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Tags historical revisionism , holocaust denial

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Old 31st January 2010, 07:14 PM   #1
Mondial
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Are Tattoos Proof of a Nazi Genocide?

When dealing with the alleged "holocaust" (see www.holocaustdenialvideos.com and www.codoh.com ) most people would be familiar with stories of tattoos used for identification purposes. But are concentration camp inmates with tattoos proof of mass murder or are they just another holocaust sob story? www.cwporter.com/tattoo1.htm
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Old 31st January 2010, 07:22 PM   #2
GreenLines
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Cool story, bro.

Tattoos are cool.
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Old 31st January 2010, 07:39 PM   #3
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Are Tattoos Proof of a Nazi Genocide?

No. The Nazi program of mass murder is supported by other evidence, and lots of it. What the tattoos prove is that someone was a victim of that program.

I hope that clears up your confusion.
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Old 31st January 2010, 08:29 PM   #4
TSR
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No. The Nazi program of mass murder is supported by other evidence, and lots of it. What the tattoos prove is that someone was a victim of that program.
.
To be technical, a survivor with a tattoo is "merely" a victim of the concentration camps. Those selected on arrival never had the chance to be tattoo'd
.
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Old 31st January 2010, 09:19 PM   #5
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tatoos are proof of the Holocaust?

is this another Denier strawman?

sure looks like one.
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Old 31st January 2010, 09:43 PM   #6
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I've met a lady with one of these tattoos. My first seeing it sent a frigid shiver down my spine. She didn't seem like a hoaxter to me. Given the fact that there is ample and ongoing evidence that intolerant populations can and will perpetuate such attrocities, I cannot seriously consider any arguments that the Holocaust was a fraud.
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:11 AM   #7
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"Holocaust sob story"?
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
The operation was slightly painful and extraordinarily rapid: they placed us all in a row[...] we filed past a skilful official armed with a sort of pointed tool with a very short needle.
[...]
To the old hands of the camp, the numbers told everything [...] Everyone will treat with respect the numbers from 30,00 to 80,000: there are only a few hundred left and they represented the few survivals from the Polish ghettos. It is well to watch out in commercial dealings with a 116,000 or 117,000: they now number only about forty, but they represent the Greeks of Salonica, so take care they do not pull the wool over your eyes. As for the high numbers they carry an essential comic air about them, like the words 'freshman' or 'conscript' in ordinary life [...] he can be convinced that leather shoes are distributed at the infirmary, and can be persuaded to run there and leave his bowl of soup 'in your custody'
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:54 AM   #9
Maja
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
But are concentration camp inmates with tattoos proof of mass murder or are they just another holocaust sob story? www.cwporter.com/tattoo1.htm
Neither. Tattoos were used only in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, and only for the prisoners selected for work, not for those selected for the gas chambers.
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Old 1st February 2010, 07:18 AM   #10
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Of course the fact that Jews were not suposed have body markings like tattoos would suggest that few of them got tattoos for a "sob story'
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Old 1st February 2010, 07:48 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
Of course the fact that Jews were not suposed have body markings like tattoos would suggest that few of them got tattoos for a "sob story'
The link so thoughtfully provided by mondial shows some pictures of young Israelis with tattoos, so that's that argument...erm...ignored. I generally assume that holocaust revisionists are rabid anti-semites, so you're asking him to imagine that people 'capable' of such a 'hoax' wouldn't be above getting a forbidden tattoo to bolster it. The fact that many of those labelled 'jew' for extermination would have been non-orthodox or to some degree 'not-jewish' in their jewishness, would alas only give him another out - they'd have no qualms about concocting an elaborate tattoo hoax. They'd have considerably less motivation, of course...
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Old 1st February 2010, 08:53 AM   #12
kedo1981
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So the proof that 70 years ago traditional European Jews cooked up a tattoo scheme to make the Germans look bad, is that twenty year old Israelis have unicorns tats on their tits.
Please!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 1st February 2010, 09:10 AM   #13
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I'm pretty sure all the stories of what happened during the Holocaust are "sob stories", since they are pretty depressing. Well, some of them are horrifying, and others are gruesome. But they all get the ol' tear ducts flowing as they make me realize how awful people can be to one another.

Actually, the existence of Holocaust denial is a "sob story" too, under that criteria.
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Old 1st February 2010, 09:30 AM   #14
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It's impressive in just how many different ways the OP gets his 'argument' wrong, and how quick people are to point them all out.


(impressive in entirely different ways, of course)
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Old 1st February 2010, 10:31 AM   #15
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"Just another" Holocaust sob story? Can one assume that the poster of the OP doesn't believe that the Holocaust happened, but is prepared to reconsider that belief if someone can come up with an irrefutable line of evidence based only on the tatoos, currently the only remaining piece of evidence he can't bring himself to discard?

I have another theory as to the nature and beliefs of the poster, but I'd prefer not to risk an infraction.

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Old 1st February 2010, 11:00 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger View Post
"Holocaust sob story"?
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Holocaust Denial.
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Old 1st February 2010, 12:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
But are concentration camp inmates with tattoos proof of mass murder or are they just another holocaust sob story?
Yes!

SS members were tattooed with their blood group as part of the elite.

Obviously, the Joos were actually revered by Germany and Nazis.
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Old 1st February 2010, 02:44 PM   #18
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Prestige wrote:
Quote:
What the tattoos prove is that someone was a victim of that program.
Wouldn't a victim of an extermination program be dead? And not someone alive with a tattoo?
-------------------------------
TSR wrote
Quote:
To be technical, a survivor with a tattoo is "merely" a victim of the concentration camps.
Wouldn't a victim be someone killed in a camp as part of the holocaust?
-------------------------------
Slimething wrote
Quote:
I've met a lady with one of these tattoos. My first seeing it sent a frigid shiver down my spine. She didn't seem like a hoaxter to me.
No but given the fact she's alive, wouldn't that mean that her tattoo is in fact not proof of a plan to murder Jews?

Last edited by Budly; 1st February 2010 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 1st February 2010, 03:31 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Budly View Post
TSR wrote
Quote:
To be technical, a survivor with a tattoo is "merely" a victim of the concentration camps.
Wouldn't a victim be someone killed in a camp as part of the holocaust?
According to your logic, someone who was locked up in a concentration camp and suffered all corresponding abuse, was not a victim?
Originally Posted by Budly View Post
Slimething wrote
Quote:
I've met a lady with one of these tattoos. My first seeing it sent a frigid shiver down my spine. She didn't seem like a hoaxter to me.
No but given the fact she's alive, wouldn't that mean that her tattoo is in fact not proof of a plan to murder Jews?
It means the Nazis hadn't yet worked her to death. You do know that the Jews who arrived at Auschwitz and were healthy enough, went to the labor camp to be worked to death there?

BTW, how is your research into 1940 boys' fashion going? You went quite silent in your own thread about the photo from the Stroop report.
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Old 1st February 2010, 03:33 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Budly View Post
Prestige wrote:
Wouldn't a victim of an extermination program be dead? And not someone alive with a tattoo?
-------------------------------
TSR wrote
Wouldn't a victim be someone killed in a camp as part of the holocaust?
-------------------------------
Slimething wrote
No but given the fact she's alive, wouldn't that mean that her tattoo is in fact not proof of a plan to murder Jews?
No, no, and no.

A "victim" of a crime need not be dead; I was the victim of a burglary about fifteen years ago and of an assault about twelve, and I assure you that I'm very much alive.
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Old 1st February 2010, 03:39 PM   #21
geni
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Yes!

SS members were tattooed with their blood group as part of the elite.
Except the very small number (less than thirty) of british memebers.
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Old 1st February 2010, 04:08 PM   #22
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DDT wrote:
Quote:
According to your logic, someone who was locked up in a concentration camp and suffered all corresponding abuse, was not a victim?
They are victims, yes, but not proof of Nazi genocide. That they are alive and have a tattoo from Auschwitz, points to there not being an extermination plan. In a way, they're living proof of that.

We hear that the ones unfit for work were immediately gassed. So how then would one explain the footage of all the little kids pulling up their sleeves to display a tattoo? And if Anne Frank made the cut-off at 15 years old, to not be gassed at Auschwitz, then who did they kill? People over 65? And the rest were largely worked to death? What kind of quality work are you going to get from people being worked to death and starving to death? You want people in that state working on munitions?

The holocaust story just doesn't make sense.

Last edited by Budly; 1st February 2010 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 1st February 2010, 04:17 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Budly View Post
DDT wrote:

They are victims, yes, but not proof of Nazi genocide. That they are alive and have a tattoo from Auschwitz, points to there not being an extermination plan. In a way, they're living proof of that.
Well know, it just shows an extermination plan that was not completed.
And no, tatoos aren't proof of a Nazi genocide, there is plenty of other evidence for that. The tattoos are one piece of evidence of the internment of massive groups of people.

I guess you and the OP must disagree, since he seems to think that addressing tattoo's somehow "debunks" the extermination program. You guys should get together and solidify your talking points.
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Old 1st February 2010, 04:34 PM   #24
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Well, the point is that most people think tattoos are proof of Nazi genocide. The general public largely believes that. And "survivors" seem to believe that. Take this video:
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/donahue_a.html
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/donahue_b.html

At one point a woman holds up her arm to show a tattoo. As proof of Nazi genocide.

Last edited by Budly; 1st February 2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 1st February 2010, 04:36 PM   #25
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Just read Denying The Holocaust by Deborah Lipstadt. It shows the genesis and development of the denial movement, and gives some good perspective on the whole issue. Great book.

After reading that, you've got

A) it happened and people had reasons to try to say it didn't.
B) it didn't happen and people had reasons to try to say it did.

In the light of this book, A) makes way more sense.
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Old 1st February 2010, 04:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
In the light of this book, A) makes way more sense.
Yes, but in light of that book, of course A would make way more sense. But in light of this website B would make more sense.
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Old 1st February 2010, 04:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Budly View Post
They are victims, yes, but not proof of Nazi genocide. That they are alive and have a tattoo from Auschwitz, points to there not being an extermination plan. In a way, they're living proof of that.
And in your logic, then poof, the holocaust didn't happen. Forgetting the wealth of evidence there is.

Originally Posted by Budly View Post
We hear that the ones unfit for work were immediately gassed. So how then would one explain the footage of all the little kids pulling up their sleeves to display a tattoo? And if Anne Frank made the cut-off at 15 years old, to not be gassed at Auschwitz, then who did they kill? People over 65? And the rest were largely worked to death? What kind of quality work are you going to get from people being worked to death and starving to death? You want people in that state working on munitions?
Ah, the old arguments from ignorance. It's exactly like your arguments about 1940s dressing fashion. Age wasn't the only criterion. And 15-year olds are perfectly fine laborers. 19th C. child labor laws typically first outlawed children under 12 to work in factories.

Originally Posted by Budly View Post
The holocaust story just doesn't make sense.
Only when you keep yourself deliberately ignorant.

Originally Posted by Budly View Post
Well, the point is that most people think tattoos are proof of Nazi genocide. The general public largely believes that. And "survivors" seem to believe that. Take this video:
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/donahue_a.html
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/donahue_b.html

At one point a woman holds up her arm to show a tattoo. As proof of Nazi genocide.
I'm definitely not going to watch your videos. But I guess the clincher, in your opinion, is that she wasn't properly dressed?
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Old 1st February 2010, 04:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Budly View Post
Well, the point is that most people think tattoos are proof of Nazi genocide. The general public largely believes that. And "survivors" seem to believe that. Take this video:
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/donahue_a.html
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/donahue_b.html

At one point a woman holds up her arm to show a tattoo. As proof of Nazi genocide.
What's your point? That has nothing to do with the wealth of evidence for the holocaust.
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Old 1st February 2010, 05:26 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
Of course the fact that Jews were not suposed have body markings like tattoos would suggest that few of them got tattoos for a "sob story'
come on NOW you know you can't put ANYTHING past them jooos. They'll do anything including violating major rules of their religion JUST to bad mouth those poor oppressed Aryans.
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Old 1st February 2010, 05:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
The link so thoughtfully provided by mondial shows some pictures of young Israelis with tattoos, so that's that argument...erm...ignored. I generally assume that holocaust revisionists are rabid anti-semites, so you're asking him to imagine that people 'capable' of such a 'hoax' wouldn't be above getting a forbidden tattoo to bolster it. The fact that many of those labelled 'jew' for extermination would have been non-orthodox or to some degree 'not-jewish' in their jewishness, would alas only give him another out - they'd have no qualms about concocting an elaborate tattoo hoax. They'd have considerably less motivation, of course...
Missed this - Wonder where they got the number sequence though to match up with all those ss records and such.

they must have had a really big tattoo convention. Wonder how ther rest of the world missed it.
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:02 PM   #31
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Budly, we know what the program consisted of. We know it consisted of concentration camps. We know it consisted of mass murder. We know it consisted of forced labor. We know it consisted of tattoos for at least some victims of the program. We have ample evidence for all of this.

The tattoo doesn't prove the program existed. It doesn't need to. It simply proves the person wearing the tattoo was a victim of the program.
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:18 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
When dealing with the alleged "holocaust" (see www.holocaustdenialvideos.com and www.codoh.com ) most people would be familiar with stories of tattoos used for identification purposes. But are concentration camp inmates with tattoos proof of mass murder or are they just another holocaust sob story? www.cwporter.com/tattoo1.htm
No, just a form of identification.

You don't have to say, "Papers, please"
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:21 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Are Tattoos Proof of a Nazi Genocide?

No. The Nazi program of mass murder is supported by other evidence, and lots of it. What the tattoos prove is that someone was a victim of that program.

I hope that clears up your confusion.
Actually the tattoos argue against extermination. Why tattoo if you are immediately going to kill them?
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:34 PM   #34
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This brings us into that "valuable blue collar labor" that the Nazis couldn't have got from any other group.
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:39 PM   #35
Thunder
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
Actually the tattoos argue against extermination. Why tattoo if you are immediately going to kill them?
so you can keep track of your slave labor......as u starve them to death...or eventually decide to shoot or gas them.
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Old 1st February 2010, 06:42 PM   #36
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
Actually the tattoos argue against extermination. Why tattoo if you are immediately going to kill them?
They didn't tattoo the people being executed. The NSDAP's policy was to tattoo workers including Soviet POW, Hiwis and other prisoners for administration purposes.
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Old 1st February 2010, 07:05 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Budly View Post
This brings us into that "valuable blue collar labor" that the Nazis couldn't have got from any other group.
Wow! Someone once told me about Holocaust Deniers but I though it was just a joke. Really! I wondered how people could be that ignorant with all the evidence available to them. You know..all that physical evidence, testimony, war criminal trials, etc, etc, etc. Everywhere you turn, you see the evidence of all the stories about the Holocaust staring you in the face.

Nah, I'm not going to fall for it. I don't believe there are such ignorant people in the world. How do I know you're as ignorant as you pretend to be? I think it's all a hoax.
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Old 1st February 2010, 07:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Prestige wrote:
Wouldn't a victim of an extermination program be dead? And not someone alive with a tattoo?
-------------------------------
TSR wrote
Wouldn't a victim be someone killed in a camp as part of the holocaust?
-------------------------------
Slimething wrote
No but given the fact she's alive, wouldn't that mean that her tattoo is in fact not proof of a plan to murder Jews?
Are you for real, and, if so, why?
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Old 1st February 2010, 08:31 PM   #39
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I'm for real, but for real nefarious purposes, just like what they said about atheists in the 1400's.
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Old 1st February 2010, 08:39 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
When dealing with the alleged "holocaust"
There's nothing "alleged" about something that has been proven beyond a doubt. Even the most prominent deniers don't deny that something happened that is commonly called the Holocaust.

And...
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