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View Poll Results: If WAC tried to set up affiliated college clubs, how much success would they have?
Great Success - hundreds of new chapters 2 4.65%
Modest Success - about 40 new chapters 1 2.33%
Very Modest Success - 5 - 10 new chapters 4 9.30%
A Flop - 1 or 2 new chapters, at best 36 83.72%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 7th February 2010, 09:56 AM   #1
metamars
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If WAC sets up college branches and a fraternity, will they succeed

I posted a blog, quoted below, at 911blogger. (Not sure whether it will get front-paged or not.)

The question for JREF is not whether this should be done or not (the scope of those answers is completely predictable, and thus not too interesting)

No, the question is: What degree of success would WAC meet with?


Quote:
Americans are woefully ignorant of False Flag operations, they are continually misled by corporatist candidates of both the Democratic and Republican brands, and their future is being continuously robbed from them. Meanwhile, young people are being saddled with $100,000 college education expenses (a scandal in and of itself, IMO) and then being thrust into a economy wreaking of a 'jobless recovery'.

Well, who ya gonna call? Ghost Busters? Nah - that was just a movie. :-) .

Perhaps the Republican or Democrat clubs that one finds on campuses will foster truth-telling about what horrors their namesake's have wrought?

Nope - ain't gonna happen.

I THINK THIS IS A JOB FOR WE ARE CHANGE.

Such thoughts have been percolating in my mind for a while, but a recent comment here at 911blogger made things gel in my mind. zombie bill hicks wrote:

Quote:
Cindy Sheehan and Dr Dahlia Wasfi
will be speaking at the Treason In America conference in Valley Forge, PA, March 6-7.

Some people in the 9/11 truth movement have really been working hard recently to help bridge the gap to the anti-war movement.

If you dont know, now you know-- get there if you can, and bring someone whos not in the choir.

www.treasoninamericaconference.com
to which I replied,

Quote:
Too bad WE ARE CHANGE doesn't have a college affiliation program
Imagine if We Are Change helped start chapters in colleges across the US. ( In fact, why don't they start a fraternity - they've already got 3 letters!! :-) )

Were such a collections of WAC student clubs or fraternities already in place, they could have had presentations of live video from the Treason in America conference fed into rooms they had set up in colleges across the country. Net result: exposure to the Treason in America presentations could have increased 1,000-fold.

As I've recently written, I think We Are Change is the best thing to come out of the 9/11 Truth movement, so far. Still, they could push the basic idea a LOT further.
Well, We Are Change members, what do you have to say?
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:01 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
If WAC sets up college branches and a fraternity, will they succeed
Succeed in what? Getting more people to do basically nothing? Honestly.
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:02 AM   #3
metamars
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Succeed in what? Getting more people to do basically nothing? Honestly.
I define success as the number of new chapters at colleges. You answered too quick, before the poll was posted....
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:07 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
I define success as the number of new chapters at colleges. You answered too quick, before the poll was posted....
WAC stand on 911 issues is purely delusional. The goal of college is education, the goal of WAC is to be stupid; only idiots will join WAC to support 911 idiotic lies and moronic delusions. There are some in college who fail to gain knowledge and learn, they could be fooled by the idiots in WAC.
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:10 AM   #5
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This poll is unanswerable. The number of chapters is a really poor metric. You could have 100 new chapters with 2 members each, and that would be a flop.
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
I define success as the number of new chapters at colleges. You answered too quick, before the poll was posted....
I understand it's a numbers game to them. Why don't they combine the efforts of maybe a dating service. Their numbers are meaningless if they have no real direction (which they don't)
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:14 AM   #7
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Is this a joke? Everyone knows that 911 Truth is the most important issue of our time. People everywhere are talking about it. It divides friends, colleagues and families. Since you already know there are ohhhhhh so many professional whatevers out there protesting 911 Truth, why would you even bother asking? Just hook up with all those bazillions of architects and engineers and lawyers and doctors and ghostbusters already protesting 911 Truth.

We Are Change are retards. But you can do and say whatever you want. Try it. Sweep the nation. go find out how many people really care about 911 Truth and that other stupid stuff WAC believes. Be a hero. take a chance. Be the man of the hour. Change tomorrow. Live the life. Be a monkey. Be a mouse. You can do it - you and we Are Change.
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:15 AM   #8
metamars
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
This poll is unanswerable. The number of chapters is a really poor metric. You could have 100 new chapters with 2 members each, and that would be a flop.
I have defined success a definite way, whether or not anybody likes my definition. We are limited as to how much text we can put into the title. Otherwise, I'd be happy to add "defined by number of new chapters".
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:22 AM   #9
metamars
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
Is this a joke? Everyone knows that 911 Truth is the most important issue of our time. People everywhere are talking about it. It divides friends, colleagues and families. Since you already know there are ohhhhhh so many professional whatevers out there protesting 911 Truth, why would you even bother asking? Just hook up with all those bazillions of architects and engineers and lawyers and doctors and ghostbusters already protesting 911 Truth.

We Are Change are retards. But you can do and say whatever you want. Try it. Sweep the nation. go find out how many people really care about 911 Truth and that other stupid stuff WAC believes. Be a hero. take a chance. Be the man of the hour. Change tomorrow. Live the life. Be a monkey. Be a mouse. You can do it - you and we Are Change.
I certainly hope that WAC broadens their educational reach, both in terms of false flag operations, in general, as well as the 'bipartisan' nature of political corruption in the US. While the WAC'ers tend to have an extreme and incorrect view - that the Dem / Repub duopoly is a complete facade - they are not all that far from the truth, in terms of viewing the D's and R's as two wings of a single corporatist/War party.

A good analogy, methinks, for the WAC'ers to take up would be that the Dems and Repubs are like two crime families, who both make a killing off of illegal drugs and prostitution, and thus have a lot of motivation to cooperate in doing shady things and keeping the same sorts of activities hidden from the public. However, they are also competitors for the same market - a market consisting of a) voters and b) coporations campaign cash, so that they can all the more readily bamboozle the voters every 2 years.
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:24 AM   #10
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Let's look at this:

Quote:
Americans are woefully ignorant of False Flag operations, they are continually misled by corporatist candidates of both the Democratic and Republican brands, and their future is being continuously robbed from them. Meanwhile, young people are being saddled with $100,000 college education expenses (a scandal in and of itself, IMO) and then being thrust into a economy wreaking of a 'jobless recovery'.

Well, who ya gonna call? Ghost Busters? Nah - that was just a movie. :-) .

Perhaps the Republican or Democrat clubs that one finds on campuses will foster truth-telling about what horrors their namesake's have wrought?

Nope - ain't gonna happen.

I THINK THIS IS A JOB FOR WE ARE CHANGE.
What is WAC proposing to do about this? So far they have done nothing but complain that something needs to be done (without showing any proof that what they believe is true).

Intelligent people see right through these games.

Does WAC have a plan?
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:30 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
I certainly hope that WAC broadens their educational reach, both in terms of false flag operations, in general, as well as the 'bipartisan' nature of political corruption in the US. While the WAC'ers tend to have an extreme and incorrect view - that the Dem / Repub duopoly is a complete facade - they are not all that far from the truth, in terms of viewing the D's and R's as two wings of a single corporatist/War party.

A good analogy, methinks, for the WAC'ers to take up would be that the Dems and Repubs are like two crime families, who both make a killing off of illegal drugs and prostitution, and thus have a lot of motivation to cooperate in doing shady things and keeping the same sorts of activities hidden from the public. However, they are also competitors for the same market - a market consisting of a) voters and b) coporations campaign cash, so that they can all the more readily bamboozle the voters every 2 years.
Like I said, be a monkey, be a horse. Take We Are Change to the people. See what they have to say that they haven't said already. We Are Change are a bunch of working-class high school kids. That's why this stuff seems cool and neat to them. Why don't you try setting up a WAC chapter in some of the radical mosques around the USA. They're probably very receptive.
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:31 AM   #12
metamars
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Let's look at this:



What is WAC proposing to do about this? So far they have done nothing but complain that something needs to be done (without showing any proof that what they believe is true).

Intelligent people see right through these games.

Does WAC have a plan?
Not that I know of. I'm hoping they develop such a plan.
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:34 AM   #13
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Join the WAC fraternity and prove Americans are dumbed down gullible nut case conspiracy theorist, paranoid and stupid. What will be the goal, find the dumbest ideas on 911 and make posters exposing their idiotic ideas to others? The don't think for yourself club of delusions on 911. What a great idea, expose college students to pure stupid so they can see it up close; good contrast.

Those that join can get repetitive failure out of their system, quit and go on to reality based goals. It also is a good discriminator if stupid does win a few dolts, these poor fools will be easy to weed out of the employment ranks.

What fraternity are you in? "WAC" Cool, we were looking for intelligent applicants not non-thinking drones; sorry.

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Old 7th February 2010, 10:37 AM   #14
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For some context (or confusion ): The wearechange.org website says that they have 200 chapters. Their map shows nowhere near 200 locations, though.

Consequently, I'm not sure how many chapters they actually have!
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:41 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Not that I know of. I'm hoping they develop such a plan.
What college did you go to? You could start there.
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
I define success as the number of new chapters at colleges. You answered too quick, before the poll was posted....
Whatever it is, it will be the same people on campus that already demand a new investigation, etc. There will be no additional people brought to your silly clubhouse.

As for "fraternities", it will be zero because there are regulations associated with the frats and either the Twoofers won't or can't actually do anything to meet the requirements.

A campus club is more appropriate. There might even be some funds from the student activity money pool to cover the burning of CDs and the purchase of "Investigate 9/11" banners.

(It's been 40 years. Are there still funds for student clubs?)
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Old 7th February 2010, 11:14 AM   #17
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Why would WAC want to establish itself on college campuses when all the truthers I've met (about 5 of them - 4 in the USA) think that schools and colleges are brainwashing farms dedicated to programming the next generation of wage slaves?

I guess when you pilfer your worldviews from high-concept Hollywood sci-fi movies and minority internet radio shows (presented by ego maniacs in love with the sound of their own voices) it makes you more intelligent than college graduates.

I live in the UK and I've only seen one person (about 3 years ago) that was handing out DVD's in the street. I was sat in a café watching him for 30 or 40 minutes and not one person took a DVD from him or engaged him in conversation. He was ignored by everyone.

What makes WAC so confident that college students more interested in casual sex, drugs and music (was that just my university days?) want to waste their time on the 911 canard?

911 Truth - the revolution no-one is talking about!!

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Old 7th February 2010, 11:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Not that I know of. I'm hoping they develop such a plan.

Hoping something will happen instead of making something happen is exactly why 9/11 CTists get nowhere with any of their grand fantasies.
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Old 7th February 2010, 11:24 AM   #19
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Worldwide WAC has not been able to raise more than $485 for first responders. I think the most insignificant fraternity in the smallest university in the smallest state sets aside more than that in their kegger budget for a semester. AND THEY AINT EVEN SUPPOSED TO DRINK!!. And you want to accomplish what metamars? You wont get enough participants to assemble a trio of angry young boys to shout out at a commencement address. You had nine years Metamars. You fell flat on your ass and accomplished zero. I am here to laugh in your face at your failures.
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Old 7th February 2010, 11:30 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Not that I know of. I'm hoping they develop such a plan.
So the plan (so far) is to get as many people together as possible to sit around and hope some day they'll have a plan to do something?

I truly hope you see something wrong with this plan.

WAC, is a group that complains about made up fantasies (ask them to prove....well anything) as to take their minds off the real challenges (issues) in life. Do you really want to be connected to a group like this?
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Old 7th February 2010, 12:08 PM   #21
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9/11 conspiracy theories are based on ignorance and poor thinking skills, there is no place for that in higher education.

What you should do, but won't, is engage the engineering departments in colleges and universities with the laughable theories by the 9/11 morons and see what they say. But like I said, they won't.
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Old 7th February 2010, 12:10 PM   #22
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The problem is that they would be trying to recruit from an educated population.

The Fail Boat has landed.
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Old 7th February 2010, 01:21 PM   #23
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Gee, a truther defines great success as less than ten percent of accredited four year universities. Funny, I would call that a dismal failure.

But what do I know, I think it is insane that someone would suggest that you could make a blast furnace out of a couple of centimeters of fireproofing.
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Old 7th February 2010, 01:52 PM   #24
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What I've seen of WAC over the years leads me to conclude they'll always fail if they continue down the course they've set. If WAC wants to style themselves as an anti-war organization for political reform, then they should practice what they preach:

Change.

Seriously, the first thing WAC should do is reject 9/11 truth entirely. Anyone with even a casual interests knows that what remains of the truth movement is a loose collection of anti-Semites and other head cases who aren't smart enough to know the case for an inside job never even came close getting wet, let alone holding water. Stop promoting handjobs like Griffin, Gage and the Jones'. They are failures who are keeping your organization tethered to the ground like a gigantic cinder block of stupid.
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Old 7th February 2010, 02:03 PM   #25
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Gage gave AE911 presentations on a couple campuses. ISTM that if he was well received he would have done lots more.

I predict your idea will go nowhere for many reasons.
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Old 7th February 2010, 02:05 PM   #26
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I'd like to know why Metamars keeps asking questions like this.
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Old 7th February 2010, 02:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Edx View Post
I'd like to know why Metamars keeps asking questions like this.
I think he's trying to find ways to drum up support (and justify his belief) but he's ignoring the reason he has no support in the first place.

The first is pointless unless you understand the second, in my opinion.
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Old 7th February 2010, 05:03 PM   #28
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Why was there no poll option for "Zero, it will never happen"? Given that WAC haven't ever achieved anything in the years they have been active, why would something like this be any different?
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Old 7th February 2010, 07:36 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
For some context (or confusion ): The wearechange.org website says that they have 200 chapters. Their map shows nowhere near 200 locations, though.

Consequently, I'm not sure how many chapters they actually have!
I'm becoming confused about what this post is supposed to be about. Is it an attempt to show us how ingenious and active WAC really is? If that's the case, it's been very impressive so far.

WAC has many chapters all over the world. Almost all of these chapters have almost no real members, The Facebook accounts of these places list hundreds of members, but almost all of them are the same people who have joined many, many different groups. There are about 100 active members of WAC in the USA nationally and perhaps another fifty in the rest of the world.

Let's face it Dude, if you had any ability to do the things you're talking about here, you wouldn't be talking with us. You'd just be doing it. And that's the story of the 911 Truth Movement and its allied organizations.

Like I said, start recruiting from radical mosques in Britain and the USA. Does the idea bother you? Would that make you racists?
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Old 7th February 2010, 07:58 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Edx View Post
I'd like to know why Metamars keeps asking questions like this.
So do I. He seems to have a bizarre fixation with "false flags" without even a rudimentary understanding of military science. At least this poll was more successful than his last poll, ths 5 vote "hit piece."

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Old 7th February 2010, 08:12 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel View Post
So do I. He seems to have a bizarre fixation with "false flags" without even a rudimentary understanding of military science. At least this poll was more successful than his last poll, ths 5 vote "hit piece."
Part of the problem is that WAC is composed almost exclusively of working-class high school kids. Talking with them about how to promote their agenda is a waste of time. Far less than 10% of them nationally would have ever attended post-secondary education, so how could you ask them about setting up groups on a university campsus?

Besides, Metamars is probably a college student somewhere, maybe in first- or second-year. Inside their group, he or she has no one to talk to and even if they were willing to talk, they have no perspective to talk about anything. That's why he or she comes here.

WAC is a group without a guiding ideology. All they are a gang of people who joined a Facebook group.
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Old 7th February 2010, 08:16 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
WAC is a group without a guiding ideology. All they are a gang of people who joined a Facebook group.
wrong. WAC's guiding ideology is "America bad".
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Old 7th February 2010, 08:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
wrong. WAC's guiding ideology is "America bad".
Funny thing is when you talk to people listed on WAC Facebook groups about stuff other than WAC and 911 Truth, they're very normal people. They don't act like they think the government murders people. In fact, you can talk to them about how much freedom there is in the USA and the typical sort of stuff we believe about the USA, and they don't even seem to notice. They do not act like committed political activists.
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Old 7th February 2010, 08:58 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
Funny thing is when you talk to people listed on WAC Facebook groups about stuff other than WAC and 911 Truth, they're very normal people.
r u actually seeking out these people, for communication?

why on Earth..would you do such a thing???

if you need someone to talk to, send me a PM. I'll talk to you.

but please, save yourself some brain cells. don't look for Truthers to converse with.
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Old 7th February 2010, 09:33 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
r u actually seeking out these people, for communication?

why on Earth..would you do such a thing???

if you need someone to talk to, send me a PM. I'll talk to you.

but please, save yourself some brain cells. don't look for Truthers to converse with.
Sure I am. I know many of them personally now. Why not? I've lived overseas for a long time. Quite honestly, I was shocked to find that anyone could believe anything like this and wanted to find out what kind of people they could be. That's why I joined this forum initially.

It may seem silly to you that I would want to meet Truthers and find out about the structure of their organizations. It seems almost as silly to me that scientists and engineers would spend as much time as Ace Baker spends on his videos making their own responses to thermite and Death Star explanations of 911. It's just a way to spend the minutes of your life before you die. I write a lot of stuff. I may write something about this some time.

Does that make sense? Or at least as much sense as a NASA researcher responding to Judy Wood?
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Old 7th February 2010, 10:36 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
Hoping something will happen instead of making something happen is exactly why 9/11 CTists get nowhere with any of their grand fantasies.
I keep pointing this out to metamars, and he/she keeps asking "meta" questions back about some grandiose something-or-other. I really don't get it. If these knuckleheads don't want to do anything at all, why do they care what I think about their inaction? The whole movement disappears when I shut the laptop down, so who cares? Do what you will, invisible cult!
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Old 7th February 2010, 11:25 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
Like I said, start recruiting from radical mosques in Britain and the USA. Does the idea bother you? Would that make you racists?
Why radical mosques? While the terms "radical" and "extremists" are often tossed around loosely, in some cases, the label fits.

If a "radical" mosque is one that preaches violence against innocents for religio-political reasons is OK, why would I want to have anything to do with it?
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Old 7th February 2010, 11:31 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Does WAC have a plan?

No. metamars' schtick seems to be all about proposing that other people carry out the ideas that he comes up with to further his own political agenda, but he never actually proposes doing anything about his ideas himself.

Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Not that I know of. I'm hoping they develop such a plan.

See?

ETA: He's been called on his BS ideas before, but his answer is always that someone else should do something in support of his ideas while he offers up nothing but excuses for why he won't/can't do anything in support of his own ideas. It's just stupid.

Last edited by LashL; 7th February 2010 at 11:59 PM. Reason: See ETA
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Old 7th February 2010, 11:52 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
Part of the problem is that WAC is composed almost exclusively of working-class high school kids.
I went to a WAC meeting in Manhattan, and most attendees, while young, certainly looked too old to be in high school.

Quote:
Talking with them about how to promote their agenda is a waste of time. Far less than 10% of them nationally would have ever attended post-secondary education, so how could you ask them about setting up groups on a university campsus?
I have trouble taking you seriously. College attendance by high school graduates in the US is over 30%. So, if they're predominantly still in high school, as you claim, we need only wait 1-3 years and perhaps 30% will then be in college. They can start WAC groups in their own college, from the comfort of their own campus. If you claim that WAC groups must be comprised overwhelmingly of high school students, then explain why such is not the case in Manhattan.

Quote:
Besides, Metamars is probably a college student somewhere, maybe in first- or second-year.
Ha, ha, ha. Your guess is so far off, it's funny. It'd be nice to be that young, again. I could then do my 'patented' 'explosion jump shot', as well as my 'patented' 'scissors kick jump shot'. God, do I miss jumping over rim height with frequency and ease, not to mention my general explosiveness and stamina.

Quote:
WAC is a group without a guiding ideology.
Research done on "millennials" shows that a lack of ideology, and a preference for practical solutions. Sorry, I'm not willing to dig up links for you.

I think on some forums you would be labeled a "concern troll".

Quote:
All they are a gang of people who joined a Facebook group.
This is a lie. Probably, most JREF debunkers that know anything about WAC know this to be a lie.

However, I'll humor you and pretend that it's true, for the sake of argument. In this case, they would have no reason to create chapters at colleges, except for propaganda purposes.

Well, I'm not interested in giving suggestions for WAC to put propagandistic feathers in their cap. Instead, I want them to more efficiently teach about "deep politics" type of stuff, on the one hand, and on the other, I'd like them to help bring about democratic reform. Right now, they are on a political dead end, which many will realize (I hope), as they mature.

Nevertheless, they have good intentions and good 'activist energy'. Good ideas on how to fix a systemically corrupted political system are few and far between (inside or outside the 911 Truth movement), but I believe that they will be coming to the fore. Hopefully, as societal forces demanding a more honest democracy ripen (which requires not looking at things through a partisan or too-ideological lens), WAC will have matured enough to play a part in a democratic renaissance.
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Old 8th February 2010, 12:18 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
No. metamars' schtick seems to be all about proposing that other people carry out the ideas that he comes up with to further his own political agenda, but he never actually proposes doing anything about his ideas himself.
I'm an idea factory, and couldn't possibly work on all the ideas that I come up with. Also, some very good ideas (even if simple, at their core), thought up by others, get considerable time and energy from me - including recently. I'm not the only outside-the-box person on planet earth, and I'm not the only person with a social conscience.

And most fortunately, I'm not the only person who combines a social conscience with outside-the-box creativity. I have no problem submerging my ego in efforts to work on other people's ideas, when they are better than mine and/or more timely. (I might have had a problem if they were not creative enough, but that is another matter.) And that indeed has been the case for the last few months.

Furthermore, if I did have a problem submerging my ego, I would take steps to 'crucify' my overlarge ego. And that's because, as a young man, I was told that "When your purpose is important, you are never important." I was told that, and believed it my heart and mind.

Since you saw fit to speculate on my "schtick", why don't you reciprocate and tell us about your "schtick"? Does it bother you when the US government kills innocents in pursuit of it's imperialistic foreign policy? The US invasion of Iraq resulted in millions of displaced persons. Many ended up in Syria, and the NY Times reported that desperate Iraqi women allowed themselves to be prostituted, so that they could feed their families.

The US can lie it's way into a war which creates so much misery, and claim that it's doing so for good reasons, but where is the compassion for the victims of our warfare?

This tendency to do evil, while claiming to do good, takes on Luciferian proportions when you consider our military's love affair with depleted uranium. The birth defects that we inflicted on Iraqis via spewing depleted uranium throughout their country are hideous. And for sure, it's affected the children of our soldiers, though thankfully not as hideously. I saw one picture of an American soldier's boy whose arms were half the length that they should have been.

Things like that bother me, and, like lots of other 911 Truthers, I consider myself part of a peace movement.

But what about you, LashL? What about your "schtick"?
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