually Truther sites so I commend the TM for being a great resource to find mp3s files of debates.
Also, the McConnell debate I found at JREFer Walter Ego's site which has A LOT of great videos and links to other 911 related stuffs.

p.s. Let me know if any links are dead or something, too!
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Old 10th October 2009, 04:02 PM   #2
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Adam Larson vs. the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man
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Old 10th October 2009, 04:10 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel View Post
What happened to part 1?

I like how in the related videos section there are all 911 Truth related videos and one 2 minute video of two girls French kissing...
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Old 10th October 2009, 04:33 PM   #4
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Gave v. Craig

Gage sounds like one of those infomercial hosts that just keeps plugging in dvd and website -- good lord, and truthers like this guy
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Old 10th October 2009, 04:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
Gave v. Craig

Gage sounds like one of those infomercial hosts that just keeps plugging in dvd and website -- good lord, and truthers like this guy
If you haven't listened to it all then you'll LOVE the very end of the show.
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Old 10th October 2009, 08:50 PM   #6
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Hey thanks for these KF. They are now on my iPod and I'll have a listen later.

The last couple of evenings I've been enjoying listening to some leading truther lights tearing their hair out about "disinformation" within the TM ranks. If you come across any media files related to that subject please let me know.


Compus
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Old 10th October 2009, 09:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by CompusMentus View Post
Hey thanks for these KF. They are now on my iPod and I'll have a listen later.

The last couple of evenings I've been enjoying listening to some leading truther lights tearing their hair out about "disinformation" within the TM ranks. If you come across any media files related to that subject please let me know.


Compus
You mean like bickering amongst Truthers? Here are a couple links that look promising, but I haven't listened to them:

Jonathon Moseley vs Alex Jones and Jim Fetzer

I think this is pretty funny. I don't listen to Alex Jones all that much, I didn't know that he did the whole Bill O'Reilly "fair and balanced" claim.

http://911underground.com/2007-01-17...nto_Fetzer.MP3

http://911underground.com/2007-11-27...deo_Fakery.MP3

Now I kind of want to listen to these ones. I heard one where Killtown was using Wag the Dog as evidence to support his bizarre claims...I don't think I should post that one though.
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Old 10th October 2009, 10:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
You mean like bickering amongst Truthers? Here are a couple links that look promising, but I haven't listened to them:

Thanks for these.

Call me strange but I just love to listen to the whacko infighting.

BTW the Mike McConnell interview with the 3 stooges was really good. One of the truthers he was savaging sounding uncannily like Peter Lorre, hilarious.


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Old 10th October 2009, 11:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by CompusMentus View Post
Thanks for these.

Call me strange but I just love to listen to the whacko infighting.

BTW the Mike McConnell interview with the 3 stooges was really good. One of the truthers he was savaging sounding uncannily like Peter Lorre, hilarious.


Compus

Haha, yeah I think that is the best way to describe that guy's voice. I just love McConnell telling them to talk into the microphones all the time, how they keep handing him papers and he yells, "We're doing a radio show! You can't just hand me something that is 20 pages in the middle of a show!"
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Old 10th October 2009, 11:03 PM   #10
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To clarify, the reason I have refused to debate Kevin Barrett is not his statement about how I should be hanged. It is because of his Holocaust Denial. BTW, I figured out how I can get you the debates I participated in; get a G-Mail account and I'll send them to you.
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Old 11th October 2009, 12:30 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
To clarify, the reason I have refused to debate Kevin Barrett is not his statement about how I should be hanged. It is because of his Holocaust Denial. BTW, I figured out how I can get you the debates I participated in; get a G-Mail account and I'll send them to you.
Sweet! I'll pm you my gmail account. Thanks!


Yeah Barrett is a pretty despicable guy. I can imagine many reasons why people wouldn't want to debate him and him being right on 911 sure as hell isn't one of them.
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Old 11th October 2009, 01:26 AM   #12
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Hah!

Just listened to the Alex Jones + Fetzer vs Moseley "debate". Is Moseley still around? First I've heard of him.

Alex Jones' statement that WTC7 fell at the "speed of an apple" was a real highlight brightening up my dull rainy Sunday morning. Mucho funno.

I'm surprised that Fetzer didn't have a brain embolism during this show. I could almost see his big bulging red chops as he blew a fuse with Moseley. Great stuff knife.


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Old 11th October 2009, 06:15 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post

David Ray Griffin vs George Monbiot


The other reason why DRG is so smarmy yet scared of debating comes from across the pond. Monbiot is a British journalist and he seriously devastates Griffin in this one.

Link no worky?
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Old 11th October 2009, 07:02 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Edx View Post
Link no worky?

Crap this is off to a great start...What you can do is right click the link and copy and paste it into a new page and it will show up.

I need to find replacement links or talk to the webmaster.
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Old 11th October 2009, 07:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
Crap this is off to a great start...What you can do is right click the link and copy and paste it into a new page and it will show up.

I need to find replacement links or talk to the webmaster.


I had probs too with the links, eg some of them resolved to a blank google page for some reason. I solved it by right click/copy link location and pasting that to a download manager. That way I could save the media direct to my system instead of listening to each in turn.


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Old 11th October 2009, 07:25 AM   #16
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KFC: I may not agree with your annotations on the debates I have heard, but this is a great idea, to have a thread which simply lists the more prominent ones that have occurred.

Like you, I'm a fan of the art of debate.

Here's a classic. Charles Goyette v. David Coburn from Popular Mechanics. I'd be interested to hear what you think about this one.

Let's see if this link works:
http://www.911podcasts.com/files/aud...0823-am-c3.MP3

If that doesn't work here's a site with the link to the interview:

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/19083/Char..._for_breakfast

ETA: On a more recent listen, I will concede it's not really a debate. It's more like a mugging.
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Old 11th October 2009, 10:56 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
KFC: I may not agree with your annotations on the debates I have heard, but this is a great idea, to have a thread which simply lists the more prominent ones that have occurred.

Like you, I'm a fan of the art of debate.

Here's a classic. Charles Goyette v. David Coburn from Popular Mechanics. I'd be interested to hear what you think about this one.

Let's see if this link works:
http://www.911podcasts.com/files/aud...0823-am-c3.MP3

If that doesn't work here's a site with the link to the interview:

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/19083/Char..._for_breakfast

ETA: On a more recent listen, I will concede it's not really a debate. It's more like a mugging.
Yeah calling these debates sometimes is stretching it a little. I think I have heard this one before as well. Is it the one where the host won't stop talking about how suspicious it is that they were able to get the hijackers DNA?
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Old 11th October 2009, 11:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
Yeah calling these debates sometimes is stretching it a little. I think I have heard this one before as well. Is it the one where the host won't stop talking about how suspicious it is that they were able to get the hijackers DNA?
Well, he's asking Coburn how they got hijacker DNA to match what they found.
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Old 11th October 2009, 12:27 PM   #19
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Talking

Thank you very much for posting these links! I too love listening to these debates, and I'm always on the lookout for ones I might have missed.

It was through this site I found the brilliant HardFire discussions featuring the infamous cardboard box Gage demonstration

Many lulz with that one. (Gravy you were great!)

Cheers!


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Old 12th October 2009, 12:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Well, he's asking Coburn how they got hijacker DNA to match what they found.
Yeah that one. I agree that even if it seemed like the odds were stacked against Coburn, he just didn't do a good job in general.

I'm interested in what you think about the DRG vs Chip Berlet debate. What did you think of that one?
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Old 12th October 2009, 12:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ScottyMate View Post
Thank you very much for posting these links! I too love listening to these debates, and I'm always on the lookout for ones I might have missed.

It was through this site I found the brilliant HardFire discussions featuring the infamous cardboard box Gage demonstration

Many lulz with that one. (Gravy you were great!)

Cheers!


Scott.
Oh yes. The host and Gage seemed like they were waiting the whole time just to do the cardboard box thing. They kept interrupting Gravy even when he made claims that Gage really should have answered and got away with changing the subject instead.
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Old 12th October 2009, 04:38 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
Yeah that one. I agree that even if it seemed like the odds were stacked against Coburn, he just didn't do a good job in general.

I'm interested in what you think about the DRG vs Chip Berlet debate. What did you think of that one?
I'll check it out later today when I have more time.
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Old 12th October 2009, 05:22 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
Yeah that one. I agree that even if it seemed like the odds were stacked against Coburn, he just didn't do a good job in general.
I'm interested in what you think about the DRG vs Chip Berlet debate. What did you think of that one?


For what it's worth here's my opinion of this one. I know you directed this at Red, hope you don't mind.

The host (Amy Goodman?) was professional and adroit, her introduction was somewhat slanted but she redeemed herself by asking very pertinent questions during the debate. Overall, civilised and politely conducted with hardly any cross-talk. A good example of how these events should be handled.

Those are the bones what about the meat?

DRG brings up many well-worn thoroughly-debunked truther canards (the debate is from 2004) ie the Put Options, OBL in Dubai Hospital, PNAC, Pentagon hole to small, fire doesn't bring down steel buildings, aircraft fuel doesn't explode, WTC7 fires were very small and died down quickly, freefall collapse to less than three storeys height, seismic evidence shows underground explosions, WTC steel shipped to Asia before it could be studied, concrete turned to dust..on and on and on. Despite all this, when asked (by the host) to name one structural engineer who refutes the "official story" he cannot do so.

Berlet, faced with this deluge of twoof, takes a good tack and concentrates on one or two of DRG's claims. He disputes the claim that aircraft fuel doesn't explode as it did on 9/11 (and rightly says this is easily disproven). The OBL Dubai hospital visit is dismissed, the sources for that story are anonymous the head of the hospital says it didn't happen. Berlet informs DRG that far from being a non-existent entity a certain pentagon crash witness (by the name of Winslow, I'm assuming that the DRG book claims he doesn't exist) is easliy located, he's a radio reporter in Washington. Berlet let's DRG know that he is relying on substandard research.

In reply DRG goes off on one a little, announcing that Berlet is just "picking holes" in the evidence. DRG asserts that it is the cumalative argument that matters. I find this theory amusing, I'm quite sure that Berlet, given time, could have debunked every one of DRG's claims.

Debunkers 1 Truthers 0


Compus

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Old 13th October 2009, 08:47 AM   #24
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I've been lurking for a while but figured it's time I'd actually pop in.

I appreciate the links and love listening to debates. I feel like I should be properly equipped with the correct information to handle stray truthers, given my field of study. Even one of the students in my lab, out of the blue, brought up how he thought 911CTs were somewhat compelling (it was basic LC v1,2 stuff so even I was able to refute pretty thoroughly).

So far, Mark Roberts v. Loose Change is my favorite debate on the subject.

Avery: "Science laws were shattered on the morning of 9/11"
<Mark disagrees>
Avery: "We'll have to agree to disagree..."

Yes. Let's agree to disagree as to whether the laws of physics were suspended in a way to support your "conspiracy hypothesis".

I actually was hoping that Mark Roberts would be at NECSS in September so I could meet him.
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Old 13th October 2009, 10:43 AM   #25
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I am thinking of setting up a website archive for 9/11 audio debates. I can't find a resource dedicated to these type of debates. I think it would be a nice little project, I'm at a bit of a loose end this week and bored stiff.

If anyone wants to help out post here or PM me. I'll put up the files already linked to above tonight and post the URL soon.


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Old 13th October 2009, 11:21 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
Yeah that one. I agree that even if it seemed like the odds were stacked against Coburn, he just didn't do a good job in general.

I'm interested in what you think about the DRG vs Chip Berlet debate. What did you think of that one?
The link for this debate is google's home page.
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Old 13th October 2009, 11:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
The link for this debate is google's home page.
Good. I thought it was just me.
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Old 13th October 2009, 11:36 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Good. I thought it was just me.
I even googled it and didn't come up with a link for the interview.
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Old 13th October 2009, 12:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
I even googled it and didn't come up with a link for the interview.

I had that problem too. Right click the faulty link, click copy link location and paste it to your browser address box.


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Old 13th October 2009, 12:07 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by CompusMentus
I had that problem too. Right click the faulty link, click copy link location and paste it to your browser address box.


Compus
Then File->"Save Page As..." if you want to save the mp3.

That part wasn't obvious to me.
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Old 13th October 2009, 04:31 PM   #31
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Yeah sorry guys, there is a little bit of a hassle going to the mp3s. The right clicking still works it seems though.

Compus, I'm down to help you out with the site! I have a few more that I think I could add to a collection.
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Old 13th October 2009, 05:15 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
Compus, I'm down to help you out with the site! I have a few more that I think I could add to a collection.

Great! Thanks. Put the links up here or PM me.

Ok I'm sorting out the mp3 tags on the files you posted they were messy. This makes it much easier for me to sort them. I've uploaded a fledgeling site HERE It's a free site so I can't really complain about the top ad banner. There's nothing linked ATM but I should be able to get 1 or 2 hours on it tomorrow.

Any ideas about the content, layout or anything please PM me.


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Old 14th October 2009, 11:32 AM   #33
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I've managed to tidy up the 9/11 Audio Debate site a bit and download a file or two SEE HERE

There have been problems with the host provider for the new site. Their FTP server is not responding they report problems on their homepage.

Please, can anyone recommend a free reliable webpage service provider? I need a fair amount of space (500mb+) plenty of bandwidth and preferably no ads. Does such a beast exist?


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Old 14th October 2009, 12:28 PM   #34
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I'll ask a friend of mine who literally IS the internet what he knows about good free website offers.


I was kind of hoping you were gonna set up a review section or something, I didn't know you wanted it to be supremely neutral.
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Old 14th October 2009, 12:40 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
a friend of mine who literally IS the internet.
WOW
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Old 14th October 2009, 01:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
I was kind of hoping you were gonna set up a review section or something, I didn't know you wanted it to be supremely neutral.
It would be great if your friend could help, thanks.

I did consider reviews etc they would be an interesting addition to the site.

But, the thing is, the door to both sides of the debate must be open. That means dealing with all the nuttiness involved. You and I both know what that means. Then there's the extra work involved. I think at the moment, the site should be neutral for the sake of expediency. For now I'd just like to get as many files sorted and up and available asap. Perhaps in the future it could be incorporated.

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Old 14th October 2009, 01:46 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by knife fight colobus View Post
I'll ask a friend of mine who literally IS the internet what he knows about good free website offers.
I was kind of hoping you were gonna set up a review section or something, I didn't know you wanted it to be supremely neutral.
Wow, Al Gore is your friend.



During an interview with Wolf Blitzer last in March 1999, Gore said, 'During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the internet.'
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Old 14th October 2009, 03:50 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Audible Click View Post
Wow, Al Gore is your friend.



During an interview with Wolf Blitzer last in March 1999, Gore said, 'During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the internet.'
Oh yes, I remember when Al Gore said he invented the internet. I also remember how important a Lock Box was to him as well.

Compus, yeah you make an excellent point. Sticking to the file collection sounds like the number one priority

Plus I figure a lot of the files will probably just be discussed here.
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Old 14th October 2009, 04:02 PM   #39
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Hello, I'm the internet.

So, you can try Google Sites and "attach" files to the site you create and make it publicly available. Or you can try creating a blog on Tumblr and uploading MP3 files in posts. Tumblr looks a lot nicer.
This site: http://www.filefreak.com/ has free 1GB of storage. I don't know if that'll be enough.
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Old 15th October 2009, 09:59 AM   #40
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An update on the 911debates site.

I've dived in at the deep end and lashed out a few quid for a domain and a webhost.

I'm a html noob and I've only just got to grips with FTP and all the other stuff.

The site is now up HERE there's only a couple of debates posted at present HERE. I would be grateful if someone could test out the server for speed etc.

I aim to upload tons of files within the next few days. I think it will a good resource for those interested in 9/11 conspiracy theories.


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