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Old 27th November 2009, 01:12 PM   #1
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PTF Claims: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENT

Just saw this posted at another site. Should be interesting.

"On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]"


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/i...howtopic=18405
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:14 PM   #2
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and the source for this stunning news is??????????

http://warrenstutt.com/index.html

wow...that's quite a web page. and I just went through the FDR report provided by the NTSB.

it says NOTHING about the door never opening.

another quick and certain Truther fail. oh well.

..I just emailed the guy. lets see what he has to say for himself.

Last edited by Thunder; 27th November 2009 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:16 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
and the source for this stunning news is??????????
Apparently its here

http://www.warrenstutt.com/AAL77FDRD...htComplete.csv
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:23 PM   #4
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im not gonna download some strange guys huge excel spreadsheet.
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:27 PM   #5
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A door? That guy can't be serious!
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:31 PM   #6
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you had me (laughing) at "PFT"!

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Old 27th November 2009, 01:31 PM   #7
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and the author of this web page, is a JREF member. wstutt is his user name.

i sent him a PM asking for his incredible evidence.

for the sake of 9-11 Truth, I hope this isn't just another twoofer lie.

Last edited by Thunder; 27th November 2009 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:35 PM   #8
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This one is gonna be good. I imagine Captain Bob is having a premature ejaculation over this one.

I await to see this overwhelming evidence presented ANYWHERE!

lol

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Old 27th November 2009, 01:38 PM   #9
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one must now ask "why didn't the author of this info, who is a JREF member, simply post it on JREF himself?"

I predict some truthers may be over-stating and exaggerating this guy's research. if this is the case, I feel bad for him.
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:44 PM   #10
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well, the folks at P4T are indeed claiming that the 77 FDR says the flight deck door was never opened during the time the govt. says the pilots were attacked.

if they can PROVE this, it would be interesting.

but i have faith that the geniuses here at JREF will be able to logically and conclusively pull this new BS apart, forthwith.

Last edited by Thunder; 27th November 2009 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:45 PM   #11
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the switch couldn't possibly have failed ?
Or jammed?
To many attempts at finding i's without dots and uncrossed T's
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:50 PM   #12
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I'm willing to bet that the hijackers waited til 1 of the flight attendants to open the cockpit door.

I remember reading about how frightened 1 of the attendants were when she came back to talk with the other attendant.

Damn! I need to find that source again!

Last edited by 9/11 Chewy Defense; 27th November 2009 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 01:54 PM   #13
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P4T is stated that the cockpit door was NEVER opened once the plane took off.

"On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]"

ok JREF. lets prove these guys wrong...again.

honestly, is it reasonable to accept that pre-911, a cockpit door would not ONCE be opened during flight?

what reason would they have to never open it?

Last edited by Thunder; 27th November 2009 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:04 PM   #14
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Renee May & Barbara Olson were the flight attendants on Flight 77.

1 of them probably opened the cockpit door & that's when the terrorist made their jump towards the cockpit. Probably was Renee May since she called her mother & told her about the hijacking then told them to contact American Airlines. Further research needs to be done.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
P4T is stated that the cockpit door was NEVER opened once the plane took off.
Is use of the cockpit door recorded on any of the data recorders?
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
Is use of the cockpit door recorded on any of the data recorders?
P4T claims it is...and it was NEVER opened during flight.

so they say.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 9/11 Chewy Defense View Post
Renee May & Barbara Olson were the flight attendants on Flight 77.
Barbara Olson was not a flight attendant, she was a passenger. She was also a lawyer and TV commentator, married to high-powered DC lawyer Theodore Olson who argued many cases before the SCOTUS.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Barbara Olson was not a flight attendant, she was a passenger. She was also a lawyer and TV commentator, married to high-powered DC lawyer Theodore Olson who argued many cases before the SCOTUS.
Ok! I must've had my mind some where else!

I hate holidays! And yes I'm a Scrooge sometimes!
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:21 PM   #19
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I'd be interested in learning how this function is recorded.

Might very well be the reason why you don't see an open event is they never closed the door to begin with.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:26 PM   #20
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That seems a bit odd... Why would they record whether or not an internal, non structural door was open or shut (pre-9/11 anyway)? From everything I've read or heard about the doors they were pretty flimsy until they were ordered to be beefed up post 9/11.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:30 PM   #21
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P4T claims that there is a parameter in the FDR that lists the cockpit door as closed "0" or open "1".

they claim that the status of this door was always "0". hence..how did the hijackers get in..if the the door was always closed?

hmmmmm......time for some hot chocolate!!
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:32 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
P4T claims that there is a parameter in the FDR that lists the cockpit door as closed "0" or open "1".

they claim that the status of this door was always "0". hence..how did the hijackers get in..if the the door was always closed?

hmmmmm......time for some hot chocolate!!
If it was always "0" then how did the pilots get in?
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:34 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
If it was always "0" then how did the pilots get in?
"0" after the plane took off. at least that is their assertion.

now, if the FDR has the cockpit door status as "0" during the entire recording, INCLUDING before take off, then clearly something is wrong with the FDR.

but I am sure that the good, honest folks at P4T checked to make sure the cockpit door was indeed open before take-off, so that the pilots could get in. otherwise, this data would be clearly faulty...and pretty useless..and great ammunition for another JREF smackdown!!!!

someone who has an active account over there, ask them if the door ever opened before take off. and while you are at it, ask them if the door EVER opened after take off. if the door was indeed open, just 10 minutes after the govt. says the hijackers burst in, then its meaningless and the govt. story is intact.

Last edited by Thunder; 27th November 2009 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:38 PM   #24
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<---smells a rat.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:46 PM   #25
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I just sent the following PM to the author of the research, wstutt, reported on by P4T:

"Pilots for Truth is arguing that according to your research, the FDR states that the cockpit door for flight 77 was NEVER opened after take-off. is this your assertion?

secondly, according to your research, does the FDR show the cockpit door ever opening? surely it has to open for the pilots to get in. and Id like to think the FDR starts recording before take-off.

if the FDR has no record of the door opening, then the data is clearly flawed, as the pilots had to get in somehow (they didn't climb through the windows like in the Dukes of Hazard)."

Last edited by Thunder; 27th November 2009 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 02:50 PM   #26
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Like I said, this one looks like a big laugh waiting to happen, at Captain Bob's expense.

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Old 27th November 2009, 02:51 PM   #27
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I trust nothing from him or his site. It would not surprise me if he tried to manipulate the FDR data to fit such a thing...like I said, we will see.

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Old 27th November 2009, 03:00 PM   #28
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hopefully the author will respond to my PM and clear this all up.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:19 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
secondly, according to your research, does the FDR show the cockpit door ever opening? surely it has to open for the pilots to get in. and Id like to think the FDR starts recording before take-off.

Looks like the FDR data begins about one minute before the altitude starts to increase. So the pilots would already be in the cockpit by that point.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:21 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
Looks like the FDR data begins about one minute before the altitude starts to increase. So the pilots would already be in the cockpit by that point.
that.....would be the case. so we can't use pre-flight data to see if the FDR's cockpit data was accurate.

I guess someone is just gonna have to go through the P4T research and see if they are correct.

is there any way to tell if the FDR was malfunctioning based on data?

lets hope I get a response to my PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:21 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
P4T is stated that the cockpit door was NEVER opened once the plane took off.

"On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]"

ok JREF. lets prove these guys wrong...again.

honestly, is it reasonable to accept that pre-911, a cockpit door would not ONCE be opened during flight?

what reason would they have to never open it?
Let's look at the big picture:

PFT claims that the FDR data has been faked/manipulated. If that's the case then the data contained in the fdr (including data relating to the cockpit door) can NOT be trusted.

If the data is legitimate, then in order for PFT to accept the door data as accurate, they must also accept the flight data as accurate, which means that they must condede that the plane hit the pentagon.

To the data itself...I suspect that the data in question was either not recorded (possibly this bit was reserved for a cockpit door sensor but not yet implemented at the time), or simply not included in this particular data set, hence the 0s.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:22 PM   #32
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Bring your earth shattering, WORLD CHANGING evidence to Ron Paul or Rush Limbaugh, or someone else with a real voice, and someone who can demand something be done.


Ya, right!!

Too funny

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Old 27th November 2009, 03:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
If the data is legitimate, then in order for PFT to accept the door data as accurate, they must also accept the flight data as accurate, which means that they must condede that the plane hit the pentagon.
one does not analyze data from an FDR that they do not believe is in the plane in question.

if they decide to stand by this new "evidence", they will have to concede that flight 77 did indeed hit the Pentagon.

one more victory for 9-11 Debunkers, done by 9-11 Truthers.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:33 PM   #34
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So it WAS a plane that hit the pentagon then?

Or did they plant the wrong FDR?
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:36 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by D Dub View Post
So it WAS a plane that hit the pentagon then?

Or did they plant the wrong FDR?
i this is indeed a planted FDR, then the NWO is not as smart as they think they are.

I guess the new truther idea is that the NWO planted a faulty FDR with bad data, in the Pentagon.


Last edited by Thunder; 27th November 2009 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:37 PM   #36
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Could the door have been kicked in leaving part of the frame in place, or broken he sensor?

Could the sensor be faulty/missing, how likely is it that it would be tested/ noticed during any servicing and if it was noticed would it be seen as essential to repair/replace (remembering this is pre-9/11)?

Was there a sensor at all, the fact that there's a parameter on the FDR does not mean there was a sensor?

How likely/unlikey was it for the door to remain shut during the first 1/2 hr of flght (again, remembering this is pre-9/11)?



Maybe some stupid in those questions but I don't know much about airlines and those are some of the questions I would be asking if I was on a mission to seek the truth.

EDIT: Just writing that last bit it's all become so clear to me now that truthers aren't looking for the truth, they 'know' the truth and grab onto anything however stupid that can be fit in to their weird ideas and if they did try to question it then they'd be admitting to themselves the possibility that it wasn't an inside job.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
PFT claims that the FDR data has been faked/manipulated. If that's the case then the data contained in the fdr (including data relating to the cockpit door) can NOT be trusted.

If the data is legitimate, then in order for PFT to accept the door data as accurate, they must also accept the flight data as accurate, which means that they must condede that the plane hit the pentagon.
That's because First Officer Bob, I mean PfT , cherry picks his information. You should not confuse him with inconvenient facts.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
Looks like the FDR data begins about one minute before the altitude starts to increase. So the pilots would already be in the cockpit by that point.
I'm down loading the file now. Do they show any time before the flight that the door ever shows open? I know the FDR does cover previous flights.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:43 PM   #39
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Quote:
To the data itself...I suspect that the data in question was either not recorded (possibly this bit was reserved for a cockpit door sensor but not yet implemented at the time), or simply not included in this particular data set, hence the 0s.
Sounds perfectly possible to me.
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Old 27th November 2009, 03:46 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by alexi_drago View Post
Maybe some stupid in those questiions but I don't know much about airlines and those are some of the questions I would be asking if I was on a mission to seek the truth.
if I was P4T, I would want to completely rule out any benign explanations for the doors never being opened, before I announce these new amazing finding before the world.

I hope they haven't scheduled their interviews with CNN or BBC just yet.

Last edited by Thunder; 27th November 2009 at 03:47 PM.
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