IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 13th December 2009, 12:49 PM   #1
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Natural immunity vs. vaccination

Quote:
They are not questioning pharma. They are questioning reality. They are not questioning anything, they are making things up.
I'd suggest reading an vaccine pamphlet. IF even pharma can admit the risks associated with vaccines surely you can to.

Mod InfoSplit from: Referral to a Naturopath by a doctor.
Posted By:Gaspode

Last edited by Gaspode; 14th December 2009 at 07:10 AM.
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 12:55 PM   #2
Ivor the Engineer
Philosopher
 
Ivor the Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9,536
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
I'd suggest reading an vaccine pamphlet. IF even pharma can admit the risks associated with vaccines surely you can to.
What is/are the alt-med alternative(s) to vaccines?
Ivor the Engineer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:01 PM   #3
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
I'd suggest reading an vaccine pamphlet. IF even pharma can admit the risks associated with vaccines surely you can to.
I know the risks of vaccines. It is clearly provided by the Pharma companies, CDC, FDA and a multitude of local health Department.

So what are the risks do anti-vaxxers worried about again? The made up ones. The ones that reality shows does not exist that anti-vaxxers continue to claim is being hidden by everyone.
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:02 PM   #4
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Why do you need an alternative? I'd suggest boosting immunity as oppose to taxing it.
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:03 PM   #5
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
This did not answer the question.
I already did. Questioning is fine but Anti-vaxxers and Naturopaths believe in their nonsense no matter the evidence presented or is available. They believe in nonsense.
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:04 PM   #6
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Why do you need an alternative? I'd suggest boosting immunity as oppose to taxing it.
And this is an unevidenced based belief magic belief contradicted by decades of immunological research. Do you know how vaccines or the immune system even work?
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:04 PM   #7
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Quote:
So what are the risks do anti-vaxxers worried about again? The made up ones. The ones that reality shows does not exist that anti-vaxxers continue to claim is being hidden by everyone.
I never claimed the risks are hidden. I'm sure I said they were in the vaccines pamphlets.
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:05 PM   #8
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Quote:
And this is an unevidenced based belief magic belief contradicted by decades of immunological research. Do you know how vaccines or the immune system even work?
What exactly are you referring to?
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:06 PM   #9
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
I never claimed the risks are hidden. I'm sure I said they were in the vaccines pamphlets.
So what are the anti-vaxxers worried about again?

It was your analogy. So what makes their hatred and fears equally valid as a patient with questions?
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:07 PM   #10
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Why do you need an alternative? I'd suggest boosting immunity as oppose to taxing it.
So tell me how the immune system works. Why would "boosting" the immune system be relevant when we are talking about vaccines?
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:19 PM   #11
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
I was asked what the alternative to getting vaccines would be. I asked why we needed one.
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:25 PM   #12
Ivor the Engineer
Philosopher
 
Ivor the Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9,536
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Why do you need an alternative? I'd suggest boosting immunity as oppose to taxing it.
Do vaccines boost immunity?

How do you believe immunity is boosted?
Ivor the Engineer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 01:26 PM   #13
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
I was asked what the alternative to getting vaccines would be. I asked why we needed one.
Yes you did. You made a claim about "boosting" the immune system as a reply. So tell me how the immune system works and how you would "boost" it?

Which component would you like to "boost"? The Cell Mediated component? The B-Cell or T-Cell part?
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 03:21 PM   #14
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,322
Come Witchy, give us an natural alternative tto vaccinations.

We are all listening and willing to learn.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 03:26 PM   #15
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
And again, why would one need an alternative? I believe in natural immunity.
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 03:28 PM   #16
drkitten
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,629
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
And again, why would one need an alternative? I believe in natural immunity.
My niece believes in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Is there any better evidence for natural immunity than there is for Santa?
drkitten is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 03:37 PM   #17
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 34,665
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
I believe in natural immunity.

Do you have any evidence that it works better than a placebo?
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 03:40 PM   #18
Rasmus
Philosopher
 
Rasmus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,372
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
And again, why would one need an alternative? I believe in natural immunity.
A million dead people can't have been wrong, can they?
-- (Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant)

So you believe that instead of preventing disease, we should let people get sick so that some will suffer and die and others will suffer and gain immunity.

Charming.
__________________
"Well, the religious community could not just make it up." - JetLeg
Rasmus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 04:25 PM   #19
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Evolution at its best!! May the fittest survive.
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 04:27 PM   #20
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 34,665
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Evolution at its best!! May the fittest survive.

Are you suggesting using naturopathy as a form of eugenics?
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 04:33 PM   #21
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Eugenics is selective breeding by the hand of man. I'm merely suggesting we let Nature take its course. Childhood diseases are relatively harmless and you get lifelong immunity and pass this on to your children.
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 04:34 PM   #22
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 34,665
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
...and pass this on to your children.

Evidence?
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 04:38 PM   #23
Madalch
The Jester
 
Madalch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,763
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Eugenics is selective breeding by the hand of man. I'm merely suggesting we let Nature take its course. Childhood diseases are relatively harmless and you get lifelong immunity and pass this on to your children.
Lifelong immunity is not passed on to your children. I had the mumps and chicken pox when I was a kid. So did my parents, and their parents.

Kids can still die from these "relatively harmless" diseases. You may think this is a good thing- Nature taking its course and all that. If so, I hope you never have kids.
__________________
As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius
It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker
Madalch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 04:48 PM   #24
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Ah, after reading my post I realize it did read that way. I never meant the children got 'lifelong' immunity. Children generally get immunity that last the first year, long enough for their own immune system to develop.

Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment. Oh I have kids, healthy robust and not vaccinated.
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 05:37 PM   #25
Estellea
Graduate Poster
 
Estellea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,305
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Eugenics is selective breeding by the hand of man. I'm merely suggesting we let Nature take its course. Childhood diseases are relatively harmless and you get lifelong immunity and pass this on to your children.
Opting for letting 'nature take its course' when there is a mechanism in place to prevent mortality is a form of eugenics.

Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Ah, after reading my post I realize it did read that way. I never meant the children got 'lifelong' immunity. Children generally get immunity that last the first year, long enough for their own immune system to develop.
Transplacental immunities do not last that long and infants are born with pretty functional immune systems, barring immune disorders. Most vaccine preventable diseases have higher mortality rates for infants with or without maternal immunities.

Quote:
Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment. Oh I have kids, healthy robust and not vaccinated.
Risk assessment that includes parsing the statistics properly.
Estellea is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 05:57 PM   #26
SezMe
post-pre-born
Moderator
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,178
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment. Oh I have kids, healthy robust and not vaccinated.
That's not the point. One can die from drinking water. The point is that a useful risk assessment has to evaluate the risks/rewards from all alternatives to make a reasoned choice. Sure kids have died from vaccines. Many, many other kids have had diseases prevented or minimized. THAT is the relevant risk assessment, not what you are doing.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 06:33 PM   #27
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
I'd suggest reading an vaccine pamphlet. IF even pharma can admit the risks associated with vaccines surely you can to.
Everything has risks.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 06:38 PM   #28
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Eugenics is selective breeding by the hand of man. I'm merely suggesting we let Nature take its course. Childhood diseases are relatively harmless and you get lifelong immunity and pass this on to your children.
Have you seen a case of herpetic encephalitis? Have you seen a child on a respirator because of a pneumonia secondary to a childhood disease? Have you seen a polio victim? How about someone suffering from Tetanus?

Your suggestions to others that we use "survival of the fittest" as a model for health care (which is what you are implying) tells me just about everything I need to know about where you are coming from.

The log cabin is thataway!

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 06:39 PM   #29
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Ah, after reading my post I realize it did read that way. I never meant the children got 'lifelong' immunity. Children generally get immunity that last the first year, long enough for their own immune system to develop.

Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment. Oh I have kids, healthy robust and not vaccinated.
Yes, nice of you to LEECH off the herd immunity my children and others have provided.

Well done.
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 06:57 PM   #30
paximperium
Penultimate Amazing
 
paximperium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,696
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment.
Yes. People have died with the use of vaccines. The science tells us this. The risk involved is about one in a million depending on the vaccine involved. There is a reason some vaccines are no longer use because of the risks do not balance out with the benefits. Rabies or Anthrax vaccines are examples. The recommendations for vaccines schedule tends to be very well support by the data and good risk assessment.

Here is the problem. From your posts here it is obvious, you don't have the faculties or knowledge to make an objective risk assessment. What you have is a dogma. You have presented no data or anything to support your claims, just insinuations and ignorance.

It is up to each individual to make their own judgments concerning the merits of vaccinations of medicines based on good information and knowledge. You have presented nonsense and ignorance as a basis for your beliefs. They are harmful and hence should be criticized as a danger to yourself, your family members and society.
__________________
"The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age." -Carl Sagan
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."-Terry Pratchett
paximperium is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 07:02 PM   #31
phoenixphire24
Scholar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Ah, after reading my post I realize it did read that way. I never meant the children got 'lifelong' immunity. Children generally get immunity that last the first year, long enough for their own immune system to develop.

Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment. Oh I have kids, healthy robust and not vaccinated.
People are also killed by airbags, but would you have them removed from cars? In fact, the chances that you or your children will be killed in a car accident even more than that, but do you still drive a car?

The chances of being hurt by a vaccine is minimal compared to the countless diseases that they prevent and the number of people that are kept healthy due to herd immunity because they are immune compromised. How would you feel if you killed someone because your children passed on their illness to someone that could not get a vaccine...oh wait, you seem to be fine with that.
phoenixphire24 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 07:36 PM   #32
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
I find it odd that the phrase 'herd immunity' has been thrown about. Obviously oblivious to the meaning of it. Herd immunity was coined for natural immunity. You can not attain herd immunity via vaccines because vaccines are not guaranteed.

Quote:
Opting for letting 'nature take its course' when there is a mechanism in place to prevent mortality is a form of eugenics.
There is no guarantee with vaccines. this is a false statement.

Quote:
Risk assessment that includes parsing the statistics properly.
Personal risk assessment is exactly what it says...personal. Those stats will include personal family history. Only the individual can risk assess their own situation.

Quote:
THAT is the relevant risk assessment, not what you are doing.
you do not know me or my situation so your opinion matters none.

Quote:
Your suggestions to others that we use "survival of the fittest" as a model for health care
I never suggested anyone deviate from what they are doing. I was asked what I thought an alternative to vaccines would be and I replied with, why do I need an alternative? and then voiced that I believed in natural immunity. I never once asked you to follow me.

Quote:
Here is the problem. From your posts here it is obvious, you don't have the faculties or knowledge to make an objective risk assessment. What you have is a dogma. You have presented no data or anything to support your claims, just insinuations and ignorance.
It is up to each individual to make their own judgments concerning the merits of vaccinations of medicines based on good information and knowledge. You have presented nonsense and ignorance as a basis for your beliefs. They are harmful and hence should be criticized as a danger to yourself, your family members and society.
I'm not sure you are qualified to make any judgement calls on anyone. You can't even get a simple post right and then make up posts and claims that never existed.
__________________
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.
-Mark Twain

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
-Upton Sinclair
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 07:39 PM   #33
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,322
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Ah, after reading my post I realize it did read that way. I never meant the children got 'lifelong' immunity. Children generally get immunity that last the first year, long enough for their own immune system to develop.

Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment. Oh I have kids, healthy robust and not vaccinated.
I does not come down to "personal risk assessment". If your children go to school in Canada they must be vaccinated. By not vaccinating them you pose a risk to not only them but the rest of the community.

Vaccination has eliminated smallpox from the World not just for the healthy and robust but the sick and weak.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 07:58 PM   #34
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Quote:
does not come down to "personal risk assessment". If your children go to school in Canada they must be vaccinated.
Of course this a blatant lie. children can go to school without being vaccinated.
__________________
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.
-Mark Twain

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
-Upton Sinclair
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 08:15 PM   #35
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
 
Eos of the Eons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,626
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Ah, after reading my post I realize it did read that way. I never meant the children got 'lifelong' immunity. Children generally get immunity that last the first year, long enough for their own immune system to develop.

Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment. Oh I have kids, healthy robust and not vaccinated.
Wrong. Millions of kids are maimed and killed by diseases. They get sore arms from vaccines, and one in a million get a serious but treatable allergic reaction or other reaction they fully recover from when vaccinated. Getting a recoverable allergic reaction from a vaccine is preferable to death by measles.
__________________
Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it.
the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey
my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke
The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!
Eos of the Eons is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 08:19 PM   #36
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
 
Eos of the Eons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,626
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Ah, after reading my post I realize it did read that way. I never meant the children got 'lifelong' immunity. Children generally get immunity that last the first year, long enough for their own immune system to develop.

Kids have died and been maimed by vaccines themselves so I guess it comes down to personal risk assessment. Oh I have kids, healthy robust and not vaccinated.
They won't be so healthy or robust if you travel to a country where these diseases are still endemic. Why not try it out?

Vaccines cause a normal immune reaction, and build a natural immunity so people are not harmed by diseases. I pity your children for having a parent who is clueless about risk assessment.
__________________
Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it.
the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey
my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke
The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!
Eos of the Eons is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 08:23 PM   #37
Jeff Corey
New York Skeptic
 
Jeff Corey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,714
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
I find it odd that the phrase 'herd immunity' has been thrown about. Obviously oblivious to the meaning of it. Herd immunity was coined for natural immunity. You can not attain herd immunity via vaccines because vaccines are not guaranteed...
Real scientists disagree. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../318323a0.html
Jeff Corey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 08:29 PM   #38
WitchyWoman
Scholar
 
WitchyWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Quote:
Witchy Woman, could you please explain how you choose to boost immunity? Thanks
I would eat foods that bolster the immune system, garlic, pepper onions. Foods high in vitamins A,C,E, selenium and zinc. Juice regularly. Keep stress as low as possible and get regular exercise.

Supplements may be needed Vitamin D is a must and if you do feel a cold coming on Oil of oregano. I've found Oscillococcinum beneficial. Multi vitamin, essential fatty acids, greens, and a digestive enzyme.
__________________
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.
-Mark Twain

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
-Upton Sinclair
WitchyWoman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 08:32 PM   #39
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,322
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
Of course this a blatant lie. children can go to school without being vaccinated.
Sure they can. If you care to exhibit your anti-rational philosophy in an affidavit. And don't care about the damage to society.

Nice snippage by the way. How about my other points?
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2009, 08:35 PM   #40
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,322
Originally Posted by WitchyWoman View Post
I would eat foods that bolster the immune system, garlic, pepper onions. Foods high in vitamins A,C,E, selenium and zinc. Juice regularly. Keep stress as low as possible and get regular exercise.

Supplements may be needed Vitamin D is a must and if you do feel a cold coming on Oil of oregano. I've found Oscillococcinum beneficial. Multi vitamin, essential fatty acids, greens, and a digestive enzyme.
And when your kid steps on a rusty nail in a barnyard and then starts complaining about a sore neck do you have something specific against tetanus?
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:34 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.