What's wrong with this picture?

Achán hiNidráne

Illuminator
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
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I stopped by American Science and Surplus this afternoon to see if I can find a set of cheap network cable crimpers when I noticed this new bit of signage:

7624_158696899442_533499442_2561782_6085252_n.jpg


Ugh! I know it's near Halloween and all, but does a store that sells science books, telescopes (I got my Dob from here.), lab equipment, and other educational toys do anyone a service by pandering to pseudoscientific stupidity?

I guess they've just lost a customer.:mad:
 
how much are their proton packs and ghost traps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_pack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters_(franchise)#Containment
and what prices do they quote for long term spook storage ?
:D
I have a level 4 haunting to deal with this weekend

Heh, I own the original West End Games Ghostbusters RPG and have many a fond memory of playing it as a goofy teenager.

The trouble is since becoming a skeptic I really can't look at that game or even the movie the same way anymore. Fantasy gaming I can enjoy because "magic" is more or less an assumption of the setting like FTL drives are an assumption of most sci-fi settings. Cthulhu Mythos-based games redeem themselves via the nihilistic horror they convey. However, most "modern" magic or supernatural games seem to imply that magic is real in this day and age, that special "individuals" are the ones who can tap into it, and the mean-old skeptics with the rationality and science are full of it.

Marky don't play that.

WALTER PECK LIVES!!!
 
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The only thing wrong with this picture is that the prices are too low. Money is money, and if a bunch of sucke...er, enthusiasts, want to spend their money on this, then why not? I'd be happy to relieve them of their cash.

Michael

ETA: dropzone beat me to it.
 
this is an e mail I received 4 years ago
Hey Marduk,

Bet you have been asked this before... Just been watching Ghostbusters, and picked up on something that hadn't registered before. Gozer the Gozarian (and the minions Zuul and Vinscortho) is referred to as a Sumerian/Babylonian god... is this fact, or spurious Hollywood clap-trap?


Cheers,
*********

my reply
hi

Gozer is hebrew
it means "he who performs circumcisions"
seriously
in the original script they had Tiamat as the name but had to drop it for fear of breaching Dungeons and dragons copyright where Tiamat is a central character
Zuul who in the film is described as the gatekeeper of Gozer is also made up by hollywood
the only gatekeeper who appears in Sumerian mythology is "Neti" who is the gatekeeper of the underworld who appears in "the descent of inanna"
as for vince clortho the keymaster
well locks hadn't been invented then
so could you work out the spuriability on that one yourself

M
made me lol at the time and this thread seems appropriate for a share
:D

recently
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5225373&postcount=7
:p
 
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Wait a minute? It's all right for people to be sold a load of crap just because the seller will turn a profit?

I guess it's OK for Peter Popoff, Sylvia Browne, and Benny Hinn to fleece the masses. After all, they're making money hand over fist! More power to them!
 
Anyone who knows AS&S knows they sell stuff with a dry, "this is what the manufacturer advertised" approach. They sell surplus and discontinued stuff, mostly.

EMF meters and IR thermometers seem to be defacto items for people looking for ghosts. Makes sense to sell them to people with the money to buy them. I'm sure people wanting to measure temperatures of remote surfaces, and EM fields for non-ghost-hunting applications will buy them as well.

I can't believe you have ever seen Jarvis and can act like this is a really serious matter.

Beanbag
 
It gets worse. If you look on their home page, they are selling supplies to kill robotic vampires!!!
Stake Frites

Direct from the French army, these giant steel tent stakes are scary big. They're T-bars approx 2 feet long x 1-5/8", tapered at one end. A pair of 7/8" dia rods extends 2-3/4" from each side near the top. Large enough for circus tents, or driving through the heart of a really large robotic vampire.
 
I stopped by American Science and Surplus this afternoon to see if I can find a set of cheap network cable crimpers when I noticed this new bit of signage:

[qimg]http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs229.snc1/7624_158696899442_533499442_2561782_6085252_n.jpg[/qimg]

Ugh! I know it's near Halloween and all, but does a store that sells science books, telescopes (I got my Dob from here.), lab equipment, and other educational toys do anyone a service by pandering to pseudoscientific stupidity?

I guess they've just lost a customer.:mad:

Hey, business is business, and when you've got a ready-made group of gullible potential customers...
 
Not any different from the Fetus Sex Detector Kit or the Toxin Cleansing Foot Pads they sell almost everywhere around my neck of the woods, is it?
 
What's wrong with the picture?

Well, unless it's my monitor, I'd say it's under-exposed by a full stop, at least, and the composition could be a whole lot better. Focus isn't bad though.

Need more?!
 
I can't believe this!

You people have the gall to call yourselves "skeptics?"

Why, is the pic fake? Did you photoshop the ghostbuster kit on there as a hoax, and everyone that replied bought into it?

What does skepticism have to do with whether or not it is ok to label an IR thermometer and EMF meter as a ghost buster kit? Those are the items that they have on the show, and if the public wants to buy them for that purpose, why not? BTW, You do know that those items do have other uses, right?
 
What does skepticism have to do with whether or not it is ok to label an IR thermometer and EMF meter as a ghost buster kit?

THERE ARE NO SUCH FRACKING THINGS AS GHOSTS!!!

AS&S is attempting to profit off people's credulity and spreading the belief in the supernatural among the public the same way that Geller, Browne, Edwards, and other con-artists have done.

DUH!
 
Did you bring this up to the store owner, or just passively register your displeasure by telling yourself that you won't go there anymore?

I know that there was a "science" store near where I live, and when I went in there, much to my dismay, it was a full on woo woo store (crystals, auras, etc.). I immedieately asked to speak to the owner and explained to him that this was not in any way "science" and it could even be false advertising. I noted with pleasure that his sotre is now a "paranormal" store. Small victory.
 
I know that there was a "science" store near where I live, and when I went in there, much to my dismay, it was a full on woo woo store (crystals, auras, etc.). I immedieately asked to speak to the owner and explained to him that this was not in any way "science" and it could even be false advertising. I noted with pleasure that his sotre is now a "paranormal" store. Small victory.
You reckon? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that his turnover's sky rocketed!
 
I don't see what your flap is about. Yeah, I agree that ghosts don't exist. However, there are people who want to hunt them (or at least look for them). AS&S isn't making claims about ghosts existing -- they're selling the gear that other people who look for evidence of paranormal have suggested might be useful.

Jeez. Lighten up. It's a Halloween thing. Why not gripe about all the woo-ghostly-spirity stuff WalMart is selling?

(FWIW, I think you're taking AS&S's sign WAY too seriously; certainly more than I think the people at AS&S do)

Beanbag
 
AS&S isn't making claims about ghosts existing -- they're selling the gear that other people who look for evidence of paranormal have suggested might be useful.

If they weren't making claims about ghosts, why bring up "Ghost Hunting" at all?

Jeez. Lighten up. It's a Halloween thing. Why not gripe about all the woo-ghostly-spirity stuff WalMart is selling?

WalMart isn't making claims that ghosts and goblins exist.

Besides, unlike others on this forum, I give a damn about reality, how the religous and the con-men distort it, and how the knuckle-dragging masses swallow it.
 
WalMart isn't making claims that ghosts and goblins exist.
As I said, neither is AS&S.

Santa Claus doesn't exist. WalMart seems to do an awful lot of "Holiday Season" marketing with pictures of the jolly old elf.

End of my participation. This is obviously a hot-button issue with you, and I will accept that you probably have good reasons.

Beanbag
 
For what little good it's going to do me, I have e-mailed the following to AS&S:

Dear Sir or Madame:

I have been an satisfied AS&S customer for many years now. I have purchased my first Dobsonian telescope from your store, and your friendly staff helped me adjust its collimation. I have shopped AS&S for tools and neodymium magnets for hobby projects as well as any gadgets or novelties that tickled my fancy. However, I fear that you're most recent signage at your Milwaukee store, advertising "Ghost Hunting Equipment," has forced me to reconsider my future patronage.

I find it very disingenuous for an establishment that claims to promote science education giving credence to pseudoscience. Science education in our country has enough to deal with from budgetary cut backs to right-wing religious zealots trying to pass Bronze Age fairy tales off as biology. It doesn't need anymore nonsense further corroding it, especially by those who are supposed to be championing it. America is awash in superstition, credulity and magical thinking, a problem that is dragging our civilization downward into ignorance. This trend isn't helped by the con-artists who sell themselves off as "psychics" or "faith healers," celebrities that try to advocate "alternative medicine" and drive the fearful and uneducated away from actual medical treatments, or a "science" store that tries to sell spiritualist malarkey wrapped in a scientific facade.

While I am well aware that it's near Halloween, I don't think that's much of an excuse. It's one thing to tell ghost stories, it quite another to claim that they are real. I can't tell you how to run your business, but I can decide where to spend my money. I can not in good conscious spend it at a store that condones this sort of irrationality in what is supposed to be a "modern" age.


Cordially,
Mark A. Siefert
 
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That's a nice letter Mark.

But did you miss my link where they recommend some tent stakes for killing robotic zombies? Their catalogs are full of this kind of stuff. It's tongue in cheek.

I don't know if their sign was meant tongue in cheek or not, but it would be right in line with the rest of their catalog if it was.
 
But did you miss my link where they recommend some tent stakes for killing robotic zombies?

I have to say, I see a qualitative difference between the two. The line in the catalog is clearly a joke. A metal tent stake to kill robotic zombies. It's playing on the earlier statement that the stake is particularly large.

But the ghost hunting gear, in a world where the "Syfy" channel has a Ghost Hunters program and the Discovery channel has just started a new Ghost Lab program, plus the other crap out there like the Ghost Whisperer (that at least purports to be fiction), in such a context it looks as if this store is jumping on the bandwagon.

At the least, someone seeing the sign might think the imprimatur of science was being given to ghost hunting, and there's no danger of that with the wacky line in the catalog about robotic zombies.
 
Mark,

Dowsing, searching for ghosts, ufos, and bigfoot are all, I imagine, exciting pastimes - much like metal detecting - that lead to, at best, an increased knowledge of electronics and possible scepticism, and, at worst, mild disappointment and wasted weekends.

Alternative medicine, faith healers and psychics are an entirely different kettle of fish.
 
You reckon? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that his turnover's sky rocketed!


True... How about I just call it a personal victory based on proper labels of what his store really was about? :p At least no one is walking into the "paranormal" store looking for a telescope or something.
 
Mark, one thing that you should consider while picking your battles is how much of a JA you will come off as. You come in here, with this silly little annoyance of AS&S, and when no one sees it as abysmal you flip out on everyone. Then you continue to not listen to the other side of the conversation, and finally you write a letter, making yourself look like even more of a JA.

It is not a big deal, no one here sees it as a big deal, maybe there is something YOU are not getting that the rest of the thread participants do?
 
Mark, one thing that you should consider while picking your battles is how much of a JA you will come off as.

Better to be a jackass than a hypocrite.

You come in here, with this silly little annoyance of AS&S, and when no one sees it as abysmal you flip out on everyone. Then you continue to not listen to the other side of the conversation, and finally you write a letter, making yourself look like even more of a JA.

It is not a big deal, no one here sees it as a big deal, maybe there is something YOU are not getting that the rest of the thread participants do?

No big deal? NO BIG DEAL?!

I suppose when you can buy homeopathic cures or copies of Natural Cures THEY Don't Want You To Know About at the local Walgreens, that's no big deal. Yet, Randi is allowed to complain about that!

I guess multi-level marketing scams are "no big deal" too. Yet Brian Dunning can lambast them on Skeptoid. (He also attacked ghost hunting on that podcast as well. So did Penn & Teller on Bulls**T. Were they making much ado about nothing?)

Creationism must be "no big deal" either. so Phil Plaitt and P. Z. Meyers should stop talking about the topic on their respective blogs?

What separates my concerns from their concerns? They are the same! If any of the individuals I mentioned about would have posted that picture, they wouldn't be shrugged off. It it because I don't have a podcast, or a TV show, or a skeptical organization to my name? Is it because I don't hob-knob with the skeptical stars at TAM or make massive donations to the JREF?

Who do have to I suck up to? Plaitt? Wagg? Bidlack? You? Whose posterior do I have to kiss to be taken seriously around here?
 
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I suppose when you can buy homeopathic cures or copies of Natural Cures THEY Don't Want You To Know About at the local Walgreens, that's no big deal. Yet, Randi is allowed to complain about that!
Strawman.
No one is at risk of dying because of believing that an IR meter will aid in ghost hunting.

I guess multi-level marketing scams "no big deal" too. Yet Brian Dunning can lambast them on Skeptoid. (He also attacked ghost hunting on that podcast as well. So did Penn & Teller on Bulls**T. Were they making much ado about nothing?)
Strawman.
I saw the show, and yes, I think ghost hunters are BS, but what does that have to do with this store selling IR meters, under the comical title "ghost hunter kit?"

Creationism must be "no big deal" either. so Phil Plaitt and P. Z. Meyers should stop talking about the topic on their respective blogs?
Strawman

Many of us believe that it is not a valid science, and should not be forced on the public. Doesn't mean everyone does. Those that don't feel that way can also have their say. Many chose to talk about it. Some disagree. That is what you see in these types of forums. What you see in this thread, is that the general consensus is that you are blowing things way out of proportion. The system works, believe in it.

What separates my concerns from their concerns? They are the same! If any of the individuals I mentioned about would have posted that picture, they wouldn't be shrugged off.
That is what you believe. I don't. I have spoken out against things Randi has done before, I also lauded him for things he has done before. Sounds like you are upset that the supposed "sheep" aren't bleating to your tune. Again, lighten up.

It it because I don't have a podcast, or a TV show, or a skeptical organization to my name? Is it because I don't hob-knob with the skeptical stars at TAM or make massive donations to the JREF?
Sorry we aren't bowing down to your superiority dude. JC, get a life.

Who do have to I suck up to? Plaitt? Wagg? Bidlack? You? Whose posterior do I have to kiss to be taken seriously around here?

How about just make a rational point that people can agree with, instead of just, "look at this it is wrong, you are wrong for not thinking it is wrong, what is wrong with you people."
 
Wait a minute? It's all right for people to be sold a load of crap just because the seller will turn a profit?

If the alternative is to go out of business, then, well...

It's good to have principles, but the owners and employees still have to feed their families in a tough economy.

Maybe it's time we reconsider Communism.
 
If I wanted to do a bit of ghost-hunting, I'd disregard the electronics and go for the Winchester boy's favorite, a sawed-off 12 gauge loaded with rock salt.
 
If I wanted to do a bit of ghost-hunting, I'd disregard the electronics and go for the Winchester boy's favorite, a sawed-off 12 gauge loaded with rock salt.

Make sure it is organic rock salt.

how are you going to find the ghosts? Maybe you better head over to AS&S, I hear they have a great ghost hunting kit.
 

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