IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 7th January 2010, 06:32 AM   #1
Praktik
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,244
"Nothing happens by accident" -FDR

I was treated to this quote in a debate about whether the christmas underwear bomber was a false flag or not:

"Nothing happens in politics by accident, if it happens, it was planned that way" - Franklin D. Roosevelt

Now, I coulda sworn we had a thread for these kinds of quotes analyzing their veracity, but a whole buunch of searching and going back page by page in this forum has been fruitless.

It just seems to me to be kind of a dumb quote. Would FDR really say such a thing??

Intergoogling the formulation above returned all conspiracy sites - is this a real quote? And if so, does anyone have the wider context in which it appeared?
Praktik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 07:29 AM   #2
Rolfe
Adult human female
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 48,301
Might just have been a general religious statement? Not even the fall of a sparrow, and all that?

Rolfe

ETA: I think I didn't notice the "in politics" part of the quote. Scratch that.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

Last edited by Rolfe; 7th January 2010 at 08:13 AM.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 07:30 AM   #3
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,380
Does the attempted bombing of a plane happen in politics? I think it happened in real life over Detroit.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 07:39 AM   #4
JohnG
Pedantic Bore
 
JohnG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Abandon All Hope
Posts: 6,808
I searched through a site that lists 82 of FDR's most famous quotes. That quote is not among them. Assuming he actually said it he might have meant literally politics in the sense of the work done by actual politicians? Even if someone is (at least partly) politically motivated to carry out a terrorist attack does the attack itself fall into the heading of "politics"?
__________________
Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. - Harlan Ellison
JohnG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 07:53 AM   #5
Thunder
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,918
"Nothing happens in politics by accident, if it happens, it was planned that way" - Franklin D. Roosevelt

I'd like to see proof of this quote.
Thunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 08:16 AM   #6
Rolfe
Adult human female
 
Rolfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 48,301
Actually, I'm pretty sure the attempted bombing of the plane over Detroit didn't happen by accident. You don't accidentally sew quantities of explosives into your underwear and accidentally try to set them off while you're in an aeroplane.

Of course it was planned that way. Who by, is the real question. I'd have said al Qaida, at a wild guess, personally.

Rolfe.
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.
Rolfe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 08:25 AM   #7
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Of course it was planned that way. Who by, is the real question. I'd have said al Qaida, at a wild guess, personally.

Rolfe.



That's just it. Even if the quote is completely legitimate, it still doesn't support the "Inside Job" theory of terrorism. Do these guys imagine that no one other than the current Powers That Be ever do any planning?
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 08:34 AM   #8
Praktik
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,244
hmmm maybe I'll try google scholar or google books... thanks for the thoughts everyone I definitely agree with what's been said here. I can tangle with the quote logically but I'm still curious as to the source for the quote and where FDR may have said it - and the context around it.

I'm also prepared to find its an invention.
Praktik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 08:53 AM   #9
Praktik
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,244
I submitted it to snopes... we'll see what resources they can bring to it..
Praktik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 09:01 AM   #10
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by Praktik View Post
"Nothing happens in politics by accident, if it happens, it was planned that way" - Franklin D. Roosevelt
Why did you leave that out in the thread title? Seems like an important detail.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 09:02 AM   #11
Praktik
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,244
nothing happens by accident pardalis, even my choice of thread title
Praktik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 11:51 AM   #12
LightinDarkness
Master Poster
 
LightinDarkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,583
I really don't get why CTs always turn to "argument by quotes." Even if we ignore that the vast, vast majority of their quotes are (1) hoaxes or (2) severely taken out of context as to obscure their original meaning, what does it matter to begin with?

The types of conspiracies the whackjobs use argument by quotes to defend are so large and so vast (yet concurrently so well hidden that only they know about them), why is it anyone would admit to them? And how do you know the quote is being serious and not just some famous person reflecting the cynicism of their times?

Like in the OP's quote - I could see FDR saying this in some cabinet meeting about POLITICS. But maybe he was being cynical. Either way, he said this happened in politics...not terrorism plots.
LightinDarkness is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 12:01 PM   #13
JohnG
Pedantic Bore
 
JohnG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Abandon All Hope
Posts: 6,808
Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
Like in the OP's quote - I could see FDR saying this in some cabinet meeting about POLITICS. But maybe he was being cynical. Either way, he said this happened in politics...not terrorism plots.

Along those lines here is an actual quote (what a concept!) from FDR regarding politics and cynicism (emphasis mine):

"I am neither bitter nor cynical but I do wish there was less immaturity in political thinking."
__________________
Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. - Harlan Ellison
JohnG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 12:26 PM   #14
Praktik
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,244
oh man!

that is a GREAT rejoinder...

im gonna save that to do a tit-for-tat next time the alleged FDR quote in the op resurfaces
Praktik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 02:18 PM   #15
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
 
SpitfireIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,323
From a Wikiquote article:

Quote:
Misattributed

* In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens you can bet it was planned that way.
o There are no records of Roosevelt having made such a statement, and this is most likely a misquotation of the widely reported comment he made in a speech at the Citadel (23 October 1935):
Yes. we are on the way back — not by mere chance, not by a turn of the cycle. We are coming back more soundly than ever before because we planned it that way, and don't let anybody tell you differently.
__________________
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
--Carl Schurz
SpitfireIX is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 02:31 PM   #16
Lanzy
Muse
 
Lanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 976
Either untrue, or **** happens is untrue.
Lanzy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 02:42 PM   #17
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 55,447
Looks if the FDR quote is as real as the Benjamin Franklin quote about the Jews.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 03:22 PM   #18
Praktik
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,244
Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
From a Wikiquote article:
Ok frickin great

I am going to be using wikiquote more often!

I bet snopes will go there first if they bother to check my submission..
Praktik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 06:03 PM   #19
Rogue1stclass
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by Praktik View Post
Ok frickin great

I am going to be using wikiquote more often!

I bet snopes will go there first if they bother to check my submission..
He might just post it on his forum
Rogue1stclass is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2010, 08:33 PM   #20
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
I really don't get why CTs always turn to "argument by quotes." Even if we ignore that the vast, vast majority of their quotes are (1) hoaxes or (2) severely taken out of context as to obscure their original meaning, what does it matter to begin with?

The types of conspiracies the whackjobs use argument by quotes to defend are so large and so vast (yet concurrently so well hidden that only they know about them), why is it anyone would admit to them? And how do you know the quote is being serious and not just some famous person reflecting the cynicism of their times?

Like in the OP's quote - I could see FDR saying this in some cabinet meeting about POLITICS. But maybe he was being cynical. Either way, he said this happened in politics...not terrorism plots.
I hadn't thought of that before. The very quotes that they mine are from those they consider "Teh Evil".
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:52 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.