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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Bob Heironimus , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 18th January 2010, 09:08 AM   #161
SweatyYeti
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post

HAHAHA! My measurements are irrefutable! No one will ever be able refute them! HAHAHA!



HAHAHA! My measurements are irrefutable! No one will ever be able refute them! HAHAHA!

And no one will ever be able to SHOW that this overlay is significantly inaccurate...HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA!......






(Not even Pooper7.....or Vort! HAHAHA! )


This AG shows that mirror-imaging a human being can actually have a high degree of accuracy to it.....Bob's body-width doesn't change at the waist...






The same principle applies to Patty. Patty is 100% symmetrical...whether she's a real, live, "100% Perfectly Symmetrical Bigfoot", or a "100% Perfectly-Symmetrical-Bob-In-A-Suit".......mirror-imaging her body can produce an accurate look at her actual elbow-to-elbow length.

(Which just happens to far exceed Bob's....HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA! )
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th January 2010, 11:02 AM   #162
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Lens size differences, degree of digital compression, improper scaling between the two images, padded suit distorts location of actor within, mirror imaging distorts real dimension of the figure(s), blurred image distorts true size and shape, etc. etc.

Also, Access Denied wrote this in the UFO thread, and I find it a succinct explanation of Sweaty's major failing:

Quote:
... In science your “data” must be shared openly so that others may independently replicate it in order for your conclusions to be considered credible.
So... how did you derive those numbers, Sweaty-poo?
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Old 18th January 2010, 04:09 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What last nail in what coffin?

What are the other nails that are already in this coffin that you speak of?
1) The dearth of evidence that BF exists
2) The improbable timeline of the PGF
3) Patterson's history/inconsistencies/coincidences
4) Gimlin's inconsistencies
5) The confession of BH
6) Missing reels/footage
7) Film/trackway/footprint discrepancies
8) Patty's human proportions (BH fits)
want more?

I was actually speaking figuratively re the last nail. I don't necessarily agree with all of these nails, yet.

I understand your confusion since for you the coffin is in the ground. Your "hobby" lies in how & why the bigfooters keep supporting the PGF in spite of the coffin nails, correct?
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Old 18th January 2010, 04:34 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
So... how did you derive those numbers, Sweaty-poo?
Here is a picture of a real live Bigfoot. This Bigfoot is 8'2" with a shoulder width of 32". The collar bone is 27" long. This Bigfoot's elbow measures about 27-28" away from its backbone, with its arm swung-out at only a 40-45-degree angle, approximately. These numbers are irrefutable and nobody here will ever refute them, I promise.

BTW, do not bother asking me the method by which I established these numbers because nobody at the JREF will be allowed to verify them.

IRREFUTABLE! HAHAHA!
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Old 18th January 2010, 06:47 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
HAHAHA! My measurements are irrefutable! No one will ever be able refute them! HAHAHA!

And no one will ever be able to SHOW that this overlay is significantly inaccurate...HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA!HAHAHA!......[/i]


The Sisko needs some Ibuprofen...



These Rorshach's are pure idiocy. Sweaty, you have a Rorshach of Bob filmed from the front with a Rorschach of Patty that you before told us was Patty at 40° angle of view. Regardless what the exact angle was, it is not shot directly from behind. Where the image bisects at the shoulders is not along the spine, but rather to the left of it, creating an unreal thing with artificial wideness. Comparing that to a Rorschach of Bob is utter stupidity and completely meaningless.

Nevermind that the left elbow of the P7S seen from behind reaches down the same as Patty's right arm in Sweaty's angled Rorschach creation. See post #151.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 18th January 2010 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 18th January 2010, 06:50 PM   #166
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Bumping this for Lucas who is signed in and viewing this thread now...

Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
I don't know what the deal is with Lucas but what I do know is that he has logged in today several times since the night before last when he wrote that and I made my request. Each time he's gone right to this thread and made no response. Not a "sorry, I was busy today," or an "I'll call him later," or anything. What I do know is that we have a young man coming here and telling us he is in regular communication with Bob Heironimus, yet showing no indication of doing anything to confirm that fact.

I would very much like to believe Lucas' claim, but I find myself in doubt based on his lack of response while remaining present.
What's the deal, Lucas?
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th January 2010, 06:53 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Óšinn View Post
1) The dearth of evidence that BF exists
2) The improbable timeline of the PGF
3) Patterson's history/inconsistencies/coincidences
4) Gimlin's inconsistencies
5) The confession of BH
6) Missing reels/footage
7) Film/trackway/footprint discrepancies
8) Patty's human proportions (BH fits)
want more?

I was actually speaking figuratively re the last nail. I don't necessarily agree with all of these nails, yet.

I understand your confusion since for you the coffin is in the ground. Your "hobby" lies in how & why the bigfooters keep supporting the PGF in spite of the coffin nails, correct?
I would like to ask you, Óšinn, which of those nails you don't agree with and also what percentage you would give for the likelihood of BH being Patty?
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th January 2010, 07:37 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
The Sisko needs some Ibuprofen...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=1371

These Rorshach's are pure idiocy. Sweaty, you have a Rorshach of Bob filmed from the front with a Rorschach of Patty that you before told us was Patty at 40° angle of view. Regardless what the exact angle was, it is not shot directly from behind. Where the image bisects at the shoulders is not along the spine, but rather to the left of it, creating an unreal thing with artificial wideness. Comparing that to a Rorschach of Bob is utter stupidity and completely meaningless.

Nevermind that the left elbow of the P7S seen from behind reaches down the same as Patty's right arm in Sweaty's angled Rorschach creation. See post #151.
He knows that.

Kit, I'm sure you know one of the definitions of insanity. Something about expecting a different result.....
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Last edited by GT/CS; 18th January 2010 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 18th January 2010, 09:44 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Let me give you a little rundown on the scenario....

...I am going to meet with Bob Heironimus and that is where the answers to get somewhere will be found, not on blobs on film. The answers are with the people involved, and whether you like it or not, Bob Heironimus had an involvement with Patterson and Gimlin and he's the only one ever to claim to be Patty.
I can only marvel at and respect the patience and energy you're exerting keeping up with Sweaty, debunking his assertions literally post by post. But you could have saved all that work had you let your above post be the last one on that particular matter.

Seriously, the potential knowledge and information you could glean from a direct 'encounter' with Bob H. is untold. The entire Bigfoot Industry™ could fall to its knees and come to a screeching halt if you could somehow come away from such a meeting with compelling, intelligent and believable evidence that he was in fact 'Patty'. I've said it before, if someone could righteously debunk (Greg Long wasn't righteous enough) the PGF, Bigfoot as we know it is 86.

Mr. Kitakaze Q. Smartley III could and would become truly famous, rich I'm not so sure, if he could bring back evidence from the wilds of downtown Yakima that the evidence we've been using as evidence really isn't evidence as much as it's evidence there's no evidence it can be used as evidence, and stuff.
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Old 18th January 2010, 10:03 PM   #170
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Where the image bisects at the shoulders is not along the spine, but rather to the left of it, creating an unreal thing with artificial wideness.

You're absolutely right, kitakaze...as far as the shoulders being wider...(proportionally speaking)....in my mirror-imaged Patty, than they are in the actual Patty.

Nonetheless...the subject of the comparison was/is the elbow, not the shoulder.


But.....here's the real BEAUTY in what you just wrote, kitty......(and I thank you for saying it)......is that by pointing out an error in the shoulder area, rather than pointing to the waist....you just unwittingly admitted to the FACT that there is NOT an error of any appreciable/significant amount lower down, at the waist, on the mirror-imaged Patty.

And that is where the elbows are located....down, close to the waist...(where the 'degree of accuracy' in the mirror-image is at it's highest.)


Thanks for the passive APPROVAL!

Patty's elbows are indeed spread apart significantly wider than Bob's, with their arms out at comparable angles.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

Last edited by SweatyYeti; 18th January 2010 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 18th January 2010, 10:10 PM   #171
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HH wrote:
Quote:
I can only marvel at and respect the patience and energy you're exerting keeping up with Sweaty, debunking his assertions literally post by post.

NEWS FLASH for Harry........kitakaze just gave his approval to the comparison.....at the area where the elbows are located.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th January 2010, 10:31 PM   #172
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The whole thing is messed, Sweaty. Head to toe. Here is the original image...



Now what we have below is P7S fitting Bob head to toe, elbows included, then viewed from the back in a pose matching Patty from the back. Most importantly P7S fits Bob while at the same time P7S' left elbow reaches just the same as Rorshach Patty's right arm...



Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post


If Sweaty's elbow reach foo foo had any merit, this could not be possible. The angle Rorshach creation is simply worthless.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th January 2010, 10:34 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
NEWS FLASH for Harry........kitakaze just gave his approval to the comparison.....at the area where the elbows are located.
Oops for you. P7S' left elbow matches Rorschach Patty's right.

911, Sweaty! 911!

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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 18th January 2010, 11:06 PM   #174
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
The whole thing is messed, Sweaty. Head to toe.

But you pointed to the shoulder........kitty.....NOT THE WAIST...

And for good reason....there is no appreciable error at the waist.


You correctly bypassed it. Thanks, Champ!
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 18th January 2010, 11:35 PM   #175
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Now what we have below is P7S fitting Bob head to toe





Wrong, kitty.

This graphic shows that the Pooper7 skeleton violates a Law of Physics...






The skeleton doesn't fore-shorten anywhere near the amount that it MUST fore-shorten, to properly represent a physical object.


In addition to that....Poopie's right shoulder-joint is placed incorrectly....it's placed right at the 'outer edge' of Patty's right shoulder....when it should be 'inboard' of Patty's apparent shoulder-joint, by at least 2-3 inches....due to Patty's extra upper-body/shoulder width.

As a result...it is INCORRECTLY representing the length of what Bob's humerus bone would have to have been, if he were Patty.


In addition to that....the scaling for Patty is too small. The graphic is showing Patty's 'walking height' to be about 5'9 -5'10".....when 2 different methods of measuring Patty's height show her 'walking height' to be in the range of about 6'1" to 6'5".


Your beloved skeleton......your only HOPE for Bob.....is Crap.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 19th January 2010, 12:44 AM   #176
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I have taken three Gravol and I am prepared for this merrygoround...

Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Wrong, kitty.

This graphic shows that the Pooper7 skeleton violates a Law of Physics...


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...idthCorr5A.jpg
Nice stills there. I can play broken record, too. Poser 7's physics engine is fine. So is DAZ Studio's. Two programs - full animation.

1) Mangler's Poser 7 overlay animation: 0:00 - 0:05 seconds.

2) Neltana's youtube DAZ Studio overlay animation: 1:30 - 1:35 seconds.

Sweaty addressing those...

Sweaty using mangler or neltana's instructions to get the software up and running...

Sweaty showing a physical object in the exact same positions as the overlays and showing significantly more foreshortening...

Sweaty providing the people to whom he claims his measurements are irrefutable the means by which he made his measurements...

Quote:
The skeleton doesn't fore-shorten anywhere near the amount that it MUST fore-shorten, to properly represent a physical object.
You're in the ring, on the mat in a haze, disoriented, and Slatty McPosty is frantic, reaching its slat out to you over the ropes...

Tag Slatty, man! Tag Slatty!

Quote:
In addition to that....Poopie's right shoulder-joint is placed incorrectly....it's placed right at the 'outer edge' of Patty's right shoulder....when it should be 'inboard' of Patty's apparent shoulder-joint, by at least 2-3 inches....due to Patty's extra upper-body/shoulder width.

As a result...it is INCORRECTLY representing the length of what Bob's humerus bone would have to have been, if he were Patty.
That's nice. P7S is not supposed to be Patty's actual skeleton, just a demo that you can fit a normally proportioned human skeleton can fit there, not just in one or two frames, but over a great many. The fit isn't perfect.

Show me a correction to the model takes the skeleton out of average human range and call me in the morning.

Quote:
In addition to that....the scaling for Patty is too small. The graphic is showing Patty's 'walking height' to be about 5'9 -5'10".....when 2 different methods of measuring Patty's height show her 'walking height' to be in the range of about 6'1" to 6'5".


S * L * O * U * C * H * I * N * G


Quote:
Your beloved skeleton......your only HOPE for Bob.....is Crap.
You forgot to put an "s" at the end of skeleton. Two skeletons, two 3D physics program available two, two full animations. Get back to me when you're ready two stop scribbling fail on stills, and actually deal with that reality.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th January 2010, 12:51 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
But you pointed to the shoulder........kitty.....NOT THE WAIST...

And for good reason....there is no appreciable error at the waist.


You correctly bypassed it. Thanks, Champ!
In typical intellectually dishonest fashion, you completely ignored the entire body of that post after that sentence.

Simple question, Sweaty - is the P7S seen from behind that has the left elbow matching your Rorshach Patty's right elbow inhumanly proportioned? Yes or no.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th January 2010, 01:26 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
I can only marvel at and respect the patience and energy you're exerting keeping up with Sweaty, debunking his assertions literally post by post. But you could have saved all that work had you let your above post be the last one on that particular matter.

Seriously, the potential knowledge and information you could glean from a direct 'encounter' with Bob H. is untold. The entire Bigfoot Industry™ could fall to its knees and come to a screeching halt if you could somehow come away from such a meeting with compelling, intelligent and believable evidence that he was in fact 'Patty'. I've said it before, if someone could righteously debunk (Greg Long wasn't righteous enough) the PGF, Bigfoot as we know it is 86.

Mr. Kitakaze Q. Smartley III could and would become truly famous, rich I'm not so sure, if he could bring back evidence from the wilds of downtown Yakima that the evidence we've been using as evidence really isn't evidence as much as it's evidence there's no evidence it can be used as evidence, and stuff.
Thanks for the kind words, Harry.

In Sweaty's case you have a desperate person living in a bizarro reality who comes here simply to taunt people like a child. No one will ever refute my measurements. You ask the guy to explain how he made them and he's flipping you the bird. Hmmm... who's on the bad guy team? How can Sweaty act like that and not know he's on the bad guy team?

As far as my meeting with Bob, it will happen. This Lucas kid obviously seems to have come here thinking he could drop a chalupa. I don't think he had any idea that he'd run into someone that was actively seeking out communication with Bob. It's been 42 years since the film was made and 6 years since Greg Long's book came out and Heironimus entered the collective consciousness of Bigfootery. The most important developements to have happened in the last six years all revolve around the revelations of the connections between Patterson, Gimlin, and Heironimus. Patterson is gone but Gimlin and Heironimus remain and they live nine fricking houses apart.

What we need is to have the right people in the right place doing the right kind of digging. What I think is best for me to do at this point is forget about what obviously seems to have been lies and snail mail Heironimus my plan and contact. We need to shake this $#!% up and that's the way we're going to do it. Let's give Bigfootery something to really talk about.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th January 2010, 12:45 PM   #179
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Óšinn View Post
1) The dearth of evidence that BF exists
2) The improbable timeline of the PGF
3) Patterson's history/inconsistencies/coincidences
4) Gimlin's inconsistencies
5) The confession of BH
6) Missing reels/footage
7) Film/trackway/footprint discrepancies
8) Patty's human proportions (BH fits)
want more?

I was actually speaking figuratively re the last nail. I don't necessarily agree with all of these nails, yet.

I understand your confusion since for you the coffin is in the ground. Your "hobby" lies in how & why the bigfooters keep supporting the PGF in spite of the coffin nails, correct?

I thought you might say "the PGF coffin", but you went for the whole enchilada. If Bigfoot doesn't exist then Patty cannot be real. But a phony Patty doesn't mean that Bigfoot doesn't exist. You knew that and probably have seen the many Bigfooters who say that it wouldn't matter much to them if the film were shown to be a fake. These would include folks like WGBH who insist that they have seen an actual Bigfoot and there is no way that they didn't see it. They have ruled out misidentification or perceptual anomoly.

But there is a personal belief/epistemology that is tied to Bigfooters. Bigfoot isn't ruled out and universally accepted as fiction until the very last Bigfooter converts to disbelief. Bigfootery survives because we can't prove that Bigfoot does not exist. There is no coffin nail for that bit. I'm going further now to say that your "last coffin nail" really won't be that for Bigfoot and not even for the PGF. No matter how good the "definitively scientifically measured film" there would be plenty of Bigfooters who simply do not acknowledge it as a valid debunking. Of course there would also be "new Bigfooters" popping up as they do now. "Hey guys. I just saw a Bigfoot. I'm not kidding or lying. These things really are real. I now know that the skeptics are wrong."


Quote:
I understand your confusion since for you the coffin is in the ground. Your "hobby" lies in how & why the bigfooters keep supporting the PGF in spite of the coffin nails, correct?

Yes and no. I've come to the understanding that there is no coffin to be buried or nailed shut. The believers will not allow a coffin to be defined and isolated so that it even could be shut and buried. A nailed and buried coffin for Bigfoot would be when everyone agrees that it doesn't exist and nobody comes forward next week to say that it does.
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Old 19th January 2010, 02:20 PM   #180
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William Parcher wrote:
Quote:
A nailed and buried coffin for Bigfoot would be when everyone agrees that it doesn't exist and nobody comes forward next week to say that it does.

It'll never happen....regarding both of those scenarios.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 19th January 2010, 02:31 PM   #181
kitakaze
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
It'll never happen....regarding both of those scenarios.
Not with so many creduloids to keep hoaxers happy...

Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Originally Posted by The Professor View Post
I saw a small Bigfoot on Mt. St. Helens in 1973. They are real!
Cool! Congrats on your sighting, Professor....you're a very lucky guy!

Have you talked about it on this board, before?
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th January 2010, 03:19 PM   #182
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So, this comes down to belief....

- We do not believe that it is a guy in a suit.

- We do believe Bob H. was in the suit if he tells us so.

AFAIK we are now firmly grounded in the confabulation realm.
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Old 19th January 2010, 04:44 PM   #183
kitakaze
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Originally Posted by realpaladin View Post
So, this comes down to belief....

- We do not believe that it is a guy in a suit.

- We do believe Bob H. was in the suit if he tells us so.

AFAIK we are now firmly grounded in the confabulation realm.
Regarding the bolded there, it's not quite that simple. First is the fact that not all Bigfoot skeptics believe BH's story. LTC8K6 is at least one regular here who voices that opinion. Next is that those such as myself who are inclined to give merit to BH's story do not do so simply because he tells us so. There are a great many circumstances surrounding the confession that give the story credibility.

I can list many of those things, but for now, suffice it to say that he was proven to be involved with Patterson's Bigfoot efforts at the time, has to this day a friendship with Gimlin, appears on Patterson's film, and had his horse at Bluff Creek when the creature was allegedly filmed. This in no way constitutes proof, but when these are among the many circumstances supporting the only person in the world to have ever claimed to be Patty, it certainly gives us reason for serious consideration.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th January 2010, 10:28 PM   #184
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This post is an addendum to post #176 which was a rebuttal invalidating the highly flawed arguments concerning foreshortening and the P7S. Not only will Sweaty be completely unable to address the arguments in that post, there are even more reasons why his attempt to invalidate the overlay animations of mangler and neltana is completely ineffectual...

1) The logic of trying to invalidate two separate 3D program animations based on the comparison of two still images from one program -

Sweaty takes a P7S overlay on Bob viewed from head on then a P7S overlay on Patty from behind at a slight angle and declares the degree of foreshortening to be physically impossible.

a) No physical object serving as an appropriate analog is shown in the same positions while showing a much greater degree of foreshortening. In a simple experiment I found a suitable analog for the basic shape of a human body - my cordless phone. I viewed the phone from head on while against something in the background to serve as measurement. I then turned it to the same angle as Patty is seen in the second overlay image. I noticed hardly any decrease in width of the object from my perspective. Anyone can confirm this for themselves and it requires no goober math or pie charts. I'm confident that physical experimentation will confirm my observation. Sweaty can say physics is being violated all he like, but he has never ever shown it in any physical way.

b) The claim that the P7S' physics engine is malfunctioning in some completely basic way so as to render the software useless is absurd. Foreshortening on the skeleton is occuring. Look at the following images...



Let's label them from left to right 3, 4, 2, 1. The reason for that is that 1 - 4 in sequence show progressively increasing angling away from the camera, as well as progressively increasing foreshortening. Looking at 1 vs 4 (Bob car vs Bob walk), we can see siginificant foreshortening. Looking at 1 vs 2 (Bob car vs Patty walk), we do not see significant foreshortening. You will find that when you replicate this with your own appropriate analog (cordless phone or whatever), that the exact same thing happens. As the angle increases away from being viewed straight on, the degree of foreshortening increases greatly. Little turn, little change. Big turn, big change. It is important to remember that P7S is a rendering of a 3D object. The human body is not a 2D cardboard cut out and will not foreshorten like one. P7S reflects this.

2) Bad logic will bite you in the ass...

So Sweaty wants to try and invalidate the animations made by mangler with Poser 7 and neltana with DAZ Studio. To do this, Sweaty is using two of mangler's stills. Just the beginning of the problem is that it does nothing to address DAZ Studio or the full animations from each program. The real kicker comes in to the old addage turnabout is fairplay. So all it takes is to say two stills violate the laws of physics with no physical verification to proclaim the DAZ and Poser animations as worthless?

Okey-dokey. I'm going to take two images of Patty where her head is violating the laws of physics and proclaim the whole PGF is unreliable and therefore worthless for making measurements upon. What's that? No average human could possibly fit inside Patty? Oh, I'm sorry. No real head could alter its shape so drastically...





I'm using Sweaty against Sweaty. The collective points of #176 and this put Sweaty's malfunctioning physics software guano out for a dirtnap. Only addressing them all will give that lunacy any hope of return.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 19th January 2010, 11:19 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
...First is the fact that not all Bigfoot skeptics believe BH's story. LTC8K6 is at least one regular here who voices that opinion...
I too have not totally 'bought' his story - but at this juncture I'm more than willing to see what some further investigation can dig up. Greg Long's original failure at deciphering the 'story' properly doesn't trump it's ultimate cosmic truth. Kitakaze is quite right in that there are specific circumstances that absolutely lend 'credibility' to BH's story. For that matter, maybe BH wasn't the actual guy in the suit, but he knows who it was. Maybe he claimed to be the suit guy because he could i.e. that guy also died etc. I AM convinced BH KNOWS things about the PGF that we all still don't. And IMO Kitakaze is the perfect candidate to further interview BH so as to ascertain such knowledge - and the sooner the better.
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Old 20th January 2010, 05:00 AM   #186
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I also think skeptics should not bother to try to explain or figure out who might have worn a sasquatch suit for Roger when engaging with a believer.

I think I can rest my case with the "Sweaty Files".

Although I have not managed to completely avoid this myself...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 20th January 2010, 10:19 PM   #187
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Just for Sweaty I have some lovely eye candy to help soothe the total failure of not being able to invalidate the DAZ Sudio and Poser 7 overlay animations showing that an average human skeleton can fit both Patty and Bob Heironimus...

Though a little risque, the following lovely lady is a creation of DAZ Studio being shown in full 360° yumminess...

Her name is Girl 4 and she's pretty.

NSFW

The greatest thing is that when you spin her around, she doesn't violate the laws of physics in any way! Isn't that nutty?? In the 21st century we can use computers to create and animate 3D objects with complete realism?

Next we have a neat little animation with the DAZ Studio skeleton, the same skeleton neltana used in his youtube video animation, and he's moseying around all neato like...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Please note how the humerus bones don't go all crazy and change lengths nor does the figure foreshorten all wacky.

Now for a real treat, it's the guy Sweaty loves to hate, P7S! Here we have a couple of videos of P7S jumping around and pretending to be a pirate...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Pirate Skeleton

Once again, no gumby humerus bones or bizarro foreshortening. Isn't technology grand? We can create and animate a skeleton that will jump and play pirate and even fit into some shots of a Bigfoot and Bob Heironimus. Crazy!

Here is a message from DAZ Studio and Poser 7...

Originally Posted by DAZ Stduio
DAZ Studio is a free, feature rich 3D figure design and 3D animation tool that enables anyone to create stunning digital imagery. This is the perfect tool to design unique digital art and animation using virtual people, animals, props, vehicles, accessories, environments and more. Simply select your subject and/or setting, arrange accessories, setup lighting, and begin creating beautiful artwork.
http://www.daz3d.com/

Originally Posted by Poser 7
Harness the Power of 3D Figures with Poser 7.
Design, pose and animate figures in 3D. Poser provides high-resolution 3D figure models, an extensive library of 3D content, and a powerful 3D toolset that makes it easy to create your own 3D characters. Render stunning Images with natural lighting and artistic effects for print or web, or create realistic animations for Flash projects and movies!
http://http://my.smithmicro.com/dr/poser7_pop.html

Thanks, DAZ and Poser for being able to design a physics engine that can handle the awesome physics of turning around!
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 20th January 2010 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 21st January 2010, 01:36 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by lucaschorak
Hi everybody I am new to this.I came here for one thing I talked to Bob Heironimus on the phone. I made up some BS and was looking to screw with some people with my troll poo. I was not at all prepared to encounter someone who was seeking out BH. I will now slink away and never post again. Any questions?
Fixed it. Too bad Lucas was a liar and a troll.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 21st January 2010, 09:29 AM   #189
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OK, I can't help but ask -Evidence?
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Old 21st January 2010, 04:13 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
OK, I can't help but ask -Evidence?
Fair question.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but as far as I concerned, the fact that Lucas was repeatedly signing in here, watching this thread, making no responses at all to any attempt of mine to verify his claims, nor responding to any PM's asking what was up, then dissappearing altogether, is sufficient evidence for me. I think that's more than enough clear indication that he came here simply to string people along with lies about talking to BH and Patricia Patterson talking about a planned deathbed confession.

If any wants I signed confession from Lucas, go ahead and PM him. I don't think he'll be getting back to you.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 21st January 2010, 05:32 PM   #191
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Seems at least like "compelling evidence" for me, LOL!

Better than many a pro-bigfoot piece of evidence, BTW...
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Old 22nd January 2010, 03:21 AM   #192
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So Lucas has popped up and dropped me a PM. Earlier he offered to send me the first three digits of BH's phone number. I asked him to do that and provide me with the first name he gave Bob. I specifically asked him by PM not to give me the area code and explained that the first three digits would be those after the area code like so...

(123) 321-1234 = first three digits - 321

I also asked him if he would call Bob with the email I sent his wife and ask if I could have Bob's email.

Lucas sent me a brief PM in which he gave me the number 509 as the first three digits of Bob's number and that he would have to wait till Friday or Saturday to ask for the area code. The first problem is that 509 is the area code for Yakima. The second is that if he is in fact in contact with BH, there is no reason to wait and ask the area code. Any person can take 60 seconds with google to find that the area code for Yakima is 509.

More problematic is that Lucas made no mention of my doubts, nor provided me with his first name that he gave to BH that I have asked for numerous times. When someone calls BS on you, little two sentence meaningless blurbs with no information of relevance does nothing whatsoever to address the situation.

Yes, I think I know this routine...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 22nd January 2010 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 11:07 AM   #193
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Mangler's mangled "matching" skeletons show Patty's ''walking height' as approx. 5'10".....while reality shows something very different......






More later......
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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Old 22nd January 2010, 11:11 AM   #194
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:


S * L * O * U * C * H * I * N * G

S * I # G % N $ I ~ F @ I * C - A @ N + T ^ L * Y + U * N ^ D : E # R @ S * C `A ~ L + E - D = CRAP.
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

Last edited by SweatyYeti; 22nd January 2010 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 03:33 PM   #195
kitakaze
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Mangler's mangled "matching" skeletons show Patty's ''walking height' as approx. 5'10".....while reality shows something very different......

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...dWalkComp1.jpg

More later......
Oops for you...





P7S does not violate physics in any way. The Poser 7 and DAZ Studio animations have you beat. Try addressing posts #176, #184, #187. You can't and you won't.

BTW, your reality has some serious problems...

1) Your backgrounds don't match. Mine do.

2) Dark spots on ground in blurry shots do not imperically equal same piece of wood. Even so...

3) Here's a kicker - area became flooded, remember?

Have fun with that.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

Last edited by kitakaze; 22nd January 2010 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 03:44 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
S * I # G % N $ I ~ F @ I * C - A @ N + T ^ L * Y + U * N ^ D : E # R @ S * C `A ~ L + E - D = CRAP.
Sweaty can't refute Poser 7 and DAZ...

*BZZT* FAIL. Next.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 22nd January 2010, 05:17 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post

BTW, your reality has some serious problems...


2) Dark spots on ground in blurry shots do not imperically equal same piece of wood. Even so...

3) Here's a kicker - area became flooded, remember?


Wrong again, kitakaze......











Quote:
1) Your backgrounds don't match.

The images of Jim and Patty that I used were cropped from larger images, which were scaled so that the objects in the scene matched in size.

Additionally, this 'foot-ruler' measurement supports the very-close appearance of Jim's and Patty's heights, in the comparison above...







I wish you all the best, kitakaze, in trying to present ONE piece of evidence which shows that Patty's 'walking height' was actually 5'9-5'10".

Mangler's free-choice of scaling Patty to fit his Poser7 skeleton means absolutely nothing, regarding her true height.


You can't handle the truth, can you?
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

Last edited by SweatyYeti; 22nd January 2010 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 22nd January 2010, 05:34 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post


Because Rene Dahinden said so...

Quote:
The images of Jim and Patty that I used were cropped from larger images, which were scaled so that the objects in the scene matched in size.
How nice, you tried to match some blurs. You forgot the kicker...

The area was flooded.

Wood usually floats, right, genius?

Quote:
Additionally, this 'foot-ruler' measurement supports the very-close appearance of Jim's and Patty's heights, in the comparison above...
How nice, you're depending wholly on the concept that Patterson didn't fake tracks.

Quote:
I wish you all the best, kitakaze, in trying to present ONE piece of evidence which shows that Patty's 'walking height' was actually 5'9-5'10".
Again? OK...



Quote:
Mangler's free-choice of scaling Patty to fit his Poser7 skeleton means absolutely nothing, regarding her true height.
And you utterly failed at refuting the DAZ and Poser 7 animations. #176, #184, and #187 can not be refuted! HAHAHA!

Quote:
You can't handle the truth, can you?
Coming from the woo who thinks Bigfoot lives all over North America, aliens fly above the Earth, and there were civilizations on Mars connected to Earth.

BTW, Sweaty, you didn't think the IMAX documentary really showed a Bigfoot did you? You weren't going all Memorial Day Footage on that, were you? LOL
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 22nd January 2010, 05:53 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Simple question, Sweaty - is the P7S seen from behind that has the left elbow matching your Rorshach Patty's right elbow inhumanly proportioned? Yes or no.
Bumped for Sweaty - another question regarding Bigfoot evidence he will refuse to answer. Getting to be a bit of a habit with him, lately.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 22nd January 2010, 06:11 PM   #200
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kitakaze wrote:
Quote:
Because Rene Dahinden said so.

The area was flooded.

Wood usually floats, right, genius?


Poor kitakaze.....just can't accept the truth.....reality.


Here is another comparison, with the images properly scaled...(in addition to their heights being very close...notice how much wider Patty is than Jim)...











And here...folks....is kitakaze's 'evidence' that Patty's walking height was only 5'9-5'10"...







Well, I guess 3 clear graphics, which include a foot-ruler measurement.....can't "beat out" 1 hazy comparison...(lacking a wider-view context with which to judge it's accuracy)...which kitakaze can only SAY shows Patty's height to be about 5'10".


kitakaze....you can't deal with the truth, can you?
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The wisdom of Diogenes....
"So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."
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