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Tags atheism , david mabus , Dennis Markuze

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Old 22nd July 2012, 11:40 PM   #121
rjh01
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
You're just part of a friendly Pitchfork and Torch Carrying Club that happened to be in the area, right?





It's hardly surprising that your personal definition of stalking doesn't include the behaviour in which you are yourself indulging.





The public documentation is an end result. The stalking is what you do that leads up to you having something to document.





Stalking is OK as long as your victim remains unaware of it?





From your link:

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.
Glad you and I agree that I am not stalking David.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 11:44 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Malfie Henpox View Post
By threatening his freedom? In public? By stalking him and posting links to the very things you called spam?

Carry on then.
I agree with you Malfie. And for the record, I was threatened by an idiot on this forum. He was banned (more for being an idiot) but I did nothing further because I've lived my life in the belief that people who threaten will never carry out that threat. It's those who don't threaten you to worry about (or not)......
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Old 22nd July 2012, 11:48 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Glad you and I agree that I am not stalking David.


Your happiness is misplaced since it appears to be based on utterly failing to comprehend what my post actually said.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 11:52 PM   #124
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Pointing out and/or linking to somebody's public posts in a public forum is not "stalking".

Pointing out that he is engaging in activity which he has been ordered by a court not to engage in is not "threatening his freedom", because he is not legally free to engage in those activities.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 11:57 PM   #125
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Sorry but I can't see how reporting on someone's criminal activities can be considered stalking? Really don't understand where that claim is coming from? Anyone making that claim want to explain their reasoning?
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:01 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Pointing out and/or linking to somebody's public posts in a public forum is not "stalking".


Scouring Youtube looking for them is.


Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Pointing out that he is engaging in activity which he has been ordered by a court not to engage in is not "threatening his freedom", because he is not legally free to engage in those activities.


Pointing those activities out to the appropriate authorities is reasonable and responsible behaviour.

Posting about them (with links) on a public forum, not so much.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:06 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Sorry but I can't see how reporting on someone's criminal activities can be considered stalking?


Reporting a crime that one happens to witness or of which one is indeed the victim is the responsible thing to do.

Actively searching for crimes to report is something else.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:25 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Scouring Youtube looking for them is.
Define "scouring YouTube". Searching once? Searching for Mabus's name? Searching the word "skeptic"? Krelnik searching his own name and finding it as a tag on a Mabus-created video perhaps?

Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Pointing those activities out to the appropriate authorities is reasonable and responsible behaviour.

Posting about them (with links) on a public forum, not so much.
What makes it any different from posting about a convention you went to last week? Something being "irresponsible" implies there are potential negative consequences. What might those be in this case?

Krelnik isn't digging for dirt, peeking over his fence, or looking for some kind of innocuous behavior that he can spin as Mabus "violating his sentence"; the violation is blatant and definitive, and public. What's posted to YouTube is accessible and fair game to all.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:42 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Define "scouring YouTube". Searching once? Searching for Mabus's name? Searching the word "skeptic"? Krelnik searching his own name and finding it as a tag on a Mabus-created video perhaps?


None of those things.

Further, I have nothing negative at all to say about Krelnik's activities in relation to this matter and regard him as the obvious and logical point of contact and collator of information relating to Mabus' online activities.

As administrator of a forum which has been targeted by Mabus' I have in fact been party to passing along the appropriate information to Krelnik but not, I hasten to add, by posting the details on a public forum.


Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
What makes it any different from posting about a convention you went to last week?


A very wide range of factors, although I'd say the targeting of an individual is the biggest difference. If one's post about a recently-attended conference consisted entirely of a report on the activities of a single attendee then I'd have no trouble categorising that as stalkerish behaviour.


Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Something being "irresponsible" implies there are potential negative consequences. What might those be in this case?


Becoming indistinguishable from that which we are purporting to oppose.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:45 AM   #130
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rjh01, I think you showed a lack of judgement in posting that video in a public place.

Regards

Orph.

ETA: Ninja'd by a Zombie Mummy!
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Old 23rd July 2012, 01:09 AM   #131
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As I am not doing any search for David's name or any variation and it would be hard to make a case that posting about a person's activities in one thread is "obsessive attention" then I do not meet Akhenaten's rather strange definition of stalking. There are other ways of finding David's activities without even trying.

Maybe I should accuse myself of stalking myself as I do a regular search of my own name?

I think at this point I should laugh.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 01:14 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
rjh01, I think you showed a lack of judgement in posting that video in a public place.

Regards

Orph.

ETA: Ninja'd by a Zombie Mummy!
That is something it is possible to make a case about. However a lack of judgement is not what is being discussed. Stalking is being discussed.

a lack of judgement = a matter of opinion.
Stalking = a possible criminal matter.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 11:19 AM   #133
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I'm not going to address these ridiculous accusations that we are somehow "stalking" Mabus.

I would like to point out that unless you have actually had to administrate a system that is the target of spam and trolling, you have no idea how many person-hours a determined pest like "Mabus" can waste. He's easily cost the skeptical community thousands of person-hours over the last few years, those are hours of largely unpaid volunteer time that could have been spent on productive efforts but were not, because of one man's trolling.

So I really don't care whether his threats are credible or not. His actions come with a cost, and I would like to mitigate that cost.

If asking a court to enforce an order that Mabus entered into of his own free will is the best way to mitigate that cost, then so be it.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:13 PM   #134
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I agree somewhat in that you're not stalking the guy. As it appears what you are actually doing is stalking people who you think might be the guy.

Perhaps stalking is too strong a word though. If I substitute it for 'actively seeking the presence of', I think you'd have to agree, wouldn't you? Which seems odd, considering the apparent lengths folk went to to get rid of him. That it's also being done in public seems off to me. But my opinions count for little, I suppose. I'm just a guy on the internet.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:20 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Reporting a crime that one happens to witness or of which one is indeed the victim is the responsible thing to do.

Actively searching for crimes to report is something else.
That may well be but I don't see how you conclude that behaviour can be called stalking - "busybody" would be the most derogatory descriptor I could think of!
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Old 23rd July 2012, 04:31 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
I'm not going to address these ridiculous accusations that we are somehow "stalking" Mabus.


It appears that you are.


Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
I would like to point out that unless you have actually had to administrate a system that is the target of spam and trolling, you have no idea how many person-hours a determined pest like "Mabus" can waste.


As mentioned above, I am in that positition.


Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
He's easily cost the skeptical community thousands of person-hours over the last few years, those are hours of largely unpaid volunteer time that could have been spent on productive efforts but were not, because of one man's trolling.


One copes.


Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
So I really don't care whether his threats are credible or not. His actions come with a cost, and I would like to mitigate that cost.


OK.


Originally Posted by krelnik View Post
If asking a court to enforce an order that Mabus entered into of his own free will is the best way to mitigate that cost, then so be it.


Has anyone here suggested otherwise?
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Old 23rd July 2012, 04:32 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That may well be but I don't see how you conclude that behaviour can be called stalking - "busybody" would be the most derogatory descriptor I could think of!


Seems apt. I'll use that in future.
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Old 24th July 2012, 03:08 AM   #138
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I'm not sure it's wise having this thread in a public forum.
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Old 24th July 2012, 06:14 AM   #139
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I think it is 10000000% reasonable to have a way to inform people about a guy who threatened to behead them and countless others.

Is it a little bit of an invasion of his privacy. Mmmmmaybe... But he is a violent man who's privacy is only being violated (if one wishes to think of it that way) because he is now breaking the law.

So let's check out the math here...

There is a potentially violent person with no indication that he cares about the law or how his actions might affect others (i.e. that whole threat making thing).

So we should just...let him be.
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Old 24th July 2012, 06:36 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by I am Bigfoot View Post
I think it is 10000000% reasonable to have a way to inform people about a guy who threatened to behead them and countless others.

Is it a little bit of an invasion of his privacy. Mmmmmaybe... But he is a violent man who's privacy is only being violated (if one wishes to think of it that way) because he is now breaking the law.

So let's check out the math here...

There is a potentially violent person with no indication that he cares about the law or how his actions might affect others (i.e. that whole threat making thing).

So we should just...let him be.


That's some mighty fine hyperbole you have going there.

I think the "10000000%" was my favourite part.
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Old 24th July 2012, 06:52 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
That's some mighty fine hyperbole you have going there.

I think the "10000000%" was my favourite part.
Ok fine. 100%

But that's some mighty fine ignoring the rest of what I said. Keep it up.


ETA:
I retract my 100% and go back to my 10000000%. We have a person known to have no regard for the well-being of others, has threatened people, and seems to be easing back into his disturbed state again. I think it would be a pretty high priority to keep track of him. You can whine about hyperbole if you want, but I don't see how "hey that guy that wants to cut off your head is going back to his old ways" is in any way improper and could potentially save someone's life.

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Old 24th July 2012, 06:58 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by I am Bigfoot View Post
Ok fine. 100%

But that's some mighty fine ignoring the rest of what I said. Keep it up.


No worries. Consider it done.
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Old 24th July 2012, 07:02 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
No worries. Consider it done.
I'm glad you agree that you're wrong.
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Old 24th July 2012, 09:34 AM   #144
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Edited by Tricky:  Edited for rule 12.
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Old 5th August 2012, 02:52 AM   #145
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I think krelnik took the wrong end of the stick, unusually.
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Old 6th August 2012, 09:41 PM   #146
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Could somebody explain why a post I made here has been automatically moved? and to where?
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Old 6th August 2012, 09:57 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Andysnat View Post
Could somebody explain why a post I made here has been automatically moved? and to where?

The where I can answer, it's here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...87#post8512087
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Old 7th August 2012, 11:26 AM   #148
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Mabus is working the comments over at FreeThoughtBlogs this afternoon

http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatch...comment-135005
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Old 8th August 2012, 02:01 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I did nothing further because I've lived my life in the belief that people who threaten will never carry out that threat.
That sounds like a potentially dangerous belief. There are many people who will absolutely follow through on their threats. I've known some people like that in my life.

I think you are lucky to never have been threatened by one of them.
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Old 8th August 2012, 08:02 PM   #150
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There may be news on the Mabus front in the next few days. I will post something as soon as I have it, we are waiting to hear back from the police.

Ironically today is the one year anniversary of the blog post that started it all. (It was a chain of events set off by that blog which ultimately ended in his arrest).
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Old 20th August 2012, 08:17 AM   #151
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Has there been any new news?
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Old 21st August 2012, 09:27 AM   #152
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He's still posting over at the comments on FTB. Goading Randi.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/cristina.../#comment-2931

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Old 23rd August 2012, 08:49 AM   #153
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An interesting post appeared here on 28 July:

http://www.congregationofrealists.or...11699a544129ce

The poster specifically claims to be "Not Dennis Markuze - but a FAN!" I am skeptical of the idea that he has a fan.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 09:22 AM   #154
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We are waiting for a new article in the Montreal Gazette about the relevant authorities lack of action in enforcing the restrictions of his parole. It was supposed to be out a week ago but is apparently being held up by lawyers.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 11:05 AM   #155
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Yeah, the latest on that is the police told the paper they had gotten corrected information about what restrictions Mabus is under during his plea, so I think the paper is holding off publishing until they can act on that.

In other words, we are in "wait and see" mode again.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 03:24 PM   #156
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Just arrived over on the Straight Dope as well

*edited to removed link as he's been ID'd & the thread removed*

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Old 24th August 2012, 01:51 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Croydon Bob View Post
An interesting post appeared here on 28 July:

http://www.congregationofrealists.or...11699a544129ce

The poster specifically claims to be "Not Dennis Markuze - but a FAN!" I am skeptical of the idea that he has a fan.
I like the idea. Committing crimes and stating at the time "I'm not DrDave - just a fan"

What police force would suspect me after that?!
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Old 24th August 2012, 02:41 AM   #158
Croydon Bob
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Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
I like the idea. Committing crimes and stating at the time "I'm not DrDave - just a fan"

What police force would suspect me after that?!
Kirk Douglas leaps up and says: "It wasn't me, I'm not Sparticus, I'm just a fan."

Not quite so heroic.


[disclaimer: of course I don't know that it really was Markuze]
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Old 24th August 2012, 02:54 AM   #159
bindeweede
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A Mabus-style post appeared last night on the ASF and the tiny Skeps forum. Nothing threatening, just the usual Nostradamus/atheists/list of Youtube links.
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Old 24th August 2012, 02:57 AM   #160
DrDave
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Originally Posted by bindeweede View Post
A Mabus-style post appeared last night on the ASF and the tiny Skeps forum. Nothing threatening, just the usual Nostradamus/atheists/list of Youtube links.
Probably another fan...
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