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Old 28th December 2009, 02:36 PM   #81
Dr Adequate
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Originally Posted by GreyArea View Post
I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. Let me try again.

It sounds like you are making a distinction between your views and those of self-described conservatives who think that government shouldn't do any regulating, intervening, changing, or "doing" * at all.
But I have tried to make a clear distinction between me and them. This is why in my OP I said about every point: unless you have a good reason.

A good reason always trumps an abstract principle: that's what makes it a good reason rather than a bad one.
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Old 28th December 2009, 02:37 PM   #82
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Just a question Dr Adequate, are there any good reasons why homosexuals should be allowed to marry? If so, what are these good reasons?
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Old 28th December 2009, 02:42 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Just a question Dr Adequate, are there any good reasons why homosexuals should be allowed to marry?
Yes.

Quote:
If so, what are these good reasons?
It's a non-bigot thing; you wouldn't understand.
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Old 28th December 2009, 02:45 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Just a question Dr Adequate, are there any good reasons why homosexuals should be allowed to marry? If so, what are these good reasons?
Equal application of the law is always a good reason.
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Old 28th December 2009, 02:45 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Just a question Dr Adequate, are there any good reasons why homosexuals should be allowed to marry? If so, what are these good reasons?
Because it would annoy you. That's an excellent reason. Now get off my thread.
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Old 28th December 2009, 03:12 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Piscivore View Post
Yes.
Such as?

Quote:
It's a non-bigot thing; you wouldn't understand.
Now now.

I actually support giving homosexuals the right of civil marriage but only as long churches have the right to not wed homosexuals if the choose.
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Old 28th December 2009, 03:23 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Now now.

I actually support giving homosexuals the right of civil marriage but only as long churches have the right to not wed homosexuals if the choose.
Churches in the US already have the right to refuse to perform wedding ceremonies for couples they do not approve of.
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Old 28th December 2009, 03:27 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
Now please stop posting on my thread.
I don't think its your thread anymore, your noted principles were so empty/meaningless that something else filled the void in this thread.


In short: It's your fault.
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Old 28th December 2009, 03:30 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Such as?
Instead of me giving you reasons you can contradict or argue against, why don't you try and think of good reasons someone might hold that view?

Quote:
I actually support giving homosexuals the right of civil marriage but only as long churches have the right to not wed homosexuals if the choose.
Why?
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Old 28th December 2009, 03:32 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I actually support giving homosexuals the right of civil marriage but only as long churches have the right to not wed homosexuals if the choose.
Now that you've said it, I'm considering changing my position.
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Old 28th December 2009, 03:43 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by AWPrime View Post
I don't think its your thread anymore, your noted principles were so empty/meaningless ...
* drums fingers lightly on desk, waits *
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Old 28th December 2009, 04:09 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Just a question Dr Adequate, are there any good reasons why homosexuals should be allowed to marry? If so, what are these good reasons?
The distinction between your question and Dr. A's questions is of course that yours does not ask for a good reason why the government should intervene, but rather it asks, in effect, for a good reason why the government should not intervene.
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Old 28th December 2009, 04:09 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Piscivore View Post
Instead of me giving you reasons you can contradict or argue against, why don't you try and think of good reasons someone might hold that view?
That's not the way it works.

Quote:
Why?
Primarily because i don't want an largely ineffective form of sexual morality to decide who can marry.
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Old 28th December 2009, 04:12 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Snide View Post
The distinction between your question and Dr. A's questions is of course that yours does not ask for a good reason why the government should intervene, but rather it asks, in effect, for a good reason why the government should not intervene.
Sure, the Conservative question is 'well we haven't allowed gays to marry before so why should we allowed to marry now?'.
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Old 28th December 2009, 04:16 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
That's not the way it works.
Not if one is committed to never changing one's mind, no. So if you are unwilling to consider my point of view, I'm disinclined to tell you about it.

Quote:
Primarily because i don't want an largely ineffective form of sexual morality to decide who can marry.
What do you mean by "ineffective form of sexual morality"? Ineffective to what end?

What is the difference to you between "marriage" and a "civil union"?
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Old 28th December 2009, 04:29 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Snide View Post
The distinction between your question and Dr. A's questions is of course that yours does not ask for a good reason why the government should intervene, but rather it asks, in effect, for a good reason why the government should not intervene.
Someone got this thread back on topic!
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Old 28th December 2009, 04:34 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Piscivore View Post
Not if one is committed to never changing one's mind, no. So if you are unwilling to consider my point of view, I'm disinclined to tell you about it.
I'm not a mind reader. Just give me your reasons.

Quote:
What do you mean by "ineffective form of sexual morality"? Ineffective to what end?
Ineffective in the sense that it isn't related to what human beings really are and thus is ineffective in generating healthy family's, or at least not as effective as the religious are trying to make it out to be.

For example, if i remember correctly, 'atheistic' family's had lower divorce rates than Christan ones. So much for the god-fearing nuclear family.

Quote:
What is the difference to you between "marriage" and a "civil union"?
Where have i discussed civil unions? Personally i am against the whole concept.
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Old 28th December 2009, 04:38 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I'm not a mind reader. Just give me your reasons.



Ineffective in the sense that it isn't related to what human beings really are and thus is ineffective in generating healthy family's, or at least not as effective as the religious are trying to make it out to be.

For example, if i remember correctly, 'atheistic' family's had lower divorce rates than Christan ones. So much for the god-fearing nuclear family.



Where have i discussed civil unions? Personally i am against the whole concept.
If you go on trying to divert this thread into a discussion of your obsessions I shall break the habit of a lifetime and report you to the moderators.
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Old 28th December 2009, 04:39 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
If you go on trying to divert this thread into a discussion of your obsessions I shall break the habit of a lifetime and report you to the moderators.
The thread is actually about conservatism. Besides, i have actually reported this thread already.
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Old 28th December 2009, 05:00 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
The thread is actually about conservatism.
But not about your bizarre and unpleasant obsessions. If you were to decide that hitting aardvarks with hockey-sticks was part of conservatism according to your definition of the word, then that subject would not magically become relevant to my OP.

Quote:
Besides, i have actually reported this thread already.
Let me know how that works out for you.
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Old 28th December 2009, 05:10 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Where have i discussed civil unions? Personally i am against the whole concept.
Really?
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Just a question Dr Adequate, are there any good reasons why homosexuals should be allowed to marry? (Note that I suggested you present some, you remain unwilling to do so. This suggests you oppose it)
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I actually support giving homosexuals the right of civil marriage but only as long churches have the right to not wed homosexuals if the choose.
This also wants its own thread.
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Old 28th December 2009, 06:27 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
But not about your bizarre and unpleasant obsessions. If you were to decide that hitting aardvarks with hockey-sticks was part of conservatism according to your definition of the word, then that subject would not magically become relevant to my OP.
Unless there was a "good reason" for it.
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Old 28th December 2009, 06:35 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Besides, i have actually reported this thread already.
Let me know how that works out for you.

Here's how it worked out.
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Old 28th December 2009, 06:45 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by GeeMack View Post
Woah.
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Old 28th December 2009, 11:05 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
The thread is actually about conservatism. Besides, i have actually reported this thread already.
Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
Let me know how that works out for you.
Well, now you know drad. Looks like it worked out fine for Arcade. Is it working out for you? Perhaps you should have been a little more conservative with your insults, eh?
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Old 29th December 2009, 12:47 AM   #106
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I never did figure out what this thread was about.
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Old 29th December 2009, 12:50 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
Well, now you know drad. Looks like it worked out fine for Arcade. Is it working out for you? Perhaps you should have been a little more conservative with your insults, eh?
That's just classy.
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Old 29th December 2009, 04:40 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
Caw Caw Caw Caw :d
ftfy
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Old 29th December 2009, 04:57 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Piscivore View Post
That's just classy.
Dancing on someone's grave is always a good look. Well done RP.
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Old 29th December 2009, 01:35 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
You haven't really taken a stand you know. You have listed a bunch of extremely broad priciples that nobody disagrees with, and declared them "conservative".
Ah yes, such ambiguity in our terminology. Conservative is the handle embraced by those who fight any actual conserving at every turn.

Reagan and Bush both cut taxes while dramatically increasing spending. They also fought all attempts at confronting overpopulation, which is the greatest problem facing us and the root cause of global warming and countless other issues. Our current debacle is their legacy. Only under our newspeak version of conservative could either be considered as such.

While I disagree with the decision to ban drad, I'm about as sad to see him gone as he would have been if I were banned. (And I'm certain he would have taken a parting shot.) The very fact so many in FM have voiced their dismay over his departure, along with the disparaging, OT comments made in response to my reply in this thread, simply reconfirms my impression there is a cult of incivility on this forum. Surely none would argue drad was known for his civility or humility.
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Old 29th December 2009, 01:41 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
The very fact so many in FM have voiced their dismay over his departure, along with the disparaging, OT comments made in response to my reply in this thread, simply reconfirms my impression there is a cult of incivility on this forum.
Way to rise above your own conceptions of incivility:

Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
Well, now you know drad. Looks like it worked out fine for Arcade. Is it working out for you? Perhaps you should have been a little more conservative with your insults, eh?
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Old 29th December 2009, 01:48 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
Way to rise above your own conceptions of incivility:
King, it is actually funny as hell, in a macabre sort of way, that Dr A was done in by Arcade22's bait.

See "The Mouse That Roared" for a somewhat similar story.

DR
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Old 29th December 2009, 01:51 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
King, it is actually funny as hell, in a macabre sort of way, that Dr A was done in by Arcade22's bait.

See "The Mouse That Roared" for a somewhat similar story.

DR
Please don't tell me the Swedes have a nuke.
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Old 29th December 2009, 02:00 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
King, it is actually funny as hell, in a macabre sort of way, that Dr A was done in by Arcade22's bait.

See "The Mouse That Roared" for a somewhat similar story.

DR
If recursive prophet is going to call the forum a "cult of incivility" and then be uncivil, the classy thing for him to do is to don the cult robes.
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Old 29th December 2009, 02:57 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
Please don't tell me the Swedes have a nuke.
No, but it was a small mind/nation that was the victor over a larger mind/nation, as I tried to apply that coarse analogy.

Also, if the Swedes have nukes, good. Makes the game far more interesting.

DR
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Old 29th December 2009, 02:59 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
If recursive prophet is going to call the forum a "cult of incivility" and then be uncivil, the classy thing for him to do is to don the cult robes.
I didn't say the forum constituted a "cult of incivility" KM. I said there IS one here. Big difference. And would you really compare the level of incivility in my reply regarding a non-member as even approaching that regularly exhibited by drad during his tenure? If you went back to my first posts on this site you would find some unprovoked comments by him directed at me far more uncivil than anything I have stated in this thread. And I'm a member.

Might I suggest any who have similar comments as those made by Fiona, LK and KM, post them on the FM thread started to discuss drad's banning? I'm not part of the 'in crowd' at JREF. Therefore I won't respond to any further insults wrt my initial post based on rather droll, melodramatic presuppositions, less I get an infraction for doing so.
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Old 29th December 2009, 03:06 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
I didn't say the forum constituted a "cult of incivility" KM. I said there IS one here. Big difference. And would you really compare the level of incivility in my reply regarding a non-member as even approaching that regularly exhibited by drad during his tenure?
It was still uncivil. I'm sure I've been uncivil at times but at least I don't get on my high horse and act like I am outside of the "cult".

Quote:
If you went back to my first posts on this site you would find some unprovoked comments by him directed at me far more uncivil than anything I have stated in this thread.
Wouldn't surprise me.
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Old 29th December 2009, 03:07 PM   #118
GreyArea
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
Please don't tell me the Swedes have a nuke.
No, they chose a fighter jet instead.
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Old 30th December 2009, 06:31 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
Damn elves infecting us with their borg-like socialism. GO WORSHIP YOUR RED MASTER ELSEWHERE! FIND A NORTH POLE SERVER!
Oh, this guy is NOT red. By any standard known in Sweden. -Brownshirted more like.

I find him just as stupid as you do, but kindly do not lump myself and other decent Swedes in with him, even if you get angry. With my background in antiracist organisations I actually feel quite hurt when you - and other people in this and other threads - do that.
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Old 30th December 2009, 06:47 PM   #120
KingMerv00
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Originally Posted by whatthebutlersaw View Post
Oh, this guy is NOT red. By any standard known in Sweden. -Brownshirted more like.

I find him just as stupid as you do, but kindly do not lump myself and other decent Swedes in with him, even if you get angry. With my background in antiracist organisations I actually feel quite hurt when you - and other people in this and other threads - do that.
I wasn't being serious. I was parodying him by being racist against the elf he posted. ("Red Master"...North Pole...get it?)

I have nothing against Swedes I promise.
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