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Old 8th February 2010, 07:48 AM   #1
Saggy
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The Treblinka Zoo

I just came across this website featuring pictures of the zoo at Treblinka, let's insert a sample here ....

As a new poster I can't insert a pic, so ... to see pictures of the zoo google treblinka zoo and the first hit will give the link.

It's really quite remarkable that with a staff of 20 or so Germans and Austrians, and 100 or so 'camp guards', the Nazis at Treblinka were able to murder, and bury, 20,000(*1) or so Jews a day, and then, in a real flurry of activity dig up, bury, and burn 500,000 in a period of four months, and still have time to build a zoo !

A review of the deathcamps site will even produce a picture of the 'gas chamber' at Treblinka. It was the scene of horrorific crimes. One of the most respected and cited holohoax witnesses, Yankel Wiernik, recounts that he often had his ears nailed to the wall(*2) ! ....

Fortunately, the man who nailed Yankel's ears was found after the war, extradited to Israel, put on trial, identified by five eyewitnesses, convicted and sentenced to death. Unfortunately, the man put on trial had never set foot in Treblinka. Google John Demjanjuk for more info on the case.

The Nazis were a nasty lot, that's for sure, as Wiernik recounts ...

"The Germans stood around with satanic smiles on their faces, radiating satisfaction over their foul deeds. They drank toasts with choice liquors, ate, caroused, and enjoyed themselves around the warm fire. Thus, even after death the Jew was of some use ... the heat came from the burning bodies of Jews. The German fiends stood warming themselves, drinking, eating and singing."(*3)

But, all was not sturm and drang .... as there was the occasional rum and sausage .... Wiernik again ....

"However 'freedom or death' was our motto. In the meantime I completed the construction of the blockhouse. To celebrate the occasion, the 'Hauptsturmfuehrer' treated us to rum and sausage."(*4)



*1 - Yankel Wiernik. 'A Year in Treblinka', "The number of transports grew daily, and there were times when as many as 20,000 people were gassed in in one day."

*2 - ibid. - "One of them, Ivan, was tall, had and gentle eyes, but was, nevertheless, a sadist. He often attacked us while we worked and nailed our ears to the wall"

*3 - ibid.

*4 - ibid.
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Old 8th February 2010, 08:00 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
holohoax
Hoax?

When are these hoaxers going to come out of hiding?
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Old 8th February 2010, 08:20 AM   #3
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Oh, goody. 9/11-investigator has a new playmate. They even say the same things!

Perhaps a mod could merge this with "9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust"?
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Old 8th February 2010, 08:42 AM   #4
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Perhaps one of you would like to post a pic of the zoo. It's really quite charming. I was surprised to find pics of Treblinka taken during the war.
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Old 8th February 2010, 08:46 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Perhaps one of you would like to post a pic of the zoo. It's really quite charming.
Sure.

http://www.deathcamps.org/Treblinka/zoo.html
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Old 8th February 2010, 08:50 AM   #6
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Wiernik is one of the most often cited sources of the world's most respected holohoax historian, Raul Hilberg. Still, do you think he really had his ears nailed to the wall?

Another odd thing is that while the Nazis were exterminating the other Jews just as fast as they could, they put Wiernik in the camp hospital when he became ill ....

"About that time I caught a cold and fell ill with pneumonia... Accordingly they gave me what medical care and attention was feasible. A Jewish physician attended me, examined me every day, administered medications, and consoled me. My German superior, Lefler, brought me food: white bread, butter, cream."(*1)

Even more remarkable is that the end of the war found the three other most famous holohoax liars, Elie Wiesel, Otto Frank, and Primo Levi, all in the camp hospital at Auschwitz. The Nazis, ever orderly and efficient, just hated to gas a sick Jew I suppose. What is your explanation?

*1 - ibid.

Last edited by Saggy; 8th February 2010 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 8th February 2010, 08:51 AM   #7
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NSFW


Charming enough for you?
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Old 8th February 2010, 08:55 AM   #8
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One might wonder where the Nazis obtained the fuel used to incinerate the 500,000 freshly dug up bodies. A review of the literature reveals that it is necessary to subject a body to 2000 deg. F for about 2 hours to cremate it, and this normally requires a substantial amount of fuel.

Fortunately for the Nazis, the laws of physics were suspended during the holohoax, and no fuel at all was required to burn the bodies, and so we have from Wiernik ...

"It turned out that women burned easier than men. Accordingly, corpses of women were used as kindling for the fires."(*1)

No wonder Wiernik is such an important source. This kind of thing doesn't happen everyday, and we are fortunate to have such a reliable witness. At least Raul Hilberg, the world's most respected holohoax historian, found Wiernik reliable.

*1 - ibid.

Last edited by Saggy; 8th February 2010 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:01 AM   #9
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Do you know you're talking rubbish and simply hatefull enough that you don't care so long as it offends people and defames the victims of the holocaust or is there any hope that countering these lies will bring you round to the side or reason?
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
Do you know you're talking rubbish and simply hatefull enough that you don't care so long as it offends people and defames the victims of the holocaust or is there any hope that countering these lies will bring you round to the side or reason?
The victims of the holohoax? That would be first the Nazis and the German people generally. There has never been such a monstrous and degenerate slander in the history of the world. Then the next in line would be the Palestinians, who have been murdered and driven from their country, and this slaughter has been supported by the rest of the world to atone for the holohoax. Then we have the endless trillions poured into Israel as reparations for events that did not happen.

Truthfully, I'm less concerned about the victims of the holohoax listed above then the victims yet to suffer, and that may be all of us. Even now we're engaged, bombared every day with insane propaganda, about a 'war' with Islam. All because of the holohoax and Israel.

Yes, the holohoax has a long list of victims. It can get a lot longer, I hope it doesn't
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:15 AM   #11
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Just one way traffic with you then. Fine.
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:17 AM   #12
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More from Wiernik, remember he is one of the most respected holohoax 'eyewitnesses', and was frequently cited by the most famous holohoax historian Raul Hilberg ....

"A German named Zopf was a vile a savage beast, who took special delight in abusing children. When he pushed women around and they begged him to desist because of the children, he frequently snatched a child out of a woman's arms and tore it in half." (*1)

*1 - ibid.
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:17 AM   #13
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Just out of interest, how many people charged with crimes connected with the Holocaust used a defence based on 'the Holocaust never happened' at their trial?
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:26 AM   #14
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Even more from Wiernik .....

"It was our lot to carry the corpses to the grave. We were dead tired from working all day on the construction job."(*1)

Remember, 10,000 to 20,000 corpses a day killed, and buried.

This 'testimony' is obviously phantasmagoria, and nothing more. You don't have to know any history at all to know that this is nothing but BS.

Here is the point - the quickest way to become a holohoax denier is to ACTUALLY READ some of the bulls**t testimony on which the hoax is built. Get Wiernik's book from a library. Read it.

*1 - ibid.

Last edited by Saggy; 8th February 2010 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:46 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by garethdjb View Post
Just out of interest, how many people charged with crimes connected with the Holocaust used a defence based on 'the Holocaust never happened' at their trial?
It's not really an option. Zundel was arrested and jailed for saying that it didn't happen, and his lawyer was also jailed for saying or implying the same thing at his trial !

Going back, at Nuremberg only one defendant, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, was charged with having any direct connection with the killing of Jews. He testified that the learned of the holohoax from the allied press and radio. I will post a link to his testimony if I get to 15 posts in this thread. All of the hoax testimony regarding the holohoax was read into the record at Nuremberg unchallenged, one reason being that it did not affect any of the defendants. Since that time it has been an adjudicated fact that cannot be challenged in court (or some such nonsense, I'm not up on the details).
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Old 8th February 2010, 09:54 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
It's not really an option. Zundel was arrested and jailed for saying that it didn't happen
Zundel was arrested for violating immigration laws and publishing antisemitic works.
No one will stop you from saying that the Holocaust never happened, but they will stop you if you try and use your conspiracy theories to incite hatred against an ethnic group.
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Old 8th February 2010, 10:06 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Going back, at Nuremberg only one defendant, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, was charged with having any direct connection with the killing of Jews.
Errr no - here is the final judgment on Herman Goering

There is nothing to be said in mitigation. For Goering was often, indeed almost always, the moving force, second only to his leader. He was the leading war aggressor, both as political and as military leader; he was the director of the slave labor program and the creator of the oppressive program against the Jews and other races, at home and abroad. All of these crimes he has frankly admitted. On some specific cases there may be conflict of testimony, but in terms of the broad outline, his own admissions are more than sufficiently wide to be conclusive of his guilt. His guilt is unique in its enormity. The record discloses no excuses for this man
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Old 8th February 2010, 10:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Another odd thing is that while the Nazis were exterminating the other Jews just as fast as they could, they put Wiernik in the camp hospital when he became ill ....

"About that time I caught a cold and fell ill with pneumonia...
The full quote;
"About that time I caught a cold, which developed into pneumonia. All the sick were being killed either by shooting or by injections, but it seems that they needed me."

Seems like Wiernik was a bit surprised too...

Your point is?

Or maybe you find it strange we have no testimony of those who were killed to confirm that most people that were ill were indeed murdered?


And , oh yes, the Zoo at Treblinka, the swimming pool at Auschwitz, it all makes no sense does it?
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Old 8th February 2010, 10:41 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Pure_Argent View Post
to incite hatred
Incite hatred? The Zionists are so anxious to throw anyone who questions the obvious lies of the hoax into jail that they have come up with the idiotic phrase 'to incite hatred'. You can't 'incite' hatred, it is a Orwellian phrase designed to make political speech a crime.

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent View Post
No one will stop you from saying that the Holocaust never happened,
Good grief. What is the response to such idiocy?

Last edited by Saggy; 8th February 2010 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 8th February 2010, 10:46 AM   #20
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One might wonder where the Nazis obtained the fuel used to incinerate the 500,000 freshly dug up bodies. A review of the literature reveals that it is necessary to subject a body to 2000 deg. F for about 2 hours to cremate it, and this normally requires a substantial amount of fuel.
Human bodies burn very nicely all by themselves, don't they? We have seen this with testing regarding the supposed phenomenon of spontaneous human combustion. So why would one need much fuel?
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Old 8th February 2010, 10:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
It's not really an option. Zundel was arrested and jailed for saying that it didn't happen, and his lawyer was also jailed for saying or implying the same thing at his trial !
So you're saying that of all the trials involving crimes committed during the Holocaust not one person used the 'it never happened' defence? That does seem strange. . .
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Old 8th February 2010, 10:55 AM   #22
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God, another one.
For some reason, over the past few months we have has a big increase in the number of Holocaust Deniers and other Anti Semites who are posting here. It's getting harder to avoid their drivel....
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Old 8th February 2010, 10:56 AM   #23
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Saggy have you tried objecting to Isreal without denying the holocaust? Do you understand that this easily dismissed fantasy of yours is in no way a pre-requisite for criticising the state of Isreal or even for hating Jews?
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Old 8th February 2010, 11:30 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
Saggy have you tried objecting to Isreal without denying the holocaust? Do you understand that this easily dismissed fantasy of yours is in no way a pre-requisite for criticising the state of Isreal or even for hating Jews?
Of course. I got interested in the holohoax only after the brouhaha following Lieberman's demolition of Gore's presidential campaign. I just chanced on an online debate where one wag posted that the sign at Auschwitz had been changed, and the count of victims reduced from 4 million to 1.5 million, in the 1980s ! Of course that was followed by the usual chants of anti-semite, Nazi, etc. So, as it was simply a matter of fact, was the sign changed or not, I decided to check it out.

The problem with criticizing Israel without addressing the holohoax is that the hoax is the Zionists ultimate weapon, always and invariably used to justify their acts to the rest of the world, and to extort unlimited funds.

And, the hoax is the key to Zionism. You have to understand it to understand how dishonest the Zionists are.

That it why they defend it so vociferously. You will be arrested in many parts of Europe, in Canada, and in Australia, for saying it's a hoax. And in online debate there is a dedicated cadre of Zionists that will use every method to stop discussion online. So, any attempt to discuss the history of the war, or of the hoax, is met with instantaneous name calling, insult, etc. The objective is to make the discussion an exchange of insults. Thereby the Zionists win.

And, of course, the ADL has been working very hard to get laws passed in the US to prosecute the 'incitement of hate'. Thusfar the First Amendment, and a few retrograde southern Republicans, has thwarted them. Now with O in the White House, they are hoping for success and have recently passed a strengthening of the 'hate crimes' law that had been blocked.

Last edited by Saggy; 8th February 2010 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 8th February 2010, 11:30 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
God, another one.
For some reason, over the past few months we have has a big increase in the number of Holocaust Deniers and other Anti Semites who are posting here. It's getting harder to avoid their drivel....
Google loves the JREF it seems. Therefore reality deniers like Saggy come here to share their peculiar form of nazi groupiedom.
And saggy's theories are really saggy, limp as a limpet without a shell.
Saggy, if you start with cherrypicking quotes it can only go downhill. And insulting people like Raul Hillberg, who you probably haven't even read except in the regurgitated version of the usual suspects, is rather disingenous.
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Old 8th February 2010, 11:53 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Incite hatred? The Zionists are so anxious to throw anyone who questions the obvious lies of the hoax into jail that they have come up with the idiotic phrase 'to incite hatred'. You can't 'incite' hatred, it is a Orwellian phrase designed to make political speech a crime.
Tell that to the Klan.

Quote:
Good grief. What is the response to such idiocy?
Perhaps to admit its truth. Over here in the US, we have a little thing called freedom of speech. It means that you can say whatever you want to (except when it crosses the line into "inciting hatred"), even if it's mind-numbingly stupid.
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Old 8th February 2010, 12:06 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Of course. I got interested in the holohoax only after the brouhaha following Lieberman's demolition of Gore's presidential campaign.
The presidential campaign where Gore won 20 states plus Washington, DC and carried the popular vote by a margin of 550,000? You might want to look up "demolition" as it does not mean when you think it means...

Never mind, our cadre of dedicated Zionists will be making short work of you, I suspect.
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Old 8th February 2010, 12:46 PM   #28
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This one seems to have escaped from a zoo: chimp section.
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Old 8th February 2010, 12:50 PM   #29
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There seems to be a random bullsh*t generator that Saggy and Budly have purchased.

Last edited by Jonathan Harrison; 8th February 2010 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 8th February 2010, 12:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Of course. I got interested in the holohoax only after the brouhaha following Lieberman's demolition of Gore's presidential campaign. I just chanced on an online debate where one wag posted that the sign at Auschwitz had been changed, and the count of victims reduced from 4 million to 1.5 million, in the 1980s ! Of course that was followed by the usual chants of anti-semite, Nazi, etc. So, as it was simply a matter of fact, was the sign changed or not, I decided to check it out.
As a foreigner I have no idea what brouhaha you're talking about. I may well regret asking this but how did it relate to Zionism?
Quote:
The problem with criticizing Israel without addressing the holohoax is that the hoax is the Zionists ultimate weapon, always and invariably used to justify their acts to the rest of the world, and to extort unlimited funds.
Not really. Sad as it may be but there are other genocides and yet the victims do not get the support that Israel gets. As I understand it being the only stable democracy in the region is the argument put forward most often. This 'pity us' appeal to emotion is actually far less effective rhetoric than you might think. The real politik seems to be that the zionist vote is the swing in a number of key states such as New York.

Quote:
And, the hoax is the key to Zionism. You have to understand it to understand how dishonest the Zionists are.

That it why they defend it so vociferously. You will be arrested in many parts of Europe, in Canada, and in Australia, for saying it's a hoax. And in online debate there is a dedicated cadre of Zionists that will use every method to stop discussion online. So, any attempt to discuss the history of the war, or of the hoax, is met with instantaneous name calling, insult, etc. The objective is to make the discussion an exchange of insults. Thereby the Zionists win
It's hard to feel sympathy for poor persecuted Neo Nazis yet outlawing a specific lie seems superfluous when there are already more general laws on defamation and hate crime.
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Old 8th February 2010, 12:51 PM   #31
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From the above link:
Quote:
Early 1943 the camp commandant ordered to build a zoo besides the Ukrainian barracks. Here the SS men relaxed from their bloody work.
Clearly a facility for the perpetrators, not the inmates, hence an irrelevancy.
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:14 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Harrison View Post
This one seems to have escaped from a zoo: chimp section.
What have you got against Chimps?
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What have you got against Chimps?
in-joke; extremely stupid Holocaust deniers have been called chimps for about five years now elsewhere, and there was a phase when people competed to find the most appropriate chimp pic, much like 'kittening' here.
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Harrison View Post
From the above link:

Clearly a facility for the perpetrators, not the inmates, hence an irrelevancy.
Not to mention, the "zoo" consisted of four foxes.
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:26 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
One might wonder where the Nazis obtained the fuel used to incinerate the 500,000 freshly dug up bodies. A review of the literature reveals that it is necessary to subject a body to 2000 deg. F for about 2 hours to cremate it, and this normally requires a substantial amount of fuel.
1) Provide references to the claim that half a million bodies were cremated.

2) Provide references for your assertion as to how much fuel the cremation would consume.
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:28 PM   #36
Saggy
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Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
As a foreigner I have no idea what brouhaha you're talking about. I may well regret asking this but how did it relate to Zionism?
Lieberman is an orthodox Jew, so his nomination was a bit of a shock. He is also a rabid Zionist. If you know anything about orthodox Jews, you know the idea of having one as VP is .... beyond the pale, so to speak. (I think) an orthodox Jew can't get elected even in Israel.

Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
As I understand it being the only stable democracy in the region is the argument put forward most often.
Like apartheid South Africa was the only stable 'democracy' in Africa. That argument doesn't really play.

Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
It's hard to feel sympathy for poor persecuted Neo Nazis yet outlawing a specific lie seems superfluous when there are already more general laws on defamation and hate crime.
It's not outlawing a lie, it's outlawing the truth. The truth doesn't need the protection of the state. There's a good Jefferson quote to that effect .... "... but I can't find it now. In any case, the holohoax laws are not 'superfluous', the ADL has been working hard for 30 years to get such laws in the US, and they have been very successful getting holohoax laws where there is no First Amendment. If I make 15 posts in this thread I'll give the links to the ADL pages where they grouse about the First Amendment. Google Ireland 1989 prohibition of incitement to hatred to find out how drastic these laws can be.

Last edited by Saggy; 8th February 2010 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:32 PM   #37
Nonpareil
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
It's not outlawing a law, it's outlawing the truth.
Either give reference to legal documents which establish that it is against the law to say that the Holocaust never happened or retract your claim. There is no law which prevents someone from asserting that the Holocaust never happened.
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:35 PM   #38
carlitos
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You may have missed this, as it was in the papers etc.

Lieberman / Gore won the popular vote in the 2000 US presidential election.
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:35 PM   #39
AvalonXQ
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Originally Posted by Pure_Argent View Post
Either give reference to legal documents which establish that it is against the law to say that the Holocaust never happened or retract your claim. There is no law which prevents someone from asserting that the Holocaust never happened.
Specifically, here in the States there is no such law. If you live in Europe YMMV.
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Old 8th February 2010, 01:36 PM   #40
Nick Terry
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
In any case, the holohoax laws are not 'superfluous', the ADL has been working hard for 30 years to get such laws in the US, and they have been very successful getting holohoax laws where there is no First Amendment.
uh, dude, the ADL is an American organisation; contrary to your delusions, it is not active in Europe.
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